Isreal, the new Reich

[Rastafari]

Well, Isreal is trying to pass laws making a Palestinian married to an Isreali in Isreal either live seperately from their spouse or have both of them leave the country. They say it is to foil terrorists from getting into the country. Now, I have been against Zionism and the Isreali state for a long time, but this woke me up.

If I am the only person who can see startling similarities between the course Isreal is heading down and Germany of the 1930's, then maybe you should read Theo Herzel's works, too. To me, they are very remniscient of Mein Kampf in places, calling for a "Sudatenland" for all Jews to live in exclusively that was to be seized and carved out of inferior peoples' lands.

But Isreal has God on their Side, don't they?

[scott thesocialist]

yeah i read that, its totally out of order, what right do they have saying that the can't live together!!!!!!!!!!
they maybe in love and because of a small amount of people everyone is victimized!!!! its against human rights and its racism!!!!!!!!

[Invader Zim]

Originally posted by [email protected] 1 2003, 05:36 AM
Well, Isreal is trying to pass laws making a Palestinian married to an Isreali in Isreal either live seperately from their spouse or have both of them leave the country. They say it is to foil terrorists from getting into the country. Now, I have been against Zionism and the Isreali state for a long time, but this woke me up.

If I am the only person who can see startling similarities between the course Isreal is heading down and Germany of the 1930's, then maybe you should read Theo Herzel's works, too. To me, they are very remniscient of Mein Kampf in places, calling for a "Sudatenland" for all Jews to live in exclusively that was to be seized and carved out of inferior peoples' lands.

But Isreal has God on their Side, don't they?
Yes thats right completely identical... they only have to build gas chambers and invade Poland and who would know the differance...

[/sarcasm]

Yes its bang out of order what they are doing, it is also bang out of order to call a nation polulated mostly by Jews a "new reich". Its is one of the most insensative things I have heard for quite a while well done. :rolleyes:

[Rastafari]

its the irony!!!

[il Commy]

You can not call Israel a Reich yet. And I say "yet" because things here are getting worse every day, and a facist party coming to power is a very possible scenario.

But inside Israel we still managed to keep many of the democratic rights, a situation which the ruling class tries to fix. The situation of israeli-arabs is far diffrent than the situation of the jews in the 30's. Though it becomes similar every day, I'd say the conditions of arabs in Israel today are similar to the conditions of jews in Germany a small time before Hitler came to power.

The conquered palestinans in Gaza and the West Bank are a totaly diffrent situation, more similar to India under british occupation, Poland under german occupation etc.


I would like to update you about the recent racist attack on israeli-arabs - the attack in the media and police on 'Abna Al-Balad' ("Sons of the Country") movement. The movment is an arab-nationalist movment who demends a united state from Jordan to the sea, capitalist and democratic. The media reported it encourages young children to be "Shahids" (suicide terrorists), which is clearly untrue since the movment is atheistic and not islamic. The media also said that the movment supports the expellsion of Jews which is also untrue, they want the jews to stay in this country as a minority. The police has stopped the movment's children summer camp.

This attack on the arab population comes clearly because of the strong social struggle against the goverment's destructive socio-economic policy. They want to use racism as an excuse to stop the struggle, they want to divide the working-class, they want to use racism as an excuse to say "this is not the time for a social strugle!".
They are hypocritics, since they only attack arabs who say "The Entire Palestine!" and not jews who say "The Entire Israel-Land!".

Though marxists naturaly disagree with "Abna Al-Balad", we must protect it as a movment of the arab population. And further more, if they now attack the nationalists who calls to abolish the state of Israel, the next will be the comunists who calls to abolish th state of Israel (and all the rest too).

[Socialsmo o Muerte]

Very good point Rastafari. I don't think you can compare it to the Nazi Reich as a whole, but that aspect is very similar. But who can stop a country backed so much by USA? There's nothing stopping Israel at the moment. The Palestinian freedom fighters continue to fight but get labelled war mongering terrorists by the media and the tables are completely turned then.

What can be done.

[Morpheus]

Originally posted by [email protected] 1 2003, 02:46 PM
Yes thats right completely identical... they only have to build gas chambers and invade Poland and who would know the differance...
It's more like Nazi Germany in 1935, not 1940. I read an interview with Ariel Sharon in which he admitted to being a "Judeau-Nazi." There are many similarities to the Third Reich, although it's probably more of a settler-colonialist state like Apartheid South Africa which is still pretty bad.

