Responding to more sexist bullshit

[Hexen]

I have long ago left a comment in this video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDFJ_BmdBHI) which based on "the Best non USian science fiction films" which what I have left on there is what I have noticed that the soviet film "Road to the Stars" depicts gender equality in the 1950s compared what was shown in the US.

This is my comment


Have you ever noticed that Soviet science fiction films like "Road to the Stars" during the 1950s are gender equal compared to the U.S. films at the time (which they usually depict females as damsels in distresses waiting to be saved by males)? Gets to show how sexist the U.S. really is compared to the Soviet Union.which for a long time I finally got a reply from it...which is this.


You need to distinguish "sexist". It isn't sexist per se. US films recognize that there are real differences between men and women. In the totalitarian then-Soviet world, all are exactly the same and are forced by government to be treated that way -- hence, the rampant alcoholism, suicides and depression over there. "Sexism" is about discriminating against someone because of their gender; it hasn't nothing to do with respecting them because of their gender.Is there a way to respond to this (like debunking the claims that "equality was forced in the Soviet Union which lead to depression/etc" and "US recognizes gender differences") or is this one of the reasons why youtube comments are such bullshit?

[RadioRaheem84]

You need to distinguish "sexist". It isn't sexist per se. US films recognize that there are real differences between men and women. In the totalitarian then-Soviet world, all are exactly the same and are forced by government to be treated that way -- hence, the rampant alcoholism, suicides and depression over there. "Sexism" is about discriminating against someone because of their gender; it hasn't nothing to do with respecting them because of their gender.

Show them a clip of Ronald Reagan slapping the hell out of a woman and making it look "cool".

Show them the radical difference in cartoons from the Soviet Union and the banned Looney Tunes ones.

US films recognized that there were certain "places" in US society for men and women. They didn't show real differences in gender. No one in the Soviet Union neglected biological differences, they rejected (at least in the films) patriarchy.

The guys also skips around by somehow by saying that when the government makes everyone equal it leads to alcoholism, suicides and depression? As if the US was somehow magical wonderland where there was no abuse of alcohol or depression.

Dude you're wasting your time debating with people on youtube.

[Hexen]

Yup, those people are a waste of time and not even worth responding to or let alone reasoning with since their simply products of their capitalist society.

Not to mention the person who made that quote also subscribed into a religious youtube channel which is the point I shouldn't take this person seriously.

[RadioRaheem84]

youtube has really become a haven for right wingers.

Heck the whole of the internet is infested with right wing stuff.

One would think that the world is turning right ward just by reading comments left on most websites. Either the right has nothing better to do than sit all night on a comp or IDK.

[GPDP]

youtube has really become a haven for right wingers.

Heck the whole of the internet is infested with right wing stuff.

One would think that the world is turning right ward just by reading comments left on most websites. Either the right has nothing better to do than sit all night on a comp or IDK.

There's also the fact that right-wing opinions are, by their very nature, quicker to grasp, easier to regurgitate, and more seductive if you consider yourself to be a part of whatever "elite" the ideology upholds. The right-wing is like the Dark Side in Star Wars. It requires little thought or intellectual fortitude to drop mindless assertions about how blacks are inferior or the poor have no one to blame but themselves.

[bcbm]

their simply products of their capitalist society.

so are you

[Hexen]

so are you

So is most everyone here...

I think was talking about the people who are influenced by society as it moves them as if their apart of the system's power although some (like us) can break free of it and look at society for what it really is while having a better solution.

[Tablo]

You could also point out that the alcoholism didn't reach such a serious point until after the fall of the Soviet Union in Russia.

[bcbm]

So is most everyone here...

I think was talking about the people who are influenced by society as it moves them as if their apart of the system's power although some (like us) can break free of it and look at society for what it really is while having a better solution.

i think "revolutionary" as a social role reproduces the dominance of capital just as much as "random youtube idiot"

[Hexen]

i think "revolutionary" as a social role reproduces the dominance of capital just as much as "random youtube idiot"

I think I was trying to explain things in a more Post-Structuralist perspective although I may have did a crappy job on it.

[bcbm]

i'm saying that i think its a bit optimistic to say that people "like us" have broken free and are less directed by the "systems power" than anybody else.

[Hexen]

i'm saying that i think its a bit optimistic to say that people "like us" have broken free and are less directed by the "systems power" than anybody else.

Even though we're still enslaved by the capitalist system however although we're just made aware of it (i.e. class consciousness).

