Ecuadorean Coup D'etat?

[NecroCommie]

I hear there is one going on right now. I, however, have been given only spanish news links. Anyone with any english ones?

They say it's a group of policemen, and that the president is in the hospital right now, and that people are out on the streets.

[Q]

Try to enter a spanish article url into Google Translate, set it to translate to English (or Finnish in your case) and enjoy. It's not ideal, but it works.

[Nachie]

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5jrnvjhcqgCKRGkE7xwszbiQS-mqA?docId=CNG.eca89f5bc88800f85f46c6df5cbe0017.61

Ecuador in turmoil as president denounces 'coup attempt'


QUITO — Ecuador was plunged into political crisis Thursday as troops seized the country's main airport and stormed the Congress building in what President Rafael Correa denounced as an attempted coup.

About 150 renegade troops seized a runway at Ecuador's international airport in the capital of the South American nation, as dozens of police protested on the streets against a new law which would strip them of some pay bonuses.

Dozens of police units took over government buildings in the country's other two main cities, Guayaquil and Cuenca, and Foreign Minister Ricardo Pitino blamed the insurrection on "sectors aiming to overthrow the government."

The uprising occurred as Correa was in the hospital recovering from an operation on his knee, and the president said he was seeking refuge in the building fearing for his life.

"It is a coup attempt led by the opposition and certain sections of the armed forces and the police," Correa told local television.

"Whatever happens to me I want to express my love for my family and my homeland."

Correa charged some police had tried to storm his hospital room Thursday.

The Ecuadoran leader has vowed he will not bow in face of the protests, as the army chief threw his weight behind the Ecuadoran leader and vowed to restore order.

"No, I will not step back, if they want to seize the barracks, if they want to leave the citizens defenseless and betray their mission," Correa said earlier in a speech to soldiers from Quito's main regiment.

The largest demonstrations erupted in Quito where tear gas was used to try to disperse the crowds.

"The troops united will never be defeated," the demonstrators chanted, with some calling on the troops to join in the demonstrations.

But army chief Ernesto Gonzalez on Thursday threw his full support behind Correa, who was said to be considering dissolving Congress and holding snap elections to resolve the political crisis.

"We live in a state which is governed by laws, and we are subordinate to the highest authority which is the president of the republic," Gonzalez told a press conference.

"We will take whatever appropriate action the government decides on," he added.

Police chief Freddy Martinez also rushed to the scene of the demonstrations to call for calm, but was met with a hostile reception.

The leftist Correa was re-elected last year to a second term as president of the country of some 14.5 million people, which is bordered by Colombia and Peru.
International election observers at the time criticized Correa's "dominant" media presence in the run up to the vote, which they said had damaged the poll's fairness.

Since first coming to power in 2006, Correa has proven controversial because of his close ties to regional leftists like Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez.
The US-educated economist took a tough stance with investors and refused to repay foreign debt, in moves welcomed by supporters who blamed the effects of the economic crisis on foreign liberalism.

Correa had nearly two years left of his current term, but a new constitution approved in 2008 let him bid to start over again.

Correa promised to pursue popular social programs funded by oil wealth in the OPEC nation where 38 percent of the population lives below the poverty line.
His reelection was seen as giving some stability to the world's top banana exporter that has seen three of its previous presidents -- between 1996 and 2006 -- ousted before the end of their terms.

[NecroCommie]

Wow. Really shows off the entire police profession as the authority seeking bullies they are.

[hatzel]

My understanding from reading the latest news on BBC Mundo (posted about 10-15 minutes ago) is that it isn't necessarily a coup d'etat at this stage. From what I can gather from the latest articles posted, the president is in hospital, though, but just suffering from a bit of tear gas, nothing that serious. A coup d'etat may be imminent, but that exact phrase definitely hasn't cropped up in my news sources just yet. Mere protests, as outlined above.

[Fulanito de Tal]

And in 2035, the CIA releases papers describing it involvement, possibly through Columbia.:mad:

[Artemis3]

He is in the Hospital because the Police is not letting him out, this is a Coup attempt, people are being called to go surround this hospital... Another group of police is trying to take the hospital by force.

Also the Airport is closed (Why???) apparently some in their Air Force are involved. This is the same pattern the right is using in Latin America, pick any lame excuse and force the President out...

BTW: These policemen have physically hurt people, journalists and State workers.


1:32 PM | "Policías intentan introducirse a mi habitación por los techos, si algo me pasa abrazo infinito a la Patria y a mi familia. Siempre los amaré", dijo Correa en una entrevista telefónica con los medios públicos de su país.
1:32 PM | "The Police is trying to get to my room by the roof, if something happens my infinite hug to the Fatherland and my family. I will always love you". Said Correa in a telephonic interview with the State Media of his country.There is a large people demonstration near the presidential palace, they are going to "rescue" the president "We are not afraid, we are going"... People are being called to the streets.

President Correa is in the Hospital because he was hurt while dealing with the Police, a gas can got near his face.
http://www.aporrea.org/imagenes/2010/09/ecucorrea.jpg


There is an emergency OAS meeting discussing the matter.

[hatzel]

Ecuador: state of emergency declared

The government of Ecuador has declared a state of emergency throughout the national territory and put the army in charge of the country's internal and external security.

Legal Secretary of the Presidency, Alexis Mera, spoke at a news conference from the Governmental Palace, declaring a 'state of emergency for a week', and said that the military would take over security in this period.

The latest

[NecroCommie]

And in 2035, the CIA releases papers describing it involvement, possibly through Columbia.:mad:
Judging from previous experience, I think this should be the default from which we start to analyze the situation.

[RED DAVE]

Don't worry. President Obama will ... well you know.

RED DAVE

[Theory&Action]

I'm a little confused about one aspect of this story. The police protests are supposedly in direct response to "austerity measures" that cut bonuses to government officials including the police. Is this a case of the police using the popular sentiment against austerity measures to gain the support of the populace in order to overthrow a leftist president, or is there some genuine anger among many government officials over these measures?

[Barry Lyndon]

WTF is this?

[dez]

NO AL GOLPISMO FASCISTA

¡ECUADOR NO SERÁ EL CHILE DEL 73'!



Este instante, decenas de miles de ecuatorianos que durante la mañana se habían concentrado en las afueras del Palacio de Gobierno, se movilizan al Hospital de la Policía y el Regimiento Quito No. 1, donde se encuentra el compañero Presidente Rafael Correa, quien en su última alocución radial hace varios minutos ha dicho que preferirá que lo disparen al pecho, ha citado a su esposa e hijos que no se preocupen, que cumplirá con su deber y que todos sabían que esta Revolución Ciudadana iba a acarrear peligros, citando también que se ha negado a salir escoltado por los insubordinados golpistas (ultra-derecha, gutierristas, socialcristianos apoyados por Pachakutik y un sector de Conaie).



Los insubordinados con armas han bloqueado el acceso a Quito y Guayaquil, acordonado a los asambleístas de PAIS, instándoles que procedan a desalojar, a lo que el bloque PAIS y sus aliados han respondido que los sacan muertos, porque no aceptan el golpe fascista. Una asambleísta de PAIS ha sido golpeada, en tanto el pueblo logró romper el cerco policial en Carcelén (barrio del Norte). Policía no resguarda ningún sitio y se han producido 4 asaltos a bancos al unísono, mientras Inteligencia Policial intenta sacar del aire a la Radio Pública y Televisión Pública.



En el sector eléctrico, hemos dado la orden de movilización nacional en todo el país, en paz, a las Gobernaciones y calles principales para impedir el golpe, a los responsables sociales de las empresas eléctricas y a las comunidades beneficiarias del FERUM.



En Quito acaban de informar que huestes gutierristas y MPD (maoístas) en alianza con Policía intentan penetrar el hospital policial donde está el Presidente de la República.



La policía ha disparado gases a los primeros pobladores que intentaron acercarse al hospital donde está el compañero Correa.



Lourdes Tibán, ¡"líder" indígena de Pachakutik! acaba de comunicar en público que aplaude a los policías y soldados, que se mantenga la insurrección policial, que "ya era hora".



A movilizarse en todas las capitales latinoamericanas y del mundo, a tomarse en paz y dialogando con nuestros compañeros embajadores y consules, las embajadas y consulados de Ecuador en todo el ALBA en solidaridad con la Revolución Ciudadana, el compañero Presidente Rafael Correa y el Ecuador.



La Policía está reprimiendo a los primeros ciudadanos que se acercan al Regimiento Quito!



Esta "protesta" estuvo planificada y bien orquestada, porque son todos los cuarteles policiales los que están sublevados, supuestamente exigiendo "reivindicaciones", pero con un objetivo golpista evidente.



No tienen el factor Pueblo. Esa será su derrota histórica.



Tenemos problemas con la comunicación y celulares, por favor comunicarse a mi telefono celular o mail: 096-019109.



Es necesaria y urgente la rápida reacción popular y revolucionaria en Latinoamérica y el mundo.



Que todos sepan que la ultra-derecha fascista, socialcristianos y gutierristas aparecen unidos con Conaie, Pachakutik, MPD y un sector facho de la Policía Nacional.



Alexis Ponce

Ecuador


DIARIOS DE URGENCIA********************************

RESUMEN LATINOAMERICANO

DIRECCIÓN: CARLOS AZNÁREZ
REDACCION: María Torrellas, Leandro Albani, Yamila Blanco

30 de septiembre de 2010 Nº 2282

================================================== ========================
================================================== ========================
INFORMACION-DENUNCIA-SOLIDARIDAD de LATINOAMÉRICA
Y EL TERCER MUNDO

ATENCION A NUESTROS LECTORES

LOS GOLPISTAS HAN RODEADO AL PRESIDENTE CORREA EN EL REGIMIENTO QUITO DE LA POLICIA QUE SE AMOTINÓ. EL PRESIDENTE FUE AGREDIDO POR LOS POLICIAS, QUE LE LANZARON GASES Y TRATARON DE GOLPEARLO. SE ENCUENTRA EN UNA HABITACIÓN Y LOS POLICIAS ESTÁN TRATANDO DE DETENERLO.

DESDE "RESUMEN LATINOAMERICANO" CONVOCAMOS A MOVILIZARSE EN TODOS LOS PAISES PARA REPUDIAR EL INTENTO DE GOLPE DE ESTADO EN ECUADOR.
LOS POLICIAS HAN AGREDIDO AL PRESIDENTE CORREA, LE HAN LANZADO GASES Y TUVO QUE SER ATENDIDO DE URGENCIA, CASI ASFIXIADO.
EN ESTOS MOMENTOS, EL PRESIDENTE DENUNCIA POR LA RADIO PUBLICA DE ECUADOR QUE SE TRATA DE "UN INTENTO DE GOLPE DE LA OPOSICION Y GRUPOS DE MILITARES Y POLICIAS".
EN GUAYAQUIL, SECTORES DE LA OPOSICION ESTÁN PRODUCIENDO SAQUEOS Y ENFRENTANDO A LOS SECTORES LEALES AL GOBIERNO.

LA AERONAUTICA TAMBIEN ESTÁ INSURRECCIONADA Y HA OCUPADO AEROPUERTOS.
EL PUEBLO, MIENTRAS TANTO, SE LANZÓ A LA CALLE Y SE REUNE FRENTE AL PALACIO PRESIDENCIAL

CORREA HA AFIRMADO, QUE SI TIENE QUE DAR LA VIDA LO VA A HACER PERO NO VA A CEDER ANTE LOS GOLPISTAS.

