Leftist Admits He Hates The Working Class

[Phased Out]

. . . As much as the good liberal inside all of us wants to sing a Fanfare for the Common Man while lecturing ourselves on the nobility and wisdom of the salt-of-the-earth types who populate this country, seeing them usually just makes me sad. If that means I am a terrible person, I am a terrible person. Toothless hillbillies in pro wrestling t-shirts. A pack of juggalo teenagers. Morbidly obese women in halter tops and jorts. Eighteen year old girls and their three children. Sullen, sunburned yokels slapping their children as other sullen, sunburned yokels look on, understanding the impulse and approving of the act. Baggy-panted black kids getting in fistfights. . . .

Source: Giantandtacos.com

I realize it says "liberal" and are thus considered part of the reactionaries among all of you, but he does have a valid point there. It seems like a proletariat victory requires an enormous amount of discipline, brainpower and a highly functioning future outlook on life.

Sad to say, many of the working class in the USA lacks those qualities. Thus, making communism an impossibility here.

[Bud Struggle]

That's a FUNNY website!

http://www.ginandtacos.com/

The guy is a definite liberal though.

[Lt. Ferret]

I won't lie, I've seen those people too, and came to the conclusion that we can never let them take power. Ever.

[communard71]

As opposed to the handsome, muscular, well-dressed CEO’s who run the world? What a joke. :D
The disciplined cohort that makes capitalism possible is the military and police, as always. If “regular” people appear ill-suited to “run the world,” it is primarily because the powerful have insured that they have as little responsibility as possible in that regard while shipping jobs across the globe, diminishing the industrial proletariats size and power in western countries. The trick is, not to put faith in masters, but in our own ability to change people’s understanding before giving up on them.

[Lt. Ferret]

They have given up on themselves.

[Phased Out]

As opposed to the handsome, muscular, well-dressed CEO’s who run the world? What a joke. :D
The disciplined cohort that makes capitalism possible is the military and police, as always. If “regular” people appear ill-suited to “run the world,” it is primarily because the powerful have insured that they have as little responsibility as possible in that regard while shipping jobs across the globe, diminishing the industrial proletariats size and power in western countries. The trick is, not to put faith in masters, but in our own ability to change people’s understanding before giving up on them.


Who would you rather be in company with? The typical American prole? Or a well dressed person with middle class values?

The rich overwhelmingly vote Democrat, particularly for Obama in the last election.

It's the proles who make up the military and police.

The typical American prole will never understand communism as it requires cooperation. And lower IQ individuals are less cooperative than their higher IQ counterparts.

In season three of The Apprentice, Donald Trump separated the participants into the college educated team and the non-college-educated team. In that episode we saw the differences between the college educated and the non-college educated, which is basically the difference between the lower classes and the middle/upper-middle class.

The non-college educated team, basically, lacks class. They were screaming and yelling at each other, using the "F" word, and putting off the motel guests with their loudness. The ritualistic polite behavior of the college educates allows them to work better as a team.

One of the non-college educated people was supposedly a "self-made millionaire" at the age of 29. But he was also an abrasive moron with absolutely no self control. This proves that you can be a person with few redeeming qualities and still be successful in real-estate sales. A very important life lesson there.

[communard71]

The convenient thing about that attitude is that it relieves you of any responsibility whatsoever. Just relax, you’re off the hook. The world is garbage, peopled by idiots, and there is absolutely no way to change it.

[Lt. Ferret]

The convenient thing about that attitude is that it has worked well to help me succeed in life on my own terms.

[communard71]

Are you serious phased out? It’s difficult to have a discussion with a person who uses a freakin ridiculous TV show to learn life lessons! Give me a break.

[communard71]

The convenient thing about that attitude is that it has worked well to help me succeed in life on my own terms.

and thats all that matters lt. just you.

[Volcanicity]

The convenient thing about that attitude is that it has worked well to help me succeed in life on my own terms.
If you want to succeed in life on your own terms why are you here?

[Bilan]

The convenient thing about that attitude is that it has worked well to help me succeed in life on my own terms.

No, it isn't. The fact that you have the right attitude has very little to do with your success in life.
It is, of course, beneficial. But only marginally. You don't think there are millions of people who don't have this same attitude, and who don't succeed? I ask you why this is the case.

[Admiral Swagmeister G-Funk]

I can't believe people are debating over this ridiculous generalisation. I'll admit that there are ignorant layers of workers, but many workers aren't, and in most cases it is not their fault if they do not understand communism properly, or if they buy into right wing rhetoric (as a result of the propaganda that has been force fed to them since nursery!).

Leftists are fighting against an international capitalist media machine that does whatever it can to keep workers ignorant.

