Housing-Houseless PDX

[Ele'ill]

http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2010/09/402610.shtml

[RGacky3]

This sort of thing happens all the time.

Free Marketeers would argue this homeless guy is an aggressor violating property rights, can you believe that? THIS is Capitalism.

[Bud Struggle]

I'd say if it is abandoned for a year--first in takes it. That's urban. I think rural land is something different. Also--now that we're on the subject--5 years suburban. People that "leave" property there--should have the opportunity to get their act together--but after that ;).

Fair?

[Ele'ill]

Spend 23 hours a day not existing and one hour in lock-up.

[Lt. Ferret]

notice how even in the most progressive liberal city in the United States they still cant get their act together and take care of their homeless?

[Revolution starts with U]

Bud, Good luck homesteading JP Morgan's property that hasn't been used in years is covered in mold and will need tore down. You'll still get arrested/sued for living there. ;)
That's my job is to inspect these dilapedated crap-holes. Most of them are Chase, and most are mold from the basement to the second floor.
But to sell them would be to take a loss, and that can never happen... There have actually been 2 real estate agents in my area killed, and another robbed in the last 2 weeks.
I recently sold the guns, so I have to take my chucks with me everywhere :laugh:
That is all, pity-party pointless rant over :thumbup1:

[Revolution starts with U]

notice how even in the most progressive liberal city in the United States they still cant get their act together and take care of their homeless?

I know, capitalism sucks, right? :thumbup1:

[Lt. Ferret]

well statism obviously isnt fixing the problem.

[Revolution starts with U]

I'll drink to that! :thumbup1:

[Lt. Ferret]

i have a habit of bringing in internet buddies who have fallen on hard times and their only alternative is the street. some people are just born to not do much with themselves.


but i would say yeah, if you have a room take in a homeless person. but just lock up your shit first. help them get on their feet. its stupid to make being homeless illegal.

[RGacky3]

I'd say if it is abandoned for a year--first in takes it. That's urban. I think rural land is something different. Also--now that we're on the subject--5 years suburban. People that "leave" property there--should have the opportunity to get their act together--but after that ;).

Fair?

I'd be all for something like that, but you do realize how retail markets or land markets would compleatly be messed up right? How the people that play in those makrets would hate ayour idea. Its not something I'm concerned about, but trying to push something like that through would be almost an impossibility.

But thats why we gotta work toward revolutionizing th system not just reforming it, but something like that would be a great start.


well statism obviously isnt fixing the problem.

What Statism? Capitalism is causing it.


some people are just born to not do much with themselves.


TYPICAL right wing responce, oh its not the system, its the people, they just are lazy and thus homeless (which kind of implies they deserve it), its funny that as the economy crashes a lot more people are just not born to do much with themselves.

[#FF0000]

btw statism is implementing rent control that sort of kind of makes some cities relatively livable i guess.

[Revolution starts with U]

Wall Street; "WE DON'T WANT TO PAY THE PEOPLE'S FAULTY LOANS!"

A short time later; "PAY OUT OUR FAULTY LOANS OR WE'LL DIE!"

Another short time later; "WHY MUST WE PAY FOR THE BANKS FAULTY LOANS?!"

[Ele'ill]

notice how even in the most progressive liberal city in the United States they still cant get their act together and take care of their homeless?

'Progressive' as in hipster tattoo hooka cocktail stripper lounges/bookstores.

The main problem can't be dealt with at a city level.


Ferret- that incident is one of many in a long line of police and city related attacks agaist the homeless and mentally ill.

[Bud Struggle]

Bud, Good luck homesteading JP Morgan's property that hasn't been used in years is covered in mold and will need tore down. You'll still get arrested/sued for living there. ;)
That's my job is to inspect these dilapedated crap-holes. Most of them are Chase, and most are mold from the basement to the second floor.
But to sell them would be to take a loss, and that can never happen... There have actually been 2 real estate agents in my area killed, and another robbed in the last 2 weeks.
I recently sold the guns, so I have to take my chucks with me everywhere :laugh:
That is all, pity-party pointless rant over :thumbup1:

The is exactly the problem. As long as the bank holds onto this property it is on their books for its full value--if they move it--they value falls and they have to show a loss and no one wants to do that.

The real solution is to change the accounting laws and the tax laws to make it worthwhile for the banks to let go of the property. The problem untimately lies with government.