[Luisrah]

There's also the fact that right-wing opinions are, by their very nature, quicker to grasp, easier to regurgitate, and more seductive if you consider yourself to be a part of whatever "elite" the ideology upholds. The right-wing is like the Dark Side in Star Wars. It requires little thought or intellectual fortitude to drop mindless assertions about how blacks are inferior or the poor have no one to blame but themselves.

Now that is a great explanation.

Far right-wing opinions are usually pretty much manicheistic (sp?), meaning, it's all black or white. It's, communists are bad, fascists/capitalists are the good guys.
A communist is always a bad person, evil, etc..., and the contrary is true to right-wingers. And usually fascist regime's type of education, is education by hitting your children if they do something wrong. Again the black and white.

These create no critical minds, but exactly the opposites. People that can't say why something is good or bad, but 'know' it's good or bad, similarly to the difference between faith and knowledge, one can be proved, and another can't.

And it is these exact mindless robots that carry out capitalism and fascism's orders.

[bcbm]

no elitism here

[KC]

LOL RevLefters are "class conscious" that's a good one

[9]

Show them a clip of Ronald Reagan slapping the hell out of a woman and making it look "cool".

And they could just as well cite Stalin's treatment of his wife. I don't think this sort of argument is particularly relevant either way, frankly.



Show them the radical difference in cartoons from the Soviet Union and the banned Looney Tunes ones.

US films recognized that there were certain "places" in US society for men and women. They didn't show real differences in gender. No one in the Soviet Union neglected biological differences, they rejected (at least in the films) patriarchy.I think the simple fact that the OP is attempting to defend the treatment of women under what was, by the fifties (which is the time period being discussed in the OP), a thoroughly bourgeois regime where women were legally prohibited from even accessing abortion and penalized by heavier taxes if they weren't married, says as much about the OP himself as it says about the guy on youtube he is arguing with. Although perhaps banning abortion is part of "[not] neglect[ing] biological differences". :rolleyes:



Dude you're wasting your time debating with people on youtube.On this point, we agree.





Originally Posted by Hexen
their simply products of their capitalist society.
so are you

yep.

[Red Commissar]

youtube has really become a haven for right wingers.

Heck the whole of the internet is infested with right wing stuff.

One would think that the world is turning right ward just by reading comments left on most websites. Either the right has nothing better to do than sit all night on a comp or IDK.

Lot of it has to do with work I think. Many of them might work in an office environment and use the internet when the boss isn't looking.

Anything with a comments box is open to this. It doesn't need much thought and is quick to do.

I really don't think youtube is the place for arguments, much less any thing through a comments section. It's stupid and chaotic.

If you insist on pursuing this, point out how movies in the 1950s America tended to portray women in subordinate roles, mostly as house wives, harlots, or femme fatales. Nothing really past that.

Even the most backwards thinking person can see that isn't a "real difference" between women or men. Hollywood like any other cultural institution reflects societies views, it's why movies from today are different from movies in the past.

[RadioRaheem84]

And they could just as well cite Stalin's treatment of his wife. I don't think this sort of argument is particularly relevant either way, frankly.

I think the simple fact that the OP is attempting to defend the treatment of women under what was, by the fifties (which is the time period being discussed in the OP), a thoroughly bourgeois regime where women were legally prohibited from even accessing abortion and penalized by heavier taxes if they weren't married, says as much about the OP himself as it says about the guy on youtube he is arguing with. Although perhaps banning abortion is part of "[not] neglect[ing] biological differences". :rolleyes:

On this point, we agree.



yep.


I think the point was in the difference in the ideals shown in films, not in real society, although films did reflect society in many ways.

Oh and the clip about about Ronald Reagan slapping a woman was in a film, not in real life. I was attempting to show that the Gipper made domestic violence look "cool" in a film.

[Bad Grrrl Agro]

The guys also skips around by somehow by saying that when the government makes everyone equal it leads to alcoholism, suicides and depression? As if the US was somehow magical wonderland where there was no abuse of alcohol or depression.
Being on anti-depressants is in style these days!:thumbup1:

[Invincible Summer]

What's with the need to try and defend every single aspect of any socialist (or, if you prefer, "socialist") society?


I think it is problematic to say that gender equality = treating women and men as the same. The fact is that there are biological differences and ignoring them is akin to ignoring the needs of marginalized ethnic groups. Being "colorblind" (or in this case, genderblind or whatever) can actually lead to greater inequality because the status quo is really just being upheld, with those straggling behind due to various reasons need to "keep up."

[Thirsty Crow]

What's with the need to try and defend every single aspect of any socialist (or, if you prefer, "socialist") society?

I really think a serious study of this phenomenon is needed.