Many workers I know are respectable, rational and intelligent. If you hate the working class then you're not a leftist at all!

[Lt. Ferret]

No, it isn't. The fact that you have the right attitude has very little to do with your success in life.
It is, of course, beneficial. But only marginally. You don't think there are millions of people who don't have this same attitude, and who don't succeed? I ask you why this is the case.


They don't have that attitude because they put their values in different things. They react differently to situations, and their values change along the way.

[anticap]

Toothless hillbillies in pro wrestling t-shirts.

Toothlessness attributable in large part to the lack of a proper dental-care system.

Pro-wrestling fandom attributable in large part to capitalist advertising, and to a culture (fostered by the ruling class to groom a war-ready populace) that glorifies gratuitous violence-as-spectacle.

A pack of juggalo teenagers.

This is just the author's latent conservatism showing. If it were the '60s then it might have read "A pack of mop-topped Beatles fans."

Morbidly obese women in halter tops and jorts.

Obesity attributable in large part to the lack of a proper health-care system, and to capitalist advertising, and to the food industry, and to a culture (fostered by the ruling class to groom an insatiable populace) that glorifies gratuitous consumption.

As to the clothing, who is the author to dictate who may or may not dress as comfort and the weather dictate?

Eighteen year old girls and their three children.

Attributable in large part to the lack of a proper education system, and to a general squeamishness around sexuality fostered by religious intrusion into the public sphere.

Sullen, sunburned yokels slapping their children as other sullen, sunburned yokels look on, understanding the impulse and approving of the act.

Improper parenting attributable in large part to the lack of a proper education system, and to the "spare the rod, spoil the child" mentality fostered by religion.

Sunburns attributable at least in part to having to work outdoors for a living, unlike the author.

Baggy-panted black kids getting in fistfights.

What the fuck is this racist tripe? Do white kids not get into fistfights? Do they not wear baggy pants? The author could have made the same point without the word "black," but chose to insert it anyway because they accept the racist stereotype.

Anyway, the violence is attributable in large part to the lack of a proper education system including the teaching of conflict-resolution skills, and to a myriad of other things (especially when it comes to violence among minorities, who get short shrift in all such areas).

[Revolution starts with U]

I wish I could thank that twice anti-cap. Not liking the lifestyle's that some worker's choose to live says nothing about whether you dislike worker's or not. I dislike that some socialists are Stalinists, that doesn't mean I hate socialists.

And when you say "the rich voted for obama" do you mean the bou's, or the petty bou's?

[The Red Next Door]

I can hear the elitism in his words, unlike him most working people don't have time to set up and write this type of shit about people.

[brigadista]

that person is no leftist -

going to let LKJ say it for me because he says it so well - this of course applies to all bourgies

"..dem full a flaw.."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pY0hdmDn_cI

[Havet]

It's the proles who make up the military and police.


Do you have any scientific study to prove that assertion?

[bcbm]

wait did someone just compare the beatles to juggalos?

[Lt. Ferret]

and thats all that matters lt. just you.


so working hard is...dumb? unwarranted? having goals is...traitorious to your class? becoming educated...no bueno? you're losing me here.


:thumbup1: id like everyone to be educated, well fed, and happy. one day it will happen. me intentionally failing in no way allows that to occur, now does it?

[Phased Out]

The convenient thing about that attitude is that it relieves you of any responsibility whatsoever. Just relax, you’re off the hook. The world is garbage, peopled by idiots, and there is absolutely no way to change it.

What exactly am I responsible for? Are you suggesting that the proper role of the middle and upper classes is to properly educate and tell how the proles should behave? If so, then they've failed miserably.

[Revolution starts with U]

Ha, yes they fail miserably because wtf are they to tell the proles what = good life (nor is it the proles role to tell them). It's the people as whole's role to educate themselves. I don't find it a coincidence at all that the more educated you are, the more likely you are to be a leftist.

[Phased Out]

Are you serious phased out? It’s difficult to have a discussion with a person who uses a freakin ridiculous TV show to learn life lessons! Give me a break.

If you weren't so close minded, you wouldn't have said such a thing. What I got from it is that our society is now marketing oriented and no longer information oriented, hustle can count more than book smarts. In that episode, the college team’s real advantage is not their book smarts, but their ability to get along with each other better.

Think about that for a minute.


The convenient thing about that attitude is that it has worked well to help me succeed in life on my own terms.

You sound like a member of the Tea Party.


Many workers I know are respectable, rational and intelligent. If you hate the working class then you're not a leftist at all!

Probably true for Western Europe and portions of the East and Mediterranean but definitely not the USA.

I have noticed that the primary reason why it sucks to be poor is that you have to live near other poor people. And the reason you don’t want to live next to poor people is because they have underclass values.

