When Cuban Emigrants Start Che Hating

[Fulanito de Tal]

The following happens to me a lot.

I'll be out at a bar, walking around school or someone will come to my apartment, etc., and I'll have a Che shirt on or I mention something about him. A Cuban emigrant (gusano) will come up to me and start telling me how he's a murderer and go off on a tangent about Fidel Castro.

This is a good way to respond to that, besides going off on the person.

"When Che Guevara became famous, he was popular around the world, especially among college age students, as a liberator and for fighting against oppressors. He was loved in Cuba (still is). Its possible that some of this admiration may have come from propaganda made by the revolutionary government, but how much influence could that government have had on the entire world? It would be too big of a stretch that people in France, Sweden, UK, and South America like him from Cuba's propaganda. I can't imagine that a poor island with a new government would have the skills necessary to formulate such a wide-reaching deceptive campaign. When he died in 1967, he was still popular. So sometime in between 1967 and now, something happened that made him a "bad guy". Here is my question to you. What did Che do after he died that made him so bad?"

This has worked many times to get a gusano off of my back. Any critique will be welcomed. Also, if you have any other replies, I would be glad to hear them as this happens to me a lot.

[mykittyhasaboner]

You should be careful about which gusanos you argue with. Just sayin'.

Not all of them fight with words.

[Fulanito de Tal]

Not all of them fight with words.

True. I grew up in Miami, so I know some about the "exile" community. There are those I can talk to, those I never agree with but can still enjoy other stuff with, those that make a scene, and those that terrorize.

[RadioRaheem84]

Be careful about any right wing groups.

In Houston, there is a huge right wing anti-Communist Vietnamese population with considerable cash flow to spread lies about Ho Chi Minh. It's dangerous to talk bad about South Vietnam and give praise to the NLF.

[Jazzhands]

OK, but if a more elderly one says something like "Castro or Che killed my father/son/daughter/cousin" or "I was denied a PHD in Cuba because I spoke out against Castro!" what happens then?

I had a Cuban immigrant teacher who actually said the second thing once. She described Cuba to us one day. apparently the slang for state-owned burger joints is McCastro's.:lol:

[Comrade Gwydion]

Actually, it's a really bad argument.

" Castro and communism in general, for the past 60 years, has been disliked in france, britain, usa, everywhere. So how can communism be worth anything?"

[Fulanito de Tal]

"Castro or Che killed my father/son/daughter/cousin"

This situation is tough, because if it's true, then you're talking about a personal issue and not a political one. This person is more worried with compensation for his or he loss than a collective issue. In this case, I would console the person for his or her loss and leave the politics aside.


"I was denied a PHD in Cuba because I spoke out against Castro!"

I've heard many stories about people saying stuff like this. Many people like to confuse the situation to blame the Cuban Revolution. I remember one time where a Cuban guy told me that he went to jail for trying to promote the creation of a capitalist party in Cuba. I asked him to share his story and this is what really happened... He created a scene (yelling and acting crazy) and the police were called. The police showed up to see what happened and the guy pulled out a machete and threatened the cops. So I asked him, "Did they charge you with threatening the cops with a machete?" He confirmed it. I asked him to explain how that is a political arrest and he could not. In the end, we both concluded that he was not arrest for political reasons, but for threatening the police. He later mentioned that his sentence was extended because that was his second offense. The other had something to do with assault or something violent.

I think having left Cuba gives a lot of people the ability to blame the revolution for their misfortunes because others would believe it. Whether it is true or not, you would have to dig deeper, and that still might not suffice.

A good reply, if you want to be confrontational or stand your ground, would be to ask your teacher why a lot of poor kids aren't allowed to go to college (Bachelor level, not even PhD) because their parents, for whatever reason that is out of the child's control, were short on money. They lived in a poor area that had underfunded schools which did not prepare them for college to begin with.
Any suggestions?

[Jazzhands]

:laugh::laugh::laugh:I lol'd so hard at that machete guy.



A good reply, if you want to be confrontational or stand your ground, would be to ask your teacher why a lot of poor kids aren't allowed to go to college (Bachelor level, not even PhD) because their parents, for whatever reason that is out of the child's control, were short on money. They lived in a poor area that had underfunded schools which did not prepare them for college to begin with.
Any suggestions?

Well, it's a good idea, and I agree. But:

That doesn't change the fact that this person was denied a PhD, not for monetary reasons, but for political ones. If you use that argument, that comes down to the question of which is worse: repression by economics or repression by politics? I don't know the story, and I was always too busy to ask, but if that's true, you can't really leave politics aside in this case. They're what shaped her life and career. I really doubt she would be quite as levelheaded with people she thinks is responsible for that.