[il Commy]

Originally posted by [email protected] 2 2003, 12:44 AM
I read an interview with Ariel Sharon in which he admitted to being a "Judeau-Nazi."
Not possible even in your wildest dreams. Sharon such as any israeli prime minister will never (ever!) compare himself with the Nazis.

He may have said someting in a cynical way that you didn't understand correctly. Maybe he was laughing at Yeshayahu Leibovich who said everyone who served in the occupied territories is a Judeau-Nazi.

No way, no f*cking possible way that Sharon actually called himself a Nazi. I'm not saying he isn't, I'm saying he'll never admit it.

[redstar2000]

The law was passed.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/low/middle_east/3111727.stm

I agree with il Commy that Israeli politicians are very careful about their language. Some years ago, a rightist in the Knesset use the phrase "final solution" of the Palestinian problem...and the uproar was so great that he was expelled from the Knesset.

I think if you go back to the 1940s, you'll find that a few far-right Zionists did use language that was very close to the Nazis...but now, no.

American politicians have developed an entire "code" of terminology to replace the racist language that they once used. Everyone here knows that "urban underclass" refers to those with an "excess" of melanin and a shortage of income.

It would not surprise me to learn that Israeli politicians have developed a linguistic equivalent.

http://www.sawu.org/redgreenleft/YaBBImages/smoking.gif
___________________________

U.S. GET OUT OF IRAQ NOW!
___________________________

"...a disgusting and frightening website"
The RedStar2000 Papers (http://www.sawu.org/redstar2000)
A site about communist ideas

[il Commy]

Originally posted by [email protected] 2 2003, 01:08 PM
Some years ago, a rightist in the Knesset use the phrase "final solution" of the Palestinian problem...and the uproar was so great that he was expelled from the Knesset.

I think if you go back to the 1940s, you'll find that a few far-right Zionists did use language that was very close to the Nazis...but now, no.
Never heard about that incident. Maybe it was Kahane, he and his party ("Kach") were expelled from the Knesset, forbidden to stand on elections and were declared as a terrorist organization because they were too racist. Kahane supported a forced transfer of the arab population outside of Israel and the destruction of democracy. But I never heard about him speaking about a "final solution".

The facist zionists you were talking about are 'Betar' (Joseph Trumpeldor Youth League) - founded by Jabotinsky and led by Begin in the 20's-30's. They supported the idea of "The Entire Israel Land for The Entire Jewish People". Japotnski called for mlitarism and the foundation of a strong jewish army. Begin wore dark-brown shirts, army boots and had a moustache. They even called facist Italy "a progressive country" for a certain period of time. A few translated quotes from their anthem:

"In blood and in sweat
Our race shall be found
Genius and generouse and cruel;"

"Because silence is slime
Abandon blood and soul
For the hidden glory;"

"To die or to conquer the moutain!"


Today they slightly hide their facism, but they're still facists. Here's a link to their site:
http://www.betar.org.il/english/index.htm

[FabFabian]

I don't know...what do you call a gov't that denies the basic rights of the original inhabiters of the land? What do you call an army that kills Palestinian children during a cease fire and they get no reprisals for it? How about evil? The Third Reich was evil and so is the Israeli gov't. So the Israeli gov't doesn't have ovens to despose of their problem, I guess they lack that German sense of efficiency. :rolleyes:

[Morpheus]

Excerpt from 1982 Interview with Ariel Sharon

December17 , 1982 interview with Ariel Sharon when he was Israel's Defence Minister. The interview was originally published in the Israeli newspaper Davar.

* * *

"You can call me anything you like. Call me a monster or a murderer. Just note that I don't hate Arabs. On the contrary. Personally, I am much more at ease with them, and especially with the Bedouin, than with Jews. Those Arabs we haven't yet spoilt are proud people, they are irrational, cruel and generous. It's the Yids that are all twisted. In order to straighten them out you have to first bend them sharply the other way. That, in brief, is my whole ideology.