But, what would happen if poor people had the same middle class values as everyone else? Well, if that were the case, a major motivation for not being poor would be removed. People wouldn’t be motivated to work extra hard in order to insulate themselves from poor people.

This explains why Europe is different than the United States.



Toothlessness attributable in large part to the lack of a proper dental-care system.

What about a toothbrush, toothpaste and healthy eating? Even if there was universal dental care, the stupid people of this country still wouldn't take advantage of it.


This is just the author's latent conservatism showing. If it were the '60s then it might have read "A pack of mop-topped Beatles fans."

You have lost credibility in anything you have to say about anything.



Obesity attributable in large part to the lack of a proper health-care system, and to capitalist advertising, and to the food industry, and to a culture (fostered by the ruling class to groom an insatiable populace) that glorifies gratuitous consumption.

Is there such a thing called "personal responsibility" in your world?


Attributable in large part to the lack of a proper education system, and to a general squeamishness around sexuality fostered by religious intrusion into the public sphere.

So we should be teaching proper middle-class values in school? Great. I'm all for it.


Improper parenting attributable in large part to the lack of a proper education system, and to the "spare the rod, spoil the child" mentality fostered by religion.


Are you serious phased out? It’s difficult to have a discussion with a person who uses a freakin ridiculous TV show to learn life lessons! Give me a break.

If you weren't so close minded, you wouldn't have said such a thing. What I got from it is that our society is now marketing oriented and no longer information oriented, hustle can count more than book smarts. In that episode, the college team’s real advantage is not their book smarts, but their ability to get along with each other better.

Think about that for a minute.


The convenient thing about that attitude is that it has worked well to help me succeed in life on my own terms.

You sound like a member of the Tea Party.


Many workers I know are respectable, rational and intelligent. If you hate the working class then you're not a leftist at all!

Probably true for Western Europe and portions of the East and Mediterranean but definitely not the USA.

I have noticed that the primary reason why it sucks to be poor is that you have to live near other poor people. And the reason you don’t want to live next to poor people is because they have underclass values.

But, what would happen if poor people had the same middle class values as everyone else? Well, if that were the case, a major motivation for not being poor would be removed. People wouldn’t be motivated to work extra hard in order to insulate themselves from poor people.

This explains why Europe is different than the United States.



Toothlessness attributable in large part to the lack of a proper dental-care system.

What about a toothbrush, toothpaste and healthy eating? Even if there was universal dental care, the stupid people of this country still wouldn't take advantage of it.


This is just the author's latent conservatism showing. If it were the '60s then it might have read "A pack of mop-topped Beatles fans."

You have lost credibility in anything you have to say about anything.



Obesity attributable in large part to the lack of a proper health-care system, and to capitalist advertising, and to the food industry, and to a culture (fostered by the ruling class to groom an insatiable populace) that glorifies gratuitous consumption.

Is there such a thing called "personal responsibility" in your world?


Attributable in large part to the lack of a proper education system, and to a general squeamishness around sexuality fostered by religious intrusion into the public sphere.

So we should be teaching proper middle-class values in school? Great. I'm all for it.



What the fuck is this racist tripe? Do white kids not get into fistfights? Do they not wear baggy pants? The author could have made the same point without the word "black," but chose to insert it anyway because they accept the racist stereotype.

Even if he didn't insert the word "black", you still would've stated that what he said implied racism.


Anyway, the violence is attributable in large part to the lack of a proper education system including the teaching of conflict-resolution skills, and to a myriad of other things (especially when it comes to violence among minorities, who get short shrift in all such areas).


Are you serious phased out? It’s difficult to have a discussion with a person who uses a freakin ridiculous TV show to learn life lessons! Give me a break.

If you weren't so close minded, you wouldn't have said such a thing. What I got from it is that our society is now marketing oriented and no longer information oriented, hustle can count more than book smarts. In that episode, the college team’s real advantage is not their book smarts, but their ability to get along with each other better.

Think about that for a minute.


The convenient thing about that attitude is that it has worked well to help me succeed in life on my own terms.

You sound like a member of the Tea Party.


Many workers I know are respectable, rational and intelligent. If you hate the working class then you're not a leftist at all!

Probably true for Western Europe and portions of the East and Mediterranean but definitely not the USA.

I have noticed that the primary reason why it sucks to be poor is that you have to live near other poor people. And the reason you don’t want to live next to poor people is because they have underclass values.

But, what would happen if poor people had the same middle class values as everyone else? Well, if that were the case, a major motivation for not being poor would be removed. People wouldn’t be motivated to work extra hard in order to insulate themselves from poor people.

This explains why Europe is different than the United States.