ES URGENTE, POR ESO, MOVILIZARSE EN TODO EL CONTINENTE PARA DECIRLE "NO" A ESTE INTENTO PRO YANQUI DE DERROCAR AL GOBIERNO ECUATORIANO.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Jueves, 30 de Setiembre del 2010 | 10:55 hrs
Presidente Correa llega a regimiento tomado por cientos de policías
´Señores, si quieren matar al presidente, aquí está: mátenme si les da la gana, mátenme si tienen valor´ dijo Correa a su llegada al Regimiento Quito.

Crisis en Ecuador: Policías toman regimiento por eliminación de incentivos Unos 120 militares se unen a protesta de la Policía en Ecuador Rafael Correa considera convocar elecciones anticipadas en Ecuador Cierran aeropuerto de Quito por protesta de fuerzas del orden
El presidente de Ecuador, Rafael Correa, llegó hoy al Regimiento Quito, donde cientos de policías de tropa protestan en rechazo a la eliminación de incentivos profesionales aprobado por la Asamblea Nacional, mientras otro grupo bloquea a esta hora una pista del aeropuerto de la capital.

"Señores, si quieren matar al presidente, aquí está: mátenme si les da la gana, mátenme si tienen valor, en vez de estar en la muchedumbre, cobardemente escondidos", dijo Correa visiblemente exaltado al asegurar que seguirán "con una sola política de justicia, dignidad".

"Si quieren tomarse los cuarteles, si quieren dejar a la ciudadanía indefensa, si quieren traicionar su misión de policías, su juramento, traiciónenlo, pero este presidente y este Gobierno seguirán haciendo lo que tiene que hacer", añadió Correa.

Correa intentó dialogar con los policías en las afueras del Regimiento pero los manifestantes lo recibieron molestos y con gritos por lo que el jefe de Estado ingresó en las instalaciones y desde una ventana se dirigió a los policías de tropa.

Al inicio de su intervención, Correa aseguró que podía esperar esa actitud de cualquier otra institución, pero no de la Policía y se lamentó de lo que considera una "memoria frágil" pues, a su criterio, ningún otro Gobierno ha hecho lo que el suyo por esa institución del orden.

"Si quieren destruir la patria, destrúyanla, pero este presidente no da ni un paso atrás, viva la patria", finalizó Correa, que terminó su intervención de forma abrupta.

Desde temprano, policías de tropa ocuparon las instalaciones del Regimiento Quito con gritos en los que llamaban a la unidad y a protestar contra lo que consideran una injusticia contra su profesión.

Los policías de tropa rechazan, entre otras cosas, que se hayan eliminado incentivos económicos en los ascensos y que se haya ampliado el plazo para los mismos.

Los policías de tropa, que escondían sus rostros de las cámaras, también incendiaron neumáticos en las afueras del regimiento para agudizar la protesta inédita en Ecuador.

En medio de las protestas, Efe constató que los policías pedían a gritos a los militares que los apoyen en el reclamo, al considerar que también a las Fuerzas Armadas afecta la decisión de eliminar incentivos.

Precisamente en el aeropuerto de Quito, unos 150 policías bloquearon la pista del aeropuerto en protesta contra las altas autoridades, según constató Efe.

"Por nosotros está en el poder Correa", decían los policías, mientras en medio de la protesta se escuchaban gritos de "vamos a la guerra civil".

Como método de protesta, los policías dijeron que no saldrán a las calles a realizar su trabajo hasta lograr un acuerdo con el Gobierno.

Algunos policías aseguraron que la medida de protesta también se extenderá a otros sectores del país, entre ellos la provincia del Guayas, cuya capital es Guayaquil, la ciudad más poblada del país.

El general Florencio Ruiz, jefe del Estado mayor de la Policía, que llegó al Regimiento Quito, dijo a la televisión Telamazonas, que llegaba al sitio para "calmar a la gente" y decirles que "no es necesaria esta protesta" y pedirles "un diálogo respetuoso, fundamentado jurídica y técnicamente con el presidente de la República".

El intento del Comandante general de la Policía, Freddy Martínez, por dialogar con los manifestantes se vio frustrado cuando se accionó una bomba de gas lacrimógeno cerca al sitio donde estaba el alto militar en el mismo regimiento.

ECUADOR

Policías y militares se amotinaron en Ecuador
y le lanzaron gases a Correa
**********************************************

Jueves 30 de Septiembre de 2010

Los rebeldes tomaron un cuartel, aeropuertos y comisarías. "Si me quieren matar, que me maten", dijo el presidente; se habría desmayado.

QUITO, Ecuador.- Soldados ecuatorianos tomaron hoy la pista del aeropuerto de Quito, después de que éste fuera cerrado como consecuencia de la protesta que están manteniendo casi un millar de policías contra el presidente Rafael Correa. Todos los vuelos desde y hacia ese aeropuerto han sido suspendidos temporalmente.

Miembros de la Policía Nacional, en diversos puntos del país, están tomando cuarteles y calles principales. Exigen la restitución de varios beneficios, de los años previstos de ascensos, y de las condecoraciones, eliminados con una nueva Ley de Servicios Públicos aprobada anoche. Imágenes de televisión mostraron a los manifestantes en uniforme de tropa, quemando neumáticos en varios sitios de Quito.

Los uniformados dijeron que no cederán en su protesta. De hecho, ocuparon el Regimiento Quito (el mayor de la capital), a donde acudió el presidente Correa, pero no pudo dialogar con ellos. "Si me quieren matar, que me maten", dijo el mandatario desde el edificio tomado.

En un improvisado discurso brindado desde una ventana, Correa se quitó la corbata y se abrió la camisa para mostrar que no llevaba protección antibalas. Seguidamente, aclaró que no dará "marcha atrás" en la norma. Luego, al tratar de retirarse, recibió baldazos de agua, en medio de la turba. Su escolta tuvo que disparar bombas lacrimógenas para facilitar la evacuación presidencial.

Mientras tanto, el ministro de Seguridad Interna y Externa, Miguel Carvajal, dio una rueda de prensa urgente y confió en "que todo vuelva a la calma en pocos minutos". También el jefe militar de Ecuador aseguró que las Fuerzas Armadas siguen siendo leales a Correa.

El amotinamiento policial se extendió rápidamente hacia el resto del territorio nacional y existen carreteras y vías obstaculizadas. Se registraron también saqueos en varios negocios. De hecho, los agentes rebeldes llamaron a todo el país a la unidad y a protestar contra lo que consideran una injusticia contra su profesión.

Se trata de la primera crisis grave que enfrenta Correa, tras haber asumido el poder en 2007. (DPA)

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++++++++
URGENTE

El gobierno argentino manifestó apoyo a su par de Ecuador

El gobierno argentino expresó hoy su "compromiso solidario y activo" con el presidente Rafael Correa en medio de la rebelión de policías y militares que toman un aeropuerto y comisarías en rechazo a recortes presupuestarios.

Mediante la red social twitter, el canciller Héctor Timerman informó que hay contactos con Quito y subrayó: "Desde ya nuestro compromiso solidario y activo con el gobierno democrático de Ecuador y su presidente Rafael Correa".

Timerman anticipó, además, que en breve la Casa Rosada dará a conocer un comunicado oficial fijando la posición frente a la crisis que sacude al gobierno de Correa.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
URGENTE ECUADOR
Saqueos y violencia tras crisis política en Ecuador
************************************************** *
La prensa ecuatoriana reportó saqueos en negocios y bancos debido a que los patrulleros recibieron la orden de regresar al cuartel. La ciudad quedó sin vigilancia.

Tras la crisis política, militar y policial originada en Ecuador por la eliminación de beneficios e incentivos para los agentes del orden, los saqueos y la violencia se desataron en la ciudad.

La prensa ecuatoriana reportó saqueos en negocios y bancos, debido a que los patrulleros recibieron la orden de regresar al cuartel.

Quito se quedó si vigilancia en las calles. Además, anunciaron el asalto a "Mall del Sur", el principal centro comercial de Quito.

Las escuelas también fueron cerradas para evitar víctimas mortales, siendo Guayaquil y Quito las ciudades más perjudicadas.

Además, las principales vías de acceso y puentes están bloqueados por los revoltosos.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++

ECUADOR
Unos 120 militares se unen a protesta de la Policía en Ecuador
************************************************** ************

Cientos de policías permanecen en el Regimiento Uno de la capital y otro grupo también se ha congregado frente al Cuartel Modelo de Guayaquil.

contra una reducción de sus beneficios salariales por parte de la policía, que ha ocupado un regimiento de la capital y ha obligado a cerrar el aeropuerto de Quito, según dijo hoy a Efe una fuente gubernamental.

Oficiales militares se reunieron hoy temprano con el ministro de Defensa, Javier Ponce, a quien le expresaron su insatisfacción por el cambio en el sistema de bonificaciones y ascensos, dijo la fuente, que pidió no ser identificada.

"Hay descontento por el despido de condecoraciones, pero existe un desconocimiento del personal militar en cuanto a ese decreto", dijo la fuente, la cual hizo hincapié en que las condecoraciones "serán reemplazadas por compensación".

Algunos de los militares que se reunieron con Ponce se congregaron tras el encuentro en las afueras del ministerio, donde hay unas 120 personas, de acuerdo con la fuente.

Mientras, cientos de policías permanecen en el Regimiento Uno de la capital y otro grupo también se ha congregado frente al Cuartel Modelo de Guayaquil, en protesta por la reducción de sus beneficios salariales.

Will translate a resume

[Nolan]

Don't worry. President Obama will ... well you know.

RED DAVE

Make some half-assed statement against it, then be one of the first to recognize it?

[Ligeia]

Make some half-assed statement against it, then be one of the first to recognize it?
U.S. representative in the OEA said they don't have enough information but are watching with "interest".

[dez]

NO TO THE FASCIST COUP INTENTS!

ECUADOR SHALL NOT BE 73'S CHILE!



At this moment, tens of thousands of ecuatorians that during the morning had concentrated in the outskirts of the government palace, are mobilizing to the police and regiment Quito Nr. 1 hospita, where the comrade president Rafael Correa is, in whose last radio transmission a few minutes ago said that he would prefer to be shot in the chest, told his wife and kids not to worry, that he shall fulfill his duty and that everyone knew that this Citizen Revolution would result in dangers, citing as well that he denied to go out escorted by the coupists (far right, gutierristas, social-christians supported by Pachakutik and a sector of Conaie).

The armed insurgents have blocked access to quito and guayaquil, cordoned the assemblists of PAIS, urging that they proceed to evic, which the PAIS block responded with claims that they would only get out dead, because they do not accept the fascist coup. An assemblist coup has been stricken, however the people was able to break the police siege in Carcelen (northern barrio). Police is not guarding anywhere and 4 bank robberies already took place, yet police intelligence is trying to take down the Public Television and Radio.

In the electric sector, we have given the order for national mobilization in all the country, in peace, to the municipalities and main roads to prevent the coup, to the social responsables for electrical companies and to the communities benefited by the FERUM.

In quito they informed that gutierrists and the MPD (maoists) in allegiance with the police try to penetrate the police hospital where the president is.

Police has shot gasses at the first settlers that tried to get in the hospital where comrade Correa is.


Lourdes Tibán, the indigenous leader of Pachakutik! has just said in public that she applauds the police and soldiers, that the police insurrection should be maintained, that "it was enough time."

Mobilize in all latin american capitals and capitals of the world, to talke about peace and dialogue with our comrade ambassadors and consuls, to the embassies of Ecuador in the whole of ALBA in solidarity to the Citizen Revolution, comrade Rafael Correa and Ecuador.

