Caucasus

[CHEGUAVARA]

I don't think there's any thread, or at least active thread about the situation in Caucasus. I think Chechnya, Dagestan and other Caucasus republics deserve to be free just like Palestine does. But I have also heard there are muslim extremists in these countries. Is that true?

[hatzel]

There are, yes. Or, there are extremists who happen to be Muslims, that's the largest part, but smaller groups like Shariat Jamaat (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharia_Jamaat) are definitely Islamic extremists, rather than just extremist Muslims...if that makes sense...

That isn't to say that such groups should colour our perception of the nationalist movements in the Caucasus, though, as they aren't necessarily representative.

[Tifosi]

When ever I hear of the conflict in the Caucasus, the Mujahideen is always talked about. Sorry, but all I can give you is a Wikipedia link here (http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_Mujahideen_in_Chechnya).

[Devrim]

When ever I hear of the conflict in the Caucasus, the Mujahideen is always talked about. Sorry, but all I can give you is a Wikipedia link here (http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_Mujahideen_in_Chechnya).

But as the word just means 'strugglers', or 'those doing jihad', and doesn't apply to any specific organisation, it is not surprising that they pop up everywhere.

Devrim

[Tavarisch_Mike]

The conflict in Chechenya is all about oil (and gas). When the Soviet Union collapsed, the region does not been given so much resources as they used to, wich has created a will for independence, ore at least a much more de-centralized autonomous status.
There are religeous fascist groups in the armed struggle, but i dont know if they have the clearest support ore if its just the way that the conflict is portraited.

[Tifosi]

But as the word just means 'strugglers', or 'those doing jihad', and doesn't apply to any specific organisation, it is not surprising that they pop up everywhere.

Devrim

I know that there no set organization called Mujahideen as anyone can call themselves it. Yet when ever the conflict in the Caucasus, or anywhere else where a group calling themselves Muhahideen is fighting is ever mentioned here the word Mujahideen is used as if there is an official organization. Like it is connected to groups that fought in Afghanistan or Bosnia, when in fact they are separate groups.

[Сталин]

Chechnya doesn't deserve anything. That country would be a hotspot for terrorist activity and a haven for the fascist system known as islamic fundamentalism. It is just as evil as zionist or nazi ideologies, and Stalin himself took on the task of quelling these bastards. They've committed gross crimes against the Russian people and as we all know, in their sister states of South Asia; if you are not a muslim, don't conform to their religious laws, you will be persecuted.

[Nolan]

Chechnya doesn't deserve anything. That country would be a hotspot for terrorist activity and a haven for the fascist system known as islamic fundamentalism. It is just as evil as zionist or nazi ideologies, and Stalin himself took on the task of quelling these bastards. They've committed gross crimes against the Russian people and as we all know, in their sister states of South Asia; if you are not a muslim, don't conform to their religious laws, you will be persecuted.

Yeah, why don't you put a little bit of that in context?
(http://ml-review.ca/aml/AllianceIssues/All42-Settlements.html)

[Nolan]

But Chechnya and those other countries deserve the same rights any other nation does. If they want independence from Russia, all the power to them. Now they're just a neocolony of Moscow.

[Сталин]

Are you refuting the Soviet policy dealing with Chechnya as well? So the Soviets were just Capitalists oppressing the Chechens too for their oil? Where is your logic coming from? That is Russian territory; Former Soviet Territory and that oil belongs to us.

[Patchd]

Are you refuting the Soviet policy dealing with Chechnya as well? So the Soviets were just Capitalists oppressing the Chechens too for their oil? Where is your logic coming from?
I guess you could say I got that logic from you;


That is Russian territory; Former Soviet Territory and that oil belongs to us.Natural resources don't belong to any 'people'. But good work on defending the territorial claims of your own (Russian) capitalists. :thumbup1:

[Сталин]

I guess you could say I got that logic from you;

Natural resources don't belong to any 'people'. But good work on defending the territorial claims of your own (Russian) capitalists. :thumbup1:
Please don't tell me what to defend. That soil has been a part of Russia for centuries. Now some imperialist islamic separatists decide they will take it from us? So you say there should be no such thing as territorial integrity? I'm sorry, I don't buy into that stateless anarchism garbage... If I had one wish; it would be Stalin took care of them before Putin did, and if you did your research, you would know he tried ever so hard to.

[Nolan]

Are you refuting the Soviet policy dealing with Chechnya as well? So the Soviets were just Capitalists oppressing the Chechens too for their oil? Where is your logic coming from? That is Russian territory; Former Soviet Territory and that oil belongs to us.

Why is a "communist" so quick to defend the territorial claims of an imperial capitalist state? The bold says it all, really.

[Jazzhands]

That is Russian territory; Former Soviet Territory and that oil belongs to us.

Who is "us?" Are you implying that you actually support an imperialist war out of some misguided sense of Russian nationalism? It's great to see that you are supporting a war that you know is caused by capitalists looking for natural resources. Supporting the wars of capitalist countries for economic reasons is possibly the least communist thing you can do.

[Rafiq]

Chechnya doesn't deserve anything. That country would be a hotspot for terrorist activity and a haven for the fascist system known as islamic fundamentalism. It is just as evil as zionist or nazi ideologies, and Stalin himself took on the task of quelling these bastards. They've committed gross crimes against the Russian people and as we all know, in their sister states of South Asia; if you are not a muslim, don't conform to their religious laws, you will be persecuted.

What do you mean, Chechnya doesn't deserve anything? If it is a Russian territory, like you are saying, don't you think that Area deserves just as much as the Rest of Russia?

Chechnya is known to have many US agents arming the Salafi Muhajadeen.

However, I don't support the current Russian government. I think that both Chechnya and Russia must be at peace.


I don't know much about the conflict, though.

[Сталин]

None of you are understanding me. You're misinterpreting my message; Chechnya is not a country, it is traditionally and still should be a part of Russia. There are two types of Chechens; the islamic fundamentalist terrorist, separatist ones, and the sane ones. It is not as if Russia were oppressing their people in anyway whatsoever - they brought the war on themselves and they were responsible for the attrocities that took place during the war. I would be happy though if these raving lunatics stopped trying to segregate this land from Russia. And I'm not supporting the economic motives, I'm supporting the war; and the other Russians fighting religious extremism.