Toothlessness attributable in large part to the lack of a proper dental-care system.

What about a toothbrush, toothpaste and healthy eating? Even if there was universal dental care, the stupid people of this country still wouldn't take advantage of it.


This is just the author's latent conservatism showing. If it were the '60s then it might have read "A pack of mop-topped Beatles fans."

You have lost credibility in anything you have to say about anything.



Obesity attributable in large part to the lack of a proper health-care system, and to capitalist advertising, and to the food industry, and to a culture (fostered by the ruling class to groom an insatiable populace) that glorifies gratuitous consumption.

Is there such a thing called "personal responsibility" in your world?


Attributable in large part to the lack of a proper education system, and to a general squeamishness around sexuality fostered by religious intrusion into the public sphere.

So we should be teaching proper middle-class values in school? Great. I'm all for it.

[Dean]

so working hard is...dumb? unwarranted? having goals is...traitorious to your class? becoming educated...no bueno? you're losing me here.


:thumbup1: id like everyone to be educated, well fed, and happy. one day it will happen. me intentionally failing in no way allows that to occur, now does it?
If you're in the US military, your failing in your objectives probably does serve as a net benefit to the working class.

[Lt. Ferret]

If you're in the US military, your failing in your objectives probably does serve as a net benefit to the working class.


thats quite a baseless assumption, if for no other reason than i know how to fight military style.

you going to anime or messageboard imperialists to death? get real.

[Jimmie Higgins]

Probably true for Western Europe and portions of the East and Mediterranean but definitely not the USA.Well also from television, do you know what other people are shown to be brutish and dumb in pop culture: British industrial workers from the North, Eastenders in London, French service workers, French transit and shipping workers, French country-people, Itialian country-people, urban Itialian workers, Scillian fishermen, Immigrants from North Africa, migrant Roma.

Yes, many workers are dumb and thugs and even racists or sexists or homophobes. Do you know who else is? Rich people, middle class people, politicians! What do you think of Donald Trump - should he run society? George Bush?


I have noticed that the primary reason why it sucks to be poor is that you have to live near other poor people. And the reason you don’t want to live next to poor people is because they have underclass values.No, it sucks because you have less choices in life and no control over your life - in fact this is where most hostility comes from - people feel disrespected all the time and have chips on their shoulders.


But, what would happen if poor people had the same middle class values as everyone else? Well, if that were the case, a major motivation for not being poor would be removed. People wouldn’t be motivated to work extra hard in order to insulate themselves from poor people. No, ideas alone do not change material conditions.


What about a toothbrush, toothpaste and healthy eating? Even if there was universal dental care, the stupid people of this country still wouldn't take advantage of it.Excuse me? You simply don't know what you are talking about. have you ever gone to a free clinic - do you know what that's like and the amount of effort and bureaucracy poor people have to go through to get any basic care? Most do because they have to - some people just give up


Is there such a thing called "personal responsibility" in your world?So in a time when for poor people there is maybe 25% unemployment (that what it is for black people and young people in Oakland); when people are being kicked out of their homes because of bad gambling by banks; when state workers in places like California are receiving furloughs and cuts and layoffs; when the US has a higher per-capita incarceration rate than Nazi Germany and is building prisons while de-funding education; when colleges are becoming unaffordable; when wages have stagnated for a generation while profits have increased dramatically; when 44 million people in the US live below the poverty line...

...the problem for the working class and poor is "bad values"?:blink:


So we should be teaching proper middle-class values in school? Great. I'm all for it.What are "middle class values" - give some examples of how they will help people concretely.

[communard71]

so working hard is...dumb? unwarranted? having goals is...traitorious to your class? becoming educated...no bueno? you're losing me here.


:thumbup1: id like everyone to be educated, well fed, and happy. one day it will happen. me intentionally failing in no way allows that to occur, now does it?

I'm not losing you, you’re lost. The proletariat works hard, has goals (as individuals and a group) and strives for education. Saying “one day it will happen” regarding food, education and happiness without considering how it will happen is where you are lost. Regular people must struggle every day against the people who would have us serve them, work for them, and yes, even kill and die for them. Nobody says you have to fail, that’s Fox news talking; leftists just demand that you choose sides. Believe me; the capitalists have enough help without you touting the merits of hard work and discipline as a method-for-success mantra.
In the end lieutenant, you are, I fear, their loyal lackey. :(

[Lt. Ferret]

I'm not losing you, you’re lost. The proletariat works hard, has goals (as individuals and a group) and strives for education. Saying “one day it will happen” regarding food, education and happiness without considering how it will happen is where you are lost. Regular people must struggle every day against the people who would have us serve them, work for them, and yes, even kill and die for them. Nobody says you have to fail, that’s Fox news talking; leftists just demand that you choose sides. Believe me; the capitalists have enough help without you touting the merits of hard work and discipline as a method-for-success mantra.
In the end lieutenant, you are, I fear, their loyal lackey. :(


oh okay. even revolutionaries should be working hard. not sitting around fretting on a message board. what are you doing today, comrade?