Police is repressing the first citizens that are getting to the Quito Regiment.

This "protest" was planified and orchestrated, because all police quarters are insurrected, supposedly demanding "claims" (wage increases), but with a clear objective of a coup.

They do not have the people factor. It shall be their historical defeat.

We have trouble with communication and cellphones, please call my cellphone number:: 096-019109.


It is necessary the quick popular reaction in latin america and the world.

That all know that the fascist ultraright, social-christians and gutierristas turned out to be joined with Conaie, Pachakutik, MPD and a fasch sector of the National Police.



Alexis Ponce

[Rusty Shackleford]

Imperialists are hard at work.

Venezuela, Honduras, Ecuador. So-far were 2 for 3. Maybe ALBA can do something about this.

[Ligeia]

Maybe ALBA can do something about this.
I don't think so. Chavez said that they won't interfere and that the only ones who could and should do something about this are the ecuadorian people.
Chavez and Morales both appealed to the armed forces of Ecuador to do something about this.
Of course, they will have a meeting soon to discuss but that's the situation so far.

[Rusty Shackleford]

Well, i hope the military does something about this.

Maybe this will blow over over the next week.

[Comrade Gwydion]

NO TO THE FASCIST COUP INTENTS!

ECUADOR SHALL NOT BE 73'S CHILE!



At this moment, tens of thousands of ecuatorians that during the morning had concentrated in the outskirts of the government palace, are mobilizing to the police and regiment Quito Nr. 1 hospita, where the comrade president Rafael Correa is, in whose last radio transmission a few minutes ago said that he would prefer to be shot in the chest, told his wife and kids not to worry, that he shall fulfill his duty and that everyone knew that this Citizen Revolution would result in dangers, citing as well that he denied to go out escorted by the coupists (far right, gutierristas, social-christians supported by Pachakutik and a sector of Conaie).

The armed insurgents have blocked access to quito and guayaquil, cordoned the assemblists of PAIS, urging that they proceed to evic, which the PAIS block responded with claims that they would only get out dead, because they do not accept the fascist coup. An assemblist coup has been stricken, however the people was able to break the police siege in Carcelen (northern barrio). Police is not guarding anywhere and 4 bank robberies already took place, yet police intelligence is trying to take down the Public Television and Radio.

In the electric sector, we have given the order for national mobilization in all the country, in peace, to the municipalities and main roads to prevent the coup, to the social responsables for electrical companies and to the communities benefited by the FERUM.

In quito they informed that gutierrists and the MPD (maoists) in allegiance with the police try to penetrate the police hospital where the president is.

Police has shot gasses at the first settlers that tried to get in the hospital where comrade Correa is.


Lourdes Tibán, the indigenous leader of Pachakutik! has just said in public that she applauds the police and soldiers, that the police insurrection should be maintained, that "it was enough time."

Mobilize in all latin american capitals and capitals of the world, to talke about peace and dialogue with our comrade ambassadors and consuls, to the embassies of Ecuador in the whole of ALBA in solidarity to the Citizen Revolution, comrade Rafael Correa and Ecuador.

Police is repressing the first citizens that are getting to the Quito Regiment.

This "protest" was planified and orchestrated, because all police quarters are insurrected, supposedly demanding "claims" (wage increases), but with a clear objective of a coup.

They do not have the people factor. It shall be their historical defeat.

We have trouble with communication and cellphones, please call my cellphone number:: 096-019109.


It is necessary the quick popular reaction in latin america and the world.

That all know that the fascist ultraright, social-christians and gutierristas turned out to be joined with Conaie, Pachakutik, MPD and a fasch sector of the National Police.



Alexis Ponce

Wait. The Maoïsts are on the side of the coup? :confused: And who are these gutierristas, conaie and pachakutik?

[Gustav HK]

The MPD is not maoist, it is the paralmenetary wing of the hoxhaist PCMLE.

Well maybe they are some sort of "epic-fail hoxhaists", like the Venezuelan Red Flag party, that supported the neo-liberal opposition against Chavez. Or maybe MPD is correct somehow.

If they are "epic-fail hoxhaists" then it would be pretty sad, as the Ecuadorian hoxhaists are probably the strongest in the world. :crying:

But even if MPD has become revisionist, then it doesn´t mean that the whole PCMLE has become revisionist, but maybe they just need some self-critiscism and purges.

[Comrade Gwydion]

The MPD is not maoist, it is the paralmenetary wing of the hoxhaist PCMLE.

Well maybe they are some sort of "epic-fail hoxhaists", like the Venezuelan Red Flag party, that supported the neo-liberal opposition against Chavez. Or maybe MPD is correct somehow.

If they are "epic-fail hoxhaists" then it would be pretty sad, as the Ecuadorian hoxhaists are probably the strongest in the world. :crying:

But even if MPD has become revisionist, then it doesn´t mean that the whole PCMLE has become revisionist, but maybe they just need some self-critiscism and purges.



Again, what the hell? :S

[dez]

MPD-PCMLE isn't revisionist, although they're likely to seize any opportunity they have to gain ground.

[Amphictyonis]

The US has it's fingerprints all over this.

[dez]

Wait. The Maoïsts are on the side of the coup? :confused: And who are these gutierristas, conaie and pachakutik?

Gutierristas:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucio_Guti%C3%A9rrez
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/January_21_Patriotic_Society_Party

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CONAIE

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pluri-National_Pachakutik_United_Movement_-_New_Country

[Nolan]

That MPD is involved is an interesting development, and I for one would like to know why they're taking the side they are. I'm keeping an eye on this.

[el_chavista]

The cops are surrounding the hospital where Correa is, but the Correaist crowd nearby seems as lacking enough firepower to clash against the cops.

[~Spectre]

Hopefully there is an Irish film crew on hand.

[Gustav HK]

The Danish hoxhaists have made an article, that supports the protests, and accuses Correa of becoming more and more positive toward US-imperialism, and more and more oppressive toward the people. Fx he demanded that the leader of the organization for the university students and former leader of the youth wing of PCMLE, Marcelo Rivera, should be arrested, and now he is in jail.

I will translate it later.

[Roach]

God! History is being made rigth in front of our eyes!(unfortunately not exactly how we wanted)Did the PCMLE and MPD wrote something about it?

[Gustav HK]

There is some articles on MPD´s site. You can use google translate unless you of course know Spanish. But MPD supports the protests.

[Ocean Seal]

What is it exactly that the troops want? I'm just curious, have they made a statement or is this just a protest of being stripped of bonuses?

[The Vegan Marxist]

What is it exactly that the troops want? I'm just curious, have they made a statement or is this just a protest of being stripped of bonuses?

http://c2.libsyn.com/media/18778/ecuador.mp3?nvb=20100930225135&nva=20101001230135&sid=a50be835c372c7102db6d30484cba3bd&l_sid=18778&l_eid=&l_mid=2099429&t=0261307fe91bc0f4d346b

[~Spectre]

Even American generals warn that you can't really fuck around with the money of the people holding the guns.

[Ocean Seal]

So are the police revolting because of their anti-Chavez sentiment or in favor of the public workers? It seems like this could go both ways. Either a counter-revolution or a worker's revolution at least from this perspective.

[The Vegan Marxist]

Coup Attempt in Ecuador Is a Result of Sec. Clinton’s Cowardice in Honduras
By Al Giordano

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VGCT_iFOGhc&feature=player_embedded

Oh, crap. Another year, another coup in Latin America. And while today’s attempt by police forces in Ecuador went so far as to fire tear gas at elected president Rafael Correa, the military brass in the South American country have sided with the democratic order – its top general is on TV right now strongly backing the elected government – and this one isn’t likely to go as well for the anti-democracy forces as last year’s did in Honduras.

First, because the Ecuadorean people are far more advanced in social and community organization than their counterparts in Honduras were last year. Second, because the events last year in Honduras caused other center-left governments in the hemisphere to prepare for what everybody saw would be more coup attempts against them in more countries.

Additionally, we can expect in the coming hours that the police leaders responsible for todays events – you don’t need to understand Spanish to get a pretty good idea of what went down this morning by watching the above video – will be rounded up and brought to justice, as would happen in any other country, including the United States.

But, kind reader, do you know why this is even happening? Because the same unholy alliance of Latin American oligarchs who can’t stomach the rising wave of democracy in their countries – from the ex-Cubans of Miami to the ex-Venezuelans and others who have joined them in recent years – along with international crime organizations seeking new refuges and members of extreme rightist groups in the United States and elsewhere, saw their scheme work in 2009 in Honduras and took note of how quickly, after US President Barack Obama denounced the Honduras coup, his Secretary of State Hillary Clinton began playing both sides of it.

It was this newspaper, through reporter Bill Conroy’s investigations, that broke the story last August that the State Department-controlled Millennium Challenge Corporation had poured extraordinary amounts of money (http://narcosphere.narconews.com/notebook/bill-conroy/2009/08/millennium-challenge-corp-poured-millions-honduras-months-leading-putsc) into Honduras in the months leading up to the June 29, 2009 coup d’etat. And in story (http://www.narconews.com/Issue59/article3760.html) after story (http://www.narconews.com/Issue59/article3764.html), we demonstrated with documented fact how Clinton’s Millennium Challenge Corporation went so far as to violate the ban on US aid to the Honduran coup regime. Clinton’s later endorsement of farcical presidential elections and her over-reaching attempts to pretend nothing had happened in Honduras are precisely the signals that were received by today’s coup plotters in Ecuador when they made a run at toppling the democratic government there.

At present, thankfully, the coup in Ecuador seems more likely to fail than to succeed. And there will be hell to pay for those behind it. But it didn’t have to get that far. That only happened because, last year, the US Secretary of State pulled off a kind of “silent coup” in US foreign policy while her commander in chief was buried with the urgent domestic tasks stemming off economic collapse and, as everyone knows, small nations get little attention almost always anyway.

This time, the White House would do well to put a much shorter leash on its Secretary of State, because her horrendous and unforgivable anti-democratic behavior regarding the Honduras coup only fueled, and continues to fuel, understandable speculation that if the United States doesn’t walk its talk about opposing coups d’etat, then it must have been an active participant in plotting it. The mishandling of the Honduras situation last year did lasting damage to President Obama’s stated hopes to turn the page in US relations with its closest neighbors after decades of abuse and neglect. A single misstep by Secretary Clinton today and in the future regarding the events in Ecuador, like those she repeatedly made regarding Honduras, now that the hemispheric coup plotters have moved from Central America to larger South America, will further erode the cause of democracy in the entire hemisphere. I don’t trust her. Nobody south of the border does. And nor should you, Mr. President.

Update: Narco News has translated today’s Statement from the Office of President Rafael Correa (http://narcosphere.narconews.com/notebook/al-giordano/2010/09/statement-office-ecuador-president-rafael-correa).

Update II: If it holds, this will be the first time in the history of the hemisphere that the Armed Forces of a country stood up against a coup d’etat from the first moment. Now, that would be democracy at work.

Update III: The situation in Ecuador today is further complicated by the disillusion that the very social forces that elected President Correa have with his actions in office. The CONAIE (Federation of Indigenous Nationalities of Ecuador) is the leading national indigenous movement with strong alliances with labor and other social forces) held a press conference today to say that it is neither with the police forces nor with President Correa. The CONAIE and its hundreds of thousands of participants is not only responsible for Correa’s election, but its mobilizations caused the rapid-fire resignations of previous presidents of Ecuador in this century.

