Fidel Castro

[scott thesocialist]

do you people agree with the way Castro treats his people, the way that so many try and escape to the US, the way he shoots dead people against him??????Why do so many people live in poverty, is Cuba a true socialist state??????
or does he treat his country with the respect it deserves, would Che treated the people the same????

[truthaddict11]

in my opinion a wanker

[Sabocat]

There's been a lot of threads like this.

Fidel has brought great health care, free education from grade 1 to doctoral, (almost 100% literacy)increased life expectancy, decreased infant mortality, nobody starving to death, 1 doctor for every 175 people or so.

As far as people just randomly being shot, I don't think it happens. I think very few people are executed in Cuba. I would bet you far more people are executed in the U$.

As far as people leaving Cuba, Fidel allows 20,000 per year to immigrate to the U$ alone. I'm not sure that that many go, but that is what is allowed.

People living in poverty, I guess everything is relative. Define poverty? If you mean that they don't have 100,000 dollars to buy a Porsche, or 500 dollars to spend in a Gap store to buy Levi's and such, then I guess you're right. I think that most in Cuba would consider themselves rich. They have their families, music, and culture that they're very proud of.

I guess I would define Fidel as a struggling good guy, living under the "Sword of Damacles"
Is it a perfect Socialist or Communist Society?...No, but I think he has the best interest of the Cuban people in mind.

As Fidel once said in court....."History will absolve me."

[Kez]

Cuba as a deformeed workers state is more progressive than any other capitalist nation. simple as that.

Our job is to make it truly a communist island and spread it

[Invader Zim]

In my personnal opinion he could do better, far better. From what I have been told (as I have not been there), which may not be accurate, havana in particular is a stinking whole of capitalism filled with US and european tourists, it also has a hooker on every corner.

However you must compare it to the alternative, the Batista regime, of which was far, far worse. I also look at all the improvments Cuba has made, its health service, its education etc, and it makes me think that Castro could have done far worse as well as better.

As for people trying to escape Cuba people try and escape western countrys all the time, in Britain just look at all those who are forced in to the black market slavery/prostution. They try to escape the country all the time, but that never gets in the news. Iys a case of the pot calling the kettle balck if you ask me.

[bluerev002]

Things are better now than they were before the revolution though.

Unless I'm wrong, there cant really be poverty for one group w/o there being poverty for EVERYONE in Cuba.

unless I'm wroing again, that would mean that Fidel himself would be in poverty...cuz hes supposed to get the same pay as everyone else....does he get the same pay as everyone else?

[YKTMX]

Originally posted by [email protected] 31 2003, 07:41 PM
Things are better now than they were before the revolution though.

Unless I'm wrong, there cant really be poverty for one group w/o there being poverty for EVERYONE in Cuba.

unless I'm wroing again, that would mean that Fidel himself would be in poverty...cuz hes supposed to get the same pay as everyone else....does he get the same pay as everyone else?
lol, no.

[bluerev002]

:huh:

no what? I made three comments...no to what? /) @[email protected] (

[Felicia]

He's a good guy. But I think that things would have been a lot different if Che stuck around.....

[Juggernaught]

I strongly believe fidel has no option with usa constantly planning to turn over the socialistic cuba back to their tyranny.

About the random executions: lol!
According to amnesty international no death penalty at all was comitted last year. Also, only one person died in prison (because of disease that he had before he came there)

[Collective]

Cuba is a socialist state in a capitalist world and yet its revolution has survived. It is not all down to him, it is down to the Cuban people, but Fidel deserves a lot of credit.

Ultra-leftists and their assorted followers will spout rubbish about Cuba 'not really being socialist' or 'Fidel being a dictator'. That is nonsense. Lenin said something along the lines that if you sit around waiting for a perfect revolution you'd wait for ever. Cuba is not perfect but it is socialism, take it or leave it.

Cuba has a socialist economy that is publicly owned and involves a lot of worker management. It has a fantastic democratic system that enables everybody to have a say. From the National Assembly down to single block CDR's, every Cuban is able to put their views forward.