[Conquer or Die]

wait did someone just compare the beatles to juggalos?

You don't have to be a fan of the Beatles to understand and applaud the disgust hurled towards self styled juggalos. It's not only poor music. It's not only nihilistic. It's Machiavellian consumerism celebrating those things. Freedom of Speech takes a bigger hit than Koran burning when the Juggalos are involved.

[Revolution starts with U]

"Hey ***** boy, where the fuck you goin? Don't you know they don't like richies where you goin?"
"Rich boy richie, you might get hurt. Dead carnival clowns puttin in work."
"You and your kind (richies) created this freakshow (the ghetto)."
"little world has created this monsta, see me livin with a dead body in a dumpsta. Laughin in your castle but I can't cross your moat. So then I take a boat, and cut your fuckin throat!"
"Stab you in the back of the head, why not? Your lil governor is takin everything I got. I can't feed a family, I can't feed a dog, so I cut your fuckin head off.. eh?"
"Everything you've ever done to me is out of hate, I'm beggin on me knees but you slam your fuckin gate. So I pick myself up and I sneak around the back, and took your money stack, and snapped your fuckin neck."

Plus, Mike E Clark easily rivals even Dre both in skill with a beat (take the lyrics off it, check it out) and proliferation.

I would think rev-leftists would have more sympathy for what happens when uneducated and disenfranchised proles express themselves on economic issues. It's not terribly intelligent (fuckin magnets, how do they work?!), and pretty juvenile. But do you watch Jason or Freddie for hard-hitting social issues either?

[Conquer or Die]

Plus, Mike E Clark easily rivals even Dre both in skill with a beat (take the lyrics off it, check it out) and proliferation.

This is hilarious. Do not speak about rap ever again unless you educate yourself.


I would think rev-leftists would have more sympathy for what happens when uneducated and disenfranchised proles express themselves on economic issues. It's not terribly intelligent (fuckin magnets, how do they work?!), and pretty juvenile. But do you watch Jason or Freddie for hard-hitting social issues either?

It's Machiavellian consumerism. They sold themselves out to MTV the second they got the chance. They were also shit kicking fucktards who didn't cut anybody a break in the white rap circuit in Detroit. They're from working class suburbia (which means they got their ass beat once and stole gum from 7-11) and claimed that their neighborhood was similar to Vietnam.

Don't be so overtly sheltered white. Rappers are rappers because they aren't hard and didn't get the worst of the ghetto. They were the intellectual, artistic member of the clique that spoke last and did the dirty deeds last too.

Now don't get confused here. I'm not saying ghetto rappers weren't in a bad situation and didn't have to live much harder lives than most in America. I'm saying that in those situations they weren't the big dogs.

Then compound that with the fact that ICP didn't live or experience anything near a ghetto and you can take your liberal guilt tripe to the door.

[Che a chara]

I.C. fucking P. lol.

two fucking pricks without any musical talent. can't rap to save their lives or play instruments and had Mike E Clarke do all their studio work for them. Given, they used to have some funny, funny shit years back, but they offer nothing in social understanding and even less in trying to stabilise their fan base and also have sold every merchandise product you can think of.

Don't get me started on the 'Juggalos', ffs, what a bunch of nonsense. think their gangsters, but really just immersed/brainwashed in some sort of cult worship. I don't know what social or economic situation would lead them to such a persuasion . loneliness perhaps ? but that doesn't excuse their obnoxious and aggressive outlook.

much clown love. whoop, whoop. :laugh:

[Revolution starts with U]

Don't get me wrong, I agree with what you're saying. But you can't discount neither the size of the (admittedly hilariously lame) juggalo culture, and the impact it has had on millions of reformed, former juggalos.
It is the crying out of a poor white kid with no dad living in a place way above his means and feeling disenfranchised and violent by what he sees. Like I said, just like Saw, if you're watching it for its politics (and there is some there) you're doing it wrong.

[Conquer or Die]

Don't get me wrong, I agree with what you're saying. But you can't discount neither the size of the (admittedly hilariously lame) juggalo culture, and the impact it has had on millions of reformed, former juggalos.
It is the crying out of a poor white kid with no dad living in a place way above his means and feeling disenfranchised and violent by what he sees. Like I said, just like Saw, if you're watching it for its politics (and there is some there) you're doing it wrong.

Just like Saw, it is ignorant of politics and horrifically lacking in art or base entertainment value.