The situation thus also shines a light on the growing rift in the hemisphere between the statist left and the indigenous left and related autonomy and labor movements. The CONAIE is basically saying to Correa, “you want our support, then enact the agenda you were elected on.” Whether one sees this as a dangerous game of brinkmanship or something that actually strengthens Correa’s hand by placing him in the middle zone ideologically, it is worth seeing this at face value and beware of getting led astray by some of the usual suspect conspiracy theorists of the statist left who are predictably out there barking that the CONAIE is somehow an agent of imperialism, dropping rumors of US AID funding but never seeming to exhibit the hard evidence. Sigh. What Johnny-One-Notes! They wouldn’t know nuance if it slapped them in the face. For them, you either line up lock-step with THE STATE (if it is “their” state) or you’re a running dog of capitalism. That kind of Stalinist purge mentality should have died with the previous century.

The CONAIE’s grievances happen to be very legitimate. Of course, they do not justify a coup d’etat, but the CONAIE is not participating in or supporting the coup d’etat. It is saying to Correa; we’ll have your back, when you have ours. This, like the Armed Forces support for Correa, is also a historical first in the region. And the plot thickens…

Update IV: A boilerplate statement (http://www.state.gov/secretary/rm/2010/09/148481.htm) from the US State Department:


"We are closely following events in Ecuador. The United States deplores violence and lawlessness and we express our full support for President Rafael Correa, and the institutions of democratic government in that country.

"We urge all Ecuadorians to come together and to work within the framework of Ecuador’s democratic institutions to reach a rapid and peaceful restoration of order."

Now let’s see if they walk that talk…

http://narcosphere.narconews.com/thefield/4138/coup-attempt-ecuador-result-sec-clintons-cowardice-honduras

[The Vegan Marxist]

So are the police revolting because of their anti-Chavez sentiment or in favor of the public workers? It seems like this could go both ways. Either a counter-revolution or a worker's revolution at least from this perspective.

This is by no means a worker's revolt. The workers are siding with President Correa. This is a military coup, period!

[S.Artesian]

Well, i hope the military does something about this.

Maybe this will blow over over the next week.

WTF? You hope the military does something about this? Part of the military is, already, the air force that took over the airport.

Why would any Marxist support the military of a capitalist state being given ultimate power?

This isn't like Allende in Chile, except that the defense of the revolution required then before and especially during the military attack, no support to the popular unity government.

This is like Zelaya in Honduras, and will end perhaps the same way, with someone slinking off to a comfortable retirement in a phony deal while reactionaries take control.

[R_P_A_S]

Ok.. so basically the cops are mad because this new policies will cut into their benefits? also what at are all "public workers?" people who sweep the streets and other social workers? or just police? I don't get it.

[Fulanito de Tal]

Ok.. so basically the cops are mad because this new policies will cut into their benefits? also what at are all "public workers?" people who sweep the streets and other social workers? or just police? I don't get it.

It's not meant to be gotten. The reasons given are a show. The point is the elected leftist president that was somewhat anti-imperialist is being removed from power by minor, forceful group. Everything else is a show for you to swallow the bs instead of what's really happening.

[~Spectre]

Coup Attempt in Ecuador Is a Result of Sec. Clinton’s Cowardice in Honduras
By Al Giordano



What a stupid, liberal, headline.

[Barry Lyndon]

What a stupid, liberal, headline.

Agreed.
Unless by 'cowardice', one means 'active support'.

[Rusty Shackleford]

WTF? You hope the military does something about this? Part of the military is, already, the air force that took over the airport.

Why would any Marxist support the military of a capitalist state being given ultimate power?

This isn't like Allende in Chile, except that the defense of the revolution required then before and especially during the military attack, no support to the popular unity government.

This is like Zelaya in Honduras, and will end perhaps the same way, with someone slinking off to a comfortable retirement in a phony deal while reactionaries take control.

The majority of the military is on the side of correa, and correa's words wont stop the police.

[Animal Farm Pig]

Chavez and Morales have weighed in on the situation: http://www.cubadebate.cu/noticias/2010/09/30/chavez-afirma-que-correa-podria-estar-en-peligro-de-muerte-evo-condena-vergonzosa-conspiracion/

[Die Neue Zeit]

Just fire, arrest, and jail the police officers involved in these shenanigans.

[gorillafuck]

Well maybe they are some sort of "epic-fail hoxhaists"
That seems a bit redundant, don't you think?:lol:

A coup against a leftist president, albeit one who is a capitalist head of a bourgeois government, would be a major blow to the workers movement in Ecuador. Let's hope that this does not succeed or there could potentially be a serious crackdown and repression facing workers struggles in Ecuador.

[Die Neue Zeit]

WTF? You hope the military does something about this? Part of the military is, already, the air force that took over the airport.

Why would any Marxist support the military of a capitalist state being given ultimate power?

This isn't like Allende in Chile, except that the defense of the revolution required then before and especially during the military attack, no support to the popular unity government.

This is like Zelaya in Honduras, and will end perhaps the same way, with someone slinking off to a comfortable retirement in a phony deal while reactionaries take control.

1) People's history
2) "Abolition of the standing army" should apply only to ground forces. The air force, including those who took over the airport, should remain "standing" for reasons of extensive technical knowledge and training. [Ditto with any naval, air defense, rocket, or spatial forces.]

The air force takeover should be applauded, and Correa should become more like Chavez and then proceed to "managed democracy" ASAP.

[Fulanito de Tal]

http://rt.com/Top_News/2010-10-01/coup-continues-ecuador.html

Coup d'état continues in Ecuador
Published 01 October, 2010, 01:04

Chaos broke out in Ecuador when members of the nation’s military and national police forces turned to violence to protest a new law that reduces their pay and benefits.

The coup d'état has not ended and it has not failed, argued author and lawyer Eva Golinger, who is in Caracas, Venezuela. The coup d'état is ongoing, she said.

Ecuadorian President Rafael Correa said he was attacked by police with tear gas. He has been hospitalized due to injuries.

“President Correa in Ecuador has been sequestered by police and military forces. He is in a military hospital where he was taken after he was attacked by the police forces, but he’s now being detained. He is not there anymore n his own will,” said Golinger.

She explained that members of Correa’s government and his supports have attempted to gain access to the President, but the military is denying them access. Meanwhile, opposition groups have spoken out in favor of the Coup d'état and are calling for Correa’s resignation.

“The law that apparently the police were protesting seems to be just be an excuse for some plans that were already underway to execute a coup against Correa,” Golinger said.

In a telephone interview earlier in the day, Correa said there were forces working to assassinate him, but he insisted that even if he is killed his policies will continue in his absence.

Correa’s government and policies have been in conflict with the United States for years, including his rejection of a US based that had been located in the country. Today the US still maintains a presence through the US Agency for International Development and the National Endowment for Democracy.

”Some of the groups coming out calling for the president’s resignation are known as groups receiving funding from these US agencies. So, again there is an indications already in just the beginning moments of this coup that’s underway of backing from different US agencies,” said Golinger.

Coup attempts in Latin America in recent years took place in nations that are or were members of the Bolivarian Alliance, which works to oppose US hegemony in the region.

“It seems to be that this is an attempt to deter Latin American integration and independence,” said Golinger.

[S.Artesian]

1) People's history
2) "Abolition of the standing army" should apply only to ground forces. The air force, including those who took over the airport, should remaing "standing" for reasons of extensive technical knowledge. [Ditto with any naval, air defense, rocket, or spatial forces.]

The air force takeover should be applauded, and Correa should become more like Chavez and then proceed to "managed democracy" ASAP.


Brilliant. Preserve the officer corps. That's some revolution you have planned there, comrade. Save the privileged murderers. I'm sure Curtis LeMay would appreciate that. John McCain too, having been a Navy pilot charged with attacking the Vietnamese people.

Tell you what-- I'll stick with my unCorrea Marxism. No support for Correa, independent mobilization of workers and the indigenous poor against the police, against the coup.

[S.Artesian]

So it seems the military is backing the coup. Or at least part of the military is. The point is not to "good" military vs. "bad" military, but the military as an institution, an institution of capitalism.

This is the opportunity for mobilization independent of the bourgeoisie as a class, in its various populist and comprador iterations.

[Artemis3]

Tell you what-- I'll stick with my unCorrea Marxism. No support for Correa, independent mobilization of workers and the indigenous poor against the police, against the coup.

You should not forget its these workers who chose Correa to lead them in the first place, so they are mobilizing against the Police AND for Correa.

Just in, right now they are pushing for the Hospital, and are being shot at...
The military are coming to support, and are shooting back at the police.

[Nachie]

this is the opportunity for mobilization independent of the bourgeoisie as a class, in its various populist and comprador iterations.

this.

[S.Artesian]

You should not forget its these workers who chose Correa to lead them in the first place, so they are mobilizing against the Police AND for Correa.



What does that mean? Workers chose Correa? Was he elected by working class organs of power?

You can say exactly the same thing about Morales, about Mugabe, about Kirchner, about Zuma in South Africa. Hasn't stopped any of them from taking actions directly against those workers, has it?

I have no doubt that at some point, and probably this point, many workers support Correa-- as they did Allende. Didn't change a thing-- didn't change the fact that over the course of 3 years, Allende weakened the working class, strengthened the reactionary forces.

Doesn't change the fact that Correa, in opposition to the indigenous people wants to open up traditional indigenous lands to Canadian mining corporations. Doesn't change the fact that Correa stood opposed to the oil workers and indigenous protests and job actions for better standards of living.

[Red Commissar]

I don't want to see this turn into the sixth successful coup in Ecuador, that's for sure.

[~Spectre]

And here I thought that the CIA was getting lazy after the failed attempt to get Julian Assange.

[Artemis3]

The military forces are taking the hospital, many gunshots heard

[~Spectre]

.
The military are coming to support, and are shooting back at the police.

Is there evidence for this? If the military were shooting at the police then this should be under control by now.

[Artemis3]

Yes, thats exactly the current outcome, there is a live broadcast... Ppl wounded...
I believe Correa gave the order for his rescue after hearing the police shooting the people on the street.

[Die Neue Zeit]

Brilliant. Preserve the officer corps. That's some revolution you have planned there, comrade.

The question of a "standing military" is quite different from replacing the officer corps. The body as a whole is to be preserved, but random selections could replace at least most of the existing officer corps (except those *non-command* positions with technical training).


Tell you what-- I'll stick with my unCorrea Marxism. No support for Correa, independent mobilization of workers and the indigenous poor against the police, against the coup.

I didn't say anything here about supporting Correa. I applauded the air force for its anti-coup positioning.

[The Vegan Marxist]

http://rt.com/Top_News/2010-10-01/coup-continues-ecuador.html

Coup d'état continues in Ecuador
Published 01 October, 2010, 01:04

Chaos broke out in Ecuador when members of the nation’s military and national police forces turned to violence to protest a new law that reduces their pay and benefits.

The coup d'état has not ended and it has not failed, argued author and lawyer Eva Golinger, who is in Caracas, Venezuela. The coup d'état is ongoing, she said.

Ecuadorian President Rafael Correa said he was attacked by police with tear gas. He has been hospitalized due to injuries.

“President Correa in Ecuador has been sequestered by police and military forces. He is in a military hospital where he was taken after he was attacked by the police forces, but he’s now being detained. He is not there anymore n his own will,” said Golinger.

She explained that members of Correa’s government and his supports have attempted to gain access to the President, but the military is denying them access. Meanwhile, opposition groups have spoken out in favor of the Coup d'état and are calling for Correa’s resignation.