"Call Israel by any name you like, call it a Judeo-Nazi state as does Leibowitz. Why not? Better a live Judeo-Nazi than a dead saint. I don't care whether I am like Ghadafi. I am not after the admiration of the gentiles. I don't need their love. I don't need to be loved by Jews like you either. I have to live, and I intend to ensure that my children will live as well. With or without the blessing of the Pope and the other religious leaders from the New York Times. I will destroy anyone who will raise a hand against my children, I will destroy him and his children, with or without our famous purity of arms. I don't care if he is Christian, Muslim, Jewish or pagan. History teaches us that he who won't kill will be killed by others. That is an iron law.

"Even if you'll prove to me by mathematical means that the present war in Lebanon is a dirty immoral war, I don't care. Moreover, even if you will prove to me that we have not achieved and will not achieve any of our aims in Lebanon, that we will neither create a friendly regime in Lebanon nor destroy the Syrians or even the PLO, even then I don't care. It was still worth it. Even if Galilee is shelled again by Katyushas in a year's time, I don't really care. We shall start another war, kill and destroy more and more, until they will have had enough. And do you know why it is all worth it? Because it seems that this war has made us more unpopular among the so-called civilised world.

"We'll hear no more of that nonsense about the unique Jewish morality, the moral lessons of the holocaust or about the Jews who were supposed to have emerged from the gas chambers pure and virtuous. No more of that. The destruction of Eyn Hilwe (and it's a pity we did not wipe out that hornet's nest completely!), the healthy bombardment of Beirut and that tiny massacre (can you call 500 Arabs a massacre?) in their camps which we should have committed with our own delicate hands rather than let the Phalangists do it, all these good deeds finally killed the bullshit talk about a unique people and of being a light upon the nations. No more uniqueness and no more sweetness and light. Good riddance." ...

"I personally don't want to be any better than Khomeini or Brezhnev or Ghadafi or Assad or Mrs. Thatcher, or even Harry Truman who killed half a million Japanese with two fine bombs. I only want to be smarter than they are, quicker and more efficient, not better or more beautiful than they are. Tell me, do the baddies of this world have a bad time? If anyone tries to touch them, the evil men cut his hands and legs off. They hunt and catch whatever they feel like eating. They don't suffer from indigestion and are not punished by Heaven. I want Israel to join that club. Maybe the world will then at last begin to fear me instead of feeling sorry for me. Maybe they will start to tremble, to fear my madness instead of admiring my nobility. Thank god for that. Let them tremble, let them call us a mad state. Let them understand that we are a wild country, dangerous to our surroundings, not normal, that we might go crazy if one of our children is murdered - just one! That we might go wild and burn all the oil fields in the Middle East! If anything would happen to your child, god forbid, you would talk like I do. Let them be aware in Washington, Moscow, Damascus and China that if one of our ambassadors is shot, or even a consul or the most junior embassy official, we might start World War Three just like that !" ...

"Let me tell me [sic] what is the most important thing, the sweetest fruit of the war in Lebanon: It is that now they don't just hate Israel. Thanks to us, they now also hate all those Feinschmecker Jews in Paris, London, New York, Frankfurt and Montreal, in all their holes. At last they hate all these nice Yids, who say they are different from us, that they are not Israeli thugs, that they are different Jews, clean and decent. Just like the assimilated Jew in Vienna and Berlin begged the anti-Semite not to confuse him with the screaming, stinking Ostjude, who had smuggled himself into that cultural environment out of the dirty ghettos of Ukraine and Poland. It won't help them, those clean Yids, just as it did not help them in Vienna and Berlin. Let them shout that they condemn Israel, that they are all right, that they did not want and don't want to hurt a fly, that they always prefer being slaughtered to fighting, that they have taken it upon themselves to teach the gentiles how to be good Christians by always turning the other cheek. It won't do them any good. Now they are getting it there because of us, and I am telling you, it is a pleasure to watch.

"They are the same Yids who persuaded the gentiles to capitulate to the bastards in Vietnam, to give it in to Khomeini, to Brezhnev, to feel sorry for Sheikh Yamani because of his tough childhood, to make love not war. Or rather, to do neither, and instead write a thesis on love and war. We are through with all that. The Yid has been rejected, not only did he crucify Jesus, but he also crucified Arafat in Sabra and Shatila. They are being identified with us and that's a good thing! Their cemeteries are being desecrated, their synagogues are set on fire, all their old nicknames are being revived, they are being expelled from the best clubs, people shoot into their ethnic restaurants murdering small children, forcing them to remove any sign showing them to be Jews, forcing them to move and change their profession.