Right now Cuba is in an economic crisis following the collapse of socialism in the USSR and the tightening of the cruel US blockade. The Cuban people have decided to use tourism as a means out of that. They are suffering the negative effects of tourism but that is necessary and an ideological battle is being waged against them every day. Prostitution is no longer that much of a problem and there is certainly not a woman on every corner. I've been to Cuba twice and have yet to see one. Drug dealing was a problem but the Cubans are dealing with that and now you don't see much of it. A weakening of revolutionary counscioussnes has been caused by this crisis but it is being tackled through the 'battle of ideas'.

This is socialism ladies and gentlemen. This is the dream of Lenin, Marx, Che. In the real world things aren't perfect, its a struggle. Revolutionaries in socialist states need solidarity not socialists lining up with imperialism to attack them. Fidel isn't the revolution, it is the immense majority of Cuban people. I think they need support for what they're doing and the world needs to learn from them.

[Guardia Bolivariano]

Cuban poor? Go to Brazil or any part of latinamerica and see how many poor people get medical attention a great education and at least one meal a day?

And we must not forget the embargo plays a huge part in Cuba's economic problems.

As for the executions moral principles aside what could stop the hijackers from taking hostages and much needed aircraft and ships to Miami If no actions are taken?
Lets not forget they were armed..

They don't kill the balceros for trying to leave Cuba.
It's A diferent story when hijackers take a plane to Miami and crash It into the sea due to lack of fuel and everyone on board dies. Those actions were made to defend Cuba from similar situations.

[elijahcraig]

Fidel is a great man. Few rival him in today's world.

You cannot be a Marxist-Leninist and not support Cuba. Simple as that. And if you don't think a social revolution is going to leave behind a bourgeois tendency, you haven't read Marx, Engels, Lenin, Stalin, Trotsky, Mao, or Che.

[Organic Revolution]

he is a good man.. how would u hold up after like 35 years of an embargo, countless terrorist activities supported by the us and being the only anti imperialist country in the reigion?

[Danton]

"Fidel, good guy or wanker?"
"In my opinion a wanker"?????

Now that's an intelligent way to start a debate. Fidel came from a middle class family, he had no need to start his insurrection other than a sense of justice and rightious indignation at the state of his beloved country. Under Batista Cuba was nothing more than a playground and "Whorehouse of the Carribbiean". Where whores truly stood on every street corner and gangsters, dillettantes, American officials and scum of every breed indulged in live sex shows, gambling, drugs and causal violence.


Like Collective, I have visited Cuba twice and didn't see the proliferation of whores that is a common misconception, what you do see on every street corner is the revolutionary police, an overwhelming majority of whom are Communist party members, petty crime levels in Havana in particular are practically non-existant. Also one cannot help but be overwhelmed by the sense of well being of the people despite their apparent squalar, I defy anyone to walk the length of the "Malecon" without breakng into a gleeful grin at the sheer beauty of the crumbling city as it's residents go about their daily grind with an air of unfathomable dignity despite economic oppression - Cuba has been at war with the supposed world power for nigh on 45 years.

Naturally I will be accused of rose tinted romantisim by Fidel's detractors but I have seen the extreme poverty and hardship suffered by the people also. I stayed a week with a family on San Lazaro where four of us slept in one bed whilst the head of the house lay on his bare floor despite my protests, I remember the look on the ninety year old grandmother's face when she tasted Baily's for the first time and the families joy at puffing away on my English cigarettes.

Cuba is a precious gem, which must be defended at all costs, Che recognized the threat of the media and political agitators way back in Guatemala, Che's ideals were and still are upheld in this precociously balanced isle adrift in the vast swamp of imperialism, afloat in a sea of capitalism, clinging by it's very fingernails to the raft of ideals that Fidel and his brother first outlined in their daring attack on the Moncada barracks all those years ago. It has been warped by time and fatigued by the beasts incessant clawing but it remains, as does the struggle.... Viva la Revolucion....



"Creemos en Fidel y en la Revolucion"

[chamo]

Fidel, good guy in my opinion. Let's not forget that Che was a follower of his, and who established the July 26th Movement in Cuba and therefore the success of the revolution.

However, Fidel was not a good a communist as Che, and Che used his influence greatly on Fidel after the revolution victory to declare it socialist. (Fidel had been careful not to mention the word should it anger the Americans or much of the Cuban population.)