“The law that apparently the police were protesting seems to be just be an excuse for some plans that were already underway to execute a coup against Correa,” Golinger said.

In a telephone interview earlier in the day, Correa said there were forces working to assassinate him, but he insisted that even if he is killed his policies will continue in his absence.

Correa’s government and policies have been in conflict with the United States for years, including his rejection of a US based that had been located in the country. Today the US still maintains a presence through the US Agency for International Development and the National Endowment for Democracy.

”Some of the groups coming out calling for the president’s resignation are known as groups receiving funding from these US agencies. So, again there is an indications already in just the beginning moments of this coup that’s underway of backing from different US agencies,” said Golinger.

Coup attempts in Latin America in recent years took place in nations that are or were members of the Bolivarian Alliance, which works to oppose US hegemony in the region.

“It seems to be that this is an attempt to deter Latin American integration and independence,” said Golinger.

So the US is connected to this coup attempt. I'm not surprised at all. If this gets any more out of hand, I hope Venezuela or Bolivia steps in to try & save Ecuador. That would be one hell of a sight.

[Charles Xavier]

whats the latest of the situation?

[Fulanito de Tal]

Yes, thats exactly the current outcome, there is a live broadcast... Ppl wounded...
I believe Correa gave the order for his rescue after hearing the police shooting the people on the street.

Where are you getting this from?!

[S.Artesian]

The question of a "standing military" is quite different from replacing the officer corps. The body as a whole is to be preserved, but random selections could replace at least most of the existing officer corps (except those *non-command* positions with technical training).


I didn't say anything here about supporting Correa. I applauded the air force for its anti-coup positioning.


You said preserve the air force because of their "technical expertise." Maybe you aren't aware of this, but all pilots of fixed wing aircraft, and co-pilots, and navigators are commissioned officers.

Nothing I've seen or read, and that's not very much, has indicated whether the actions by the air force were pro or anti-coup.

[Die Neue Zeit]

You said preserve the air force because of their "technical expertise." Maybe you aren't aware of this, but all pilots of fixed wing aircraft, and co-pilots, and navigators are commissioned officers.

Nothing I've seen or read, and that's not very much, has indicated whether the actions by the air force were pro or anti-coup.

Thanks for the FYI.

I'll rethink this after what you said, but there has to be a middle ground between the two of us here that acknowledges the class-strugglist and even revolutionary need for technical expertise in naval, air, air defence, strategic rocket, spatial, and other non-ground military areas.

[Magón]

I didn't even know, but my friend is actually in Ecuador doing a study on something down there, and called my room mate when it happened. He said people were all in an uproar and that sirens and all this other crazy chaotic stuff was going on when the attack occurred. I don't think anyone thought it was a Coup, but people were definitely worried about the Prez and stuff. Wish I'd been down there! :mad:

[~Spectre]

I didn't even know, but my friend is actually in Ecuador doing a study on something down there, and called my room mate when it happened. He said people were all in an uproar and that sirens and all this other crazy chaotic stuff was going on when the attack occurred. I don't think anyone thought it was a Coup, but people were definitely worried about the Prez and stuff. Wish I'd been down there! :mad:

Call him and tell him to give Revleft an update.

[S.Artesian]

Thanks for the FYI.

I'll rethink this after what you said, but there has to be a middle ground between the two of us here that acknowledges the class-strugglist and even revolutionary need for technical expertise in naval, air, air defence, strategic rocket, spatial, and other non-ground military areas.

I honestly do not know why such technical expertise, a useful value, requires we maintain the social form, the "exchange value" of a professional military.

You might give some thought to the history and functioning of the military in Latin America, including, yes the left-populist military of a Chavez, or a Peron.

[ckaihatsu]

Thanks for the FYI.

I'll rethink this after what you said, but there has to be a middle ground between the two of us here that acknowledges the class-strugglist and even revolutionary need for technical expertise in naval, air, air defence, strategic rocket, spatial, and other non-ground military areas.


You're edging towards a decidedly *technocratic* political stance here, DNZ -- on that road you'll soon wind up at some kind of bureaucratic collectivist groupthink, or Stalinism, no matter how well-intended initially.

- Are there technical-minded and -oriented workers within the working class? Yes, of course.

- Should we differentiate that collection of technical workers as a distinct *sector* of the working class, with separate interests from those of all other kinds of workers around them? No, of course not. Obviously it's to *capital's* advantage to do exactly this, and to aggravatingly sub-divide and hyper-compartmentalize workers according to their subsets of skills, in an assembly-line factory-system way....

Maybe the reason you've been given pause here is because the air force personnel *happened* to be upholding the office of a left-leaning populist president, by default, just by doing their jobs according to procedure. No need to get misty-eyed about it, though...(!)

[Die Neue Zeit]

^^^ Ckaihatsu, I already wrote this in the Appendix of my older CSR pamphlet:

1) At least some organs of collapsing state power (such as parliaments, “imperial presidencies” and cabinets, and law enforcement apart from investigative organs) are to be smashed immediately by either traditional armed “revolution” or “well-defended” mass strikes;
2) Organs of workers’ power (not necessarily soviets, contrary to the reductionist organizational fetish with the soviet form) are to be elevated in replacing smashed organs of state power;
3) Remaining organs of state power are to be transformed either into additional but temporary organs of workers’ power (democratic but hierarchical and internally uncritical offense-oriented militaries as a supplementary means of spreading revolution, as mentioned in Chapter 6 and contrary to Lenin’s overly optimistic appraisal of non-hierarchical workers’ militias and post-decision criticisms expressed within them) or into new organs of state administration (law enforcement investigative organs and internment organizations for, in Lenin’s words, “suppressing both exploiters and hooligans” in a purely administrative fashion); and
4) Organs of state administration (the civil bureaucracy), while existing, are to be transformed such that they will be destined for irrelevance at some future point.




I honestly do not know why such technical expertise, a useful value, requires we maintain the social form, the "exchange value" of a professional military.

You might give some thought to the history and functioning of the military in Latin America, including, yes the left-populist military of a Chavez, or a Peron.

To be fair, a lot of the militaries in Latin America are neither really "professional enough" nor well-trained. :lol:

[NecroCommie]

Tell you what-- I'll stick with my unCorrea Marxism. No support for Correa, independent mobilization of workers and the indigenous poor against the police, against the coup.
What is this left communist sectarianism? This is the kind of attitude why the german revolution failed in 1918. The point here is not that: "ooh, we are making a marxist revolution and saving some important leftist country", NO! The point is that the welfare of the people is in much greater risk if the coup succeeds.

Not fighting your enemy (the military coup) is a bit daft if the only reason for it is that there are also some reformists i your ranks.

[Ligeia]

The intent for a coup d'etat has ended. The armed forces rescued Correa in the night.
YVyKB8UAagE


President Rafael Correa of Ecuador has been rescued from a siege at the hands of rebel police in the capital Quito.
He returned to the Presidential Palace where he addressed a crowd of thousands of jubilant supporters from the balcony, saying he had been through the saddest day of his government.
The left wing leader had been holed up in a hospital, barricaded in by renegade police after what he described as an attempted coup.


Soldiers loyal to the president launched an assault from outside the hospital. Shots were heard as they took on the rebels, amid fierce fighting.
The president was freed. In his speech he said one policeman had “fallen” in the unrest.
In a day of turmoil, President Correa says he was attacked by police protesters. He was seen struggling for breath and suffering from the effects of tear gas.
The disturbances also spread to Guayaquil in the south and other cities. Neighbouring Peru and Colombia closed their borders.
Other Latin American countries and the US declared their support for the beleaguered president.
Source (http://www.euronews.net/2010/10/01/ecuador-troops-free-trapped-president/)

[Fulanito de Tal]

I love it!

http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h111/durancm/FailedEcuadorianCoup.jpg

http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h111/durancm/TroopfreeEcuadorianPrez.jpg

http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h111/durancm/TroopfreeEcuadorianPrez2.jpg

[ckaihatsu]

You should not forget its these workers who chose Correa to lead them in the first place, so they are mobilizing against the Police AND for Correa.








What does that mean? Workers chose Correa? Was he elected by working class organs of power?

You can say exactly the same thing about Morales, about Mugabe, about Kirchner, about Zuma in South Africa. Hasn't stopped any of them from taking actions directly against those workers, has it?

I have no doubt that at some point, and probably this point, many workers support Correa-- as they did Allende. Didn't change a thing-- didn't change the fact that over the course of 3 years, Allende weakened the working class, strengthened the reactionary forces.

Doesn't change the fact that Correa, in opposition to the indigenous people wants to open up traditional indigenous lands to Canadian mining corporations. Doesn't change the fact that Correa stood opposed to the oil workers and indigenous protests and job actions for better standards of living.





Tell you what-- I'll stick with my unCorrea Marxism. No support for Correa, independent mobilization of workers and the indigenous poor against the police, against the coup.





What is this left communist sectarianism? This is the kind of attitude why the german revolution failed in 1918. The point here is not that: "ooh, we are making a marxist revolution and saving some important leftist country", NO! The point is that the welfare of the people is in much greater risk if the coup succeeds.

Not fighting your enemy (the military coup) is a bit daft if the only reason for it is that there are also some reformists i your ranks.


What S.Artesian is saying is *not* left communist sectarianism -- he / she / we are being *critical* of Correa during events in which he is being rescued by the larger military forces of Ecuador.

What just played out yesterday is relatively *minor*, arguably -- the biggest concern, still unresolved, is what hand the *U.S.* had in all of this, and to what extent, if any. (People have mentioned these events following on the heels of last year's U.S.-backed coup in Honduras that overthrew Zelaya.)

No one here is expressing support for, or ignoring, the breakaway section of the police that decided to take Correa hostage -- from what I've gathered about the *size* of this police section the action can't really even be considered a 'coup' -- it was more like an aggrieved party within the state apparatus, and was an *internal* matter to the Ecuadorian state, subsequently handled by its military.

I didn't see anything about larger political demands that would've involved the whole country. It was really just a matter of business that got out of hand and turned into a hostage situation -- nothing more. We, as *political* people, can continue our regular critique from the left regarding Correa's tepid populism.

[Artemis3]

The thing is not only the Police was involved, but also their Air Force closed the Airport and were showing sings with similar demands. It seems, however, they were all puppets of Lucio Gutierrez, who instigated them using lies about a new law (which ends benefiting them more, not less); Intead of earning 250$ a month and an 800$ bonus after 5 years, they now earn 700$ a month, and such. They were lied and manipulated in the benefit of the minuscule Gutierrez group. And thats the people getting US funds... However, like the Venezuelan opposition, he also wasted the money doing stupid things, now probably losing his few supporters inside the police and air force. The guy is an idiot, and the USA gov. are bigger idiots supporting the likes of him; all well deserved of course. Now Correa has even bigger popular support, like Chavez after the failed coup, failed owner's lockout, failed street takeovers, too many lost elections, etc.

If you were cheering for the opposition in Ecuador, i think you are going to be disappointed, and its always the right/extreme right the US gives money. Even if you root for the smaller ultra-left, they are quickly disposed after the right takes over. So no, hating progressive latin-american leaders won't get you many sympathies in the region... Especially with US Imperialism supporting right wing groups, YOU become their tools while it benefits them, instead of the opposite.

Criticism is good, as long as you don't cross the line. When the workers are supporting a guy you don't like, you should NOT take arms side to side with the right counter-revolutionaries.

Correa, Chavez, Morales and others are well respected in the region, like it or not, they are refueling workers struggle towards a much better future.

