Another flaw in Capitalist thinking

[Weezer]

"Communism can't work! Human nature makes people too lazy and selfish!"

"If you want to be successful in capitalism, work hard like Bill Gates did! Everyone can work hard!"

[Revolution starts with U]

I know. I am just far to lazy to work hard at recieving my father's inheritance like most rich people. I am also too lazy to forgo my ethics and exploit markets, governments, and labor for personal gain.
Arrgh, if only I was more motivated.... :laugh:

[Nuvem]

Never thought of this before. That is a HUGE hole in their logic. But then I pretty much tell them to put the "human nature" card back in the deck and tell them that the argument is void and that human nature determines very little other than our need to eat, drink, sleep, pass waste, reproduce and generally survive, citing examples of the "wild child" phenomenon. Just look at people who have grown with no human contact...I don't think human nature quite determines whether they will work for profit or progress, they don't have opinions or greater goals. Take away the social element and people are just stuck in physiological stages of development. Blows the whole human nature argument out of the water- or at least it would, if most capitalists weren't theists.

[LOLseph Stalin]

Well if people do work hard they can make money. Not everybody is going to have things handed to them like the left seems to promote.

[Jazzratt]

Well if people do work hard they can make money. Not everybody is going to have things handed to them like the left seems to promote. This argument is embarassing enough when it comes from your average right winger but when you were a leftist before you must surely realise that all you're doing is making a very large man out of straw and knocking it down? Not just that but if you look at people in the world who genuinely work hard you'll notice that they do not, in fact, make much money. You're talking nothing but cobblers and you should be ashamed that this feeble wank is the best you can come out with, seriously.

[LOLseph Stalin]

This argument is embarassing enough when it comes from your average right winger but when you were a leftist before you must surely realise that all you're doing is making a very large man out of straw and knocking it down? Not just that but if you look at people in the world who genuinely work hard you'll notice that they do not, in fact, make much money. You're talking nothing but cobblers and you should be ashamed that this feeble wank is the best you can come out with, seriously.

Well it's really not hard to make money. If you have a special skill you can just use that to your advantage and sell your product. If you have a low paying job you can easily do that to obtain any extra money.

[Ele'ill]

Well if people do work hard they can make money. Not everybody is going to have things handed to them like the left seems to promote.


Wait a couple years- once you get your first job you'll understand how dire the current situation is.

Your understanding of this will begin when you can't work hard even when you are very willing to. This is because a lot of businesses- I'll say most of the businesses that are hiring entry level positions- are not hireing full time positions.

So you get a part time position- part time wage- part time benefits and you'll think you're lucky when they bump you up to full time hours.

You're making enough to survive but you have to watch your hours- and it's a constant battle with your employer because if you go over the alloted amount of money per month your social services get reevaluated or cancelled- it could be trading $100 more in your paycheck for $200 in food stamps-

How about the idea of hard work and a helping hand?

[LOLseph Stalin]

Wait a couple years- once you get your first job you'll understand how dire the current situation is.

Your understanding of this will begin when you can't work hard even when you are very willing to. This is because a lot of businesses- I'll say most of the businesses that are hiring entry level positions- are not hireing full time positions.

So you get a part time position- part time wage- part time benefits and you'll think you're lucky when they bump you up to full time hours.

You're making enough to survive but you have to watch your hours- and it's a constant battle with your employer because if you go over the alloted amount of money per month your social services get reevaluated or cancelled- it could be trading $100 more in your paycheck for $200 in food stamps-

How about the idea of hard work and a helping hand?

I have had jobs- in fact, I have been unemployed for two years so I know how things are like. However, stealing from the rich(who mostly earn their own money) to give to the poor won't solve anybody's problems. It'll solve the problem of the poor being poor, but what about everybody else? I just don't feel this whole redistribution of wealth thing is really justified.

[Ele'ill]

Well it's really not hard to make money. If you have a special skill you can just use that to your advantage and sell your product. If you have a low paying job you can easily do that to obtain any extra money.