"Soon their palaces will be smeared with the slogan: Yids, go to Palestine! And you know what? They will go to Palestine because they will have no other choice! All this is a bonus we received from the Lebanese war. Tell me, wasn't it worth it?

"Soon we will hit on good times. The Jews will start arriving, the Israelis will stop emigrating and those who already emigrated willreturn. Those who had chosen assimilation will finally understand that it won't help them to try and be the conscience of the world. The 'conscience of the world' will have to understand through its arse what it could not get into its head. The gentiles have always felt sick of the Yids and their conscience, and now the Yids will have only one option: to come home, all of them, fast, to install thick steel doors, to build a strong fence, to have submachine guns positioned at every corner of their fence here and to fight like devils against anyone who dares to make a sound in this region. And if anyone even raises his hand against us we'll take away half his land and burn the other half, including the oil. We might use nuclear arms. We'll go on until he no longer feels like it...

"...You probably want to know whether I am not afraid of the masses of Yids coming here to escape anti-Semitism smearing us with their olive oil until we go all soft like them. Listen, history is funny in that way, there is a dialectic here, irony. Who was it who expanded the state of Israel almost up the boundaries of the kingdom of King David? Who expanded the state until it covered the area from Mount Hermon to Raz Muhammad? Levi Eshkol. Of all people, it was that follower of Gordon, that softie, that old woman. Who, on the other hand, is about to push us back into the walls of the ghetto? Who gave up all of Sinai in order to retain a civilised image? Beitar's governor in Poland, that proud man Menahem Begin. So you can never tell. I only know one thing for sure: as long as you are fighting for your life all is permitted, even to drive out all the Arabs from the West Bank, everything.

"Leibowitz is right, we are Judeo-Nazis, and why not? Listen, a people that gave itself up to be slaughtered, a people that let soap to be made of its children and lamp shades from the skin of its women is a worse criminal than its murderers. Worse than the Nazis...If your nice civilised parents had come here in time instead of writing books about the love for humanity and singing Hear O Israel on the way to the gas chambers, now don't be shocked, if they instead had killed six million Arabs here or even one million, what would have happened? Sure, two or three nasty pages would have been written in the history books, we would have been called all sorts of names, but we could be here today as a people of 25 million!

"Even today I am willing to volunteer to do the dirty work for Israel, to kill as many Arabs as necessary, to deport them, to expel and burn them, to have everyone hate us, to pull the rug from underneath the feet of the Diaspora Jews, so that they will be forced to run to us crying. Even if it means blowing up one or two synagogues here and there, I don't care. And I don't mind if after the job is done you put me in front of a Nuremberg Trial and then jail me for life. Hang me if you want, as a war criminal. Then you can spruce up your Jewish conscience and enter the respectable club of civilised nations, nations that are large and healthy. What you lot don't understand is that the dirty work of Zionism is not finished yet, far from it. True, it could have been finished in1948 , but you interfered, you stopped it. And all this because of the Jewishness in your souls, because of your Diaspora mentality. For the Jews don't grasp things quickly. If you open your eyes and look around the world you will see that darkness is falling again. And we know what happens to a Jew who stays out in the dark. So I am glad that this small war in Lebanon frightened the Yids. Let them be afraid, let them suffer. They should hurry home before it gets really dark. So I am an anti-Semite ? Fine. So don't quote me, quote Lilienblum instead [an early Russian Zionist - ed.]. There is no need to quote an anti-Semite. Quote Lilienblum, and he is definitely not an anti-Semite, there is even a street in Tel Aviv named after him. (C. quotes from a small notebook that was lying on his table when I arrived:) 'Is all that is happening not a clear sign that our forefathers and ourselves ... wanted and still want to be disgraced? That we enjoy living like gypsies.' That's Lilienblum. Not me. Believe me. I went through the Zionist literature, I can prove what I say.

"And you can write that I am disgrace to humanity, I don't mind, on the contrary. Let's make a deal: I will do all I can to expel the Arabs from here, I will do all I can to increase anti-Semitism, and you will write poems and essays about the misery of the Arabs and be prepared to absorb the Yids I will force to flee to this country and teach them to be a light unto the gentiles. How about it ?"

