What should the anarchists/councilists do in Greece?

[AnarchoMassLineDemarchist]

What tactics should the greek anarchists use to bring about a true workers revolution?

1. Kill those KKE motherfuckers, before they purge the Anarchists, Councilists and the workers who want real change.

2. Run survival programs, take over small factories and shops, run small liberated zones, top show how post anarchist society would look.

3. Destabalise the parlimentary parties, by having demonstrations and riots against right wing, centreist and centre left capitalist parties, show the workers there are no alternatives.

4. Arm the radicalised workers in urban areas, its easy to make a 9mm submachine gun, with metal and piping, munitions can be improvised too, manuals are widely available.

5. sieze upper class neighborhoods, use the properties to house workers, and build more and more liberated zones.

6. Storm and destroy tourist spots and hotels, make the economic freefall hit the government even harder, by denying much needed revenue.

7. Make a final push, take over society and end capitalism.

[RED DAVE]

What tactics should the greek anarchists use to bring about a true workers revolution?

1. Kill those KKE motherfuckers, before they purge the Anarchists, Councilists and the workers who want real change.

2. Run survival programs, take over small factories and shops, run small liberated zones, top show how post anarchist society would look.

3. Destabalise the parlimentary parties, by having demonstrations and riots against right wing, centreist and centre left capitalist parties, show the workers there are no alternatives.

4. Arm the radicalised workers in urban areas, its easy to make a 9mm submachine gun, with metal and piping, munitions can be improvised too, manuals are widely available.

5. sieze upper class neighborhoods, use the properties to house workers, and build more and more liberated zones.

6. Storm and destroy tourist spots and hotels, make the economic freefall hit the government even harder, by denying much needed revenue.

7. Make a final push, take over society and end capitalism.None of the above.

All of them imply a political tendency outside of the working class that has to act to "push" the working class. If these people are not post-adolescent adventurers, they need to immerse themselves in the working class, urge the workers to either take over their organizations, the unions, or build alternative unions and new political organizations to fight against the ruling class strategy in the current crisis and prepare for revolution in concert with workers in other countries.

RED DAVE

[AnarchoMassLineDemarchist]

so if your working class, you cannot run food kitchen or fight pigs.. until everyone else is?

funny how a Trot would accuse a non leninist of being outside the working class.

The only way workers will become revolutionary, is if those workers who are already radicalised, fight with them in everyday battles.

What do you suggest, theorising, and not doing anything for the cause.

Typical leninist aproach.

Lets theorise capitalism away, then we can impose our new, oppresive state on the workers, that sout of the fucking working class.

[thriller]

Red Dave has a point. They should become part of the working class culture and encourage them to become self-sufficient, there by making the workers independent and the government useless. Although I do like number 2, it would be great to see independent zones through out the country pop up.

[RED DAVE]

Okay, you want to mix it. ;)


so if your working class you cannot run food kitchenPlease don't confuse doing charity work with politics.


or fight pigs.. until everyone else is?Not unless you want to engage in individual or small group confrontations with the cops and pretend that its politics.


funny how a Trot would accuse a non leninist of being outside the working class.Political cursing aside, it is extremely dangerous politically to act too far outside the general level of class consciousness and action. It engenders isolation, self-righteousness and accomplishes little or nothing.


The only way workers will become revolutionaryThe only way!


is if those workers who are already radicalised, fight with them in everyday battles.I have no problem with advanced workers joining with less conscious workers in mutual struggle. What I have is the notion that more advanced sectors, groups or individuals can act effectively outside the class.


What do you suggest, theorising, and not doing anything for the cause.i suggest working inside the class and organizing for the taking over of existing working class institutions and preparing for an eventual seizure of power as I said above.


Typical leninist aproach.I should hope so. :D


Lets theorise capitalism awayDefinitely. Revolution is accomplished, as Lenin did, by doing nothing but writing articles and books.


but then we can impose our new, oppresive state on the workers, that sout of the fucking working class.Sincethat's not what the Bolsheviks did, this is some kind of fantasy of yours. Grow up. Get involved. Political cursing is not analysis.

[B]RED DAVE[/B

[Widerstand]

1. Kill those KKE motherfuckers, before they purge the Anarchists, Councilists and the workers who want real change.

You mean like, fucking anarcho-stalinists killing the KKE?


2. Run survival programs, take over small factories and shops, run small liberated zones, top show how post anarchist society would look.

