Balancing Defecits

[blackemma]

I was curious as to everyone's opinions as to how to balance socialist budgets. Currently, I'm having a debate as to if it would be possible to run an economically successful socialist country. In moderately social-democratic countries, this has been possible since the services provided are rather limited. As has been pointed out with Sweden, the system has largely been bailed out from deficit only through cutbacks to the social sector and government program spending. Assuming, for the sake of argument, that you and your party (socialist in principle) are elected to government - please bear with me, I don't wish for arguments about how revolution is necessary, etc. That's for another discussion - and that you are one of the few socialist or social-democratic parties in power in the Western world. Assuming the economic system place is a moderately regulated form of capitalism, how would you go about enacting reforms and building socialism in a realistic manner? Here are some questions worth considering:

1. In what way would the government pay for social programs?

2. To what extent would nationalization factor into budgeting and how would nationalization be brought about?

3. To what extent would worker self-management factor into your socialist system and how would you implement it?

4. If you were to instigate reform, how would you avoid such things as capital flight from over-taxation or progressive legislation?

5. If you were planning to run a deficit, would you continue to borrow money?

6. If banks refused to lend money unless you were to "open up" the economy, allow privatization, etc. How would you respond?

7. If inflation became a problem, how would you deal with it?

Those are just some of the questions I was wondering. It seems to me that creating socialism within a market-dominated society is a difficult task, regardless of what type of socialism one wishes to create. In ways, Cuba and Sweden face the same economic problems of attempting to run socialistic economies in a capitalist world. Still, as world revolution is not likely to occur in the near future, I find the above questions more engaging since they pertain to present conditons and problems.

Your contribution is appreciated.

[chamo]

Hello, welcome to the board. I hope I have answered these questions well, as you can see I didn't understand a couple of them so I just left them out. I've never studied economics but I'll do my best.

1. In what way would the government pay for social programs?

Mainly tax from trading with other countries, that is if there is no trade embargo. Also, the 100%, or near enough, tax rate. Much like the British Welfare State uses it's taxes to pay for government departments and services.

2. To what extent would nationalization factor into budgeting and how would nationalization be brought about?

Nationalisation would be brought about by simply taking over the businesses from the capitalists and keeping the same workforce whilst assigning government officials to take care and oversee the departments.

3. To what extent would worker self-management factor into your socialist system and how would you implement it?

The workers would all have a say in the running of the business but there would be someone to take the points into thought and make a final decision based on the majority opinion. After the basic transformation to socialism and after nationalisation has fully taken place all the socialist businesses could be changed to worker co-operatives.

I didn't sunderstand 4 & 5. :blink:

6. If banks refused to lend money unless you were to "open up" the economy, allow privatization, etc. How would you respond?

The banks would be nationalised and money would be simple to obtain by the government in this way.

7. If inflation became a problem, how would you deal with it?

Change the currency. :lol:

[Vinny Rafarino]

How to run a successful Socialist Nation;


Please review the Soviet Union from 1918-1953.

[blackemma]

How to run a successful Socialist Nation;


Please review the Soviet Union from 1918-1953.

Amusing, but you didn't actually answer the question put forward. You see, what I asked was:


Assuming, for the sake of argument, that you and your party (socialist in principle) are elected to government - please bear with me, I don't wish for arguments about how revolution is necessary, etc. That's for another discussion - and that you are one of the few socialist or social-democratic parties in power in the Western world. Assuming the economic system place is a moderately regulated form of capitalism, how would you go about enacting reforms and building socialism in a realistic manner?

The question wasn't why you believe the Soviet from 1918-1953 was a successful Socialist Nation, though it does raise the grammatical question of why the words "socialist" and "nation" are both capitalized. Witty answer, but please try again.

[Vinny Rafarino]

Wow. A grammatical question was raised on a message board. There's something you don't see everyday.


I truly feel sorry for you that my post went over your head mate. We can't all possess genius.

[apathy maybe]

1. In what way would the government pay for social programs?
Firstly I would reform the tax system. Scrap all taxes except for income taxes and have a graded scale such that the top end would pay about 70 or 80 percent tax.

2. To what extent would nationalization factor into budgeting and how would nationalization be brought about?
Nationalisation of essential services would be brought about by the government simply buying the company lock stock and barrel. These include power, water, telephone, health and schools. These would continue to opperate as they were until we get around to changing things properly. Thus they will continue to pay for themselves just with the government as the sole owner.

3. To what extent would worker self-management factor into your socialist system and how would you implement it?
It depends on the industry. But more probable, because the average worker knows not much about managment, they will elect from a choice of possible leaders who do know things about managment & leadership. But there will not be much for them to do except move people to other jobs if they are efficient at their current job.

4. If you were to instigate reform, how would you avoid such things as capital flight from over-taxation or progressive legislation?
No capital or currency leaves the country, any person leaving the country automaticly gives the government all their property. This prevents the currency from leaving the country and gives the government a much needed shot of money just when they need it. :)

5. If you were planning to run a deficit, would you continue to borrow money?
Us borrow money?

6. If banks refused to lend money unless you were to "open up" the economy, allow privatization, etc. How would you respond?
See above.

7. If inflation became a problem, how would you deal with it?
It wouldn't become a problem because the government controls prices.