It was there that I stopped C.'s monologue for a moment and expressed the thought passing through my mind, perhaps more for myself than for my host. Was it possible that Hitler had not only hurt the Jews but also poisoned their minds? Had that poison sunk in and was still active? But not even that idea could cause C. to protest or raise his voice. After all, he said to have never shouted under stress, even during the famous operations his name is associated with...

[il Commy]

"...what do you call a gov't that denies the basic rights of the original inhabiters of the land?"
A very racist and colonial goverment. Very similar to the USA on how they treated native americans. The same for South Africa.

"What do you call an army that kills Palestinian children during a cease fire and they get no reprisals for it?"
An occupation army. Very similar to the USA army in Iraq and Vietnam, UK army in India etc.

"How about evil?"
Nah. That's a religious definition. Don't you think?

"The Third Reich was evil and so is the Israeli gov't."
LOL! Don't you think this sentence is abit too simplistic?

"So the Israeli gov't doesn't have ovens to despose of their problem"
That's not the only diffrence. The ruling class hasn't yet taken away from us many of the democratic rights. It has taken the democratic right of the refugees to return, yeah. But we still have the right to vote, to unionize, to criticize the goverment etc.

"I guess they lack that German sense of efficiency"
No, if they wanted they could even find better ways (with today's technologies, who knows...). It's just that there isn't yet a true need for the ruling class to be that extreme, slightly less. Though it goes in that direction, indeed. And you must remember that there is an anti-facist movment in Israel and that the majority of the people object racism.

[Morpheus]

we still have the right to vote, to unionize

You could do that in Mussolini's Italy.

Israeli daily Ma'ariv has also quoted an Israeli officer exhorting his men to study the tactics adopted by the Nazis
during the Second World War: "If our job is to seize a densely packed refugee camp or take over the Nablus Casbah, and if this job is to be given to an Israeli officer to carry out without casualties he must before all
else analyse and bring together the lessons of past battles, even - shocking though this might appear - to analyse how the German Army operated in the Warsaw Ghetto."

Israel is certainly genocidal, if not technically "fascist."

[Vinny Rafarino]

Sharon is a sick man that needs to be silenced.

[il Commy]

Originally posted by [email protected] 2 2003, 09:31 PM
You could do that in Mussolini's Italy.

Israel is certainly genocidal, if not technically "fascist."
Nope, you couldn't. Democracy is indeed just another form of exploitation, but it gives us better conditions to fight against capitalism and racism.

Israel inside the green line is not genocidal, it's an apartheid state. The israeli arabs are not mass murdered and not transfered, yet. They are just extremely discriminated.

In the conquered territories Israel treats the palestinians just like U$ treats Iraqis, with cruelty, oppression and exploitation. It's a obviouse case of imperialism, colonialism and racism, different from Germany before WW2. I find it alot more similar to U$A or South Africa as I said before.

[FabFabian]

Oh dear.....seems that il commie just didn't get it.

You can't possibly compare what happened to the Native population in the US with South Africa or Israel. Why you may ask? They took place in different eras. One was a period of imperialism, which was an accepted norm of the time. It is like saying that Roman women were mere chattle for their husbands, ergo Roman society was sexist. Please.

Occupation, once again we are speaking of different eras. Yes, those nasty British people were pissing on India, but there is fair arguement that with in that time Britain gave to India as much as they took. Opinion. Once again, we are in supposed modern times and this kind of behaviour is frowned upon.

Evil is evil, you neither have to be religiously inclined nor an atheist to reject it. Noone has the exclusive use of the word. Semantic gymnastics.

Simplistic you say? If there is wrong major problem with the whole Israel/Palestine dilemma it is that people write it off as being too complicated a matter; it is far from it. The way I broke down my post illustrated that.

My final comment was *shock and gasp* called sarcasm. A joke if you will. You either get it or you don't. No wonder people on the left are labelled as having no sense of humour. Jeez lighten up! :P

[il Commy]

"You can't possibly compare what happened to the Native population in the US with South Africa or Israel. Why you may ask? They took place in different eras. One was a period of imperialism, which was an accepted norm of the time. It is like saying that Roman women were mere chattle for their husbands, ergo Roman society was sexist. Please."