[RadioRaheem84]

Ironically, the saving grace in two attempted coups in Latin America has been the military forces!

[Crux]

Criticism is good, as long as you don't cross the line. When the workers are supporting a guy you don't like, you should NOT take arms side to side with the right counter-revolutionaries.
Who here is "taking up arms"? Seriously?

[RedScare]

Shoo, the US gov. is losing it's touch when it comes to destabilization of political opponents. Good for Correa and the people of Ecuador

[KurtFF8]

Ironically, the saving grace in two attempted coups in Latin America has been the military forces!

How is that "ironic"? Military support has been pretty important in the Left swing in Latin America in general

[The Vegan Marxist]

How is that "ironic"? Military support has been pretty important in the Left swing in Latin America in general

Exactly. I don't see what's wrong in having a military backing a Socialist government. It's tactical, & in a lot of cases, as we can clearly see, it's necessary.

[S.Artesian]

Exactly. I don't see what's wrong in having a military backing a Socialist government. It's tactical, & in a lot of cases, as we can clearly see, it's necessary.

It's not a socialist government. Come on, pay attention here. There's nothing socialist about Correa.

[The Vegan Marxist]

It's not a socialist government. Come on, pay attention here. There's nothing socialist about Correa.

They're pro-socialist, though, like Venezuela. Correa isn't exactly the best choice, but they're still pro-socialist.

[KurtFF8]

It's not a socialist government. Come on, pay attention here. There's nothing socialist about Correa.

Right, we probably should have backed the police here!

[Ismail]

The Hoxhaist MPD (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Movimiento_Popular_Democr%C3%A1tico) in Ecuador on the present situation:

http://www.mpd15.org.ec/boletines1.php#ma42

Google Translate:

The National Executive of the Popular Democratic Movement, to the events that occurred yesterday in the country, notes solely responsible to President Rafael Correa, who in an attitude of arrogance challenged in Quito Regiment to the police, who made use of the right constitutional resistance, which degenerated into clashes that we all know.

The people of Ecuador, the troops and military police along with social and popular organizations, launched a righteous protest against the adoption of neoliberal laws, sent to the Assembly by Correa, these laws remain acquired rights public servants and encourages the dismissal of 225,000 workers.

The MPD, rejects the violation of the right of freedom of expression the regime committed yesterday in the state of emergency and the only voice heard is the official channel, restricting freedom of expression, selling the world the false information of a coup attempt, when in our country that there is a people who disagree with government policy which aims to pass laws affecting the achievements and rights of workers and peoples of Ecuador.

The revolutionary left supports popular actions, which today has risen in protest along with thousands of public servants in the country, with social organizations continue raising actions to continue the defense of university autonomy, our natural resources, national sovereignty, by the way of real change in the New Nation and Socialism.

We reiterate the call for unity of all political leftist, progressive, workers, teachers, students, peasants, indigenous people, to prevent President Correa to continue violating their human and constitutional rights of all social sectors.

[KurtFF8]

Well I guess some folks on the Left did actually come out in support of the police (and their private media backers, etc. etc.)

[Ismail]

Well I guess some folks on the Left did actually come out in support of the police (and their private media backers, etc. etc.)The MPD has always condemned Correa as a right-wing neo-liberal, just as the Venezuelan Hoxhaists (who Chávez in the 1970's was involved in trying to crush a rebellion of theirs) condemn Chávez, etc. The difference is that in Venezuela one section condemns him as a "social-fascist," whereas the other section critically supports him. It seems in Ecuador that just about all of the Hoxhaists are against Correa. In 2002 some Hoxhaists in Venezuela took part in the coup attempt then, apparently. As a note Hoxhaists in Iran endorsed the protests there back when they happened.

[gorillafuck]

Right, we probably should have backed the police here!
Opposing Correa doesn't mean supporting the coup.

They're pro-socialist, though, like Venezuela. Correa isn't exactly the best choice, but they're still pro-socialist.
Are they? Doesn't seem like it to me.

Doesn't change the fact that Correa, in opposition to the indigenous people wants to open up traditional indigenous lands to Canadian mining corporations. Doesn't change the fact that Correa stood opposed to the oil workers and indigenous protests and job actions for better standards of living.

[S.Artesian]

Right, we probably should have backed the police here!

No, you oppose the police without supporting Correa. You might want to look at the history of the Russian Revolution-- how those funny guys called the Bolsheviks handled Kornilov's attempt, how they used that attempt to actually undermine the Kerensky PRG and brought the question of independent working class rule to the forefront.

This may come as a shock to some, but when a military coup was attempted, the Bolsheviks did not call for the defense of the "liberal" "democratic" government.

[S.Artesian]

They're pro-socialist, though, like Venezuela. Correa isn't exactly the best choice, but they're still pro-socialist.

Exactly what constitutes "pro-socialism" ? What pro-socialist, as we know socialism to be the social expropriation of private property, actions has Correa taken?

[Barry Lyndon]

[QUOTE=Ismail;1882130]The MPD has always condemned Correa as a right-wing neo-liberal, just as the Venezuelan Hoxhaists (who Chávez in the 1970's was involved in trying to crush a rebellion of theirs) condemn Chávez, etc. The difference is that in Venezuela one section condemns him as a "social-fascist," whereas the other section critically supports him. It seems in Ecuador that just about all of the Hoxhaists are against Correa. In 2002 some Hoxhaists in Venezuela took part in the coup attempt then, apparently. [QUOTE]

That says everything one needs to know about your politics. A rotten combination of the worst of both worlds, ultra-Stalinism and ultra-leftism.

[RadioRaheem84]

Chavez and Morales are the only real left wing alternatives in Latin America. Chavez is the only one I mostly support, Morales a close second. It's all downhill from there.

Lula is a third way Soc Dem

Correra and Kirchner are liberal developmentalists of the old variant that was seen during the Cold War (ala Arbenz of Guatemala) before most of them were disposed of for right wing juntas. Correra's economic influence comes Ha Joon Chang, the Cambridge Economist who was taught by a Marxist but developed structural left-Keynesian strategies for developmental growth.

[Nolan]

That says everything one needs to know about your politics. A rotten combination of the worst of both worlds, ultra-Stalinism and ultra-leftism.

This comment is so theoretically nonsensical it should just be trashed.

[Crux]

No, you oppose the police without supporting Correa. You might want to look at the history of the Russian Revolution-- how those funny guys called the Bolsheviks handled Kornilov's attempt, how they used that attempt to actually undermine the Kerensky PRG and brought the question of independent working class rule to the forefront.

This may come as a shock to some, but when a military coup was attempted, the Bolsheviks did not call for the defense of the "liberal" "democratic" government.
Is there any comparable force to the soviets and the bolsheviks present in Ecuador that could step in and take command? I don't think it is at the present and I think we run the risk of a military coup, a la Honduras. I think we should place ourselves at the forefront of the struggle against the golpistas, if the experience of honduras is anything to go by, this can also radicalize the movement.

[S.Artesian]

Is there any comparable force to the soviets and the bolsheviks present in Ecuador that could step in and take command? I don't think it is at the present and I think we run the risk of a military coup, a la Honduras. I think we should place ourselves at the forefront of the struggle against the golpistas, if the experience of honduras is anything to go by, this can also radicalize the movement.

I doubt that there is anything equivalent to soviets in Ecuador as yet, but in Honduras, defense committees, strike committees, sprang up and were organized under the leadership of union members.

Certainly we should participate in those working class organizations, and defend them, while proposing specific united class demands as opposed to the sort of demands that became dominant in Honduras-- "Restore Zelaya," etc.--

Honduras failed. And if failed for several reasons, not the least of which was the inability to break with the notion of "constituent assembly" and "restoring the legal government."

[KurtFF8]

The MPD has always condemned Correa as a right-wing neo-liberal, just as the Venezuelan Hoxhaists (who Chávez in the 1970's was involved in trying to crush a rebellion of theirs) condemn Chávez, etc. The difference is that in Venezuela one section condemns him as a "social-fascist," whereas the other section critically supports him. It seems in Ecuador that just about all of the Hoxhaists are against Correa. In 2002 some Hoxhaists in Venezuela took part in the coup attempt then, apparently. As a note Hoxhaists in Iran endorsed the protests there back when they happened.

So pretty much, your line is that "both sides" need to be opposed in favor of a "true revolutionary" wing to take up a revolution. The problem here, of course, is that there doesn't seem to be a revolutionary wing in a place like Ecuador during these events that would have been able to oppose the police and Correa, so why take a "neutral" stance or even worse: oppose Correa in the midst of a reactionary coup attempt?

That doesn't equate to support for Correa's method of bringing about socialism, but at the same time, he is a part of the leftward swing in Latin America, and opposing him while a coup is in progress can only be interpreted as tacit support of the coup. Once the coup is fully defeated, then it's time to start criticizing him, but right now is not the time for that. Just look at what happened in Honduras when folks on the left likely also said "well yes the coup is bad but I don't want to go on defending Zelaya!" Now the Honduran working class is in a much worse position than they were before the coup, in every way.

When the FBI raids happened against FRSO and some anti-war groups, I didn't see too many people come out and say "well yes I'm opposed to FBI raids, but we need to remember the FRSO is wrong because of X Y and Z so why should we support them?!!!" it's simply counter-productive.

[Crux]

I doubt that there is anything equivalent to soviets in Ecuador as yet, but in Honduras, defense committees, strike committees, sprang up and were organized under the leadership of union members.

Certainly we should participate in those working class organizations, and defend them, while proposing specific united class demands as opposed to the sort of demands that became dominant in Honduras-- "Restore Zelaya," etc.--

Honduras failed. And if failed for several reasons, not the least of which was the inability to break with the notion of "constituent assembly" and "restoring the legal government."
Point taken but I think the field for radicalization is more open in ecuador, at present it's hard to access the character of the protests, but given the prominence of the right-wing opposition I think that we have to take strong position against the golpistas while at the same time building an independent working class force. A Correa government saved by the popular movement would be a Correa government that would be forced to the left.

[Ismail]

A rotten combination of the worst of both worlds, ultra-Stalinism and ultra-leftism.Struggling for socialism is "ultra-leftism" and not backing rightists is "ultra-leftism"? Nice to know. In 1982 Hoxha called for Marxist-Leninists in Poland to oppose both Solidarity and the state-capitalist regime, and to form independent labor unions. Was Hoxha "ultra-left" there?

As a note, more from the MPD:

The National Executive of the Popular Democratic Movement expresses its support and solidarity with the protests carried out by the troops of the National Police which obviously disagrees with the veto to the Public Service Act eliminating entitlements as recognition of their service through bonuses, awards and other benefits fair.

Luis Villacís Maldonado, National Director of the MPD, noted that the impact on the interests of the troops of the National Police is part of the anti-popular policy of the government which also affects all public employees, the teachers, universities, indigenous peoples, workers in general. Police members have expressed dissatisfaction these days in the country against an authoritarian politics that have little or no different from those applied by previous neoliberal governments.

Emepedista leader noted that continue to support the protests across the country, designed to enforce the Constitution regarding the rights for the causes of teachers, universities, police, public servants, indigenous, workers in defense of sovereignty, by a New Nation to break with the abuses of the current regime.
The problem here, of course, is that there doesn't seem to be a revolutionary wing in a place like Ecuador during these events that would have been able to oppose the police and Correa, so why take a "neutral" stance or even worse: oppose Correa in the midst of a reactionary coup attempt?Correa is a right-wing liberal, there is no "coup attempt," it's just protests and Correa sacking the Chief of Police as part of his "victorious defeat of the coup" or whatever. As for revolutionary politics, the MPD is the legal wing of the PCMLE, which is growing in influence and has plenty of militias and such since it practiced guerrilla warfare in the 1970's and 80's.