Why do people think that Cuba is economically worse-off under him? The island has a better education and health system than any other Latin American nation and the health service may be one of the best in the world. Don't listen to the Western-capitalist propaganda about the state of the economy, it would be foolish to believe the rumour-driven, over-exaggerated claims about how the economy is near collapse. By all means the economy should have vanished with the collapse of the Soviet bloc, and no trading partners to deal with as well as the US imposing the trade embargo since the sixties.

Fidel has alot of support from his people; I disagree with him not letting people leave the island, but they soon realise that the rumours of the USA as "land of the free" and a country where you can make your fortune are much like those rumours Europeans hoped on at the start of the last centuary.

The anger at the executions of the plane-hijacking by terrorists from the US shows what a hypocritical nation it truly is. It is the USA who torture afghan prisoners in the Guantanamo Bay naval base, and who have been responsible for mass executions of prisoners and innocent civilians in Afghanistan by the Northern Alliance. The USA would have dealt with the terrorists in much the same way had they not been funded by the CIA.

I would never want to see Fidel step down, the country would be immediatley imposed to American imperialism in the same way it was before the revolution got rid of the oppressive pimps. Castro should be held in high regard for standing up to imperialist tactics and defending the nature of his country against invaders. Nationalistic Scum? Only because he loves his country and people that he will organise and win an armed revolution to free it and get rid of the fascists.

:castro:

[Comrade Raz]

In my opinion, Fidel has done as well as it could ever have been possible in Cuba. Recently there has been an influx of tourists and with them a ruling class. The collapse of the Soviet Union was a huge burden on Cuba as it meant that Fidel had to legalize the dollar as a form of payment which, or so i hear has created a higher class with dollars and a lower class with Pesos. Fidel had to legalize the dollar in order to keep Cuba afloat and under trade embargos and the consistent threat of American funded terrorist attacks. No one can deny that Cuba and Fidel is the best model of Socialism the world has seen to date.

[Marxist in Nebraska]

I have to agree with the vast majority of my comrades in here. Castro's faults are more than made up for by the advanced systems for health care and education in Cuba. If you think there is corruption and totalitarianism in Cuba today, just look at Batista's state in the 1950s.

Cuba's great soil and climate are about the only natural resources they have, and yet they are able to care for their own without any help from the United States government or the now-defunct Soviet Bloc. And Casto has been a pain in the imperialist asses of ten US presidents. That is worthy of praise in itself!

[redstar2000]

Good guy or wanker?

Actually, the real answer will be when he retires/dies. That's when we'll find out how much Cuba has changed over the last 40 years.

If U.S. hegemony is restored with little or no Cuban resistance, then the verdict of history will be: wanker. If Cuba moves even further to the left and the plots of the imperialists and worms are smashed, then the verdict will be: good guy...with shortcomings, but good guy.

Meanwhile, I think among us (who do not live in Cuba), there is only one legitimate position...defend Cuba against U.S. imperialism.

In particular, when we are told "atrocity stories" about Cuba by bourgeois apologists, I think they should be utterly rejected...a knee-jerk reaction, if you will.

I would personally rather take the risk of looking "foolish"--if some "atrocity story" turns out to be true--than say or do anything that could be taken as a "defense" of U.S. imperialism.

Those "left-wing" intellectuals who've recently attacked Cuba for "human rights violations" have done no service to Cuba or to their own credibility...all they've done is provide a "left" cover for a right-wing agenda. Their acts were shameful.

Good guy or wanker? We'll probably find out before the end of this decade.

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A site about communist ideas

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

hmm...I don't know about that, Redstar. He could well be a good guy, even if Cuba happens to go back to being America's gambling and prostitution island. I expect Cuba will do exactly that. Does this mean he is a wanker? I don't really think so. It's hard to make much proggress under America's imperialist fist. Do you expect the people of Cuba to defend their revolutionary nation after suffering 50 of American oppression.

[Marxist in Nebraska]

I have to agree with Comrade Victorcommie. Castro cannot be dismissed as a "wanker" if Cuba falls back into capitalism with his death. I do not think it is fair to expect one man or his ideas to outlive a well-oiled machine like the US imperial machine.

[Organic Revolution]

i also agree with comrade victor because how can a small nation hold out against the US for that long. the people cannot destroy there tanks and what not when the us supported coup happens



:ph34r: (stealing ideas from red star ;) )

[TXsocialist]

Cuba is a shining star and, seems to me, the revolutionary stronghold of our time.