Stop listening to ICP. Seriously.

[Pavlov's House Party]

Being out of contact with actual working class people leads a lot of leftists to this conclusion, especially academics, who by the very nature of their studies are isolated from workers and working life in general. From an academic's view looking at past failed revolutions, it's all the fault of those dumb, incompetent workers and not the prevailing conditions at the time simply because it seems like the simplest explanation. They then come up with weird utopian ideas of revolution that don't include the working class who they hold with disdain for failing the revolutions they want.

[Obs]

thats quite a baseless assumption, if for no other reason than i know how to fight military style.

you going to anime or messageboard imperialists to death? get real.
You're an army officer. Who the fuck are you to tell anyone how to beat the imperialists?

[bcbm]

oh okay. even revolutionaries should be working hard. not sitting around fretting on a message board. what are you doing today, comrade?

smoke some weed and drink some wine

[Revolution starts with U]

Just like Saw, it is ignorant of politics and horrifically lacking in art or base entertainment value.

Stop listening to ICP. Seriously
Leave it to a bou to think his lifestyle is a more valid one :laugh:
What should I listen to then? (Don't even answer, I'm sure I do. I value music for music, not for its style :D)

[Admiral Swagmeister G-Funk]

This is the lamest thread I've ever seen.

[Che a chara]

I must admit that after i logged out of revleft last night, i youtubed some ICP :blushing: Have to laugh at some of the lyrics though .... 'Halls of Illusion' and 'Chicken Hunting' brought back some memories. lol

Some of their lyrics probably do strike a cord with come people, but it's the whole 'juggalo culture' that repulses me. The music is for shock value. Cheap, nasty and trashy. It shouldn't really relate to everyday working class issues, but the violence portrayed might be used as some sort of release or therapy for some of the 'juggalos'.... i'm just trying to understand how, what and why the appeal is ....

[Revolution starts with U]

the appeal is if you're a young nerdy scrub with few friends and you feel disenfranchised, there's a movement of young nerdy scrubs that will take you in, treat you like shit, and call it "FAMILY! FAMILY! FAMILY!"
Fuggaloe's are fuckin weird, that I won't deny. But I found a lot of value when I was a young nerdy scrub trying to play the cool guy (i actually had a lot of friends, but in my heart I knew I was a nerdy scrub :D).
Suffice it to say, I've since grown out of that. But I value the lessons it taught me :thumbup1:

[this is an invasion]

Whatever. fuck yall. I like being lazy.

[Bud Struggle]

Whatever. fuck yall. I like being lazy. FINALLY and honest Communist.


:lol:

[this is an invasion]

http://www.marxists.org/archive/lafargue/1883/lazy/index.htm

: D

[Revolution starts with U]

So, you call Marx lazy? I'm going to tend to think he worked hard in his field. Really, it's not about lazy or not. Sure, some are. But the real point is personal values.
You're no better than anyone else, in the larger scope of things.

[Bud Struggle]

So, you call Marx lazy? I'm going to tend to think he worked hard in his field. Really, it's not about lazy or not. Sure, some are. But the real point is personal values.
You're no better than anyone else, in the larger scope of things.

I don't think anyone is taking this point seriously.

[La Comédie Noire]

So what have we learned here today? Capitalism is really bad at developing human beings to their full potential.

[Bud Struggle]

So what have we learned here today? Capitalism is really bad at developing human beings to their full potential.

And those undeveloped human beings are the revolutionaries of the future!

[Revolution starts with U]

I'm familiar with Mises' "Anti-capitalist Mentality" bud. I know what silly people think when they talk about socialists. It doesn't matter how succesful in your system a socialist is, they're just jealous of the guy above them. If Bill Gates were a socialist, it would be because he's jealous of God, right?

[Lt. Ferret]

You're an army officer. Who the fuck are you to tell anyone how to beat the imperialists?


i can beat other groups in military settings. you cannot. MY revolution would succeed. yours would lose. thinking my mere position in the military dictates my views is the reason that your revolution would never succeed.

[Revolution starts with U]

i can beat other groups in military settings. you cannot. MY revolution would succeed. yours would lose. thinking my mere position in the military dictates my views is the reason that your revolution would never succeed.
That's pretty presumptious to think we don't know how to shoot a gun, or would crap our pants if someone died around us because we didn't have some imperialist authoritarian system controlling us.
Are you familiar with any military theory (even if just Sun Tzu), other than what they tell grunts and lower officers? Could you be a general?
You're position in the military doesn't dictate your views, but it does dictate your actions. When the revolution comes, will you do your job, or will you take your guns to the other side?
So regardless if you think a people's revolution would fail, would you even join it? You've spent your whole life fighting against it.