Ofcourse I'm aware of those diefferences. Zionist Israel is a very special case in history. But it is much more similar to the Apartheid than to the Third Reich, because Germany was never an immigrant society.

"Occupation, once again we are speaking of different eras. Yes, those nasty British people were pissing on India, but there is fair arguement that with in that time Britain gave to India as much as they took. Opinion. Once again, we are in supposed modern times and this kind of behaviour is frowned upon."

First of all, I doubt if Britian gave something more than railroads to India. Second, the occupation of India continued until the middle of the 20'th century, very modern times.

"Simplistic you say? If there is wrong major problem with the whole Israel/Palestine dilemma it is that people write it off as being too complicated a matter; it is far from it. The way I broke down my post illustrated that."

The Israel/Palestine dilemma is far more complicated than what you put in your post. It has historical roots and developments of a 100 years. It involves a xenophobic and religios reaction on both sides. It has very certain class situation. To say "the israeli goverment is evil and the Third Reich was evil therefore the israeli goverment are the Thirs Reich" is actually an insult to intelligence. It's like saying "The Nazis had a problem with Jews and the Palestinians has a problem with Jews therefore the Palestinians are Nazis". It's like saying "Bush is evil and Saddam is evil so we shouldn't support or defend either in the Iraq war".

Life are just abit more complicated than these superficial abstractions.

"My final comment was *shock and gasp* called sarcasm. A joke if you will. You either get it or you don't. No wonder people on the left are labelled as having no sense of humour. Jeez lighten up!"

Sarcasm doesn't go through well through the internet, especially for people who are not native English speakers. And personally I'm not in a very joyful mood when talking about the Holocaust, my whole family was burnt there, so don't expect me to crack up even if I understand you're sarcastic.

[RebeldePorLaPAZ]

Isn't there plans underway to build a wall between Isreal and Palestinian boarders. I heard that on the news somewere but wouldn't that make things worse???

[IHP]

Here are the relative wall sizes: http://www.iap.org/

This is also a good site for any other anti-zionists.

--IHP

[il Commy]

Originally posted by [email protected] 10 2003, 01:48 PM
Isn't there plans underway to build a wall between Isreal and Palestinian boarders. I heard that on the news somewere but wouldn't that make things worse???
Here's a presentation that shows all the necessary information about the seperation wall:
http://www.gush-shalom.org/media/seperationmap_eng.swf

Note that this is from "Gush Shalom" site, a zioinist-pacifist organization.

[CopperGoat]

Hey Rastafari, you know the Rastafarian religion is like a Zion thing. With Heille Sellassie....

[RebeldePorLaPAZ]

thanks ill commy, thats a nice site. but i havent taken sides on wether its good or bad to build a wall yet, but that fact that there is going to be a wall just gives me the feeling that nothings going to get better.

[elijahcraig]

thanks ill commy, thats a nice site. but i havent taken sides on wether its good or bad to build a wall yet, but that fact that there is going to be a wall just gives me the feeling that nothings going to get better.

If someone wants to attack, if they are willing to kamikaze themselves off...a wall is not going to stop them.

[il Commy]

Originally posted by [email protected] 11 2003, 05:12 AM

thanks ill commy, thats a nice site. but i havent taken sides on wether its good or bad to build a wall yet, but that fact that there is going to be a wall just gives me the feeling that nothings going to get better.

If someone wants to attack, if they are willing to kamikaze themselves off...a wall is not going to stop them.
It kind of helped abit in Gaza, but the problem with it is that it takes from the palestinians alot of territories because it's not on the green line.

[kingbee]

these are a few of the things i know- during ww2, there was a "terrorist" group in israel- either irgun or the stern gang (cant remember which one), which wanted to set up a state of israel with nazi help, in return for the country to be a nazi stronghold in the middle east.

also, sharon told off a soldier for not killing a civilian when he had the chance, and also slit egypt/lebanons (sorry- bad memory) soldiers throats while they were sleeping.

i think the last point could be an exaggeration, but i have definitely read it (introducing the arabs and israel).

[FabFabian]

Complicated???? That is just a blanket explanation for everything in the world. We can solve racism cuz it is "complicated". We can't solve homelessness cuz it is "complicated". We can't possibly help the Third World cuz it is "complicated". Cut the crap.