Call me what you want; it doesn't change what I am.

[Rafiq]

None of you are understanding me. You're misinterpreting my message; Chechnya is not a country, it is traditionally and still should be a part of Russia. There are two types of Chechens; the islamic fundamentalist terrorist, separatist ones, and the sane ones. It is not as if Russia were oppressing their people in anyway whatsoever - they brought the war on themselves and they were responsible for the attrocities that took place during the war. I would be happy though if these raving lunatics stopped trying to segregate this land from Russia. And I'm not supporting the economic motives, I'm supporting the war; and the other Russians fighting religious extremism.

Call me what you want; it doesn't change what I am.

Are you supporting War? Or do you just want Chechnya to be part of Russia?

Supporting War is not good at all.

[Zanthorus]

Why is a "communist" so quick to defend the territorial claims of an imperial capitalist state? The bold says it all, really.

Because his brand of 'Communism' is pure and simple Russian nationalism. Just look at his organisational affiliation. The CPRF is a nationalist organisation.

[Сталин]

Because his brand of 'Communism' is pure and simple Russian nationalism. Just look at his organisational affiliation. The CPRF is a nationalist organisation.
Idiot

[Dimentio]

Awww... good ol' days when Int_00h ruled the interwebz.

[Jazzhands]

None of you are understanding me. You're misinterpreting my message; Chechnya is not a country, it is traditionally and still should be a part of Russia.

So? In 1917, Russia had "traditionally" been an absolute monarchy. Didn't stop the Bolsheviks, did they? "Tradition" doesn't matter at all. We stand for changing the system, not going with it because "tradition" says so.


There are two types of Chechens; the islamic fundamentalist terrorist, separatist ones, and the sane ones.

This is a really chauvinist attitude.


It is not as if Russia were oppressing their people in anyway whatsoever

So you don't think the Russian army invading a country for oil is oppression? Not even counting the immense number of human rights violations committed since the start of the war.


they brought the war on themselves and they were responsible for the attrocities that took place during the war.

Even the Russian ones? riiight:rolleyes:


I would be happy though if these raving lunatics stopped trying to segregate this land from Russia. And I'm not supporting the economic motives, I'm supporting the war; and the other Russians fighting religious extremism.

Leftists in general are always against religious extremism, but that doesn't mean we 100% support the US occupation of Afghanistan, because we know what the real objectives are, and because it's still an imperialist conflict.

[mosfeld]

Chechnya doesn't deserve anything. That country would be a hotspot for terrorist activity and a haven for the fascist system known as islamic fundamentalism. It is just as evil as zionist or nazi ideologies, and Stalin himself took on the task of quelling these bastards. They've committed gross crimes against the Russian people and as we all know, in their sister states of South Asia; if you are not a muslim, don't conform to their religious laws, you will be persecuted.
Russian chauvinist, imperialist apologist and pseudo-communist bullshit like this should get you restricted. As simple as that.

[Сталин]

So? In 1917, Russia had "traditionally" been an absolute monarchy. Didn't stop the Bolsheviks, did they? "Tradition" doesn't matter at all. We stand for changing the system, not going with it because "tradition" says so.



This is a really chauvinist attitude.



So you don't think the Russian army invading a country for oil is oppression? Not even counting the immense number of human rights violations committed since the start of the war.



Even the Russian ones? riiight:rolleyes:



Leftists in general are always against religious extremism, but that doesn't mean we 100% support the US occupation of Afghanistan, because we know what the real objectives are, and because it's still an imperialist conflict.
Keep reufting my posts with the bullshit "you're a nationalist/ you're a chauvinist/ blah blah blah" I don't really care lol. And we does not include me, and I'm sure a great number of others on this forum. I find you and I are not much alike. You believe in anarchy; you desire statelessness and chaos, and I do not. Communism can only be achieved through a strong, and resiliant state. Russia should not have had to invade Chechnya for anything, because they are a federal subject of the Russian Federation; they are part of Russia.

[Dire Helix]

Communism can only be achieved through a strong, and resiliant state.

You`re talking about fascism here. Fascists are the ones fetishizing strong states and order. Communists strive to achieve a stateless, classless society.


Russia should not have had to invade Chechnya for anything, because they are a federal subject of the Russian Federation; they are part of Russia.

When Russia finishes its transition into a failed state(which is only a matter of time given the Somalia levels of corruption present here and rapid degeneration of the economy and society), there will be nothing stopping entire regions like North Caucasus and Far East from falling off. What are you going to say then?

[Arlekino]

In Soviet Times Chechenias lived side by side with Russians ok. Is that because of capitalist system gave opportunity fight and kill Russians.

[Reznov]

You`re talking about fascism here. Fascists are the ones fetishizing strong states and order. Communists strive to achieve a stateless, classless society.



When Russia finishes its transition into a failed state(which is only a matter of time given the Somalia levels of corruption present here and rapid degeneration of the economy and society), there will be nothing stopping entire regions like North Caucasus and Far East from falling off. What are you going to say then?

Just to prevent you from trying to misuse what he said, he said that it was REQUIRED to ACHIEVE Communism. Not what a Communist society would be like, but what is required to achieve it. (In his opinion.)


And, what makes you think Russia will become a failed state? I am sure many said the same about America, but she is still running. And what does Somalia have to do with Russia? Were you trying to make a comparison?

[Pretty Flaco]

I'm so confused as to how Russian imperialism over oil has damn near anything to do with communism. Saying that Russia "owns" it is ridiculously nationalistic.
"Workers of the world, unite!... but not with those dirty other nations!" is how Marx put it, I believe

[Сталин]

You`re talking about fascism here. Fascists are the ones fetishizing strong states and order. Communists strive to achieve a stateless, classless society.



When Russia finishes its transition into a failed state(which is only a matter of time given the Somalia levels of corruption present here and rapid degeneration of the economy and society), there will be nothing stopping entire regions like North Caucasus and Far East from falling off. What are you going to say then?
Comrade Stalin built Russia/Soviet state into an iron fortress impregnable by all, that was communism, not fascism my friend. You of all should know; you have Iron Felix as your picture...