[Dean]

i can beat other groups in military settings. you cannot. MY revolution would succeed. yours would lose. thinking my mere position in the military dictates my views is the reason that your revolution would never succeed.
"Me big man! You weak, no guns!" :laugh:

[Obs]

i can beat other groups in military settings. you cannot. MY revolution would succeed. yours would lose. thinking my mere position in the military dictates my views is the reason that your revolution would never succeed.
Yes, you and that legion of yellow socialists. Oh, wait.

[Bud Struggle]

Yes, you and that legion of yellow socialists. Oh, wait.

And Yellow Socialists are exactly what? Lt. Ferret sounds like a basic Capitalist to me?

[Coyote]

. . . As much as the good liberal inside all of us wants to sing a Fanfare for the Common Man while lecturing ourselves on the nobility and wisdom of the salt-of-the-earth types who populate this country, seeing them usually just makes me sad. If that means I am a terrible person, I am a terrible person. Toothless hillbillies in pro wrestling t-shirts. A pack of juggalo teenagers. Morbidly obese women in halter tops and jorts. Eighteen year old girls and their three children. Sullen, sunburned yokels slapping their children as other sullen, sunburned yokels look on, understanding the impulse and approving of the act. Baggy-panted black kids getting in fistfights. . . .

Source: Giantandtacos.com

I realize it says "liberal" and are thus considered part of the reactionaries among all of you, but he does have a valid point there. It seems like a proletariat victory requires an enormous amount of discipline, brainpower and a highly functioning future outlook on life.

Sad to say, many of the working class in the USA lacks those qualities. Thus, making communism an impossibility here.


This 1984-esque description of the proletariat reminds me of the rural area where I grew up and am still living. Sadly, this is somewhat accurate regarding what some of the people in that area are like. The fact is that they are victims of the situation forced upon them. There's very few job opportunities in rural areas. Few job opportunities = a weak working class and a higher number of lumpenproletariat.

[Lt. Ferret]

Yes, you and that legion of yellow socialists. Oh, wait.


yeah we are totally eclipsed by the legions of troskyskite maoist feminist fourth international third worldist vegans.





also, i havent "fought my whole life" for imperialism. iv been in the army for a year and am getting out on my third year.

sun tsu iis not a legitimate war theory book, unless you want to fight with spears.

go download some Army FM's off a torrent site or something and read up on it. not fucking tsun szu for gods sake.


i dont give a shit how good you think you are at Civilization 4 or Risk.

[RGacky3]

i can beat other groups in military settings. you cannot. MY revolution would succeed. yours would lose. thinking my mere position in the military dictates my views is the reason that your revolution would never succeed.

You don't know what a revolution is.

[Lt. Ferret]

you wouldnt know one if it bit you in the ass. trust me, if theres a socialist or communist revolution in this or any other western country you types will be purged really fuckin quickly.

[Revolution starts with U]

also, i havent "fought my whole life" for imperialism. iv been in the army for a year and am getting out on my third year.
Either way, you will have spent 3 years fighting for imperialism, and against the people. If the revolution were to happen tomorrow would you quit your job and face imprisonment, or would you keep your job and fight with the tyrants against the people?


sun tsu iis not a legitimate war theory book, unless you want to fight with spears.
Sun Tzu is still discussed in into to Military History, at least it was at my university. Your dismissal of him makes me think you have 1) never read it, 2) are not familiar with military theory.


go download some Army FM's off a torrent site or something and read up on it
How about the 33 Strategies of War, or A Woman at War; Storming Kuwait with USMC? I also have, but haven't read, To Lose a Battle; France 1940. All of these are required reading by upper officers in the USMC (which is where I got them from). Are these better?



i dont give a shit how good you think you are at Civilization 4 or Risk.[/QUOTE]
I'd stomp you at both ;)

I, unlike some of my compatriots here, friend, am not here to demonize you tho. I am just showing you that your views on us socialists is largely naive. If you think we're just a bunch of pot smoking hippies, you're massively mistaken.

[Dimentio]

. . . As much as the good liberal inside all of us wants to sing a Fanfare for the Common Man while lecturing ourselves on the nobility and wisdom of the salt-of-the-earth types who populate this country, seeing them usually just makes me sad. If that means I am a terrible person, I am a terrible person. Toothless hillbillies in pro wrestling t-shirts. A pack of juggalo teenagers. Morbidly obese women in halter tops and jorts. Eighteen year old girls and their three children. Sullen, sunburned yokels slapping their children as other sullen, sunburned yokels look on, understanding the impulse and approving of the act. Baggy-panted black kids getting in fistfights. . . .

