Communism won't happen tomorrow

[Weezer]

An important note-Communism won't happen tomorrow.

By the time Communism is reached(ie classless, stateless), I'm guessing it will be a few centuries from now.

To think of applying to Communism to present day life I think is illogical, when communism is a far off goal.

Just a thought I had a few months ago.

[¿Que?]

but then again, socialism...you never know...

[Weezer]

but then again, socialism...you never know...

The transitional stage works differently than communism.

As much as I would like to think the revolution will happen tomorrow, I doubt it. :(

[Klaatu]

but then again, socialism...you never know...

I would say that it is our job to spread the good news that socialism is the superior system to capitalism.

We are the enlightened ones. We know the truth. :thumbup1:

[Psy]

An important note-Communism won't happen tomorrow.

By the time Communism is reached(ie classless, stateless), I'm guessing it will be a few centuries from now.

To think of applying to Communism to present day life I think is illogical, when communism is a far off goal.

Just a thought I had a few months ago.

I would say centuries, I think with the proletariat of the world working towards a unified a goal under a global workers state would allow for the rapid achievement of communism and with enough political will could be archived in a few decades after the defeat of all capitalist armies on Earth. I mean there is nothing the global portraitist can't do when they put their collective might to it, even the task of housing everyone on Earth would be a trivial task with the collective labor of the proletariat of the world focused on solving the problem.

[Ovi]

To think of applying to Communism to present day life I think is illogical, when communism is a far off goal.

That's true, but any egalitarian society that strives towards communism should itself be built as close as possible to communism to make such a transition possible. Or, as James Guillaume (http://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/guillaume/works/ideas.htm) argues

The problem of property having been resolved, and there being no capitalists placing a tax on the labor of the masses, the question of types of distribution and remuneration become secondary. We should to the greatest possible extent institute and be guided by the principle From each according to his ability, to each according to his need. When, thanks to the progress of scientific industry and agriculture, production comes to outstrip consumption, and this will be attained some years after the Revolution, it will no longer be necessary to stingily dole out each worker’s share of goods. Everyone will draw what he needs from the abundant social reserve of commodities, without fear of depletion; and the moral sentiment which will be more highly developed among free and equal workers will prevent, or greatly reduce, abuse and waste. In the meantime, each community will decide for itself during the transition period the method they deem best for the distribution of the products of associated labor.

[EvilRedGuy]

This is obvious, but you never really know whats gonna happen in the future, so...

[Thirsty Crow]

The transitional stage works differently than communism.

As much as I would like to think the revolution will happen tomorrow, I doubt it. :(

Ovi is right. There is no reason whatsoever for a completely independent historical stage of transition. In other words, the transitional stage should exhibit all the pertinent characteristics of communism.

[ZeroNowhere]

Gaze into the crystal,
See what it tells,
It can bring you all fortune,
Do you so well...

Visions and dreams you can see
In the Crystal Ball.

[AK]

Well, if revolution will not materialise within our life-spans, why not become an anarchist and live a life of fucking shit up?

[Thirsty Crow]

Well, if revolution will not materialise within our life-spans, why not become an anarchist and live a life of fucking shit up?

An that's what anarchism amounts to, fucking shit up?

[Medvyet]

An important note-Communism won't happen tomorrow.

By the time Communism is reached(ie classless, stateless), I'm guessing it will be a few centuries from now.

To think of applying to Communism to present day life I think is illogical, when communism is a far off goal.

Just a thought I had a few months ago.

I know what you mean. Sometimes it makes me sad that we probably won't live to see it.
But we've gotta keep pushing for future generations. Besides, a Red miracle could happen, you never know! ;)
We just keep working and wishing, working and wishing.

[AK]

An that's what anarchism amounts to, fucking shit up?
Actually, it sort of does. We are fucking up the capitalist system and pretty much making life miserable for the bourgeoisie - although that is an incredibly simplified view :p

[Black Sheep]

This just in!
Communism will happen the day after tommorow.
http://southparkstudios-intl.mtvnimages.com/shared/sps/images/shows/southpark/vertical_video/import/season_09/sp_0908_04_v6.jpg?width=480

Relax comrades and don't get demoralized.
After all we have RAAN on our side.:D

[Obs]

But... but I already packed!

[DaComm]

An important note-Communism won't happen tomorrow.

By the time Communism is reached(ie classless, stateless), I'm guessing it will be a few centuries from now.

To think of applying to Communism to present day life I think is illogical, when communism is a far off goal.

Just a thought I had a few months ago.

So much optimism...

I have doubts of Communism's arrival within our lifetime, or many lifetimes to come; illogical, well that's being a bit unfair. By the way, who's proclaiming it will happen tomorrow?