This is pretty laughable. Where did you learn these special skills? How much did they cost? How long did it take?

Give some examples of special skills-

If it's not hard to make money- why are so many people living in poverty- and why are so many people around the globe starving to death?

[Ele'ill]

I have had jobs- in fact, I have been unemployed for two years so I know how things are like. However, stealing from the rich(who mostly earn their own money) to give to the poor won't solve anybody's problems. It'll solve the problem of the poor being poor, but what about everybody else? I just don't feel this whole redistribution of wealth thing is really justified.


I think you're mixing liberal reform with leftist ideology and this is the reason you disagree with it.

[#FF0000]

Well it's really not hard to make money. If you have a special skill you can just use that to your advantage and sell your product. If you have a low paying job you can easily do that to obtain any extra money.

That is because you have the fortune to live in a stable first world country.


Well if people do work hard they can make money. Not everybody is going to have things handed to them like the left seems to promote.

Honestly you should know better than this. What is wrong with you?

[Bud Struggle]

Wait a couple years- once you get your first job you'll understand how dire the current situation is.

Your understanding of this will begin when you can't work hard even when you are very willing to. This is because a lot of businesses- I'll say most of the businesses that are hiring entry level positions- are not hireing full time positions.

So you get a part time position- part time wage- part time benefits and you'll think you're lucky when they bump you up to full time hours.

You're making enough to survive but you have to watch your hours- and it's a constant battle with your employer because if you go over the alloted amount of money per month your social services get reevaluated or cancelled- it could be trading $100 more in your paycheck for $200 in food stamps-

How about the idea of hard work and a helping hand?

I see that and I believe that. And it is all true. And that is certainly part of the story. But then I see some 16 yo girl making $100 an hour playing the violin and I see some kid I know at 20 with a start up company making acne cream and another one selling pipes (tobacco) on the internet making beaucoup bucks. Then there are the kids that work at Wendys for $7.25 an hour. And they really work.

There is plenty of money in this world and there is no money. It's not about working--it's about doing something marketable.

[Revolution starts with U]

However, stealing from the rich(who mostly earn their own money)

FIRST; prove to me that most rich people are the legitimate owners of the property they use, and ergo redistribution is "stealing"
SECOND; prove that most rich people "earned" their own money without an inheritance, nor benefactor

Good Luck ;)

[Left-Reasoning]

the rich(who mostly earn their own money)

hahahahahahaha!

[Dean]

Well it's really not hard to make money. If you have a special skill you can just use that to your advantage and sell your product. If you have a low paying job you can easily do that to obtain any extra money.
Folk art is a notoriously weak model for the accumulation of funds. You might as well just get another job in that case.

And the historical manifestation of mankind - that is, the net value for the working class - has consistently been a lack of the "easy money" you allude to.

I suggest if you have some laying around you wire it to me and anyone else who doesn't seem to have that same luxury.

[Volcanicity]

I see that and I believe that. And it is all true. And that is certainly part of the story. But then I see some 16 yo girl making $100 an hour playing the violin and I see some kid I know at 20 with a start up company making acne cream and another one selling pipes (tobacco) on the internet making beaucoup bucks. Then there are the kids that work at Wendys for $7.25 an hour. And they really work.

There is plenty of money in this world and there is no money. It's not about working--it's about doing something marketable.
But how much does a violin and violin lessons cost?and how much does the cream,packaging and marketing cost?They are only marketable because they have the finance backing them.

[Lt. Ferret]

well the guy working at Wendy's needs to save a portion of his money and then he can buy the stuff he needs to make Acne cream.

My wife went from homeless to owning her own photography business and she did it by saving her money and buying things a little piece at a time. she used to work at a grocery store and slept in a car in the parking lot. now she makes $60 bucks an hour for studio photography.

she surely doesn't owe anyone else anything.

[anticap]

well the guy working at Wendy's needs to save a portion of his money and then he can buy the stuff he needs to make Acne cream.

This generous advice rests on the false premise that 'anyone can make it if they work hard enough.'