[S.Artesian]

Point taken but I think the field for radicalization is more open in ecuador, at present it's hard to access the character of the protests, but given the prominence of the right-wing opposition I think that we have to take strong position against the golpistas while at the same time building an independent working class force. A Correa government saved by the popular movement would be a Correa government that would be forced to the left.

I agree with an independent movement. I do not agree that a Correa government "saved" by a popular movement would be forced to the left.

Look at the history of Allende's Popular Unity government in Chile. Look at the MNR in Bolivia 1952-1964. Hell, look at Obregon, Calles in Mexico after the revolution.

[Roach]

Lula is a third way Soc Dem

No he isn't.He is an Neo-Liberal Populist trying to hide in an Social Democrat mask , just like Correa.

[Fulanito de Tal]

Chavez and Morales are the only real left wing alternatives in Latin America.

Don't forget the Castros and the Cuban population. They are also part of Latin-America. :thumbup1:

[Ismail]

As a random fun fact, the Greek Hoxhaists (the KKE 1918-55 group, the people that call Ludo Marten's Another View of Stalin an anti-Stalin work) actually called for solidarity with Anarchist protesters back when the protests were in full swing, and condemned the revisionist, right-wing KKE for condemning the protesters and siding with the government.

Anyway, here is a statement by the PCMLE (http://www.pcmle.org/) (the actual Hoxhaist CP in Ecuador, which controls the MPD):

With a huge military deployment, only applicable for large battles, the Colombian army, monitored and directed from the Pentagon, bombed the rebel camp of the FARC-EP in which the commander Jorge Briceno, Mono Jojoy was, causing his death Like others of his comrades. The joy of Colombian President, Juan Manuel Santos is enormous cause of this "success" and criminal operation. Days before this event, the armed forces of that country dealt a further blow to the insurgent group, for that Santos gave thanks to the cooperation of the Army of Ecuador.

In these same days the U.S. government approved the award of an additional $15 million for the implementation of Plan Ecuador, according to its inspiring, aims to combat drug trafficking and promoting development in the Ecuadorian side of the border with Colombia. It came amid official visit to the Ecuador defense minister, Javier Ponce, made to the United States, where he met with Pentagon chief Robert Gates. About the things that are knew in public Ponce asked to US insist Colombia to makes a militarily control in the border with our country. Surely the Minister will have arrived in other agreements on behalf of the Ecuadorian government. Ecuador has deployed more than 10 thousand military effectives on the border with Colombia, a figure never covered in the past, fulfilling the role of retaining wall to the Colombian rebel forces, the military readiness necessary for the implementation of Plan Colombia. Since Hillary Clinton was here, on this land was also the secretary of state of the U.S. to Latin America, Arturo Valenzuela, Javier Ponce now visit the Pentagon and Juan Manuel Santos thanked the Ecuadorian government for their military service in the counterinsurgency fight. There are not simple visits, are manifestations of a government policy of rapprochement and agreements with U.S. imperialism.But Correa is gloriously defying the US, I'm sure. The PCMLE and FARC-EP have held meetings before, and the few Hoxhaist guerrillas in Colombia (those that didn't demilitarize in the early 90's) work with the FARC-EP, which is something I doubt an actual rightist/ultra-leftist group would do.

[Roach]

Funny that I've talked about Correa's Social-Dem mask on my last post,the PCR an brazilian hoxhaist party has published an article with the same name:http://www.averdade.org.br/modules/news/article.php?storyid=592

Correa without his mask

After being elected president of Ecuador in 2009, by promising to make dramatic changes in his country, in what he called a "citizen revolution", Rafael Correa left side of his program of change and began to adopt a neoliberal policy of tightening the salaries of civil servants, budget cuts in social programs, strong repression of the popular movement and total subservience to the U.S. government.

The police riot that occurred on September 29 was not therefore an isolated incident. For months the popular movement held strikes and demonstrations demanding better living conditions and dialogue with the government of Correa. He, however, refuses to engage with popular organizations and orders to arrest anyone who criticizes his government, as it did with the student and president of the Federation of University Students of Ecuador (FEUE), Marcelo Rivera, who was arrested nine months ago under the infamous prosecution of terrorists.

Indeed, an intense struggle is unfolding in Ecuador. On one hand, a people conscious of their rights and their strength, that does not accept a government that demeans the union movement, indigenous peoples, peasants, teachers and leftist parties and disregards their rights. On the other, a president who although elected by the people, behaves arrogant and dictatorial.

Correa's coup

On day 29, the police and much of the country's armed forces revolted against the arbitrary decision of Rafael Correa to end the payment of bonuses to the military, which would lead to a reduction in current salaries by more than 30%.
Aware of the uprising, Correa, of malice aforethought, went to the Rules of Quito, where the police were holding a demonstration. Entered the building and no one beat him or touched him. Correa asked for a microphone and was attended by police officials, who expected the president declared to be favorable to trading. But Correa was surprised and began to provoke the police saying, "You are an ungrateful group of thugs." "If you want to kill the president, here it is! Kill me. "
The police started yelling and Correa could not talk anymore. An aide put a mask against the gas pumps, the same as Correa ordered the police to play against the striking teachers.

Strangely, Correa was the one who got sick. No advisor to the president even without the mask had nausea or staggered.
After provocation, Correa asked the Army to withdraw to the barracks, although he was not arrested. Next was the Palace and gave an interview accusing the police of seeking to make a coup.

However, Correa himself was giving the coup against democracy in Ecuador to declare state of emergency to suppress freedom of organization, expression and manifestation
and give the army the right to raid homes and arrest anyone who wants without court authorization. Correa measures were immediate and strong support of Hillary Clinton, Secretary of State of the United States. There is even suspicion that before the decree, Correa called the White House.
Democracy is at risk but in Ecuador. But the main conspirator against it's own that President Correa wants to rule in a dictatorial manner as he revealed his decree establishing a state of siege against the people who decided to build a nation free from foreign domination and that no longer accepts being deceived or humiliated.

This is Rafael Correa unmasked.

The people of Ecuador have a rich history of struggle for freedom and always defeated those who underestimated him. Today, most live a hard fight for independence and against the traitors of the motherland. Not the first nor the last, but in the end will win again.


September 30, 2010
Central Committee of the Revolutionary Communist Party (PCR)

[Barry Lyndon]

a)Struggling for socialism is "ultra-leftism" and not backing rightists is "ultra-leftism"? Nice to know. In 1982 Hoxha called for Marxist-Leninists in Poland to oppose both Solidarity and the state-capitalist regime, and to form independent labor unions. Was Hoxha "ultra-left" there?

As a note, more from the MPD:
b) Correa is a right-wing liberal, there is no "coup attempt," it's just protests and Correa sacking the Chief of Police as part of his "victorious defeat of the coup" or whatever. As for revolutionary politics, the MPD is the legal wing of the PCMLE, which is growing in influence and has plenty of militias and such since it practiced guerrilla warfare in the 1970's and 80's.

a) Literally joining hands with a right-wing coup de tat, which if it succeeded would have made conditions demonstrably worse for the workers of Ecuador, is ultra-leftist and from a class perspective practically treasonous. Just look at Honduras.
Hoxha was able to make these 'principled' pronouncements because he was the head of an isolated state with virtually no influence on world affairs, largely by choice.

b) Yes, the irresistable mass tide of Hoxhaism that led them win about 1% of the national vote in the last elections. And this is the largest Hoxhaist party in the world.
A true force to be reckoned with.

It's pretty funny that you go on and on about how badass 'anti-revisionist' the Hoxhaists are, how they are so pure blah blah blah, but when a situation arose in which Hoxhaists(even in their small numbers) could have actually DONE something their acolytes stood with the forces of reaction. As Iv'e told you before, I don't care about what Communists say, but what they DO.

But your tendency has made this its hobby, by supporting aparthied in Angola(you praised Savimbi, the CIA's stooge, as having a 'private Marxism' lol), advocating rebellion against the Sandanistas when they were beseiged by the Contras, and numerous other stupid, counter-revolutionary tactics.

I don't think Correa is a revolutionary or a socialist, he is pretty clearly a social democrat. But to call him 'right-wing' and 'social fascist' indicates that neither you or your ideological brethern in Ecuador have any idea what their talking about.

[Ismail]

a) Literally joining hands with a right-wing coup de tat, which if it succeeded would have made conditions demonstrably worse for the workers of Ecuador, is ultra-leftist and from a class perspective practically treasonous. Just look at Honduras.Correa is seeking an autocratic, right-wing government in Ecuador. The conditions of workers in Ecuador are not improving at all.


Hoxha was able to make these 'principled' pronouncements because he was the head of an isolated state with virtually no influence on world affairs, largely by choice.Now you're copying Khad's "geo-strategic" views which replace proletarian internationalism with the "left-wing" equivalent of Mao's Three Worlds Theory.


b) Yes, the irresistable mass tide of Hoxhaism that led them win about 1% of the national vote in the last elections. And this is the largest Hoxhaist party in the world.They're doing their part in Ecuador, aren't they?


A true force to be reckoned with.As opposed to the USSR, which was state-capitalist and social-imperialist and is now truly not a force to be reckoned with, after it ingloriously fell owing to its anti-communism. At least the PCMLE/MPD is growing.


It's pretty funny that you go on and on about how badass 'anti-revisionist' the Hoxhaists are, how they are so pure blah blah blah, but when a situation arose in which Hoxhaists(even in their small numbers) could have actually DONE something their acolytes stood on the sidelines with the forces of reaction.They aren't on the side of reaction nor are they on the sidelines. They have a very large influence among University students and teachers, and hold protests all the time. Right now they're actively participating in the protests.


But your tendency has made this its hobby, by supporting aparthied in Angola(you praised Savimbi, the CIA's stooge, as having a 'private Marxism' lol), advocating rebellion against the Sandanistas when they were beseiged by the Contras, and numerous other stupid, counter-revolutionary tactics.Hoxha condemned UNITA (as do we, I just said that Savimbi was more of a "leftist" than the right-wing MPLA and that Savimbi probably retained his Maoism in private), and Hoxha also supported the Sandinista Government in Nicaragua. The MLPUSA, which it is alleged had CIA infiltration (http://www.mltranslations.org/US/fbiml.htm) within it, backed a rogue "Hoxhaist" group in Nicaragua which called for "civil war" against the Sandinistas, and supported Chamorro in the 1990 elections. The MLPUSA itself criticized Hoxha and Albania all the time during the 1980's despite the party's nominally "pro-Albanian" stand.

Here's an example of some MPD protests earlier in the year: http://coffeemarxist.wordpress.com/2010/05/04/to-all-anti-hoxhaist-idiots/


But to call him 'right-wing' and 'social fascist' indicates that neither you or your ideological brethern in Ecuador have any idea what their talking about.I do not call him a social-fascist, nor does the MPD or any other Hoxhaist organization. We do, however, call him a reactionary, right-wing, pro-US neo-liberal.

[Roach]

This the PCMLE oficial statement:

Comrades,


Police and military units are gathered together in various parts of the country against a government law which limited the benefits to military and police. The police and military troops are harmed by the authoritarian politics of Rafael Correa, like what happens with teachers, indigenous people, peasants, students, retirees and civil servants. President Rafael Correa was violently rejected in the regiment of Quito and several units of the country rebelled to defend their aspirations.