[hatzel]

I really think a serious study of this phenomenon is needed.

I'd be very happy to help out in this study!

I guess it might be because the right wing opinions are...


...quicker to grasp, easier to regurgitate, and more seductive...

...and...


...require little thought or intellectual fortitudeOf course the left wing, with our difficult to grasp, difficult to regurgitate, non-seductive opinions which require a great deal of thought and intellectual fortitude, would always be right. I mean, it's all clever people! Marx was clever and Kropotkin was clever and Lenin was clever and Stalin was clever and Mao was clever and Pol Pot was clever and Che Guevara was clever, and we all know that clever people never do stupid things. Thus, anything said or done by any leftist should be defended, because it's of course correct and sensible, the product of a superior mind. The left has a monopoly on intelligence, don't you know? Nobody else gets any!

On the other hand, it might be because...


...far right-wing opinions are usually pretty much manicheistic (sp?), meaning, it's all black or white. It's, communists are bad, fascists/capitalists are the good guys.
A communist is always a bad person, evil, etc..., and the contrary is true to right-wingers.

We leftists, with the previously ascertained superior minds, are free from black-and-white ideas. Because all communists...oh yeah, all communists are good, all fascists / capitalists are bad, actually it's the same thing. But all fascists / capitalists are bad and evil, sure! Mussolini was bad and Churchill was bad and Hitler was bad and Martin Luther was bad and the Rothschilds were all bad and Bill Gates is bad and Tony Blair is bad, and, as we all know, though our non-black-and-white thinking, that anything suggested by anybody who's bad has absolutely no significance, importance or accuracy, surely we should make an effort to demonise every bad society, which can be done by glorifying every good society!

I guess the only question I have now is...what happens when a good, communist regime and a bad, capitalist regime accidentally do the same thing? You know, they might have a law in common, or some kind of system. I mean, what happens when a bad, capitalist country has trolleybuses, for instance? Oh no! The divine glory of the Soviet trolleybus, previously posited as the greatest transport solution known to man, has been soiled and tarnished by its usage in a non-communist society, exposing it as the stupid, pointless waste of space it really is, and always was, because no capitalist regime would ever support the usage of something good...but still the Soviets weren't wrong to use them, because they're great, they're just simultaneously terrible...



...forgive me, I'm having a laugh :thumbup1:

Seriously, though, I think this is an interesting point! It's good to forget Soviet genocides, food shortages and so on, and keep telling everybody why it's better than America ever was. Why exactly? What does this gain anybody? Are we...are we perhaps aiming to recreate the Soviet union? Yaaaaay, bring on the perfect, correct, communist genocides, as opposed to the evil, wrong, fascist ones...

[anticap]

Show them the radical difference in cartoons from the Soviet Union and the banned Looney Tunes ones.

Looney Tunes were banned in the USSR? That's it, that's the final nail in the ideological coffin for me. FUCK THE USSR! Watching Wile E. Coyote megafail to catch the Roadrunner, again and again and again, despite all the gadgetry he can summon from Acme, Inc., is one of the greatest joys of life.

Seriously though. Wow. :confused:

[HEAD ICE]

Looney Tunes were banned in the USSR? That's it, that's the final nail in the ideological coffin for me. FUCK THE USSR! Watching Wile E. Coyote megafail to catch the Roadrunner, again and again and again, despite all the gadgetry he can summon from Acme, Inc., is one of the greatest joys of life.

Seriously though. Wow. :confused:
I think s/he may have meant Looney Tunes cartoons that were banned in the USA.

[anticap]

I think s/he may have meant Looney Tunes cartoons that were banned in the USA.

Oh. Well in that case I can readily say "Fuck the USA!" without compunction.

[Hexen]

I think the simple fact that the OP is attempting to defend the treatment of women under what was, by the fifties (which is the time period being discussed in the OP), a thoroughly bourgeois regime where women were legally prohibited from even accessing abortion and penalized by heavier taxes if they weren't married, says as much about the OP himself as it says about the guy on youtube he is arguing with. Although perhaps banning abortion is part of "[not] neglect[ing] biological differences". :rolleyes:

I guess the Soviet Union was actually no better than the U.S. in regards in the treatment of women especially during the 1950s although I was originally trying to point out that the films in the U.S. and USSR reflected different ideals of society and I never said I supported the Soviet Union's policies (which I actually didn't know women were legally prohibited from accessing abortion and penalized by heavier taxes if they weren't married in the USSR until I read your post since I actually do support the right of women getting abortions regardless who they are) although I always knew that the Soviet Union was State Capitalist hence a bourgeoisie state like you said.