Moreover, even if we did live under a system where hard work always paid off there would still be burgers to flip and toilets to clean. So, anyone making such an argument needs to explain how they would determine who does those jobs. (It will ultimately boil down to an endorsement of systems where success is a gamble, thereby undermining their own argument.)

[Revolution starts with U]

well the guy working at Wendy's needs to save a portion of his money and then he can buy the stuff he needs to make Acne cream.

My wife went from homeless to owning her own photography business and she did it by saving her money and buying things a little piece at a time. she used to work at a grocery store and slept in a car in the parking lot. now she makes $60 bucks an hour for studio photography.

she surely doesn't owe anyone else anything.

Nobody gave her a break? DId she get a loan? WHo filled the gas of the car she slept in? Didn't someone give her a job at that grocery store? Was she educated?
Take your "i don't owe anyone anything" bourgousie mumbo-jumbo elsewhere. If you're a part of the division of labor, you owe a debt to society.

[Ele'ill]

I see that and I believe that. And it is all true. And that is certainly part of the story. But then I see some 16 yo girl making $100 an hour playing the violin

We've been through this before- how much is the violin? How much are lessons? If both are free how much time did she have to practice to get good enough to make that kind of money? Were her parents in a position of privilege so she didn't have to work after school to help with home funds so instead she got to practice the violin? etc...






and I see some kid I know at 20 with a start up company making acne cream and another one selling pipes (tobacco) on the internet making beaucoup bucks. Then there are the kids that work at Wendys for $7.25 an hour. And they really work.

The only difference I see here is privilege vs non-privilege- the work ethic is perhaps the same- why is one goup living below the povery line and the other is making massive amounts of money-

The violin girl opens her shop and employs 7.25 an hour people as does the Acne Cream person.

That isn't fair. It's privileged positions making massive profits off the labor of those non-privileged.


There is plenty of money in this world and there is no money. It's not about working--it's about doing something marketable.

It isn't about ideas. It's about money and it's about time- it takes privilege to earn privilege.

[Ele'ill]

well the guy working at Wendy's needs to save a portion of his money and then he can buy the stuff he needs to make Acne cream.

Save a portion of his money? At 7.25 an hour? :laugh::laugh::laugh:

You realize that comments like these look foolish to any member of the working poor that reads it.



My wife went from homeless to owning her own photography business and she did it by saving her money and buying things a little piece at a time. she used to work at a grocery store and slept in a car in the parking lot. now she makes $60 bucks an hour for studio photography.

I call bullshit.

I did that too- it lasted two weeks- every city in america has a municipal code prohibitting individuals from sleeping in their vehicles. I've been questioned at 2am and I've been cited. It's illegal- and is not an option.

I've also squatted extensively- it's also illegal.



Even more importantly :laugh::laugh: let's talk about what youre suggesting the average person do in order to make a living and be able to live at the most basic level. You're asking them to go homeless (and I would hardly consider what your 'wife' did 'going homeless.') That's not how things work in a functioning society- fuck that.




she surely doesn't owe anyone else anything.

Good thing she could afford car insurance and not once had police come up on her in the middle of the night. :rolleyes:

[RGacky3]

But then I see some 16 yo girl making $100 an hour playing the violin and I see some kid I know at 20 with a start up company making acne cream and another one selling pipes (tobacco) on the internet making beaucoup bucks.

Then there are guys playing the violin on the street, becaust they still believe in the system, then there are people selling pipes online, still, their parents tell them to move out, but no mom its gonna work.

[Lt. Ferret]

Save a portion of his money? At 7.25 an hour? :laugh::laugh::laugh:

You realize that comments like these look foolish to any member of the working poor that reads it.




I call bullshit.

I did that too- it lasted two weeks- every city in america has a municipal code prohibitting individuals from sleeping in their vehicles. I've been questioned at 2am and I've been cited. It's illegal- and is not an option.

I've also squatted extensively- it's also illegal.