[Lt. Ferret]

I'd be all for something like that, but you do realize how retail markets or land markets would compleatly be messed up right? How the people that play in those makrets would hate ayour idea. Its not something I'm concerned about, but trying to push something like that through would be almost an impossibility.

But thats why we gotta work toward revolutionizing th system not just reforming it, but something like that would be a great start.



What Statism? Capitalism is causing it.



TYPICAL right wing responce, oh its not the system, its the people, they just are lazy and thus homeless (which kind of implies they deserve it), its funny that as the economy crashes a lot more people are just not born to do much with themselves.


i take people into my home. do you? i give them food. do you? i give them shelter and internet and a decent tv (its a small flatscreen) and i help out, i have taken them (them being 3 different homeless people, mostly from the internet that id never met before.)

i had one of them attempt to really make themselves better. the other two, oh man, one of them i have brought into my house twice. he got fired from 2 jobs and almost fired from a third job where he was hired to do manual labor. all i have are anecdotes, but i have done quite a bit in my time. this guy had no social skills, he was basically a big stupid asshole who we think might have had some mental issues. he was from ohio if that counts, which sometimes i think it does.


so maybe i base a lot of my values on my own experiences, and not poli sci textbooks (which i have a bachelors in) and it has generally helped me figure out the world a whole lot more.

but maybe im selfish for only helping 1 person at a time and not 2. maybe im a jerk for not letting them have my bedroom and i can sleep on the living room floor. perhaps my guest room wasnt enough.


i mean i suppose i AM a raging imperialist, as iv been accused on the board, so maybe i was giving them all this free stuff in order to take over their land one day and farm their sweet sweet pineapples.

[Ele'ill]

i take people into my home. do you? i give them food. do you? i give them shelter and internet and a decent tv (its a small flatscreen) and i help out, i have taken them (them being 3 different homeless people, mostly from the internet that id never met before.)

What exactly do you mean 'from the internet'?




i had one of them attempt to really make themselves better. the other two, oh man, one of them i have brought into my house twice. he got fired from 2 jobs and almost fired from a third job where he was hired to do manual labor. all i have are anecdotes, but i have done quite a bit in my time. this guy had no social skills, he was basically a big stupid asshole who we think might have had some mental issues. he was from ohio if that counts, which sometimes i think it does.


I would advise against bringing strangers into one's home.




so maybe i base a lot of my values on my own experiences, and not poli sci textbooks (which i have a bachelors in) and it has generally helped me figure out the world a whole lot more.

Personal experiences are important- so is understanding the unseen by reading about it. There are systems at work that you don't know exist- that contribute greatly to various social issues.

Reading exposes you to outside articulation.



but maybe im selfish for only helping 1 person at a time and not 2. maybe im a jerk for not letting them have my bedroom and i can sleep on the living room floor. perhaps my guest room wasnt enough.

An individual is limited. To be critical- you could have done more by volunteering at the local shelters or service centers.



i mean i suppose i AM a raging imperialist, as iv been accused on the board, so maybe i was giving them all this free stuff in order to take over their land one day and farm their sweet sweet pineapples.

Or in that case you were likely engaging in 'progressive activities' without having a goal in mind- and without identifying what the underlaying causes of those people's life problems were.

[Lt. Ferret]

or maybe their problems started with themselves and not necessarily external factors? maybe external factors exacerbated the issue but i have seen poor people, i was raised around poor people, at worst, they get used to a social structure or daily routine that is inefficient and they just don't get ahead.


and i said i nanother thread (though i dont expect anyone to archive mentally all of my posts) that i used to work at some christian place that helped under-priviliged families and iv spent many a thanksgiving and christmas with people i'd never met before.

[Ele'ill]

or maybe their problems started with themselves

Does a functioning family let it's members go to waste- or is that a trait of dysfunction?

Our communities are the same way- there are better ways to help the mentally ill- there are better ways to help the poor- there are better ways to help the houseless.





and not necessarily external factors? maybe external factors exacerbated the issue but i have seen poor people, i was raised around poor people, at worst, they get used to a social structure or daily routine that is inefficient and they just don't get ahead.

Do you blame those raised in poverty for not knowing how/not getting out of poverty? That's a problem with community and our government. Do not blame the victim.



and i said i nanother thread (though i dont expect anyone to archive mentally all of my posts) that i used to work at some christian place that helped under-priviliged families and iv spent many a thanksgiving and christmas with people i'd never met before.

I don't understand why you are flip flopping from 'I don't understand' to 'I understand'.

What is your actual stance on these issues?

[Lt. Ferret]

i grew up in poverty and i got out of it. its not hard. do what your teachers told you the whole time. dont do too many drugs, dont pop out kids before you are financially ready, go to school, work while youre at school, maybe youll get lucky.


and i do understand why some people are poor. its not always externnal factors. its the utmost in patronizing and classism to claim that the poor cant take care of themselves. they dont necessarily need bougie overlords like you forcing other people to take care of them.

[Revolution starts with U]

But we are saying that they can take care of themselves, and are not being allowed to.
And btw, I'm sure Augustus did some really great things in his life too.

[Lt. Ferret]

very few if any restrictions are on anyone trying to take care of themselves. especially in america.

[#FF0000]

i grew up in poverty and i got out of it. its not hard.

I don't understand how people can say things like this and not see a problem.

[Lt. Ferret]

i cant see how you can look at that statement and see a problem.

[#FF0000]

i write with really neat and clear handwriting. its not hard.

i ran a business before. its not hard

i took calculus before. its not hard

i ran a marathon before. its not hard.

i wrestled a bear once. its not hard.

[Phased Out]

i grew up in poverty and i got out of it. its not hard. do what your teachers told you the whole time. dont do too many drugs, dont pop out kids before you are financially ready, go to school, work while youre at school, maybe youll get lucky.


and i do understand why some people are poor. its not always externnal factors. its the utmost in patronizing and classism to claim that the poor cant take care of themselves. they dont necessarily need bougie overlords like you forcing other people to take care of them.

Did you escape the values of the poverty? Or are you just talking about living standards? Depends on the integrity of the teacher. Middle class and rich people do drugs as well. Agree with not having kids at a young age; quite possibly the number one contributor to poverty.

Although, they were probably born with a low IQ in the first place, so being born with a low IQ and limited mental abilities is in itself, a contributor to poverty. What if you major in a useless subject at a state school w/o any professional networks? Heck, the same can be said if you obtain a "marketable degree".

Don't work while you're in school, unless it's valuable work experience. Working at a fast food restaurant while sacrificing scarce time when one could be learning networking and social skills on campus isn't very good advice.

You need to stop spouting overused cliches.

[#FF0000]

Don't work while you're in school, unless it's valuable work experience. Working at a fast food restaurant while sacrificing scarce time when one could be learning networking and social skills on campus isn't very good advice.

This is 100% not an option for me, and a lot of students, by any stretch.


What if you major in a useless subject at a state school w/o any professional networks? Heck, the same can be said if you obtain a "marketable degree".

I really don't believe there's such a thing as a "useless degree". I mean you might not be able to find a career in "English" but it's something and you can at least be an office monkey.


Although, they were probably born with a low IQ in the first place, so being born with a low IQ and limited mental abilities is in itself, a contributor to poverty.

Is poverty the result of IQ or vice-versa?

I'mma be straight with you here and tell you that the smartest kids I know were pretty dirt poor.

[RGacky3]

i take people into my home. do you? i give them food. do you?

What does that have to do with anything?


i had one of them attempt to really make themselves better. the other two, oh man, one of them i have brought into my house twice. he got fired from 2 jobs and almost fired from a third job where he was hired to do manual labor. all i have are anecdotes, but i have done quite a bit in my time. this guy had no social skills, he was basically a big stupid asshole who we think might have had some mental issues. he was from ohio if that counts, which sometimes i think it does.


so maybe i base a lot of my values on my own experiences, and not poli sci textbooks (which i have a bachelors in) and it has generally helped me figure out the world a whole lot more.

I have anecdotes as well, I think everyone does, I base my values on reality.


but maybe im selfish for only helping 1 person at a time and not 2. maybe im a jerk for not letting them have my bedroom and i can sleep on the living room floor. perhaps my guest room wasnt enough.


No one here is judging anyones character, we are judging the societal makeup, and the societal make up YOU support is the one that exploits and oppresses and is essnecially inhumane.

BUt as a person I'm sure your a really nice guy, but frankly I don't care because this is a socio-economic and political forum.


and i said i nanother thread (though i dont expect anyone to archive mentally all of my posts) that i used to work at some christian place that helped under-priviliged families and iv spent many a thanksgiving and christmas with people i'd never met before.

Again, irrelivant.


i grew up in poverty and i got out of it. its not hard. do what your teachers told you the whole time. dont do too many drugs, dont pop out kids before you are financially ready, go to school, work while youre at school, maybe youll get lucky.

So if your poor, DON'T SCREW UP ONCE, during your childhood, i.e. don't HAVE a childhood, and maybe you'll get lucky.

If your rich, do whatever you want.

You don't see a problem with a society structured that way?


very few if any restrictions are on anyone trying to take care of themselves. especially in america.

By restrictions do you mean property laws? Because thats the #1 restriction.


or maybe their problems started with themselves and not necessarily external factors? maybe external factors exacerbated the issue but i have seen poor people, i was raised around poor people, at worst, they get used to a social structure or daily routine that is inefficient and they just don't get ahead.

I love this argument, the system has minimal effect, its mainly PERSONAL choice, which is really convenient because it means we don't change the system that got me where I am, and puts everyone down, but I can still feel good about myself because I think that I did it all on my own, and the poor people juts don't have it in them, boy what a good feeling.

Its typical with all class societies, peasents were seen as just lesser people than nobility, they did'nt have noble qualities, no no its not the system, its just personal qualities.

THeres a reason the capitalist class wants to put forth those theories, that the systemic effect is minimal and its all personal choice.


i write with really neat and clear handwriting. its not hard.

i ran a business before. its not hard

i took calculus before. its not hard

i ran a marathon before. its not hard.

i wrestled a bear once. its not hard.

Its not even that, I won the lottery, its not hard. YOU juts need dedication and hard work, I went to the liquor store EVERYDAY, while other people were living life, people should just do what I do and 100% guaranteed it will work, (it did for me).


The is exactly the problem. As long as the bank holds onto this property it is on their books for its full value--if they move it--they value falls and they have to show a loss and no one wants to do that.

The real solution is to change the accounting laws and the tax laws to make it worthwhile for the banks to let go of the property. The problem untimately lies with government.

Because the government is'nt regulating enough? If THATS the problem then te problem is with the market and the govenrment is'nt fixing it.

[Ele'ill]

i grew up in poverty and i got out of it. its not hard.

Improving your financial situation is not the same as getting out of poverty.

On average it's hard- It is at times impossible.



do what your teachers told you the whole time. dont do too many drugs, dont pop out kids before you are financially ready, go to school, work while youre at school, maybe youll get lucky.

'Maybe'?

All of that starts with a decent education- the education system is affected by poverty- in the form of teachers being laid off, attacks on the public education system- library closings etc..

Why is it popular and a good idea to volunteer at shelters and the like but not help out with organizing teacher's unions, public libraries in danger of being closed etc...? We do see it (Philadelphia) but it's limited and not main stream.




and i do understand why some people are poor. its not always externnal factors. its the utmost in patronizing and classism to claim that the poor cant take care of themselves. they dont necessarily need bougie overlords like you forcing other people to take care of them.

You're going to have to explain this in detail- your vague comments are useless.

If I had to guess what you mean I'd say you've obviously never spent any time at all in a shelter, kitchen or otherwise been into contact with any poor or houseless individuals.


There should be no poor- there should be no houseless or displaced individuals.

[Lt. Ferret]

iv spent more time cooking for the poor, delivering food and presents to them, and helping fix their houses up than you ever have, ill wager. and i still think that a lot of times bad habits and values affect how you end up more than the evil capitalists do.


you somehow think that organizing unions somehow does fuck all in the real world. it does nothing. at best, it does osmething, in a best case scenario. but if you think ORGANIZE is the answer to everything, youre the reason that nothing gets done around here. roll up your sleeve your self and go pick trash up off the street, or cook a hot meal for a homeless person. i bought a homeless guy lunch today at jack in the box. a ton of tiny advances is more than sitting around on your ass hoping for a big advance.


some people are poor becuase thye have bad habits, values, and no labor skills. they arent valuable for the labor they produce. that doesnt mean you need to siphon off other people to make sure theyre comfortable past a certain extent.

[RGacky3]

iv spent more time cooking for the poor, delivering food and presents to them, and helping fix their houses up than you ever have, ill wager. and i still think that a lot of times bad habits and values affect how you end up more than the evil capitalists do.

Again, your enlightening adventures don't count for shit, we've all had them, and we've all had them with our pre conceived notions, we've all seen it through our own eyes, and we've all drawn conclusions, what matters here are facts and analysis.

But again, logically, 1% owning more than the bottom 95% is gonna have a huge effect in the macro picture, but again, your not looking at the macro picture because you helped in soup kitchens.

I've done stuff like that as well, and we get it, your a nice guy, get your head out of your ass and lets have a real discussion.


roll up your sleeve your self and go pick trash up off the street, or cook a hot meal for a homeless person. i bought a homeless guy lunch today at jack in the box. a ton of tiny advances is more than sitting around on your ass hoping for a big advance.


Wonderful, make the world a better place.

But again, 1% more than 95%, if you want to change the power structure, even a bit, your going to have to organize, "roll your sleves up" (Arrogant shit right wingers like to say, as if poor people don't try) and organize to change the power structure.

A Slave can keep his slave house clean and tidy, but if he wants to get rid of slavery, you can't do that alone.


it does nothing. at best, it does osmething, in a best case scenario. but if you think ORGANIZE is the answer to everything,

It does nothing? At best it does something?

I think organizing is the answer to capitalism, and the power structure.

It won't help your marriage problems, or help you make dinner, but when ti comes to capitalism and the problems capitalism brings, its a big answer.


some people are poor becuase thye have bad habits, values, and no labor skills. they arent valuable for the labor they produce. that doesnt mean you need to siphon off other people to make sure theyre comfortable past a certain extent.

VALUBLE TO WHO? Oh yeah, rich people (people who will pay them), because thats what matters.

Its interesting that recently A hell of a lot more people developed bad habits, lost their values and labor skills.

Siphon of other people? YOu talking about Capitalists? THe entire stockmarket is siphoning off other people, CEOs and executives make a living from siphonining off other people. But no, your complaining about people who lost their jobs and are now collecting what they payed into.

Look I'm sure your a nice guy when you buy Jack in the Box for homeless folk, and you can hold your head up high, but your attitude toward to poor, is extremely douchy, not only douchy, but flat out wrong.

Theres a reason you NEVER blaim the system, theres a reason you HATE organizing, its because you've bought into a philosophy whose sole perpose is to help the rich, the system helps the rich, and organizing damages their power. Honestly, people like you are suckers.

[Revolution starts with U]

The incentive problem of social welfare has been proven wrong in study after study. It only reflects a small portion of the population. Most government aid reciepients work full time jobs. (So do most drug users as a matter of fact)

[Lt. Ferret]

Again, your enlightening adventures don't count for shit, we've all had them, and we've all had them with our pre conceived notions, we've all seen it through our own eyes, and we've all drawn conclusions, what matters here are facts and analysis.

But again, logically, 1% owning more than the bottom 95% is gonna have a huge effect in the macro picture, but again, your not looking at the macro picture because you helped in soup kitchens.

I've done stuff like that as well, and we get it, your a nice guy, get your head out of your ass and lets have a real discussion.



Wonderful, make the world a better place.

But again, 1% more than 95%, if you want to change the power structure, even a bit, your going to have to organize, "roll your sleves up" (Arrogant shit right wingers like to say, as if poor people don't try) and organize to change the power structure.

A Slave can keep his slave house clean and tidy, but if he wants to get rid of slavery, you can't do that alone.



It does nothing? At best it does something?

I think organizing is the answer to capitalism, and the power structure.

It won't help your marriage problems, or help you make dinner, but when ti comes to capitalism and the problems capitalism brings, its a big answer.



VALUBLE TO WHO? Oh yeah, rich people (people who will pay them), because thats what matters.

Its interesting that recently A hell of a lot more people developed bad habits, lost their values and labor skills.

Siphon of other people? YOu talking about Capitalists? THe entire stockmarket is siphoning off other people, CEOs and executives make a living from siphonining off other people. But no, your complaining about people who lost their jobs and are now collecting what they payed into.

Look I'm sure your a nice guy when you buy Jack in the Box for homeless folk, and you can hold your head up high, but your attitude toward to poor, is extremely douchy, not only douchy, but flat out wrong.

Theres a reason you NEVER blaim the system, theres a reason you HATE organizing, its because you've bought into a philosophy whose sole perpose is to help the rich, the system helps the rich, and organizing damages their power. Honestly, people like you are suckers.


well then shit or get off the pot because apparantly my micro changes in society are useless in the bigger picture. either organize a revolutionary guard that will do something besides debate north koreas merit on revleft or shut up. this posturing is useless and is about as cool as watching someone LARP. go grab a gun and start shooting business men, or make your union your formed at burger king TAKE BACK THE FRANCHISE or whatever it is youre going to do before the swat team uses you for target practice. until then i will help people as i see fit and if that doesn't change things in a macro s ense by itself, so be it.

i dont see how im the sucker, i do well for myself and i help other people. its win win. you can keep up the dream of the REVOLUTION, like most christians dream of armageddon, but it wont happen until you get up and do something, and since i highly doubt youre doing anything but having some council meetings where 12 people show up to masturbate each other intellectually, you are not even a fly on the wall.

but its okay, chicks dig revolutionaries :thumbup1::thumbup1::thumbup1::thumbup1:

[RGacky3]

well then shit or get off the pot because apparantly my micro changes in society are useless in the bigger picture. either organize a revolutionary guard that will do something besides debate north koreas merit on revleft or shut up.

I'm not saying that they are uselss, I'm sure they are nice, but we are talking about SOCIETAL POWER STRUCTURES. Organizing AGAINST the system does much more to shift the system than helping out a homeless guy.


go grab a gun and start shooting business men, or make your union your formed at burger king TAKE BACK THE FRANCHISE or whatever it is youre going to do before the swat team uses you for target practice. until then i will help people as i see fit and if that doesn't change things in a macro s ense by itself, so be it.


People getting paid a decent wage, and having a cartain amount of rights and a voice, is a big deal for those people.


i dont see how im the sucker, i do well for myself and i help other people. its win win. you can keep up the dream of the REVOLUTION, like most christians dream of armageddon, but it wont happen until you get up and do something, and since i highly doubt youre doing anything but having some council meetings where 12 people show up to masturbate each other intellectually, you are not even a fly on the wall.

You don't know what I do, or what anyone else on this board does.

But if your solutoin to homelessness is "Oh theres NOTHING wrong with the system, people just need to be nice like me." Then your a sucker.

[danyboy27]

i grew up in poverty and i got out of it. its not hard. do what your teachers told you the whole time. dont do too many drugs, dont pop out kids before you are financially ready, go to school, work while youre at school, maybe youll get lucky.


and i do understand why some people are poor. its not always externnal factors. its the utmost in patronizing and classism to claim that the poor cant take care of themselves. they dont necessarily need bougie overlords like you forcing other people to take care of them.
The external factor played in favor for you, not so much for most of poor people who go to shit school and have a crappy family education.

i was poor when i was young, but i got out of it mainly beccause of my home education, without it i would be lost right now, i was verry lucky, beccause many other poor people i frequented where not that lucky, had big problems at home and at school, they are either coked or dead today.

i can imagine that for an adult that had shit school and home education, getting out of povrety is not something most poor can achieve out of will.

External factor are everything.

[Ele'ill]

iv spent more time cooking for the poor, delivering food and presents to them, and helping fix their houses up than you ever have, ill wager. and i still think that a lot of times bad habits and values affect how you end up more than the evil capitalists do.

People develop bad habits. Capitalism banks off this. At the same time it demonizes or outright criminalizes any support network that provides a genuine alternative to 'bad habits' and 'poverty'.



you somehow think that organizing unions somehow does fuck all in the real world. it does nothing. at best, it does osmething, in a best case scenario. but if you think ORGANIZE is the answer to everything, youre the reason that nothing gets done around here. roll up your sleeve your self and go pick trash up off the street, or cook a hot meal for a homeless person. i bought a homeless guy lunch today at jack in the box. a ton of tiny advances is more than sitting around on your ass hoping for a big advance.

How about organizing for all of those things you listed? Organizing a trash pick-up, organizing community and neighborhood security, organizing to help those people being evicted.

There are 'Unions' that are corporate patsies- and then there is the essence of a union, there are worker councils, there are organized community social forums, whistle blowers, legal teams, etc..



some people are poor becuase thye have bad habits, values, and no labor skills. they arent valuable for the labor they produce. that doesnt mean you need to siphon off other people to make sure theyre comfortable past a certain extent.

How is it any different than buying someone lunch, once a day, for a year?

[RGacky3]

External factor are everything.

There are honest people like you (and others such as Bill Gates) that realize that people don't live in a bubble and societal/economic and other factors play HUGE roles.

Then there are those that want to think that everything is a bubble, mainly to stroke their own (apparently damaged) ego and to put down those that are poor, but the philosophy that everyone is a bubble plays into that.

[Ele'ill]

Ferret- I also want to point out that your idea of 'everyone doing good as an individual' is extremely unsuccessful in bringing about social change because it only treats the symptoms of the failing system. If you look at what organizing around those issues does you'll see that it produces giant leaps that push a movement or specific struggle forward.

We need communities gaining victories and liberation from the system- we don't need more bandaid dispenseries.