"survival programs"?

"post anarchist society"?

What?



4. Arm the radicalised workers in urban areas, its easy to make a 9mm submachine gun, with metal and piping, munitions can be improvised too, manuals are widely available.

5. sieze upper class neighborhoods, use the properties to house workers, and build more and more liberated zones.

Maybe you are overestimating the resources and support the Greek Anarchists have?


6. Storm and destroy tourist spots and hotels, make the economic freefall hit the government even harder, by denying much needed revenue.

I am fairly sure however that this would alienate them from a lot of service sector workers.


7. Make a final push, take over society and end capitalism.

>end capitalism
>one country

not gonna happen.

[AnarchoMassLineDemarchist]

we could take all the negativity off revleft, channel it into a dementor, then unleash it in the greek parliment

VICTORY IS OURS!

[Magón]

4. Arm the radicalised workers in urban areas, its easy to make a 9mm submachine gun, with metal and piping, munitions can be improvised too, manuals are widely available.

I'm only here for this, because I've heard this little tirade before. So to answer this: You mean you just want a British Sten Gun, right?

[AnarchoMassLineDemarchist]

well no, because making a sten gun MK would involve needing a drill etc, where as a basic 9 mm open bolt design, without the holed barrel guard is far easier, just need an angle grinder lol.

[Widerstand]

we could take all the negativity off revleft, channel it into a dementor, then unleash it in the greek parliment

VICTORY IS OURS!

Are you in greece?

[AnarchoMassLineDemarchist]

nah i live in Sangin Afghanistan, Why?

[Widerstand]

Because I personally feel I know far too little about the situation on ground to tell them what to do from my ivory tower in Germany.

[AnarchoMassLineDemarchist]

Why saruman lived in an ivory tower, that motherfucker was badass

[Pirate Utopian]

Somebody ban this troll.

[AnarchoMassLineDemarchist]

get a life u moanin git

[maskerade]

why do we always have to ban the trolls?

some of us don't get enough entertainment in our real lives.

[AK]

What tactics should the greek anarchists use to bring about a true workers revolution?
None of what you mentioned. They should agitate the workers so that revolutionary change can materialise.

[AK]

*replies to AnarchoMassLineDemarchist*
Why were these quotes attributed to broadcastingsilence?

[LETSFIGHTBACK]

so if your working class, you cannot run food kitchen or fight pigs.. until everyone else is?

funny how a Trot would accuse a non leninist of being outside the working class.

The only way workers will become revolutionary, is if those workers who are already radicalised, fight with them in everyday battles.

What do you suggest, theorising, and not doing anything for the cause.

Typical leninist aproach.

Lets theorise capitalism away, then we can impose our new, oppresive state on the workers, that sout of the fucking working class.


EXACTLY!!! what I've been saying, they sit in there small room, talk theory, impress each other and provide no example. or if they do leave the theory groups, it's to join social democrates in demo's raising libral demands that don't get the workers any closer to radicalization.

[Delenda Carthago]

when you deside,please let us now,ok?thank you.we ll be waiting by the door.

[LETSFIGHTBACK]

Somebody ban this troll.


Yeah, that's it, ban people, sort of like reverse McCarthyism.

[EvilRedGuy]

Wow this guy really is something...

[LETSFIGHTBACK]

None of what you mentioned. They should agitate the workers so that revolutionary change can materialise.

History does not make people, people make history, not by sitting back and waiting for conditions to change, but by going out and leading by example. sitting back, having coffee with workers and talking theory will only get you so far. people want to see action. the two go together theory+action changes things.

[Saorsa]

People like the OP need to be restricted because their presence on the boards lowers the quality of discussion. They derail threads and make us all look crazy.


4. Arm the radicalised workers in urban areas, its easy to make a 9mm submachine gun, with metal and piping, munitions can be improvised too, manuals are widely available.

You are such an idiot.

[revolution inaction]

People like the OP need to be restricted because their presence on the boards lowers the quality of discussion. They derail threads and make us all look crazy.


your a maoist

[AK]

History does not make people, people make history, not by sitting back and waiting for conditions to change, but by going out and leading by example. sitting back, having coffee with workers and talking theory will only get you so far. people want to see action. the two go together theory+action changes things.
What part of "agitating the working class" implies having coffee and talking theory with workers? We're not "waiting" for conditions to change - we are ensuring that the revolution becomes one of self-emancipation.