Even more importantly :laugh::laugh: let's talk about what youre suggesting the average person do in order to make a living and be able to live at the most basic level. You're asking them to go homeless (and I would hardly consider what your 'wife' did 'going homeless.') That's not how things work in a functioning society- fuck that.





Good thing she could afford car insurance and not once had police come up on her in the middle of the night. :rolleyes:


haha, you cannot function in society and its my fault? or anyone elses? every job i ever had besides this one was either minimum wage or tips. i survived.

i sleep in my car all the time. my wife slept in the car for 2 weeks when we were moving to georgia and i was stuck in some god awful barracks being processed.



what im suggesting, is that if you make minimum wage you need to 1. learn a skill so you can earn more, and 2. pool your resources with other people and live in an apartment or house together. i lived with 4 people in an apartment together, we made it work.


im really not concerned with how you view my wife. i've seen how people with skills and intelligence can embrace upward mobility. and i've seen how parasites with no skills and no desire to better themselves will cook fries for a living and honest to god think that the rich stole stomething from them, when they have nothing to offer the world.

you're the other side of the same coin of conservatives who will ***** about "liberal elites" with their college education or white collar jobs or desire to eat nutritious food.

if you can't save a portion of your pay you are an idiot.

[Revolution starts with U]

haha, you cannot function in society and its my fault? or anyone elses? every job i ever had besides this one was either minimum wage or tips. i survived.
Ad hominem. And besides, I function quite well and am self-employed, well enough I was able to buy a new Cobalt when they came off the line to support my local workers (I live >3miles from the factory).


i sleep in my car all the time. my wife slept in the car for 2 weeks when we were moving to georgia and i was stuck in some god awful barracks being processed.
Permit me to throw in my ad hominem for a second; what do I care what you think imperialist?



what im suggesting, is that if you make minimum wage you need to 1. learn a skill so you can earn more
WHat if the only skill you care about is having fun with your friends/family?



, and 2. pool your resources with other people and live in an apartment or house together. i lived with 4 people in an apartment together, we made it work.

Yes, sharing a domicile is a much cheaper way to live. Does that make it right that people have to?


im really not concerned with how you view my wife.
Then don't bring her up, Sarah Palin.

i've seen how people with skills and intelligence can embrace upward mobility.
You're looking at one.

and i've seen how parasites with no skills and no desire to better themselves will cook fries for a living and honest to god think that the rich stole stomething from them, when they have nothing to offer the world.
My cousin would be one of those "parasites" you speak of, with no motivation. His grandmother was also a full-blood cherokee. So, yes, the rich did steal something from him, all of us americans did.
Second, who is the bigger parasite; the unmotivated poor guy, barely scraping by, and can't even get food stamps cuz he's not a single mother. Or the son of the rich man who inherited his father's fortune and lives off its investments, living the life of luxury, all the while screaming that the poor want to "steal his hard-earned income?"



if you can't save a portion of your pay you are an idiot.
[/QUOTE]
Or, you just have a low time-preference.
(Also, just to let you know, you didn't [i assume] have kids while your wife was going through all that. Get over yourself, bourge apologist.

[Ele'ill]

haha, you cannot function in society and its my fault? or anyone elses? every job i ever had besides this one was either minimum wage or tips. i survived.


I don't believe you- I'm sorry.

I've been involved with either helping people or helping myself in situations such as we're talking about and you don't 'survive' on minimum wage. The first external event that occurs you become destitute. The evidence suggesting being able to manage such events on minimum wage is non-existent. The first vehicle repair or medical emergency can end lives.

Without a saftey net of privileged family members you will end up on the recieving end of misery thanks to a failing capitalist system.




i sleep in my car all the time. my wife slept in the car for 2 weeks when we were moving to georgia and i was stuck in some god awful barracks being processed.

Then you can attribute it to chance that you did not get harassed by the police. I simply do not believe you.




what im suggesting, is that if you make minimum wage you need to 1. learn a skill so you can earn more, and 2. pool your resources with other people and live in an apartment or house together. i lived with 4 people in an apartment together, we made it work.