While one or two of the answers were not strictly implementable the rest of it I think would work quite well.

[Saint-Just]

Sweden is social-democratic; not socialist.

I wil answer the other questions later. As to the question in the title: You would avoid a deficit by having exports in excess of imports. You can reduce imports by manufacturing as much as you can yourself; self-sufficiency. All socialist countries have practised this, some more successfully than others.

Also:

5. If you were planning to run a deficit, would you continue to borrow money?

Although I wouldn't have any qualms with seeing Gordon Brown in a labour camp I think the goldon rule is a good idea. To only use borrowing to pay for capital goods so that the borrowing can be paid back from the growth in the future.

'Nationalisation of essential services would be brought about by the government simply buying the company lock stock and barrel.'

How about we go into the board room and inform them its now ours and they won't be getting any compensation, furthermore all past profits will be confiscated by the state too.

[apathy maybe]

'Nationalisation of essential services would be brought about by the government simply buying the company lock stock and barrel.'

How about we go into the board room and inform them its now ours and they won't be getting any compensation, furthermore all past profits will be confiscated by the state too.


Because we are supposed to be obaying the laws and until they are changed I don't think any government would be able to do that.

[Just Joe]

1. In what way would the government pay for social programs?

Through nationalisation and central planning. Revenues from certain sectors of the economy would more than pay for a welfare state. High taxes are really not required.

2. To what extent would nationalization factor into budgeting and how would nationalization be brought about?

Nationalisation would be simple. Compensation if required. How would it factor in budgeting is a near impossible question to answer without more specific details about the country, the situation, the resources and the specific needs of its people.

3. To what extent would worker self-management factor into your socialist system and how would you implement it?

I personally prefer worker democracy and power in the workplace rather than co-operative management. The right to recall managers, voice opinions and raise votes is more important than workers actually running everything day to day. That is really just worker capitalism. Maybe it could work in some small companies but I don't think its something socialists on the whole should encourage.

If you were to instigate reform, how would you avoid such things as capital flight from over-taxation or progressive legislation?

No capital flight when theres no capitalism :lol: Nationalisation is at the heart of socialism. If companies want to take there business elsewhere, it will save the trouble of taking there business' of them. However like I mentioned, there is no chance to use capital in a socialist society because capital doesn't exist.

5. If you were planning to run a deficit, would you continue to borrow money?

Again, to hard to answer without specific details on the situation.

6. If banks refused to lend money unless you were to "open up" the economy, allow privatization, etc. How would you respond?

Again, if this was a socialist society, banks would not lend money. That is Capitalism. They most certainly would be the first industry to be nationalised also.

7. If inflation became a problem, how would you deal with it?

I'd like to think if I was managing an economy, inflation would not be a problem. Especially if its a socialist planned economy. Even in the state-capitalist USSR, prices stayed the same for years. Inflation really should not be a problem unless you really screw up and with a democratic government that is accountable, even that can be quickly put right.

[Saint-Just]

Originally posted by apathy [email protected] 5 2003, 12:46 AM


'Nationalisation of essential services would be brought about by the government simply buying the company lock stock and barrel.'

How about we go into the board room and inform them its now ours and they won't be getting any compensation, furthermore all past profits will be confiscated by the state too.


Because we are supposed to be obaying the laws and until they are changed I don't think any government would be able to do that.
Yes but, all new governments change the law. Admittedly some more significantly than others, but we are a revolutionary movement.

[Marxist in Nebraska]

I am skeptical about developing socialism through the channels of capitalist bourgeois-democratic elections. However, if socialism is to be attained through government reform, I would go with something like this:

1. In what way would the government pay for social programs?

We will utilize a progressive income tax. Every penny earned over $100,000 a year (arbitrary number) will be taxed at a 90-95% clip. Rates will decline steadily for workers in lower economic brackets. It is hard to set the tax levels beforehand because I would deflate prices via price fixing. We could also use a property/luxury tax of sorts to expropriate the capitalists' stolen wealth. All sales taxes and other regressive taxes will be abolished immediately. Flat taxes only punish the working class.

2. To what extent would nationalization factor into budgeting and how would nationalization be brought about?

I would say that we need to nationalize necessary things like electricity and water treatment facilities immediately. The workers would pay high taxes, and in exchange the government would run these businesses and provide water and electricity to the people inexpensively.

3. To what extent would worker self-management factor into your socialist system and how would you implement it?

One way or another, there needs to be real democracy in the workplace. May any method that proves to be successful be implemented.

4. If you were to instigate reform, how would you avoid such things as capital flight from over-taxation or progressive legislation?

The industry will be nationalized. The only capital that could be lost be fleeing members of the ruling class would be in paper currency. To remedy that, I would change the currency... thus, making those wads of greenbacks worthless.

5. If you were planning to run a deficit, would you continue to borrow money?

I do not believe that deficits would be necessary. I do not think this would be a problem.

6. If banks refused to lend money unless you were to "open up" the economy, allow privatization, etc. How would you respond?

Domestic banks will be nationalized. Foreign banks will have no influence because we do not need their investment capital.

7. If inflation became a problem, how would you deal with it?

Price controls prevent inflation. No inflation, no problem.