[redstar2000]

He could well be a good guy, even if Cuba happens to go back to being America's gambling and prostitution island. I expect Cuba will do exactly that.

I do not think it is fair to expect one man or his ideas to outlive a well-oiled machine like the US imperial machine.

...because how can a small nation hold out against the US for that long? The people cannot destroy their tanks and what not when the us supported coup happens.

Gee, I guess this isn't the "optimists' corner", is it? :(

I said, actually, that if U.S. hegemony is restored "with little or no Cuban resistance" then Fidel was a wanker.

Why? Because with 40 years to convince the Cubans that socialism is worth fighting for...if the Cubans don't fight, then he did a lousy job.

If the Cubans go down fighting or (even better) they continue resistance against whatever quisling U.S. imperialism puts into power...that's different.

See, it's no disgrace to be beaten by a stronger opponent...what is disgraceful is spineless surrender.

Do you consider Cuba socialist because of the "iron will" of one man? Do you think that "everything depends on Fidel"? (Hint: the bourgeois news media does.)

If true, that's such a weak conception of socialism that it hardly deserves the name. In fact, if that's all Fidel accomplished in 40 years, wanker is probably one of the milder words that will be used to describe him.

And why have you assumed that "all is lost" when Fidel passes from the scene? If the revolution has real roots in the Cuban people, are there not tens of thousands of "Fidels" and, yes, "Ches" ready to step forward?

And if not, why not?

Let's wait and see what happens before making these judgments.

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___________________________

U.S. GET OUT OF IRAQ NOW!
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"...a disgusting and frightening website"
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A site about communist ideas

[Felicia]

http://www.gamers-forums.com/smilies/contrib/xerx/happyfidel.gif

[chamo]

I'm not sure if that theory would work because there is a small bourgeois in Cuba and others who would greet the US occupation in much the same way the Eastern Bloc did in disillusion when the Berlin Wall collapsed. Now there are plenty, maybe a majority, of people in the former GDP who want their previous Soviet system, or at least a better run example of a communist society and economy back.

[Organic Revolution]

:cuba: :cuba: :cuba: :cuba: :cuba: :cuba: :cuba: :hammer: :hammer: :hammer: :che: :che: :che:

[bluerev002]

WE will find out if Fidel is a good guy of Wanker after he goes down. I have to agree with that.

If Cuba goes down without a fight from the people, then it probably showed that Fidel was just clingin on to everything he worked for and oppresed his people and forced his ideas into them.

I hope that that doesnt happen of course, but with the youths of Cuba now a days not knowing how much suffering their parents and gradparents had to go through before the revolution, they might not exactly want to fight. What, with seeing as how so many Cubans have gone to the US get rich and made a name for themselves, of course they all want to do that too.

I just hope that theyve been properly taught. Maybe their 12yr. old children know the principles of the Communist Manifesto better than US 12yr. olds. <_<

[Vinny Rafarino]

Originally posted by [email protected] 31 2003, 07:22 PM
Cuba as a deformeed workers state is more progressive than any other capitalist nation. simple as that.

Our job is to make it truly a communist island and spread it
I am super Trot and I will stun your evil ways with my defamations&#33;


You are a DEFORMED WORKERS STATE&#33;

You are a STATE CATITALIST&#33;


Ha Ha&#33; I am Super Trot, hear me whine&#33;

[Iepilei]

The best line I&#39;ve ever heard in regards to Cuba:

"...Cuba had become to Latin America something the US had always feared - a good example."

[elijahcraig]

Is that from Killing Hope by Bill Blum?

[bluerev002]

i like that quote :wub:

:castro: :cuba:

[SonofRage]

I&#39;d really like to see what Cuba could do if that U.S. embargo wasn&#39;t in place. It really us a shame.

[highway star]

i think he is a good boy.Because in this capitalist world they are still exsist.In there free education and health.everyone got a a job bad or good.Everyone got a house bad or good.They r alone in this world.And the revulution is stiill there.But Che would be there.I think everything would be different

[Political Suicide]

I&#39;m not going to bother reading any responses to the intial post, so exuse me if i repeat anything or if my feedback is no longer appreciated. To be frank, i&#39;ve just heard all the bullshit the anti-castro&#39;s have said and i&#39;ve heard just as much bullshit praise. so let me go my way.