It should be clear that these actions of police and military troops receive the support of popular organizations and the left, and in no way depart from a "coup plot", as the government contends. It is an indignant reaction against the arrogance, and abuse of a government that does not respect the accomplishments, which harms the rights and aspirations of the people.


This movement needs to be supported by all sectors of popular, progressive and democratic social and political organizations of the left and the Communists. We express the streets and demand with all the energy that the National Assembly meets, reject the president's veto, the law of public service and the law of higher education, so that it complies with the requirements of various popular sectors.


It is necessary and urgent actions to support those speeches and demonstrations, to develop the broadest unity of the popular sectors and strengthen the unity between the MPD and Pachacutic.


Let's work for the convening of a Multinational Assembly in Quito, composed of all social organizations for this Saturday October 02. We support the struggle of the people and we call progressive sectors to come together. The government talks of a "death cross", but it should be noted that we have no fear, we face Correa and his arrogant and authoritarian attitudes.


Comrades, the situation calls for urgent and decisive action. We will fulfill our revolutionary role.

Fraternally

Pablo Miranda, a first secretary of the Marxist-Leninist Communist Party of Ecuador (PCMLE)

[The Vegan Marxist]

What's the PCMLE's view towards Venezuela?

[Barry Lyndon]

a) Correa is seeking an autocratic, right-wing government in Ecuador. The conditions of workers in Ecuador are not improving at all.

b) Now you're copying Khad's "geo-strategic" views which replace proletarian internationalism with the "left-wing" equivalent of Mao's Three Worlds Theory.

c) They're doing their part in Ecuador, aren't they?

d) As opposed to the USSR, which was state-capitalist and social-imperialist and is now truly not a force to be reckoned with, after it ingloriously fell owing to its anti-communism.

e) They aren't on the side of reaction nor are they on the sidelines. They have a very large influence among University students and teachers, and hold protests all the time. Right now they're actively participating in the protests.

Here's an example of some MPD protests earlier in the year: http://coffeemarxist.wordpress.com/2010/05/04/to-all-anti-hoxhaist-idiots/

f) I do not call him a social-fascist, nor does the MPD or any other Hoxhaist organization. We do, however, call him a reactionary, right-wing, pro-US neo-liberal.

a) :rolleyes: But they would be better under a right-wing neo-liberal dictatorship, right?
How is Correa autocratic? He was elected. Could you please stop sounding like Fox News?

b) Uhhh no, not at all. I just think that in order to be an actually internationalist revolution, one has to actually provide supplies, weapons, financial support. Size of country has nothing to do with it-look at Cuba's contributions to African national liberation.

c) They are-all 1% of them.

d) Yeah, it didn't collapse due to the stifling, bloated bureacracy and lack of workers democracy that had existed since the 1920's.
Or constant economic and military siege imposed on it by capitalist powers.
Some bad men just woke up some day and decided to become 'revisionists'.

Btw, I don't appreciate your slander that I'm a 'Brezhnevite'-Iv'e never praised the Brezhnev and hold to the Trotskyist analysis that it was a degenerated workers state until 1991. Please be honest in your argumentation.

e) Blah blah blah blah

f) Yes, so pro-US that he expelled the US military from Ecuador and is allied with Hugo Chavez and Evo Morales, two fellows who are all kissy kissy with Washington these days.

[S.Artesian]

This is a bit too much. The rebellion of the police and the military-- a police and military that have been, are, and will be again, used to suppress the organization and resistance of the workers, the urban and rural poor-- must be supported by the workers, the urban and rural poor without the police and military renouncing, of course, their role as institutions suppressing the workers, the urban and rural poor.

If their are element in the military and the policy interested in a revolutionary struggle, a revolutionary opposition to Correa, then where and what is their program for that struggle, the concrete proposals for such an alliance. Do they reject the role of being utilized to break strikes, arrest and intimidate workers, protestors, etc? Do they propose abolition of their own officers, and integrating themselves under some sort of revolutionary discipline?

Do they propose anything regarding the conditions of agricultural workers on the banana plantations? The treatment of indigenous peoples? Anything?

[Ismail]

What's the PCMLE's view towards Venezuela?The ICMLPO (which is the most notable Hoxhaist "Internationale") removed the strongly anti-Chávez Bandera Roja from the organization in 2005 after accusing it of being CIA-infiltrated. The PCMLV was its replacement, and a blog post in May from the party stated that (Google Translate):

In Venezuela the Chavez government has taken some measures, but do not solve problems structurally, is a palliative that allows grassroots survive, preserving and recovering lost profits even during times of neoliberalism, with this we can not call misleading, this is not socialism, are pragmatic measures to maintain a certain standard of living that can only produce and reproduce the labor force, compared with other countries in the region have great privileges, but compared to what really is required for life, the minimum wage is negligible, inflation is rising, like the dollar, this is accompanied by hoarding, speculation, destabilization, as part of the imperialist offensive and the national bourgeoisie, a glimpse into an intense political turmoil ahead of September's legislative elections.

In this scenario, marked by the election campaign, the ruling party confirms its position as multi-class party, their methods are the same bourgeois democracy in its latest internal process the petty bourgeoisie emerged as the address, in the ideological and political with a speech about socialism but with a capitalist practice, the popular sectors and workers are the major excluded. From this experience the working class and the revolutionary sectors that harbor illusions about this type of organization, they must understand that only the party of the proletariat based on democratic centralism, combative, and united the people under the program of the working class can make real progress towards socialism, others are experiments that may eventually lead to an onslaught of reaction, which still have high rates of power, especially in the economic system and thus create shortages, shortages of products, price increases and speculation, to which government measures are inefficient.

We work hard so that the working class to assume its leadership role and lead the struggle of the exploited and oppressed against bourgeois [email protected]:

But they would be better under a right-wing neo-liberal dictatorship, right?You mean what Correa is trying to establish?


Uhhh no, not at all. I just think that in order to be an actually internationalist revolution, one has to actually provide supplies, weapons, financial support. Size of country has nothing to do with it-look at Cuba's contributions to African national liberation.Albania did provide arms and funds to pro-Albanian CPs. Funny you mention Cuba, because in Angola they did a nice job defending US multinational corporations from UNITA attacks.

"When the Portuguese left in 1975, Gulf Oil Company had refused to abandon its offshore platforms in the Cabinda region. A contract with the MPLA government was arranged... President José Eduardo dos Santos assigned squads of Cuban soldiers to guarantee the safety of Gulf and the other Western oil giants based in Luanda, including Chevron's new office tower [on the Avenida Lenin]. And thus, Angola became the only place in the world where Cuban troops, supposedly sworn to the destruction of capitalism, were protecting U.S. multinational oil companies against attacks from U.S.-backed guerrillas."
(Tom Zoellner. The Heartless Stone: a Journey Through the World of Diamonds, Deceit and Desire. New York: St. Martin's Press. 2006. p. 180.)


Btw, I don't appreciate your slander that I'm a 'Brezhnevite'-Iv'e never praised the Brezhnev and hold to the Trotskyist analysis that it was a degenerated workers state until 1991. Please be honest in your argumentation.Anyone who defends the social-imperialism of the USSR is a Brezhnevite. The USSR was state-capitalist, it was a reactionary entity.


Yes, so pro-US that he expelled the US military from EcuadorSo pro-US that the Colombian Government praised the Ecuadorian military for helping them kill a senior FARC-EP commander just a few days ago with US backing.

[Roach]

This is a bit too much. The rebellion of the police and the military-- a police and military that have been, are, and will be again, used to suppress the organization and resistance of the workers, the urban and rural poor?

You are probably rigth.The PCR has strangely move to right during the last months(for me at least) I don't that doubt an revisionist take over might be going on.I posted an article on the indigenous question on the politics section.

[Ismail]

This is a bit too much. The rebellion of the police and the military-- a police and military that have been, are, and will be again, used to suppress the organization and resistance of the workers, the urban and rural poor-- must be supported by the workers, the urban and rural poor without the police and military renouncing, of course, their role as institutions suppressing the workers, the urban and rural poor.The PCMLE and MPD aren't supporting the police force as an institution, they're simply using the police protests and Correa's reaction as a way to further mobilize the people of Ecuador to oppose Correa's neo-liberal policies.

[RadioRaheem84]

No he isn't.He (LULA)is an Neo-Liberal Populist trying to hide in an Social Democrat mask , just like Correa.


Empahsis mine.

Well, third way soc dem is the same as being a neo-liberal person. I meant that he was like a New Labour positionist.

[Die Neue Zeit]

Correra and Kirchner are liberal developmentalists of the old variant that was seen during the Cold War (ala Arbenz of Guatemala) before most of them were disposed of for right wing juntas. Correra's economic influence comes Ha Joon Chang, the Cambridge Economist who was taught by a Marxist but developed structural left-Keynesian strategies for developmental growth.

You mean the guy who recently wrote 23 Things They Don't Tell You About Capitalism?

[RadioRaheem84]

Yes. I wouldn't describe Ha Joon Chang as a socialist or a Marxist. More of a left wing Keynesian ala Joan Robinson.

I have two of his books Kicking Away the Ladder and Bad Samaritans. Both are great reads for anyone wanting to dismantle right wing economist myths but not much more than that. There is a lot of praise for State Owned Enterprises in the latter book, enterprises that are not worker owned but still operate under market mechanisms.

He is a heterodox developmental economist.

[dez]

But Correa is gloriously defying the US, I'm sure. The PCMLE and FARC-EP have held meetings before, and the few Hoxhaist guerrillas in Colombia (those that didn't demilitarize in the early 90's) work with the FARC-EP, which is something I doubt an actual rightist/ultra-leftist group would do.


Raul Reyes was in ecuador, and the closest thing to an actual challenge of the Uribe regime was Correa's (and alba's) reaction to Reyes' assassination.

[S.Artesian]

You are probably rigth.The PCR has strangely move to right during the last months(for me at least) I don't that doubt an revisionist take over might be going on.I posted an article on the indigenous question on the politics section.


Actually, it reminds me a bit of the bizarre, and deadly, right-wing and pro Moscow PIR alliance that overthrew Villaroel in Bolivia in 1946.

[Ismail]

Even the Trotskyist WSWS, which seems sympathetic to Correa, notes that Correa "has turned to austerity measures aimed in particular at the public sector, which has provoked union and student protests. Among these measures are proposals to pay pensions for retired public sector workers in part with government bonds and a reorganization of the work force that is expected to produce mass layoffs."

I talked to a non-communist Ecuadorian once about the MPD back in March. This is what he said (which shows the influence of the MPD): "MPD is a political party that is very close to the syndicates of teachers, normaly they stand for fair things, like salaries and health care for teachers... The goverment... wants to evaluate the teachers and if any teacher is not qualified, they could get fired (first capacitation, later a second exam and if failed also, then fired). Well the MPD party is supporting the teachers syndicates without hesitation."

Apparently the MPD has a long history of being very uncompromising and refusing to work with others on the "left."

[ckaihatsu]

My take on this now is that Correa has managed to piss off sections of the police and military *as well as* the indigenous, labor, and general population. It seems like he's being crushed as his leadership implodes as a result of *not* setting a clear course -- standing still is *not* an option here....


---


http://wsws.org/articles/2010/oct2010/ecua-o02.shtml


Ecuador shaken by police, military uprising


By Bill Van Auken
2 October 2010

[Ocean Seal]

This is by no means a worker's revolt. The workers are siding with President Correa. This is a military coup, period!
Ok thank you for clearing that up.