Stalinism: The New Fifth-Columnism?

[Kléber]

So i herd u liek overthrowing Correa in alliance with US imperialism? You guys helped bring down Najibullah, look how great that turned out. Why not try for a repeat performance?

So maybe the Falange-JONS were like, proto-Hoxhaists? :blink:

The Bolsheviks should have helped Kornilov against that bourgeois shithead Kerensky. Probably would have too, and started the revolution earlier, if it weren't for that scoundrel Trotsky (always sympathizing with his fellow "-skys" if you know what i mean *cough* veiled antisemitism *cough*)

I mean just imagine the banners! "AFTER KORNILOV, OUR TURN!" wait, where have i heard that before. Hitler wouldn't be a spoilsport and deny us our turn right?

So, discuss.

[Os Cangaceiros]

So I'm guessing you disagree with the description of Hoxhaists as "Trotskyists with a Red Alert fetish"?

[Kléber]

So I'm guessing you disagree with the description of Hoxhaists as "Trotskyists with a Red Alert fetish"?
Trotskyists did not side with fascists against the Spanish Republic, in fact we had the right strategy to defeat fascism (permanent revolution). Stalinists on the other hand are openly on the side of reaction, whether it be in North Ireland, Afghanistan, Venezuela, South Africa, Namibia, Angola, Ecuador or anywhere.

In Spain, the stalinites half-assedly supported the Republic only to stab it in the back and hand it over to Hitler and Mussolini. So perhaps this is a positive development, that Stalin-fascists are now honest about where they stand, in Ecuador or elsewhere. Perhaps they will rehash their historical position now, and say "We were the ones who should have been liquidated by NKVD!"

But who cares anyway? I mean to paraphrase the user "pranabjyoti," (not a hoxhaist but a maoist whose co-religionists have similarly sided with counter-revolution in Venezuela) when you take out the anti-semitism Nazi Germany wasn't much different from Soviet Russia :lol:

[Os Cangaceiros]

If only Uncle Joe were still around, he'd sort this mess out.

[Lenina Rosenweg]

So i herd u liek overthrowing Correa in alliance with US imperialism? You guys helped bring down Najibullah, look how great that turned out. Why not try for a repeat performance?

So maybe the Falange-JONS were like, proto-Hoxhaists? :blink:

The Bolsheviks should have helped Kornilov against that bourgeois shithead Kerensky. Probably would have too, and started the revolution earlier, if it weren't for that scoundrel Trotsky (always sympathizing with his fellow "-skys" if you know what i mean *cough* veiled antisemitism *cough*)

I mean just imagine the banners! "AFTER KORNILOV, OUR TURN!" wait, where have i heard that before. Hitler wouldn't be a spoilsport and deny us our turn right?

So, discuss.

Have patience comrade. First we must ally with the national bourgeoisie to defeat imperialism, then and only then can we eventually fight for socialism.

We can't side w/imperialism, we must support Achmanijad! Iran has no working class, to think otherwise shows a Eurocentric contempt for third world people.

Listen to Soviet Dude! I mean what would have happened if Allende had broken with capitalism? Think of the disaster that would have occurred!

Isn't this basically what Lenin was arguing in the April Thesis?

[Rusty Shackleford]

So I'm guessing you disagree with the description of Hoxhaists as "Trotskyists with a Red Alert fetish"?
sounds about right.

[Lyev]

This site is full of white middle-class revisionist-trotskyite racists!! :mad::mad:

[Panda Tse Tung]

Trotskyists did not side with fascists against the Spanish Republic, in fact we had the right strategy to defeat fascism (permanent revolution). Stalinists on the other hand are openly on the side of reaction, whether it be in North Ireland, Afghanistan, Venezuela, South Africa, Namibia, Angola, Ecuador or anywhere.

Srsly, what are you talking about?

[Q]

Srsly, what are you talking about?

Perhaps about that the stalinist parties have always played a counter-revolutionary role in the past 80 years, across the whole planet and that these parties, at least in the west, have very often degenerated into liquidationism and rightwing reformism?

Just brainstorming with you here :)

[Panda Tse Tung]

Perhaps about that the stalinist parties have always played a counter-revolutionary role in the past 80 years, across the whole planet and that these parties, at least in the west, have very often degenerated into liquidationism and rightwing reformism?

Just brainstorming with you here :)
Well then lets look at the nations in question (excepting Spain, since Spanish civil war =/= shitstorm.).


North IrelandThe official IRA.


AfghanistanOpposed the Taliban. Edit: i'm assuming we are talking about the whole Civil war thing and not the invasion. I dont think there are differences of agreement over the latter.