[Barry Lyndon]

Cuban immigrants to the U.S. are far from politically homogeneous. I have met anti-Castro Cubans, to be sure, but I have also met pro-Castro Cubans as well. The latter came to the United States because of economic problems in the 1980's and 90's, but are not hostile to Castro or Che or socialism in general. The former are largely descended from the upper class and Batista supporters who fled in the immediate aftermath of the Revolution, and whose abiding hatred for the Communist regime is rooted in that they lost the obscene wealth they felt entitled to. It's also notable that they are usually so white and are so Americanized that you can't even tell they are Cuban until they tell you, a reflection of the deeply racist class society that existed in Cuba prior to the Revolution.

So when I run into those types who start spouting right-wing propaganda and expect to silence me by saying 'I'm Cuban, so I know', I'm able to counter that they do not speak for all Cubans, that line of argument is absurd. That's as if a foreigner should accept what a Tea Party supporter says about American politics because he is American. The reason we hear their voices is that Washington gives these Cubans a platform as loyal dispensers of anti-communist propaganda.

For all oligarchs and economic parasites, their last fallback in case of revolution is to run for safety to the citadel of world reaction. On my college campus, I have personally run into a supporter of the Iranian shah(who was working as an interpreter for an Iranian 'dissident' invited to speak by my college's conservative student group), a Nicaraguan student who bragged about his family being supporters of the Contras, and a Venezuelan student(sitting in a supposed 'leftist' meeting!) who admitted to being a supporter of the 2002 coup against Chavez.

[anticap]

For all oligarchs and economic parasites, their last fallback in case of revolution is to run for safety to the citadel of world reaction.

:lol: Man, you have a real way with words. I really enjoy reading your posts, whether I agree with you or not.

I changed my location from "U$"; check it out.

[Jazzhands]

:lol: Man, you have a real way with words. I really enjoy reading your posts, whether I agree with you or not.

I changed my location from "U$"; check it out.

niiiice...

never thought of them that way. The Cubans, I mean.

[Magón]

The title shouldn't be" "When Cuban Emigrants Start Che Hating", it should be "When haven't Cuban Emigrants hated Che"; that's much more fitting to the Cuban Exiles.

[GreenCommunism]

many people who thought they unfairly didn't get jobs in east germany found out they had no stasi file after the fall of east germany.

i feel that many of those so-called cuban exiles simply lie.

[RadioRaheem84]

Met a Nepali guy a few weeks ago working at a gas station who said he hated the Maoists. It took him a while but he finally admitted to me that he has parents who are connected to the former Monarchy that was disposed. He says life is not good for the rich over there because they lost political power and it as given to poor people who he deemed too dumb to govern and fall for communist propaganda.

It's always the same stuff with these people. A very small portion of their tales are legit.

[Fulanito de Tal]

That doesn't change the fact that this person was denied a PhD, not for monetary reasons, but for political ones. If you use that argument, that comes down to the question of which is worse: repression by economics or repression by politics?

The thing is that people that move to the US from Cuba can use the revolution for any personal issues they may have had, whether that be incarceration or rejection from PhD school.

Here's a hypothetical situation that may help. I don't know the PhD application process in Cuba, so I will use the US model to illustrate an example. To get into a PhD program, we typically have to supply GRE scores, academic references, a personal statement, transcripts, and work and academic experience. I will focus on the references and personal statement. Let's say that I believe in feudalism and I apply to the flagship university in my state. I have been promoting feudalism throughout my undergrad and Master's program and my professors know me for that. Because it's a requirement, I ask my favorite professors to write recommendation letters for me. Also, in my personal statement, I write that I would like to investigate possible benefits from changing the US economic model from capitalism to feudalism. If I don't get accepted, could I claim political repression like your teacher?

I would like to hear your response.

[Fulanito de Tal]

Cuban immigrants to the U.S. are far from politically homogeneous. I have met anti-Castro Cubans, to be sure, but I have also met pro-Castro Cubans as well. The latter came to the United States because of economic problems in the 1980's and 90's, but are not hostile to Castro or Che or socialism in general.

I enjoyed reading your post and found relief in knowing that there are others that understand the situation.

I would also like to add that Miami has a a propaganda system funded by the US government to create hate for Cuba among recent Cuban immigrants. One such program is Radio Mambi in which, I swear, all they do is talk bad about the revolution.

In a particular incident, a Cuban musical group, David Calzado y su Charanga Habanera, went to Miami to sing/play music. They have one song in which they say, "Tu llorando en Miami, y yo gozando en La Habana." Translated, that says, "You crying in Miami, and me enjoying in Havana." However, the exiles paid the group, which the money went to the Cuban state, to sing, "You enjoying in Miami, and me enjoying in Havana."

I don't have the ability to post links yet, but if you youtube search "david calzado y su charanga habanera miami", the first video covers the story in Spanish.

[Fulanito de Tal]

Be careful about any right wing groups.

In Houston, there is a huge right wing anti-Communist Vietnamese population with considerable cash flow to spread lies about Ho Chi Minh. It's dangerous to talk bad about South Vietnam and give praise to the NLF.

I was not aware of this. Thanks for letting me know.