[LETSFIGHTBACK]

What part of "agitating the working class" implies having coffee and talking theory with workers? We're not "waiting" for conditions to change - we are ensuring that the revolution becomes one of self-emancipation.


Yeah, agitating the working class with liberal, reformist demands. oh yeah, that will revolutionize them lol lol

[Saorsa]

your a maoist

Woah, really?

[AK]

Yeah, agitating the working class with liberal, reformist demands. oh yeah, that will revolutionize them lol lol
Now where exactly did I propose liberal and reformist demands? Goddammit you are really fucking stupid.

[revolution inaction]

Woah, really?

and are therefore in no position to talk about other people making us look bad

[maskerade]

and are therefore in no position to talk about other people making us look bad

mindless sectarianism is so beautiful :rolleyes:

[revolution inaction]

mindless sectarianism is so beautiful :rolleyes:

its not sectarian, maoists and anarchists are not on the same side

[LETSFIGHTBACK]

Now where exactly did I propose liberal and reformist demands? Goddammit you are really fucking stupid.

That's what revolutionaries do, that is their method of agitating, blending in demo's called by Democrats, raising the same worn out, libral demands,you know, more jobs, money for jobs not for war blah blah blah. and if they happen to strike a conversation up with someone, they'll go have a drink, talk politics, make contacts, em' I wrong?

And as far as making sure that the revolution is one of self emancipation, do you mean the working class here? in the U.S? Bringing about a revolution on their own? LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL Oh man, I needed a good laugh. really, thank you.

[thriller]

your a maoist

Sorry, but I have to say it: LOL!!

[Ele'ill]

The first step is to never let the revolutionary flame that's been ignited over there blow out or diminish- that will be the death knell. There cannot be a lull- it isn't something that should be worked on it's something that's already there and that we need to break through their fucking walls to get to it.

[Ele'ill]

I found this significant (that entire thread too)




and a small video from the spot Fountas was droped dead.

http://il.youtube.com/watch?v=IonKDyg119k

Someone is calling the names of dead comrades killed by the cops
Kassimis-IMMORTAL
Koumis- IMMORTAL
Kanelopoulou-IMMORTAL
Kaltezas-IMMORTAL
Marinos-IMMORTAL
Guiliani-IMMORTAL
Grigoropoulos-IMMORTAL
Fountas-IMMORTAL

And to the scums of the State-DEATH

"Blood runs seeking for revenge"

[Saorsa]

and are therefore in no position to talk about other people making us look bad

Oh I don't deny my evil nature. I ate four babies this morning, and my favourite drink is children's tears.

I was commenting more on how amazingly intelligent and observant you are. Did you and the OP train for weeks in your underground base to recognise people like me, or does it just come naturally to you?

[Saorsa]

1: Make machine gunz
2: Shoot da gunnzzz
3: ....
4: Victory!

[AK]

That's what revolutionaries do, that is their method of agitating, blending in demo's called by Democrats, raising the same worn out, libral demands,you know, more jobs, money for jobs not for war blah blah blah. and if they happen to strike a conversation up with someone, they'll go have a drink, talk politics, make contacts, em' I wrong?
So you think all revolutionaries are liberals? What the fuck are you doing on this website?


And as far as making sure that the revolution is one of self emancipation, do you mean the working class here? in the U.S? Bringing about a revolution on their own? LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL Oh man, I needed a good laugh. really, thank you.
So let me get this straight: you are a communist yet you show absolutely no faith in the working class whatsoever? Besides, peoples' attitudes now are hardly going to be similar to their attitudes after they have been educated and have learnt that they must further the class struggle. What the hell kind of revolution do you support; one where the working class does not seize the means of production?


The emancipation of the working class must be an act of the workers themselves.

------------------------

CAPS LOCK IS CRUISE CONTROL FOR COOL

[The Garbage Disposal Unit]

They should have a dance party, ending in an occupation. Later, an orgy.

To clarify, I mean that talking about what Greek anarchists should do is really silly, unless we're talking about putting the question to Greek anarchists.

[Crux]

To clarify, I mean that talking about what Greek anarchists should do is really silly, unless we're talking about putting the question to Greek anarchists.
This.

no, wait, I mean


They should have a dance party, ending in an occupation. Later, an orgy.
This.

[REVLEFT'S BIEGGST MATSER TROL]

People like the OP need to be restricted because their presence on the boards lowers the quality of discussion. They derail threads and make us all look crazy.