Learning costs money- requires time. Not possible unless you're coming from a position of privilege- which you obviously are.


So basically the idea of a human created society is to have it serve the sole purpose of being the antagonist in everybody's lives- that frequently makes you run the risk of 'going homeless' or dying. I'm sorry- a better world can be built. :rolleyes:






im really not concerned with how you view my wife. i've seen how people with skills and intelligence can embrace upward mobility. and i've seen how parasites with no skills and no desire to better themselves will cook fries for a living and honest to god think that the rich stole stomething from them, when they have nothing to offer the world.

Your posts come from a gross misunderstanding of how the real world operates- my advice to you is to volunteer at a community center, shelter, or crisis intervention center. I think you'll learn a lot. You might even find that the people working there are impoverished themselves. Oh, functioning society!




you're the other side of the same coin of conservatives who will ***** about "liberal elites" with their college education or white collar jobs or desire to eat nutritious food.

if you can't save a portion of your pay you are an idiot.

I think that all or some of the following are true about you:

-You have not moved out of your parents house yet
-You come from a rich family
-You have never even looked at a personal budget because it simply doesn't apply to you


I don't take your posts in this thread seriously because they are the polar opposites of what's been proven fact in what we know as the real world.

Thank your mom the next time you go up stairs because you're a very lucky person. :thumbup1:

[Dean]

I don't believe you- I'm sorry.

I've been involved with either helping people or helping myself in situations such as we're talking about and you don't 'survive' on minimum wage. The first external event that occurs you become destitute. The evidence suggesting being able to manage such events on minimum wage is non-existent. The first vehicle repair or medical emergency can end lives.

Without a saftey net of privileged family members you will end up on the recieving end of misery thanks to a failing capitalist system.

Duh! He should invest his money in the stock market, not purchase food, shelter and toiletries for his family. I can't believe you don't see the obvious solution!

[Lt. Ferret]

I don't believe you- I'm sorry.

I've been involved with either helping people or helping myself in situations such as we're talking about and you don't 'survive' on minimum wage. The first external event that occurs you become destitute. The evidence suggesting being able to manage such events on minimum wage is non-existent. The first vehicle repair or medical emergency can end lives.

Without a saftey net of privileged family members you will end up on the recieving end of misery thanks to a failing capitalist system.





Then you can attribute it to chance that you did not get harassed by the police. I simply do not believe you.





Learning costs money- requires time. Not possible unless you're coming from a position of privilege- which you obviously are.


So basically the idea of a human created society is to have it serve the sole purpose of being the antagonist in everybody's lives- that frequently makes you run the risk of 'going homeless' or dying. I'm sorry- a better world can be built. :rolleyes:







Your posts come from a gross misunderstanding of how the real world operates- my advice to you is to volunteer at a community center, shelter, or crisis intervention center. I think you'll learn a lot. You might even find that the people working there are impoverished themselves. Oh, functioning society!





I think that all or some of the following are true about you:

-You have not moved out of your parents house yet
-You come from a rich family
-You have never even looked at a personal budget because it simply doesn't apply to you


I don't take your posts in this thread seriously because they are the polar opposites of what's been proven fact in what we know as the real world.

Thank your mom the next time you go up stairs because you're a very lucky person. :thumbup1:


are you absolutely shitting me?



im 23. im an army officer. i put myself through college entirely. i grew up in a trailer in east texas. my mother has no highschool education, she was an army brat and ran away from home at 17, and never did anything to acquire any wealth. my stepfather is a manual worker who last i talked to, was drilling water wells in texas. they still live in the mobile home i grew up in.

as for minimum wage or tip jobs i've worked in a pizza parlor, as a barback in a sports bar, i've sold fireworks twice, i've worked at a bookstore, a political phone survey call center, and at various points we were so broke that me and my roomates stole the iron from various abandoned railroads and sold it as scrap. me and my wife at one point were making home made wine and selling it to squatter punks.


im well aware of poverty. iim well aware of not having walking around money. to say its impossible is a slap i nthe face of everyone who is undergoing it right now and obviously not starving to death.