[Red Monroy]

I suggest everyone to read these two articles:
Socialism is a form of class struggle (http://www.cpgb.org.uk/article.php?article_id=1003992)
The phases of communism (http://www.cpgb.org.uk/article.php?article_id=1004099)

Both are about what it takes to get to communism and what the nature of the transitionary phase, socialism, is. These articles are part of an ongoing debate, hence the somewhat polemical nature of them.

Though it will take time before the petty-bourgeoisie and middle classes (the ones that hold skill and knowledge monopolies) are absorbed into the working class - and thus create a society in which everyone is socially rounded and can "one day write their novel, the next teach a foreign language, after that do their stint as an elected decision-maker, the following day work in the local hospital, etc. But, this individual never becomes a writer, a teacher, an administrator, a surgeon, etc." (to quote Jack Conrad (http://www.cpgb.org.uk/article.php?article_id=1004091)) - I do not think this will take centuries. Those who think it'll take centuries or "many lifetimes" in my opinion lack a vision of what communism actually entails, let alone how to get there, so they "postpone" the matter to future generations. I think this is a dead end position and believe we need to be far more explicit in what society we exactly want to achieve.

Concretely, I'm thinking of a period of a few decades (20, 30 years?) from the moment the working class seizes power in one country and succeeds in bringing down the major capitalist powers (US, Europe, Japan, perhaps China, the rest will follow suit) until the moment classes cease to exist.

[Imposter Marxist]

An that's what anarchism amounts to, fucking shit up?

Yes.

[RawVeganCommunist]

An important note-Communism won't happen tomorrow.

By the time Communism is reached(ie classless, stateless), I'm guessing it will be a few centuries from now.

To think of applying to Communism to present day life I think is illogical, when communism is a far off goal.

Just a thought I had a few months ago.

Of course it won't happen tommorrow if you believe that it won't. I think that this is the problem with most communists, they sit around at talk about the problems of capitalism, but they don't do anything about it. It almost seems as if most communists like to live under a capitalist just so they can always have something to hate.

[Weezer]

Well, if revolution will not materialise within our life-spans, why not become an anarchist and live a life of fucking shit up?

We should be working toward a revolution so future generations can experience one.

[Veg_Athei_Socialist]

Well, if revolution will not materialise within our life-spans, why not become an anarchist and live a life of fucking shit up?
This sounds like the way to go:thumbup1:.

[Ocean Seal]

An important note-Communism won't happen tomorrow.

By the time Communism is reached(ie classless, stateless), I'm guessing it will be a few centuries from now.

To think of applying to Communism to present day life I think is illogical, when communism is a far off goal.

Just a thought I had a few months ago.

I agree which is why the silly argument that communism will never work is simply illogical as we are not proposing to start with communism.

[AK]

We should be working toward a revolution so future generations can experience one.
You thought I was being serious?

[Kuppo Shakur]

The number one thing that I hate about RevLeft:
When people talk about when "The Revolution" will "Happen."

[¿Que?]

The number one thing that I hate about RevLeft:
When people talk about when "The Revolution" will "Happen."
When the revolution happens, this problem will be resolved, comrade!

EDIT: I hope I don't get an infraction for making a joke in learning. Comrade Kuppo, are you trying to get me in trouble!!

[Magón]

Who said Communism would happen overnight? And/Or who even thought Communism could happen overnight?

[this is an invasion]

This just in!
Communism will happen the day after tommorow.
http://southparkstudios-intl.mtvnimages.com/shared/sps/images/shows/southpark/vertical_video/import/season_09/sp_0908_04_v6.jpg?width=480

Relax comrades and don't get demoralized.
After all we have RAAN on our side.:D
Probably the truest thing on revleft.

[The Garbage Disposal Unit]

Anything other than the immediate realization of communist potentialities is just business as usual flying a false flag. Communism either happens in our immediate practice - is our form of life - or it doesn't happen.

As the saying goes, "We are the ones we have been waiting for."

[ContrarianLemming]

An important note-Communism won't happen tomorrow.

By the time Communism is reached(ie classless, stateless), I'm guessing it will be a few centuries from now.

To think of applying to Communism to present day life I think is illogical, when communism is a far off goal.

Just a thought I had a few months ago.

you're right: you are guessing.

[Lenina Rosenweg]

Anything other than the immediate realization of communist potentialities is just business as usual flying a false flag. Communism either happens in our immediate practice - is our form of life - or it doesn't happen.

As the saying goes, "We are the ones we have been waiting for."

So its all or nothing? No transitional program? With the very low level of class consciousness how do you propose to get from here to the glorious future?

[The Douche]

I don't think the earth will survive another couple hundred years of capitalism.

[Sentinel]

An important note-Communism won't happen tomorrow.

By the time Communism is reached(ie classless, stateless), I'm guessing it will be a few centuries from now.

To think of applying to Communism to present day life I think is illogical, when communism is a far off goal.