This, all the threads I looked in today were so goddamn awful.

1 million jobs created in glorious socialist vietnam! Arm workers with guns made out of pipes, ride forklifts into battle. Chavez denounces the bourgeious and has been spending the past 12 years helping "build the right conditions" for workers to make revolution for sure yo!

[gorillafuck]

What tactics should the greek anarchists use to bring about a true workers revolution?

1. Kill those KKE motherfuckers, before they purge the Anarchists, Councilists and the workers who want real change.
As much as I don't like the KKE, this would literally be the worst thing they could possibly do.

You're such a troll.

[Ocean Seal]

What tactics should the greek anarchists use to bring about a true workers revolution?

1. Kill those KKE motherfuckers, before they purge the Anarchists, Councilists and the workers who want real change.

2. Run survival programs, take over small factories and shops, run small liberated zones, top show how post anarchist society would look.

3. Destabalise the parlimentary parties, by having demonstrations and riots against right wing, centreist and centre left capitalist parties, show the workers there are no alternatives.

4. Arm the radicalised workers in urban areas, its easy to make a 9mm submachine gun, with metal and piping, munitions can be improvised too, manuals are widely available.

5. sieze upper class neighborhoods, use the properties to house workers, and build more and more liberated zones.

6. Storm and destroy tourist spots and hotels, make the economic freefall hit the government even harder, by denying much needed revenue.

7. Make a final push, take over society and end capitalism.

The things in bold might not make for the most effective tactics. First of all, capitalism hasn't fallen so infighting between the left merely weakens it. It would be nice to see a mix between ML and libertarian politics, and that should be encouraged, however naive it seems at this point. 5 & 6, I can understand the sentiment but they make you less popular and also they allow the bourgeois parties to scapegoat you. If number five is accomplished then they will say: look at the libertarian socialists they wan't to take your property. This is something that has allowed them to stay in power for decades. The fear of losing what people have left is something very scary for them. Its very scary for even those with very little. 6 also makes you into the scapegoat. The bourgeois parties will say look at those anarchists they are the one's preventing your family from eating, look at what they do to our profit. Instead of destroying hotels encourage the workers to go on strike. That way the reactionary parties will have to state that they worker's are destroying the wealth. Most people will identify with the workers and they will see the hypocrisy of the parties and then the capitalist parties will suffer for their anti-working class sentiment.

[727Goon]

Not unless you want to engage in individual or small group confrontations with the cops and pretend that its politics.


Guess the Black Panthers didnt have anything to do with politics huh

[revolution inaction]

Oh I don't deny my evil nature. I ate four babies this morning, and my favourite drink is children's tears.

I was commenting more on how amazingly intelligent and observant you are. Did you and the OP train for weeks in your underground base to recognise people like me, or does it just come naturally to you?

1. the op is a fuck wit

2. how did you know about our underground base?

[LETSFIGHTBACK]

So you think all revolutionaries are liberals? What the fuck are you doing on this website?


So let me get this straight: you are a communist yet you show absolutely no faith in the working class whatsoever? Besides, peoples' attitudes now are hardly going to be similar to their attitudes after they have been educated and have learnt that they must further the class struggle. What the hell kind of revolution do you support; one where the working class does not seize the means of production?



------------------------

CAPS LOCK IS CRUISE CONTROL FOR COOL

To answer your first question you so eloquently asked: No, but when it comes to the Trot's, yes, it is hard to distinguish them from the librals at demo's.

2-no, I have no faith in the working class in the U.S.A.,why, because the people have absolutely so immagination,no vision,they are greedy,pragmatic, self centered,self absorbed, politically Illiterate and slolthful. now, you prove me wrong.

yes, the working class doesn't realize the power they have. they can close down the entire country, bring the world to it's knees, collectively, together, so, yes, the working class has my respect, no, I hate their intellectual dumbed down state,which is what i'm, like you, trying to change. do I have faith, no, not in my life time. but it won't stop me from trying.

[Omi]

This, all the threads I looked in today were so goddamn awful.

1 million jobs created in glorious socialist vietnam! Arm workers with guns made out of pipes, ride forklifts into battle. Chavez denounces the bourgeious and has been spending the past 12 years helping "build the right conditions" for workers to make revolution for sure yo!

Dude, riding forklifts into battle is the most ingenious revolutionary programme ever devised by anyone on the left, ever. If it won't bring us revolution I do not know what will.