And as for your ancestors being burned in the ovens, I am sorry they had to experience that, but holocausts of all types have been going on for many centuries and no one group holds the corner market on it. Like I implied, the Israeli gov't is doing an inefficient job at eliminating the Arabs.

[il Commy]

Originally posted by [email protected] 12 2003, 02:02 AM
Complicated???? That is just a blanket explanation for everything in the world. We can solve racism cuz it is "complicated". We can't solve homelessness cuz it is "complicated". We can't possibly help the Third World cuz it is "complicated". Cut the crap.

And as for your ancestors being burned in the ovens, I am sorry they had to experience that, but holocausts of all types have been going on for many centuries and no one group holds the corner market on it. Like I implied, the Israeli gov't is doing an inefficient job at eliminating the Arabs.
I never said we can't solve it. I just said there must be an understanding to the subject more than you've shown so we can solve it. Want to know more about the Israel-Palestine dilema? Yossi Shwartz and his comrades wrote about it many interesting articles on:
http://www.marxist.com/

I mentioned my family being killed in respond to "lestist don't have a sense of humor", not anything else.

And there's a big difference between eliminating a nation and expelling it. On the Nakba thousands of palestinians were expelled from there country. It was tragic, horrible and inhuman. But it was different from the Holcaust, when people (Jews, Gypsies, homosexuals, political opposers to Hitler etc.) were actually killed.
If you want to compare the Holocaust to something, go with the genocides of the native africans. I for instance remember the Hedero (I hope the name is correct) tribe was completly earased by the germans because they said it was an inferior race that should be destroyed (Hitler as a boy actually learned from the guy who lead this genocide). There was also one named Fisher which committed experiments on black people, Mengale was one of his students.

[Rastafari]

but weren't similar restrictions placed on the Jews in Germany before the holocaust? History does repeat itself, and if Isreal had any allies around its borders, it would already be sending tanks down palestinian roads.

[ONE]

Originally posted by [email protected] 12 2003, 01:44 PM
...and if Isreal had any allies around its borders, it would already be sending tanks down palestinian roads.
That's already been done! They've even sent helicopters in.

The situation in Israel/Palestine is the most unjust display of international politics in modern day history and is a blatant disregard for international laws and overwhelming and unquestionable proof of the ineffectiveness of the United Nations.

[Lefty]

As I see it, both sides are fucked up. Peace will not be reached with extremists like Sharon and Arafat in power. The sides need to come to an agreement, and an agreement requires moderate politicians to step up and be man enough to be kind to the other side, no matter how much he hates it.

[FistFullOfSteel]

why is sharon the only fatass in israel goverment???..:lol: PALESTINA POWER!!

[Hater]

>>>There are many similarities to the Third Reich, although it's probably more of a settler-colonialist state like Apartheid South Africa which is still pretty bad

The apartheid in South Africa is nothing compared to the apartheid currently going on in Israel. The South Africans spent billions of Rands investing in the African homelands. How much has Israel invested in its bantustans in the West Bank? Chomsky wrote about this in his book Understanding Power.

[Comrade Marcel]

To be fair, that 1982 interview has never actually been proven to be Ariel Sharon. The person only identified themself as "C", but it was widely speculated that it was in fact Sharon.

[highway star]

I DONT THINK THEY WILL BE REICH.BECAUSE REICH GOT A VERY STRONG ARMY.BUT NOW EVENTS ISNT LIKE THAT.BECAUSE ISRAEL HASNT GOT A HUGE ARMY.AND THEY HAVE LOBÝES IN USA,EU AND NOW RUSSIA.THEY EFFECT THE GOVERNMENTS AND REACHES THEIR AIMS.WHY DID USA ATTACKED IRAQ?
1-OIL
2-ISRAEL
2-BECAUSE IRAQ IS(NOW WAS) THE STRONGEST COUNTRY THAT CAN COPE WITH ISRAEL.NOW ISRAEL IS A BABY IN MILITARY MEANING.THERE COULD BE A BIG ARABIC ORGANIZATION AGAINST ISRAEL.BUT ISRAELI LOBY IN USA GOVERNMENT EFFECTTED FOOLISH BUSH FOR WAR.AND THE BIGGEST FORCE THAT BE IN FRONT OF ISAREL WAS DESTROYED.

IF U LOOK FROM THIS WINDOW U CAN SEE THEY ARENT LIKE REICH.