Source: Giantandtacos.com

I realize it says "liberal" and are thus considered part of the reactionaries among all of you, but he does have a valid point there. It seems like a proletariat victory requires an enormous amount of discipline, brainpower and a highly functioning future outlook on life.

Sad to say, many of the working class in the USA lacks those qualities. Thus, making communism an impossibility here.

I would think the French population in the 1780's in general was less disciplined than the current US working class, and they managed to overthrow the aristocracy.

[Bud Struggle]

I would think the French population in the 1780's in general was less disciplined than the current US working class, and they managed to overthrow the aristocracy.

That probably is exactly the reason that the French could overthrow the aristocracy and the American worker can't manage a decent strike. :)

[RGacky3]

trust me, if theres a socialist or communist revolution in this or any other western country you types will be purged really fuckin quickly.

I guess for you revolution ONLY means guns and storming the barricades.

Revolution means changing the system, thats it, whatever method you use to get it.


That probably is exactly the reason that the French could overthrow the aristocracy and the American worker can't manage a decent strike. :)

Thats probably true, it says something about the American Capitalist, they have control systems that would give the USSR leaders a wet dream.

[Bud Struggle]

Thats probably true, it says something about the American Capitalist, they have control systems that would give the USSR leaders a wet dream.

The American Capitalist has all the control that the American worker allows him to have. :)

[Lt. Ferret]

actually its probably why the french people were rangled up to start killing the political opponenets of the leaders of the revolution, then it was taken over by a dictator who destroyed it.


sound familiar?

[RGacky3]

No, not really, thats like saying a slave owner has all the power the slaves allow him (because techinically they could all get together and kill him in his sleep).

[Bud Struggle]

No, not really, thats like saying a slave owner has all the power the slaves allow him (because techinically they could all get together and kill him in his sleep).

But the slaves don't have the freedom to aquire all the knowledge they want and need to revolt. We--you and I could find out and learn about anything we choose. We could go on the internet or a library and find out all of the ideas on property ownership or economics that are on the market--from the most exotic Communist organizations living in the wildest jungles to the Samuelson textbooks used in every economics classroom in America. All at our fingertips. We can communicate with each other. Revolutionaries around the world have Forums, and chatrooms and Twitter and Facebook to communicate Socialist ideals and to ignite the Proletariat.

For all of their evils--the Capitalists certainly give the Revolutionaries all the intellectual tools they need to succeed.

[Revolution starts with U]

Intellectuals never won sudden revolutions.

[Bud Struggle]

Intellectuals never won sudden revolutions.

I don't think they've ever won a Revolution. :(

[RGacky3]

For all of their evils--the Capitalists certainly give the Revolutionaries all the intellectual tools they need to succeed.

No they don't, the government gave it to them.


But the slaves don't have the freedom to aquire all the knowledge they want and need to revolt. We--you and I could find out and learn about anything we choose. We could go on the internet or a library and find out all of the ideas on property ownership or economics that are on the market--from the most exotic Communist organizations living in the wildest jungles to the Samuelson textbooks used in every economics classroom in America. All at our fingertips. We can communicate with each other. Revolutionaries around the world have Forums, and chatrooms and Twitter and Facebook to communicate Socialist ideals and to ignite the Proletariat.

No problem you have a voice, its alll good, but I got a mic :).

But either way, even WITH the information, what are you gonna do with it? Vote? For who? They did, but aparently money works better than votes.

[Bud Struggle]

No they don't, the government gave it to them.



No problem you have a voice, its alll good, but I got a mic :).

But either way, even WITH the information, what are you gonna do with it? Vote? For who? They did, but aparently money works better than votes.

What do you expect the Capitalists to do? They give you the information. They give you the communication tools. The give you the rights to congregate and speak freely. What do you want them to run the Revolution for you?

You have to at least show up for your own Revolution. :D

[Revolution starts with U]

I don't think they've ever won a Revolution. :(
Scientific revolution, industrial revolution, social-democracy (capitalism with a human face), ending segregation.. it's not like intellectuals never won anything.

[synthesis]

Actually, I think one could argue that historically, the early involvement of intellectuals has distinguished revolutions from riots, rebellions and insurrections.

[Revolution starts with U]

That's more reform tho, but ya. What is a revolution without at least a riot or two?

[Lt. Ferret]

probably one with a greater chance of success.

[Revolution starts with U]

English rebellion, american revolution, french, indian, soviet, mao...
WHat side do you have, MLK? (No offense, MLK is one of my top 5 heroes. I'm just sayin, that's the only peaceful revolution i can think of)

[Lt. Ferret]

the fall of the soviet union and the fall of the communist regimes in eastern europe. the various revolutions in post soviet regimes.

[Revolution starts with U]

granted.