Thanks for this crucial info. Knowing this, I will now accept my fate as a wage slave.

***

Seriously speaking, we can never know in advance how opinions will swing, when they will do it and how fast. It goes in waves, and I wouldn't be surprised if we saw a left turn in opinions soon -- a new generation is taking over after those who got disillusioned after the fall of the socialist bloc twenty years ago.

We've witnessed a rather long period of reaction now, it's about time we enter a more revolutionary one like the one in the 60's again soon. But in the meanwhile someone has to lay the ground for that to happen, and that is our role right now.

[Kuppo Shakur]

Oh, and even worse:
"When the revolution comes."
AAAARRRRGGGGHHHH.

[EvilRedGuy]

I think the revolution will happen in 2049 and by 2100 we will get a post-scarcity technocrat communist global/universal/multiversal society/community. Technocracy. :thumbup1:

[Kuppo Shakur]

i think the revolution will happen in 2049 and by 2100 we will get a post-scarcity technocrat communist global/universal/multiversal society/community. Technocracy. :thumbup1:
aaarrrggghhh.

[Klaatu]

Well, if revolution will not materialise within our life-spans, why not become an anarchist and live a life of fucking shit up?

Actually, that is precisely how most revolutions start ;)

[AK]

Actually, that is precisely how most revolutions start ;)
"I'm bored, let's fuck shit up"
"Well shit, we just overthrew the capitalist system"

eh?

[Apoi_Viitor]

Well, if we abolish the state overnight, then we should have communism by tomorrow.

[Magón]

Well, if we abolish the state overnight, then we should have communism by tomorrow.

So Tea and Biscuits at 4 then? :lol:

[Jimmie Higgins]

An that's what anarchism amounts to, fucking shit up?Unfortunately many people only see it this way just as they only see socialism as reformist capitalism. And many in our movement end up seeing things this way too and reject working class revolution for democratic socialism or Utopian lifestylism.


An important note-Communism won't happen tomorrow.

Will there be a revolution tomorrow? Probably not since consciousness is low, but organizing now and being a revolutionary in non-revolutionary times is just as important as being a revolutionary in revolutionary times because consciousness changes quickly and exponentially. There may or may not be a revolution in our lives - they may be one and it could be defeated from within or without anyway - just just can't know these things beforehand. But I think we can be pretty confident that there will be struggles and upsurges and revolutionary movements in our lives. In my lifetime there was the fall of Stalinism, the end of apartheid, huge anti-war marches coming a year or so after a huge wave of pro-war nationalism, the Zapatistas, all kinds of movements in Latin America, the anti-globalization movement, immigrant marches that re-invigorated May Day in the US - that's a lot of big events and I'm still young yet.

It's hard because most of us (I was born towards the end of the 1970s) have known only decline and demoralization for most of the working class movements. With austerity being pushed by the ruling class and social democracy and US liberalism fully selling union-busting class-warfare and xenophobic racism, it's probably going to get darker before the dawn, but we are also at an incredibly volatile moment in history because of the economic instability and so really anything from general strikes to a revolution somewhere or reaction taking hold is possible.

Because of that it's more important now to be organizing and trying to be laying the groundwork for upsurges now. The budget cut crisis is a good example of this - I don't think people would have expected the large mass meetings, occupations, protests, 3 years ago. While radicals sometimes played a bad role in these movements, anarchists and socialists were also central to organizing a lot of the anger of students into student actions rather than the standard liberal de-mobilizing efforts that the chancellors and presidents and advocated. This is possible because radicals have a good presence on many campuses and so when students became frustrated with the "proper channels" and the college administrators, radicals could present a reason why the administration and liberals wanted to stall and negotiate or send the protests to the state Governor. In the 1930s in the US, the Left was able to play this role in the labor movement - when workers became angry because the liberal in charge of their trade union (like the ILA for example) tried to sell them shitty deals with the bosses, the CP and smaller groups (i.e. Trotskysits in "Teamster Rebellion") could help propose an alternative to the strategies offered by the liberals. Compare that situation to what we have in labor in the US right now - when the rank and file are angry at the bullshit cuts that the union is telling them are inevitable, they just become demoralized and often anti-union workers. Radicals in the unions arguing for more militancy and rank and file control and democracy (as well as the example by syndicalist unions of these same methods in practice) can make the difference between workers throwing up their arms and giving up or becoming more militant.

[Weezer]

Will there be a revolution tomorrow? Probably not since consciousness is low, but organizing now and being a revolutionary in non-revolutionary times is just as important as being a revolutionary in revolutionary times because consciousness changes quickly and exponentially.

This is what I'm trying to say.

We should be building the movement, but it's important to see that it won't happen for a while. That's why we can't look at communism and apply to the modern world, because it won't happen for some time.