And Russia will very probably not collapse. Corruption is being lessened and soon minimized. The war is officially over, and Chechnya is still a part of Russia, under a man named Ramzan Kadyrov.

[Jazzhands]

Keep reufting my posts with the bullshit "you're a nationalist/ you're a chauvinist/ blah blah blah" I don't really care lol. And we does not include me, and I'm sure a great number of others on this forum. I find you and I are not much alike. You believe in anarchy; you desire statelessness and chaos, and I do not. Communism can only be achieved through a strong, and resiliant state. Russia should not have had to invade Chechnya for anything, because they are a federal subject of the Russian Federation; they are part of Russia.

So you're going to completely ignore everything I just said and not even make an attempt to refute it, and throw every form of Marxist analysis or basic theoretical knowledge out the window. See how long you last with that sort of attitude.


Comrade Stalin built Russia/Soviet state into an iron fortress impregnable by all, that was communism, not fascism my friend. You of all should know; you have Iron Felix as your picture...

Wrong. Communism can only be achieved once a classless, stateless society is built. That's kind of the essential idea of all leftist thought. You seem to have gotten your idea of communism from Glenn Beck...

[Сталин]

So you're going to completely ignore everything I just said and not even make an attempt to refute it, and throw every form of Marxist analysis or basic theoretical knowledge out the window. See how long you last with that sort of attitude.



Wrong. Communism can only be achieved once a classless, stateless society is built. That's kind of the essential idea of all leftist thought. You seem to have gotten your idea of communism from Glenn Beck...
So if Russia were a communist state still (which it sort of is, with the state controlling all major oil and media companies/ex-KGB Colonel essentially holding the reigns, and all former military command, and still several politicians from the Soviet system), would you view my argument as you do now? You sound like a hypocrite. And All communist states thusfar have shown us the exact, total and absolute opposite of a classless, stateless society. So are you really a communist? I mean you seem to deplore what communism has been depicted to be by example of Red China, the Soviet Union, the DPRK, etc, etc. It sounds like you subscribe to the ideals of anarchy, which is not the same as communism. And I don't even know who Glenn Beck is, so no, I did not get my idea of communism from him...

[Sentinel]

Сталин, according to Marxism-Leninism the state is an organ of repression, a necessary evil which has to be tolerated during a transition period known as socialism, which after the bourgeoisie as a class has been eliminated will wither away, giving way to indeed a stateless and classless society, know as communism.

Do you not study Marx and Lenin in the CPRF? Your comments in this thread certainly don't give that impression -- you seem to regard a strong state as the end goal?

I'm not being hostile, just a bit baffled.

[Nolan]

So if Russia were a communist state still (which it sort of is, with the state controlling all major oil and media companies/ex-KGB Colonel essentially holding the reigns, and all former military command, and still several politicians from the Soviet system), would you view my argument as you do now? You sound like a hypocrite. And All communist states thusfar have shown us the exact, total and absolute opposite of a classless, stateless society. So are you really a communist? I mean you seem to deplore what communism has been depicted to be by example of Red China, the Soviet Union, the DPRK, etc, etc. It sounds like you subscribe to the ideals of anarchy, which is not the same as communism. And I don't even know who Glenn Beck is, so no, I did not get my idea of communism from him...

Typical Zyuganovite. Russia now is farther from communism than ever.

Glenn Beck is a far-right nationalist and free market capitalism nut in America. He hosts a show on FOX News, which is the more conservative station.

[Сталин]

Typical Zyuganovite. Russia now is farther from communism than ever.

Glenn Beck is a far-right nationalist and free market capitalism nut in America. He hosts a show on FOX News, which is the more conservative station.
Than ever; Yes. But not so far in reality. :)

Put it in contrast with the US, EU and you will see that they are different from eachother in alignment. It's not an improvement in any sense of the word, however the situation is not a disaster, as you make it out to be. You (so I have gathered) are not Russian, you don't quite understand like I do.

[Nolan]

Than ever; Yes. But not so far in reality. :)

Put it in contrast with the US, EU and you will see that they are different from eachother in alignment. It's not an improvement in any sense of the word, however the situation is not a disaster, as you make it out to be. You (so I have gathered) are not Russian, you don't quite understand like I do.

I'm not Russian. And I'm not stupid either. Russia is a country with a deep and growing class divide. The capitalist oligarchy have been having their birthday since 1991, and can get away with anything. To say Russia still has anything to do with communism is ridiculous. It doesn't even have a red flag like China. At least they have some imagery points.

If being Russian granted one special powers, then Russians wouldn't disagree. And yet we have one of RevLeft's Russian members in here disagreeing with you.

[Сталин]

I'm not Russian. And I'm not stupid either. Russia is a country with a deep and growing class divide. The capitalist oligarchy have been having their birthday since 1991, and can get away with anything. To say Russia still has anything to do with communism is ridiculous. It doesn't even have a red flag like China. At least they have some imagery points.

If being Russian granted one special powers, then Russians wouldn't disagree. And yet we have one of RevLeft's Russian members in here disagreeing with you.
Just because he/she/they are Russian doesn't mean they have to agree with me. Some small number of Russians hate/dislike/disagree with Stalin, and many of them are not Russians, but Ukrainians and Chechens who like to claim victim status. Most Russians think he was a great leader (he was rated the third best Russian by Russians). And it doesn't matter what you think, I've looked at what you have wrote and seen nothing substantial. You have been saying the same thing now every rebuttal (and accuse me of not responding to your posts with proper rebuttals). There are capitalists in Russia. There are even MORE capitalists in China and I personally believe in North Korea. YOU are ridiculous if you do not believe Russia has anything to do with communism because we have been communists first, have lasted the longest and when we collapsed, we did not become stooges of the United States like most of the others did. If you think mere visual effects make a nation a certain ideology, go to Red Square; There you will find comrade Lenin - we have kept him preserved for all to see for almost 87 years now. Go to the Kremlin Wall Necropolis, you can see the graves of several Soviet leaders. You can also see statues of his likeness, as well as several other Soviet leaders and icons, in several parks and squares, theres even a Red star on our Air Force. Our uniforms have changed slightly, but are nonetheless reminiscent of the Soviet ones. We have a parade every year to commemorate our crushing of fascism (Stalin started this tradition), and to show the might of our military. And youth organization Komsomol has been renamed Nashi.

By the way, this is our former President:
http://www.textology.ru/pic/Putin_KGB.jpg

[Crux]

So you are a russian nationalist that claims present day russia is "close" to communism because Putin is ex-KGB?
It's telling you infer that russians who disagree with you probably are of another ethnicity and "complaining", your chauvunism is very telling.
So tell me, what do you believe communism is? Russian nationalism and a "strong state"?

[Сталин]

So you are a russian nationalist that claims present day russia is "close" to communism because Putin is ex-KGB?
It's telling you infer that russians who disagree with you probably are of another ethnicity and "complaining", your chauvunism is very telling.
So tell me, what do you believe communism is? Russian nationalism and a "strong state"?
You want some to mudak? Well you don't get any more of my time. Read my early comments and imagine some rebuttals, I can already presume what they'll be :rolleyes:.

And to clear up the record; Patriotism and Nationalism are two very different things. I am here listening to the poison of a counter revolutionary who thinks he can trash me like I'm some glupaya suka. If you hate our country so much, get out! We have history, and we have pride, and when idiots with no other excuse in mind like you presume when one is proud they are a fascist or nationalist. Get a brain, please.

[Crux]

You want some to mudak? Well you don't get any more of my time. Read my early comments and imagine some rebuttals, I can already presume what they'll be :rolleyes:.

And to clear up the record; Patriotism and Nationalism are two very different things. I am here listening to the poison of a counter revolutionary who thinks he can trash me like I'm some glupaya suka. If you hate our country so much, get out! We have history, and we have pride, and when idiots with no other excuse in mind like you presume when one is proud they are a fascist or nationalist. Get a brain, please.
I don't presume, "tovarish". Your stance on the Chechyen question is clear enough, not mention your own off comments about russians not agreeing with you possibly belonging to ethnic minorities themselfes. And now it's about "hating your country"? You prove yourself nationalist with every word. Communism is the movement of the future, not some russian national pride.

[Сталин]

I don't presume, "tovarish". Your stance on the Chechyen question is clear enough, not mention your own off comments about russians not agreeing with you possibly belonging to ethnic minorities themselfes. And now it's about "hating your country"? You prove yourself nationalist with every word. Communism is the movement of the future, not some russian national pride.
You are not my comrade, you are a counterrevolutionary, you hate the Soviet Union and you hate Russia - you slander our leaders of both present and past, and you betray your people. And I don't care what kind of person gave birth to a person such as you, the small number of Stalin haters are mostly from Ukrainian farming families, with some grudge they can't get over even though Stalin saved their ass from frying in a German crematoria. The nationalists you think of are ungrateful little traitors who call themselves Russians, but are mostly uneducated jackasses who march around beating up immigrants shouting Heil Hitler, not realizing that he despised and tried to exterminate our people. You are just a moron, who cannot refute my arguments with anything other than immature mudslinging. National pride is something that any idiot with eyes can see in looking in a Soviet, Chinese, North Korean, Vietnamese, or any other communist country for that matter. It was always there and will always be there.

[Crux]

You are not my comrade, you are a counterrevolutionary, you hate the Soviet Union and you hate Russia - you slander our leaders of both present and past, and you betray your people.You are right, I am not a nationalist, I am a marxist, so my loyalties do not lay with a nation, people or soviet bureaucracy. Now I hardly "hate" russia, that's just a false nationalist dichotomy you are trying to present.


And I don't care what kind of person gave birth to a person such as you, the small number of Stalin haters are mostly from Ukrainian farming families, with some grudge they can't get over even though Stalin saved their ass from frying in a German crematoria.
:laugh: The working class and peasants of Ukraine have no reason to be thankful towards Stalin, no. We're only lucky that the soviet leadership at the time even realized the threat of fascism. But after all it took the invasion for them to do so. Maybe you should stop mythologizing history.


The nationalists you think of are ungrateful little traitors who call themselves Russians, but are mostly uneducated jackasses who march around beating up immigrants shouting Heil Hitler, not realizing that he despised and tried to exterminate our people.
Hahaha. Brilliant. Yes, the contradiction of russian nazi's is amusing. Obviously that's a contradiction you have transcended, by making Stalin the nationalist father figure instead of Hitler. That's hardly better. Nationalism with a red flag is still nationalism.


You are just a moron, who cannot refute my arguments with anything other than immature mudslinging.
I ask questions. You are unable to respond. Although you keep giving me more arguments with your every comment.


National pride is something that any idiot with eyes can see in looking in a Soviet, Chinese, North Korean, Vietnamese, or any other communist country for that matter. It was always there and will always be there.
Yes, the deformities of those countries took many expressions. Let me ask you this, what is marxism, according to you? I prefer proletarian pride and internationalist pride.

[Sentinel]

This is at the same time entertaining and very sad. When I saw this guy's intro thread I considered bringing up the rampant homophobia problem in the CPRF. I chose not to, as I didn't want him to get instantly banned without a chance of educating himself -- prominent members of the party's youth federation have made some disgusting comments on the issue, and there have been reports of Russian so called communists bashing gays side by side with the fascists.

Now that it turns out the rest of his politics don't differ that much from the fash, and as he totally igored my post about how his positions contradict marxism-leninism, I really don't care anymore. I only wonder if the majority of the party is as bad as him, if so there is little hope for the proletariat of Russia, not to mention those of Russia's neighbours that are considered 'part of Russia'. :(

[Kiev Communard]

This is at the same time entertaining and very sad. When I saw this guy's intro thread I considered bringing up the rampant homophobia problem in the CPRF. I chose not to, as I didn't want him to get instantly banned without a chance of educating himself -- prominent members of the party's youth federation have made some disgusting comments on the issue, and there have been reports of Russian so called communists bashing gays side by side with the fascists.

Now that it turns out the rest of his politics don't differ that much from the fash, and as he totally igored my post about how his positions contradict marxism-leninism, I really don't care anymore. I only wonder if the majority of the party is as bad as him, if so there is little hope for the proletariat of Russia, not to mention those of Russia's neighbours that are considered 'part of Russia'. :(

The "general line" of CPRF would be considered social conservatism (pro-welfare state) with heavy taste of National Bolshevism, were they based in some other country, but in post-Soviet states this very blend of ideology is considered "communism" :(. I think current leadership of CPRF would have denounced even Brezhnev as "internationalist ultra-left ignoring Russian question", while even CPSU of 1970s would have most definitely condemned that party as chauvinist.

[Honggweilo]

this, is the difference between the RCWP-RPC and the CPRF

[Dire Helix]

And Russia will very probably not collapse. Corruption is being lessened and soon minimized.

Russia sinks lower in global corruption rating

Russia has slipped to 154th place in Transparency International's 2010 Corruption Index, down 8 from last year, the organization announced on Tuesday.

Denmark, New Zealand and Singapore tie for first place, while the bottom rungs are held by Iraq (175), Afghanistan (176) and Somalia (178), according to Transparency International.

http://en.rian.ru/russia/20101026/161091496.html


And youth organization Komsomol has been renamed NashiKomsomol was disbanded in 1991. And Nashi don`t consider themselves successors to Komsomol or even identify as communists. Next you`re going to claim that United Russia are successors to RSDLP(b).


There you will find comrade Lenin - we have kept him preserved for all to see for almost 87 years now. Go to the Kremlin Wall Necropolis, you can see the graves of several Soviet leaders.Someone here has either not been to Russia in the past 20 years or just hasn`t left his cave much. Both the Mausoleum and the graveyard have been coming under a lot of attack these past two decades(and especially recently) from liberals, monarchists and more importantly state authorities urging to remove the monuments to the "main terrorists of the 20th century". So, yeah, they are still there. Just probably not for much longer.


Our uniforms have changed slightly, but are nonetheless reminiscent of the Soviet ones.So are the uniforms of most former Soviet republics. So what?


We have a parade every year to commemorate our crushing of fascismNaturally. The regime in Russia loves to claim Soviet achievements for themselves and disassociate them from socialism. It`s always we won the war and we sent man into space, but they(communists) established a totalitarian regime and killed billions of people.

Anyhow, I fail to see how the few remaining(and getting fewer) socialist symbols from the Soviet era relate to the social and political structure of the modern day Russia.

[Kiev Communard]

this, is the difference between the RCWP-RPC and the CPRF

Yes, the RCWP-RPC is what one may call the real ideological successor to old CPSU.

[Ravachol]

Hahaha is this guy for real? Look you guys our uniforms are almost the same as those of the late USSR and Comrade Putin was president here and he was in the KGB! This must surely mean that Russian nationalism is a force working towards a classless, stateless society!

Honestly man, this shit is about as wacky as the Limonov crowd...

[Kiev Communard]

Komsomol was disbanded in 1991. And Nashi don`t consider themselves successors to Komsomol or even identify as communists. Next you`re going to claim that United Russia are successors to RSDLP(b).

Yes, this point about Nashi being "Komsomol successors" struck me as especially out-of-touch. In fact, Nashi are known for their clerical-fascist and generally anti-communist views and activities.

[Patchd]

Please don't tell me what to defend. That soil has been a part of Russia for centuries. Now some imperialist islamic separatists decide they will take it from us? So you say there should be no such thing as territorial integrity? I'm sorry, I don't buy into that stateless anarchism garbage... If I had one wish; it would be Stalin took care of them before Putin did, and if you did your research, you would know he tried ever so hard to.
No actually, the Russian Empire conquered the territory in the early 19th century, so by 'centuries', you just mean 2, and even then, you'll still have to admit that you're defending the territorial claims made by the Russian 19th century imperialists.

I doubt you even know what Anarchism is, based on your lack of knowledge around the subject of your own ideology and anti-imperialism itself. I'm not saying anything in support of religious militants before you go asserting that I do.

[Wanted Man]

Hahaha is this guy for real? Look you guys our uniforms are almost the same as those of the late USSR and Comrade Putin was president here and he was in the KGB! This must surely mean that Russian nationalism is a force working towards a classless, stateless society!

Honestly man, this shit is about as wacky as the Limonov crowd...

To be honest, I suspect it's actually Sankara.

[Thirsty Crow]

It is not as if Russia were oppressing their people in anyway whatsoever - they brought the war on themselves and they were responsible for the attrocities that took place during the war. I would be happy though if these raving lunatics stopped trying to segregate this land from Russia. And I'm not supporting the economic motives, I'm supporting the war; and the other Russians fighting religious extremism.

Call me what you want; it doesn't change what I am.
Yeah, it does not change the fact that you are a nationalist lunatic.
If this bloke does not deserve to be restricted, then I don't know who does.


Than ever; Yes. But not so far in reality. :)

Put it in contrast with the US, EU and you will see that they are different from eachother in alignment. It's not an improvement in any sense of the word, however the situation is not a disaster, as you make it out to be. You (so I have gathered) are not Russian, you don't quite understand like I do.

Holy... shit.

[the last donut of the night]

Chechnya doesn't deserve anything. That country would be a hotspot for terrorist activity and a haven for the fascist system known as islamic fundamentalism. It is just as evil as zionist or nazi ideologies, and Stalin himself took on the task of quelling these bastards. They've committed gross crimes against the Russian people and as we all know, in their sister states of South Asia; if you are not a muslim, don't conform to their religious laws, you will be persecuted.

hahahhahahah you're actually insane, aren't you

[Crux]

Yes, the RCWP-RPC is what one may call the real ideological successor to old CPSU.
What does that mean concretely?
Oh and Stalinist Stalin here is probably not insane, just a nationalist. And obviously without any debating manners. I see a restriction in his future.

[Kiev Communard]

What does that mean concretely?

They are what one may call "left-wing Brezhnevists". They condemn Maoism and Hoxhaism, but also Titoism, Eurocommunism and what they call "right-wing deviations" in old USSR (Khruschev's governance, Kosygin's 1965 reforms, etc.). They still maintain that socialism had existed in former Soviet camp up to perestroika, albeit "early" one. Their view of Stalin is rather uncritical, even though they largely avoid falling into cultish extremes. Of course, they are strongly against any forms of Libertarian Communism/Anarchism, Left Communism or Autonomism, and continue on Trotsky-bashing. Their internal organization is rather bureaucratized. To sum up, quite resembling old-style CPSU of 1970s, only without its political power.

[Noinu]

Than ever; Yes. But not so far in reality. :)

Put it in contrast with the US, EU and you will see that they are different from eachother in alignment. It's not an improvement in any sense of the word, however the situation is not a disaster, as you make it out to be. You (so I have gathered) are not Russian, you don't quite understand like I do.


Of course there are differences between the EU and Russia, but that doesn't make Russia anymore communist than any other country that isn't in the European Union. You don't prove any point with that.

And as far as I gather from your last sentence, you're basically saying that because someone isn't Russian, they cannot understand Russia? Brain, oh, brain where did thou goest.

Anyway back to your notion of the Chechen Republic belonging to Russia; there is no way even remotely possible to argue that Chechnya would have been a part of Russia pre1780s. Actually they had for a long time been a part of the Ottoman Empire, so basically with your logic one could say they're just as Turkish as they are Russians.
Oh and by the way, Russia was occupied by Mongols for a while, so I guess you're are a part of Mongolia then...or did you forget to go to that specific history class.

And what on Earth has Putin got to do with anything here?

[Nolan]

The working class and peasants of Ukraine have no reason to be thankful towards Stalin, no. We're only lucky that the soviet leadership at the time even realized the threat of fascism. But after all it took the invasion for them to do so. Maybe you should stop mythologizing history.

Riiiight.

[Crux]

Riiiight.
Such thing's can happen when you shoot off your generals, and particularly those that are opposed to a non-aggression pact with the Nazi's. But this is Off Topic.

[hatzel]

How dare those Ukrainian farmers complain at being starved to death for the good of the 'revolution'. Such evil little anti-proletarian imperialistic bastards there were!

In other news I heard Alaskan oil reserves belong to Mother Russia, too...and how long until Finland is returned to its rightful owners, the mighty tsars, so that Nokia's profits can fund the undeniably communist Russian state?

[Rafiq]

God, this guy is making an ass out of himself.

I've always been leaning toward Marxism-Leninism, but this guy is just a Nationalistic Asshole.

The Russian state right now, may be slightly less Capitalistic then America, but it is still Capitalist.

I think this Tankie is just thinking "Communism" is having a Strong Army and a Leader.

Maybe if he read some Marx, or Lenin, he would realize how far away he is from Marxism.

[Sentinel]

Are you still there, Сталин? If so, please explain how you can claim to uphold Lenin while totally contradicting his views?

Have you read the State and the Revolution, for example? Or anything at all by Lenin?

Or is reading a bourgeois decadence or something?

[Rafiq]

And what on Earth has Putin got to do with anything here?

LOL I think because he looks like a Red Military leader in that picture, he is trying to show that there former president Looked like a Communist.

Like Great Vladimir Barack Ulyonov LeBama

http://media.gatewaync.com/wsj/photos/2008/10/20/obama.jpg

[hatzel]

LOL I think because he looks like a Red Military leader in that picture, he is trying to show that there former president Looked like a Communist.

"We are surely communist, as our leaders were born before 1991, so are therefore communists"

Great argument from the lad...

[Tavarisch_Mike]

To be honest, I suspect it's actually Sankara.

Haha heres the answer!

[Pretty Flaco]

Haha heres the answer!

Soon he'll be suggesting that we use crickets as a global food source.

[Сталин]

God, this guy is making an ass out of himself.

I've always been leaning toward Marxism-Leninism, but this guy is just a Nationalistic Asshole.

The Russian state right now, may be slightly less Capitalistic then America, but it is still Capitalist.

I think this Tankie is just thinking "Communism" is having a Strong Army and a Leader.

Maybe if he read some Marx, or Lenin, he would realize how far away he is from Marxism.
You're one to talk, muslim oppressor.


Are you still there, Сталин? If so, please explain how you can claim to uphold Lenin while totally contradicting his views?

Have you read the State and the Revolution, for example? Or anything at all by Lenin?

Or is reading a bourgeois decadence or something?
I'm not contradicting his views. His ideology progressed. Isn't that what you believe in right? Stalin changed his system to work better.


Yeah, it does not change the fact that you are a nationalist lunatic.
If this bloke does not deserve to be restricted, then I don't know who does.



Holy... shit.
If I get restricted, then thats just that; you've proven that you people know nothing of how successful communism works and that you don't have the balls to assert your ideals without hiding behind a moderator.:rolleyes:


To be honest, I suspect it's actually Sankara.
Who is that? Stop accusing me of stupid shit, if you don't want to debate, save me time.


No actually, the Russian Empire conquered the territory in the early 19th century, so by 'centuries', you just mean 2, and even then, you'll still have to admit that you're defending the territorial claims made by the Russian 19th century imperialists.

I doubt you even know what Anarchism is, based on your lack of knowledge around the subject of your own ideology and anti-imperialism itself. I'm not saying anything in support of religious militants before you go asserting that I do.
Two centuries, whatever, it was Soviet Territory; there. I don't give a flying fuck what anarchism is; I know what I need to know about it to understand that it's a pipe dream, and a retarded concept at that.


Russia sinks lower in global corruption rating

Russia has slipped to 154th place in Transparency International's 2010 Corruption Index, down 8 from last year, the organization announced on Tuesday.

Denmark, New Zealand and Singapore tie for first place, while the bottom rungs are held by Iraq (175), Afghanistan (176) and Somalia (178), according to Transparency International.

http://en.rian.ru/russia/20101026/161091496.html

Komsomol was disbanded in 1991. And Nashi don`t consider themselves successors to Komsomol or even identify as communists. Next you`re going to claim that United Russia are successors to RSDLP(b).

Someone here has either not been to Russia in the past 20 years or just hasn`t left his cave much. Both the Mausoleum and the graveyard have been coming under a lot of attack these past two decades(and especially recently) from liberals, monarchists and more importantly state authorities urging to remove the monuments to the "main terrorists of the 20th century". So, yeah, they are still there. Just probably not for much longer.

So are the uniforms of most former Soviet republics. So what?

Naturally. The regime in Russia loves to claim Soviet achievements for themselves and disassociate them from socialism. It`s always we won the war and we sent man into space, but they(communists) established a totalitarian regime and killed billions of people.

Anyhow, I fail to see how the few remaining(and getting fewer) socialist symbols from the Soviet era relate to the social and political structure of the modern day Russia.
What the fuck in gods name are you talking about???? Nashi openly identify's itself as an anti-Fascist movement?? You either are extremely lazy and didn't research, or you're sources are as useful as a piece of dog shit... And just because they want to stop preserving Lenin doesn't change the fact that he's still there, fuck you have weird logic. and the entire spiel with the uniforms was some kid saying China gets "imagery points" for looking communist.


Yes, this point about Nashi being "Komsomol successors" struck me as especially out-of-touch. In fact, Nashi are known for their clerical-fascist and generally anti-communist views and activities.
I answered this before, and I wasn't implying that they're successors, they're an antifa movement identifying with United Russia. Again, did you find this info on the wall of a bathroom stall?


this, is the difference between the RCWP-RPC and the CPRF
The RCWP-RPC and CPRF both identify with the same types of people... There are probably more Stalinists in the RCWP then there are in the CPRF, do your homework, maybe then come back and talk to me.

[Sentinel]

I'm not contradicting his views. His ideology progressed. Isn't that what you believe in right? Stalin changed his system to work better.


Under Stalin the politics of the USSR were changed, yes. I would hardly call it progressing though, that's moving forward. The word you are looking for is regression. But for all of their faults I still recognise the anti-revisionists (stalinists) as communists.

You, however, have entirely abandoned the internationalism, the view on the revolutionary state, and if you indeed support Putin also the socialism that Lenin stood for. Your politics are entirely different, as a matter of fact the diametrical opposite of everything he stood for.

Actually, if you go and see in the mausoleum, I'm fairly sure you'll see him spinning around in there so hard that there's a risk that the friction will set the building on fire.

You are not a marxist-leninist, or even a stalinist -- you're not a communist at all in any sense of the word. I really hope that your party changes it's name soon, as that of communism certainly has been discredited enough.

[Kiev Communard]

I answered this before, and I wasn't implying that they're successors, they're an antifa movement identifying with United Russia. Again, did you find this info on the wall of a bathroom stall?

Do you honestly think that Nashi are antifa????!!!!! :laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:: laugh::laugh:

You're really delusional.

[Ravachol]

If I get restricted, then thats just that; you've proven that you people know nothing of how successful communism works and that you don't have the balls to assert your ideals without hiding behind a moderator.:rolleyes:


...

really the only reply that comes to mind is: lolwut?



Two centuries, whatever, it was Soviet Territory; there. I don't give a flying fuck what anarchism is; I know what I need to know about it to understand that it's a pipe dream, and a retarded concept at that.


Pray tell, what are the tenets of the 'anarchist pipe dream'? :rolleyes:



What the fuck in gods name are you talking about???? Nashi openly identify's itself as an anti-Fascist movement??


Haha don't make a fool out of yourself. Nashi are vile nationalist scum, the only reason they call themselves 'antifascist' is because they assault Nazbols (who are in opposition to the United Russia governement), but there have been plenty of actions by Nashi attacking Anarchists and dedicated Antifa as well. If self-identifying as antifascists is enough to qualify one as such then you should welcome the Dutch/German 'Autonomous Nationalists' with open arms :rolleyes:



I answered this before, and I wasn't implying that they're successors, they're an antifa movement identifying with United Russia. Again, did you find this info on the wall of a bathroom stall?


You managed to contradict yourself in one scentence.... wow..

[Сталин]

Do you honestly think that Nashi are antifa????!!!!! :laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:: laugh::laugh:

You're really delusional.
Do some research for yourself, take some initiative, if you don't want to, then fuck a deer.

Most of you unfortunate immature, pseudo-activists are unable to accept facts as they are. You allow your bullshit dissolution of the state wetdreams cloud your perception on reality and for that I suggest you take a break from your computers and seek some serious psychological help. It might do you good.

And user sentinel: Just because I don't identify with your hopeless, and futile chaotic and lawless nightmare society that is anarchism doesn't mean I do not stand for the true definition and values communism was built upon. Communism cannot exist without the state. And there is no merit in slandering the few individuals in history like J.V. Stalin who helped build the ideology you take for granted. You're a disgrace; nothing more, nothing less.

[hatzel]

Communism cannot exist without the state

:laugh:

[Kiev Communard]

Do some research for yourself, take some initiative, if you don't want to, then fuck a deer.

Most of you unfortunate immature, pseudo-activists are unable to accept facts as they are. You allow your bullshit dissolution of the state wetdreams cloud your perception on reality and for that I suggest you take a break from your computers and seek some serious psychological help. It might do you good.

Considering the fact that in Russia it is CPRF that is "pseudo-activist" - basically doing nothing while denouncing Marxism as "non-national and outdated", it is you who seem to be in urgent need of "some serious psychological help".

[Sentinel]

And user sentinel: Just because I don't identify with your hopeless, and futile chaotic and lawless nightmare society that is anarchism doesn't mean I do not stand for the true definition and values communism was built upon. Communism cannot exist without the state. And there is no merit in slandering the few individuals in history like J.V. Stalin who helped build the ideology you take for granted. You're a disgrace; nothing more, nothing less.


Except that I'm not attacking your views from an anarchist point of view, but from a marxist-leninist one. It's clear that you haven't read anything Marx or Lenin wrote, as communism for you equals Russian nationalism and a strong state, possibly with a welfare program.

That's not communism at all, just like I told you before communism is a classless and stateless society which will according to Marx be achieved after a transition period with a socialist state which withers away after the bourgeoisie has been eliminated as a class.

In no way is a strong, nationalist state the ultimate goal of communists of any kind of school. Even Stalin, who saw himself as a marxist, would have disagreed with you on that.

Face it: you aren't a communist. As the discussion is going around in circles there's no point in continuing it. All I have to say to you is: either read Marx and the other communist authors and become a communist, or quit using the label. Bye.

[Q]

Am I glad this guy is banned now. The only reason he calls himself a "communist" is because Russia once was ruled by the CPSU. What a complete reactionary douche. I don't hope his views were representative of the majority of the CPRF :(

[Die Neue Zeit]

They are what one may call "left-wing Brezhnevists". They condemn Maoism and Hoxhaism, but also Titoism, Eurocommunism and what they call "right-wing deviations" in old USSR (Khruschev's governance, Kosygin's 1965 reforms, etc.). They still maintain that socialism had existed in former Soviet camp up to perestroika, albeit "early" one. Their view of Stalin is rather uncritical, even though they largely avoid falling into cultish extremes. Of course, they are strongly against any forms of Libertarian Communism/Anarchism, Left Communism or Autonomism, and continue on Trotsky-bashing. Their internal organization is rather bureaucratized. To sum up, quite resembling old-style CPSU of 1970s, only without its political power.

Despite the last three sentences, I still say they're the best lot to for non-"tankie" leftists to do entry work. I'd say Russian workers are more interested in political freedom for their class struggle than in re-examining the darker stuff of the Stalin regime. One could say that the RCWP-RPC view of Stalin is "moderate conservative" (i.e., don't praise, but strongly defend against criticisms to the point of denouncing them).

BTW, to what extent does the RCWP-RPC have a minimum-maximum program?

[Sentinel]

The picture I've gotten of the RCWP-RPC is that they're economically speaking authentic socialists, but with horrible social politics. At least one member who was banned a few months ago for rampant homophobia said that they don't consider homophobia to be a problem like 'you do in the west'.

So I guess they want a society with equal rights for 90% of the population, then. :rolleyes:

[Rafiq]

You're one to talk, muslim oppressor.


Who exactly have I oppressed? :laugh:

[Die Neue Zeit]

The picture I've gotten of the RCWP-RPC is that they're economically speaking authentic socialists, but with horrible social politics. At least one member who was banned a few months ago for rampant homophobia said that they don't consider homophobia to be a problem like 'you do in the west'.

So I guess they want a society with equal rights for 90% of the population, then. :rolleyes:

Given the liberalized and utter disaster here in the West that is Identity "Politics," I'd suggest the RCWP-RPC really tone down the homophobia, but when I said "moderate conservative" re. Stalin, I had this social compromise in mind:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radical_center_(politics)


Therefore, Lind argues, the American "radical" centrism of today is simply the adamant pursuit for a return to the once-mainstream political principle of New Deal economic progressivism coupled with a moderate cultural conservatism. This modest cultural conservatism would be exemplified on the political stage simply by the "radical centrist" politician's refusal to politicize or advocate socially-liberal issues like abortion or gay rights. However, the radical centrist politician might spurn any influence or pressure coming from the Religious Right and other socially conservative groups (i.e. pro-life advocates, school prayer advocates, etc.)

[I'd certainly refuse to advance bourgeois shit like gender equality in the corporate boardrooms.]

[Honggweilo]

LOL I think because he looks like a Red Military leader in that picture, he is trying to show that there former president Looked like a Communist.

Like Great Vladimir Barack Ulyonov LeBama

http://media.gatewaync.com/wsj/photos/2008/10/20/obama.jpg

well he is the peoples advocate!

[Kiev Communard]

Am I glad this guy is banned now. The only reason he calls himself a "communist" is because Russia once was ruled by the CPSU. What a complete reactionary douche. I don't hope his views were representative of the majority of the CPRF :(

Trust me comrade, the views of the majority of CPRF members are even more reactionary.

[Die Neue Zeit]

I thought the CPRF had four or more tendencies: Zyuganovites, Dengists, left soc-dems, and "anti-revisionists."

[Kiev Communard]

I thought the CPRF had four or more tendencies: Zyuganovites, Dengists, left soc-dems, and "anti-revisionists."

Left SDs were basically purged amid accusations of "Neo-Trotskyism" :lol:

[Dire Helix]

I thought the CPRF had four or more tendencies: Zyuganovites, Dengists, left soc-dems, and "anti-revisionists."

You`re giving them way too much credit. CPRF is not an actual political party to have such things as tendencies.

[Die Neue Zeit]

Um, parties have internal tendencies, you know. :glare:

[Noinu]

LOL I think because he looks like a Red Military leader in that picture, he is trying to show that there former president Looked like a Communist.

Like Great Vladimir Barack Ulyonov LeBama

http://media.gatewaync.com/wsj/photos/2008/10/20/obama.jpg


My goodness x3333

[Born in the USSR]

I think Chechnya, Dagestan and other Caucasus republics deserve to be free

This is a ractionary idea.

Marxism is far from understaning of internationalism as a union of local nationalists.Quate the contrary,marxism sees the progress in the merger and assimilation of nations,wich can occur only around large historical nations. National equality from the marxist viewpoint means equality of people of different nationalities within the state.At the same time, marxism, as a science, is far from being able to equate the great historical nations and the various national rubble.

Not a partitition but a reunification - this is the most common interest of workers and of all democratic elements. Reunion is the most revolutionary, radical, and the class slogan of our time.

[Crux]

[I'd certainly refuse to advance bourgeois shit like gender equality in the corporate boardrooms.]
And in doing so you break class lines and solidarize with the men of the boardrooms. I'd like to expand that argument but this is probably best done in the discrimination forum.

[Die Neue Zeit]

I await the discussion:

http://www.revleft.com/vb/full-belly-thesis-t141396/index.html

[ddof5]

i agree with stalin. chechnya has been russian land forever, and in no way should it be given to those chechens (go live with them for a bit and you will know why everyone hates them)

[Noinu]

i agree with stalin. chechnya has been russian land forever, and in no way should it be given to those chechens (go live with them for a bit and you will know why everyone hates them)

LOL you're crazy.

[Sentinel]

i agree with stalin. chechnya has been russian land forever, and in no way should it be given to those chechens (go live with them for a bit and you will know why everyone hates them)

I hope we didn't roll away the ban cannon after Сталин yet..?

The Russian nationalist crap should be enough already, but here it's also combined with blatant and outright racism.