VenezuelaThe CP of Venezuela strongly supports Chavez. Though remaining independent.


South AfricaThe CP of South Africa is upto this day in the ANC. And Nelson Mandela repeatedly praised the Communists for their work.

Actually, fuck the rest i'm getting bored :p.

Also, the thread is about the Correa thing. Where the CP supports Correa... so yeah...

[Catillina]

Stalin played a major counter-revolutionary role during the 30tis. I can imagine that other Stalinist organisations will also call out that in an attempt to solidify power, we have to not scare away the other powers...*counter-revolutionan*

[Honggweilo]

Perhaps about that the stalinist parties have always played a counter-revolutionary role in the past 80 years, across the whole planet and that these parties, at least in the west, have very often degenerated into liquidationism and rightwing reformism?

Just brainstorming with you here :)

tendency war? in my chit-chat?

in contrast to entryist parties that ummm.. have played no significant role at all :rolleyes: (and actually supported outright reformist parties till the bitter end). the burden of proof is a real ***** init XD

srsly guise, this thread again? gtfo of chit chat and go back to history/politics y'all XD

[Pavlov's House Party]

tendency war? in my chit-chat?

it's more likely than you think

[Lyev]

tendency war? in my chit-chat?

in contrast to entryist parties that ummm.. have played no significant role at all :rolleyes: (and actually supported outright reformist parties till the bitter end). the burden of proof is a real ***** init XD

srsly guise, this thread again? gtfo of chit chat and go back to history/politics y'all XDSorry, I know this is chit-chat, but what example(s) do you have in mind here? Bear in the mind the historical significance of the French Turn. I think when Trotsky wrote, in June '34, about members of the French Communist League joining, or becoming active within, the SFIO it wasn't particularly formulated to be applied somewhere off into the future (as opposed to something like permanent revolution, the transitional program etc.), as far as I know. It was more about the general situation in France at the time, what with the popular front, which, to my knowledge, was a policy officially adopted by the Stalinist Comintern, and which in turn lead to a major fuck-up in the Spanish Civil War.

[Panda Tse Tung]

Sorry, I know this is chit-chat, but what example(s) do you have in mind here? Bear in the mind the historical significance of the French Turn. I think when Trotsky wrote, in June '34, about members of the French Communist League joining, or becoming active within, the SFIO it wasn't particularly formulated to be applied somewhere off into the future (as opposed to something like permanent revolution, the transitional program etc.), as far as I know. It was more about the general situation in France at the time, what with the popular front, which, to my knowledge, was a policy officially adopted by the Stalinist Comintern, and which in turn lead to a major fuck-up in the Spanish Civil War.
Thats interesting... because the IMT and the CWI (your organisation) are the most active as entryists.

[Kléber]

Well then lets look at the nations in question
I should have specified I was talking about Hoxhaists and some Maoist groups who have often taken opportunist stances against pro-Soviet and other bourgeois nationalist regimes at the same time as US imperialism was trying to take them down. I was not talking about official CP's (even though they are just as capable of betrayals, like the Iraqi CP's support of the US invasion) since few plain old "Communist Parties" have properly fit the label "Stalinist" for half a century; they are now mostly outright reformist or eurocommunist groups, many include self-proclaimed Trotskyist tendencies, and/or they historically supported Khrushchev's denunciation of Stalin.


in contrast to entryist parties that ummm.. have played no significant role at all (and actually supported outright reformist parties till the bitter end).
If the Fourth International had been so insignificant then the Soviet bureaucracy would not have expended its limited resources and paid for a large-scale intelligence and assassination operation to destroy it.

Oh and I was drunk when I made this thread, it should be trashed or something.

[Honggweilo]

If the Fourth International had been so insignificant then the Soviet bureaucracy would not have expended its limited resources and paid for a large-scale intelligence and assassination operation to destroy it.

Oh and I was drunk when I made this thread, it should be trashed or something.

oh i forgot to add "after grandmaster bronstein hit the bucket"

it pretty hilarious actually that you post obnoxious marginal and uncoherent historic political rants like this kind of shit when being drunk XD, i had a few tall ones too atm, but my level of humor is on a totally different plain right now... somewhere between fart jokes and trolling, like most people :rolleyes:

[Charles Xavier]

I don't remember when it was decided that some counter-revolutionary party in Ecuador speaks for Stalin.

Whether you liked him or not, Stalin wouldn't have supported a US backed coup in Ecuador.

The Communist Party of Ecuador has clearly spoken out against the Coup D'Etat.

[Honggweilo]

I don't remember when it was decided that some counter-revolutionary party in Ecuador speaks for Stalin.