"do you people agree with the way Castro treats his people"
I agree with some things and disagree with others. All in all, i neither agree nor disagree with his methods in general.

"the way that so many try and escape to the US"
Like the amount of people who escape mexico? Or haiti? Or jamaica, Colombia, argentina, etc. etc. Get real. Immigration to the U.S. is NOT limited to Cuba, in fact, comparitivly, i&#39;m sure cuba isn&#39;t even the highest ranking in immigration (speaking in percentiles).

"the way he shoots dead people against him??????"
The way we electricute people? Or give them the needle of death? Hmm.. bullet to the head or 10,000 Volts of electricity. I&#39;ll take a mouth full of bullets.

"Why do so many people live in poverty"
The embargo, a weak economy (partially due to the embargo), lack of technologies in many industrial sectors, the list goes on, but there seems to be a root in the embargo which could be bullshit altogether but we&#39;ll never know unless its lifted.

"is Cuba a true socialist state??????"
We can debate this all day, night, week, month, year, and decade, and maybe longer and still we&#39;ll all disagree. The fact is, that question itself means something different to each and every one of us. How do you define socialism? Your answer lies in that.

"or does he treat his country with the respect it deserves"
Once again, thats an opinion. And my opinion is that he does treat them with the respect they deserve. He can&#39;t give them what he doesnt have.

"would Che treated the people the same????"
Well, my friend, your going to have to ask him yourself, because i can&#39;t speak for him and neither can anyone else.

[commieboy]

My opinion:

Fidel Castro.....more than a man......less than a god

[scott thesocialist]

so political suicide i never said i was anti-castro i just wanted peoples opinion on him, do people here think he has treated the people of Cuba good, or not so good.All you did was compare my points to other countries i&#39;m not talking about other countries only Cuba, i now about shit that happends in other countries like Mexico and the death penalty in the good old USA, so unless you make a point on the subject don&#39;t reply&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33; &#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;

[Political Suicide]

scott thesocialist,

The answer you asked is purely opinionated so don&#39;t expect a straight foward answer from me, i gave you my opinion, maybe you just didnt read into it enough. I think it can go either way. hes got good points and bad. I didn&#39;t live in Cuba long enough to be able to say &#39;i lived under castro&#39;s rule&#39; and therefore don&#39;t have much right to say how the people are &#39;treated&#39;, i can only express my limited opinion and my family&#39;s opinion. I never said you were pro or anti castro. I was just giving my blunt reasoning for not reading the other posts. I was apologizing in advance for anyone i may have repeated. If my opinion is not valid to you, then don&#39;t read it. I&#39;ll post when i damn well feel like it.

[Political Suicide]

Oh, and about me not making &#39;any points&#39;, i&#39;ll provide some examples;

"do you people agree with the way Castro treats his people"
I agree with some things and disagree with others. All in all, i neither agree nor disagree with his methods in general.

That is, if i&#39;m not mistaken, my opinion.

"the way he shoots dead people against him??????"
The way we electricute people? Or give them the needle of death? Hmm.. bullet to the head or 10,000 Volts of electricity. I&#39;ll take a mouth full of bullets.

This time, i&#39;m expressing my opinion (preference here), between the electric chair (U.S. method of death penalty) and a nice bullet. (cuba&#39;s preferred method of death penalty)


"Why do so many people live in poverty"
The embargo, a weak economy (partially due to the embargo), lack of technologies in many industrial sectors, the list goes on, but there seems to be a root in the embargo which could be bullshit altogether but we&#39;ll never know unless its lifted.

Well, this time, i&#39;m expressing my opinion on what could be the cause to poverty in Cuba. Opinion, my friend.

"is Cuba a true socialist state??????"
We can debate this all day, night, week, month, year, and decade, and maybe longer and still we&#39;ll all disagree. The fact is, that question itself means something different to each and every one of us. How do you define socialism? Your answer lies in that.

Thats my opinion on that question in general.

"or does he treat his country with the respect it deserves"
Once again, thats an opinion. And my opinion is that he does treat them with the respect they deserve. He can&#39;t give them what he doesnt have.

[FistFullOfSteel]

Fidel Castro is a good guy&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33; :castro: :cuba: