No one wants wealth inequality.

[RGacky3]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/09/23/americans-support-wealth-redistribution_n_736132.html

Very interesting, its so funny how public opinion and the media/washington is so different.

Maybe one day democracy will catch up.

BTW, one of the top issues FOR REPUBLICANS is ending tax cuts to companies shipping overseas, do you think any republican congressman will push for that?

America a beakon of democracy my ass, Iran is more of a beakon than America.

[Nuvem]

People in this country don't understand the forces or individuals who drive our economic structure and actively resist ideas like wealth redistribution. The Obama administration just hints at wealth redistribution- they haven't even acted towards it- and the Right in this country is up in arms and slandering him as a Socialist. Judging from how the Tea party has been acting lately, they're halfway to starting a Socialist witch hunt because Michelle Obama said that "somebody has to give up a piece of the pie so everybody else can have more". Such simple statements of basic logic and pragmatism make millions of people lose their heads.

I swear it's like the entire nation has Stockholm Syndrome.

[Queercommie Girl]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/09/23/americans-support-wealth-redistribution_n_736132.html

Very interesting, its so funny how public opinion and the media/washington is so different.

Maybe one day democracy will catch up.

BTW, one of the top issues FOR REPUBLICANS is ending tax cuts to companies shipping overseas, do you think any republican congressman will push for that?

America a beakon of democracy my ass, Iran is more of a beakon than America.

Hi friend,

Why are you restricted? I quite like some of your views. You are quite wise for an anarchist, you don't seem to be ultra-leftist in your political stance.

[Queercommie Girl]

People in this country don't understand the forces or individuals who drive our economic structure and actively resist ideas like wealth redistribution. The Obama administration just hints at wealth redistribution- they haven't even acted towards it- and the Right in this country is up in arms and slandering him as a Socialist. Judging from how the Tea party has been acting lately, they're halfway to starting a Socialist witch hunt because Michelle Obama said that "somebody has to give up a piece of the pie so everybody else can have more". Such simple statements of basic logic and pragmatism make millions of people lose their heads.

I swear it's like the entire nation has Stockholm Syndrome.

I always like it when Americans begin to criticise America itself. :)

[RGacky3]

Hi friend,

Why are you restricted? I quite like some of your views. You are quite wise for an anarchist, you don't seem to be ultra-leftist in your political stance.

I'm anti-abortion, thanks though.


The Obama administration just hints at wealth redistribution- they haven't even acted towards it-

During the campain he played the progressive, (while collecting corporate money), but the combination of corporate money, him being a wimp (everytime the right wing yells at him he cowers), and him being a middle of the road corporatist, makes him just as bad as the right wing when it comes to economic issues.


Michelle Obama said that "somebody has to give up a piece of the pie so everybody else can have more". Such simple statements of basic logic and pragmatism make millions of people lose their heads.


The liberals in power fold everytime someone yells in their direction, and they wonder why they're gonna loose.

[RGacky3]

Cenk had a great commentary on it,

Where he pointed out that this would require MASSIAVE wealth distribution, that it would require even more socialism that sweeden.

He points out that the country is even more to the left of him, whereas in washington and media HE is considered a crazy ultra left progressive, whereas in reality he's a centrist, and more to the right of the country. He points out that Democrats, who the right wing calls Marxists are WAYYY to the right of the country, who is closer to sweeden, which is still FAR from Marxism.

So whenever you hear people like Bud saying what Americans think, that they are all pro-capitalist and love the way the economy is run ... watch the numbers.

[Havet]

America a beakon of democracy my ass, Iran is more of a beakon than America.

Care to explain?

[Bud Struggle]

So whenever you hear people like Bud saying what Americans think, that they are all pro-capitalist and love the way the economy is run ... watch the numbers.

Another gratuitous "Bud" Comment.


Doo de dooo dooo.

http://www.uunhf.org/unitarian/famous/Rod_Serling.jpg

[Ele'ill]

This thread is going to get good.

[RGacky3]

Care to explain?

The difference between public option and policy.

[Havet]

The difference between public option and policy.

I don't understand what your trying to say. How is Iran more democratic than the U.S.A.?

[RGacky3]

I was saying that toungue in cheek, the Iranian government like the American government really ignores popular opinoin and what the people actually want.

[Havet]

I was saying that toungue in cheek, the Iranian government like the American government really ignores popular opinoin and what the people actually want.

Well do take precautions next time. We wouldn't want others to actually think you actually meant what I had understood. Imagine if it caught on!

[Dean]

Well do take precautions next time. We wouldn't want others to actually think you actually meant what I had understood. Imagine if it caught on!
What exactly what happen if it "caught on"? Or is this just another one of Havet's vague moral crusades?

[Havet]

What exactly what happen if it "caught on"? Or is this just another one of Havet's vague moral crusades?

It would just show how hopeless and idealist is any talk of materialist analysis and scientific facts when such unfounded and untrue ideas gain so many supporters.

[RGacky3]

It would just show how hopeless and idealist is any talk of materialist analysis and scientific facts when such unfounded and untrue ideas gain so many supporters.

I don't thin the idea that Iran is more democratic than the US is in danger of that, except the idea that the US is the beakon of democracy IS that.

[Dean]

It would just show how hopeless and idealist is any talk of materialist analysis and scientific facts when such unfounded and untrue ideas gain so many supporters.
Some people developing erroneous concepts about democracy certainly wont lead to "show" how materialist analysis or science are "hopeless."

In fact, I'm inclined to think that they have little to nothing to do with each other at all.

You strike me as someone who doesn't read the news, given these grandiose claims you make about unfounded ideas becoming popular. If you did watch the news, you'd be aware of far more dangerous and incorrect ideas which have much more footing - namely, the assumption that western democracy is democratic in any significant way.

[Havet]

I seriously hope neither of you believe that just because the USA is not a beacon of democracy that other nations, such as Iran, are more democratic than the USA.

I also would advise to drop the word democracy and substitute it by either representative democracy and/or direct democracy, according to each situation.

You want direct democracy, the usa is a representative democracy, and Iran is NO democracy, whether representative or direct.


Some people developing erroneous concepts about democracy certainly wont lead to "show" how materialist analysis or science are "hopeless."

No one said that. Stop distorting the meaning of my sentences. What I said, and I was clear about it, was that in order for someone to believe in materialist analysis and scientific facts (which I hope we all do), then the proposition "Iran is more of a beacon of democracy than America" only shows how that person is not applying all his/her methods of analysis to all his/her beliefs.

Now, RGacky3 already said that he was sort of joking when he said that, so he straightened my doubts over what he had said.

And I do watch the news (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KucV8renOfI), just so you know

And western democracy IS democratic. The issue here is that its not as much democratic as a lot of folks would prefer, you and me included.

[Dean]

I seriously hope neither of you believe that just because the USA is not a beacon of democracy that other nations, such as Iran, are more democratic than the USA.

I also would advise to drop the word democracy and substitute it by either representative democracy and/or direct democracy, according to each situation.

You want direct democracy, the usa is a representative democracy, and Iran is NO democracy, whether representative or direct.
No I don't. I want decentralized control of the economy and political mechanisms.

Why should we drop the term "democracy"? Just because it will suit your characterization of Iran, no doubt.

But we've already seen that the erupting social situation in Iran is much more grassroots and democratic than the childish repeated visits to polls in western nations to vote in meaningless elections.


No one said that. Stop distorting the meaning of my sentences. What I said, and I was clear about it, was that in order for someone to believe in materialist analysis and scientific facts (which I hope we all do), then the proposition "Iran is more of a beacon of democracy than America" only shows how that person is not applying all his/her methods of analysis to all his/her beliefs.

You said:

It would just show how hopeless and idealist is any talk of materialist analysis and scientific facts when such unfounded and untrue ideas gain so many supporters.
-"So many supporters" is not "RGacky3."
-"Hopeless and idealist is any talk" has nothing to do with "this person is not applying ... analysis"

In fact, your childish moralizing about Iran is hopeless and idealist. And in no way, shape or form did you "make it clear" that you were referring solely to RGacky3 and his concept of democracy.

I'm calling you out because your concept of democracy has absolutely no basis in the real power of people, and your strange obsession with distancing Iran from the term has no real basis in material differences. It relies on your obsession with the characteristics of the regime rather than the people, and hence leaves out the dynamics of the latter.

[RGacky3]

I seriously hope neither of you believe that just because the USA is not a beacon of democracy that other nations, such as Iran, are more democratic than the USA.

I also would advise to drop the word democracy and substitute it by either representative democracy and/or direct democracy, according to each situation.

You want direct democracy, the usa is a representative democracy, and Iran is NO democracy, whether representative or direct.

Democracy means people rule, so its pretty easy to figure out, does the population have control over the rulership mechanisms? One way to fiure that out is are the rulership mechanisms responsive to popular will.

In the US the answer is no, its not that hard. I'm not talking about a specific system, I'm talking about is the will of the people being done? DO they control the political process, in the US the answer is no.


What I said, and I was clear about it, was that in order for someone to believe in materialist analysis and scientific facts (which I hope we all do), then the proposition "Iran is more of a beacon of democracy than America" only shows how that person is not applying all his/her methods of analysis to all his/her beliefs.

Now, RGacky3 already said that he was sort of joking when he said that, so he straightened my doubts over what he had said.


I was joking (I don't think Iran is democratic at all), but that does'nt mean that the US is nessesarily much more democratic, in many respects is not, just look at the difference between public opinion and public policy, the US is'nt really democratic at all.

Now thats not nessesarily the electoral system, its the economic powers that be in the US (that are not in Iran, theres its more religious powers).


And western democracy IS democratic. The issue here is that its not as much democratic as a lot of folks would prefer, you and me included.

Not all "western democracies are made equal" The US is probably the least democratic society amung the "western Democracies."