Whether you liked him or not, Stalin wouldn't have supported a US backed coup in Ecuador.

The Communist Party of Ecuador has clearly spoken out against the Coup D'Etat.

when i doubt, blame stalin

hey, dont look at me, it works!

edit: on futher notice, reading the statement of the PCMLE (hoxhaists) on the coup, its really pretty disgusting how they support the coup as a "uprising of mutinious troops and police", ignoring the american intervention and the outright reactionairy charactre of the movement...... Partido Rojo in venezuela anyone?

http://anasintaxi-en.blogspot.com/2010/10/pcmle-regarding-events-of-september-30.html

besides klebers infantile "lol silly stalinoids are all the same, supporting tyranny everywhere!!1!", this topic should be up for discussion in politics (havent seen it yet)

[Kléber]

Joseph "Throw the KKE to the Wolves" Stalin wouldn't support some US coup d'etat, even if it served him breakfast in bed. Hell if Uncle Joe were here today, he'd shit on his orthodox adherents and become true-blue Bolivarian Marcyist-Khrushchevist. I mean it's not like he approved of the Nazi conquests during 1939-41 by expelling the embassies-in-exile of countries occupied by Hitler... what do you think the Stalinist USSR was the imperialist USA with forced migrations of entire indigenous peoples from their homelands or anything? :tongue_smilie:

[Bilan]

If it weren't for Deconditioned Reflex I would beat up Stalinists.

[Charles Xavier]

Joseph "Throw the KKE to the Wolves" Stalin wouldn't support some US coup d'etat, even if it served him breakfast in bed. Hell if Uncle Joe were here today, he'd shit on his orthodox adherents and become true-blue Bolivarian Marcyist-Khrushchevist. I mean it's not like he approved of the Nazi conquests during 1939-41 by expelling the embassies-in-exile of countries occupied by Hitler... what do you think the Stalinist USSR was the imperialist USA with forced migrations of entire indigenous peoples from their homelands or anything? :tongue_smilie:

You think the goal of a socialist country who is industrially and militarily behind imperialist country is to invade imperialist countries, take them over and install socialist governments?

[Adi Shankara]

If it weren't for Deconditioned Reflex I would beat up Stalinists.

No you wouldn't. I never met a Stalinist IRL who wasn't completely built or militant. They almost always know how to defend themselves and fight.

[Q]

No you wouldn't. I never met a Stalinist IRL who wasn't completely built or militant. They almost always know how to defend themselves and fight.

Then you can't have met that many.

[Barry Lyndon]

No you wouldn't. I never met a Stalinist IRL who wasn't completely built or militant. They almost always know how to defend themselves and fight.

Weren't you banned for homophobia, scumbag?

[Adi Shankara]

Weren't you banned for homophobia, scumbag?

Nope. I was never homophobic to anyone. stop being dramatic. you're impressing no one.

[Barry Lyndon]

Whoever let him back in should be banned for enabling homophobia.

See post #51 where he approvingly cites a right wing Christian fundamentalist website claiming that homosexuality arises out of dysfunctional relationships between sons and their mothers:
http://www.revleft.com/vb/feminists-malei-t141787/index3.html

[promethean]

Whoever let him back in should be banned for enabling homophobia.
While quoting without reservation from a right wing source might be slightly idiotic, it is not proof for homophobia.

[Adi Shankara]

Whoever let him back in should be banned for enabling homophobia.

See post #51 where he approvingly cites a right wing Christian fundamentalist website claiming that homosexuality arises out of dysfunctional relationships between sons and their mothers:
http://www.revleft.com/vb/feminists-malei-t141787/index3.html

I made a mistake in quoting a source. I didn't know quoting certain sources without looking at them, while foolish I admit, was a bannable offense. I admitted that on Rjevan's page I made a mistake.; ergo, you can gently stop your foolish crusade now. :)

[Os Cangaceiros]

No you wouldn't. I never met a Stalinist IRL who wasn't completely built or militant. They almost always know how to defend themselves and fight.

I don't believe you. Stalinists existing in real life is just too fantastic a claim.

[LeninBalls]

im really hungry but im just too comfy in bed

[Bilan]

No you wouldn't. I never met a Stalinist IRL who wasn't completely built or militant. They almost always know how to defend themselves and fight.

That is a lie, and a shitty one at that.

[Lyev]

Thats interesting... because the IMT and the CWI (your organisation) are the most active as entryists.Refute entryism first. And, yes, I realise the CWI's history of entryism.

anyway, we can move this into theory or history or whatever if people would like to debate it a bit more seriously.



FREE ADI SHANKARA!!

[Bilan]

OPPRESS ADI SHANKARA!
It's a great idea.