i've spent a lot of time working at animal shelters, and with various co-ops and stores that help the poor. my mom spends most of her free time at a little christian store that is also a food bank for the poor, and im not a christian at all but i have spent a lot of time there, i have spent many thanksgivings in the homes of those who have nobody else, serving them turkey. i have given children toys at christmas when they could not afford them.


just becuase you are some spoiled idiot manchild who has no real understanding of how the world works besides Das Kapital or some youtube videos on what stalinism kicked ass, does not mean everyone else is. im gathering im a couple years older than you, and i got an education while you masturbated on the internet to porno and *****ed at why the system wasn't letting you get ahead.


PS. learning does cost time, not always money. unless you are working 24 housr a day for all time, which is physically impossible, you have time to learn a skill. if oyu save up your money, you will have money. sorry life is inconvenient when you are dealt a bad hand by birth or choice, and maybe a society can be created thats better, but its certainly not imposible as long as you are not a complete and utter waste of humanity.

[Dean]

im 23. im an army officer. i put myself through college entirely. i grew up in a trailer in east texas. my mother has no highschool education, she was an army brat and ran away from home at 17, and never did anything to acquire any wealth. my stepfather is a manual worker who last i talked to, was drilling water wells in texas. they still live in the mobile home i grew up in.
2 Failure rates for your one success rate. Also, you didn't put yourself through college "yourself" since you payed for it with wages, or the military or some other organization helped you.

[Lt. Ferret]

2 Failure rates for your one success rate. Also, you didn't put yourself through college "yourself" since you payed for it with wages, or the military or some other organization helped you.


i paid for it with wages that i got through my own labor. if youre going to be so abstract, then nobody pays for anything.


i dont see any failures in anything i've said, i've seen you attempt and fail miserably at being smug or condescending.

[#FF0000]

If everybody tried twice as hard in school and at work and learned a lot of useful and marketable skills, there would still be poor fry cooks because capitalism needs poor fry cooks.

So.

[Lt. Ferret]

perhaps poor in comparison to others but there would be a lot more material wealth even at the bottom tier.

[Dean]

i paid for it with wages that i got through my own labor. if youre going to be so abstract, then nobody pays for anything.
You have only been able to go to college because of wages paid - voluntarily - by other organizations. If it weren't for them, you'd have no college education.


i dont see any failures in anything i've said, i've seen you attempt and fail miserably at being smug or condescending.
Both your parents are failures.

[#FF0000]

perhaps poor in comparison to others but there would be a lot more material wealth even at the bottom tier.

Why do you think this? Being more marketable doesn't necessarily mean you'll be paid more at a fast food job, and being more marketable doesn't mean anyone's going to raise the minimum wage.

[Dean]

perhaps poor in comparison to others but there would be a lot more material wealth even at the bottom tier.

Not sure why you think capitalist business models would change just because people get a better education. Sounds like more silly idealism to me: the poor is always at fault for their condition. Right?

[Lt. Ferret]

You have only been able to go to college because of wages paid - voluntarily - by other organizations. If it weren't for them, you'd have no college education.


Both your parents are failures.


both my parents are proletarians.


wages were paid voluntarily by organizations because they recieved labor i volunteered to give. we both got something out of it.

im not sure how on earth that the "only" reason i got an education is because i worked for it, how that is a bad thing?


also in a purely capitalist theory market, if people got more educated, less of them would be willing to work as a fryer at a fast food restaurant. with less labor available for that job, more would have to be paid to get someone to work it.

[Bud Struggle]

If everybody tried twice as hard in school and at work and learned a lot of useful and marketable skills, there would still be poor fry cooks because capitalism needs poor fry cooks.

And Communists don't eat? ;)

[Dean]

both my parents are proletarians.


wages were paid voluntarily by organizations because they recieved labor i volunteered to give. we both got something out of it.

im not sure how on earth that the "only" reason i got an education is because i worked for it, how that is a bad thing?

It's because someone paid you and you used that money for it. And the college had the grace to offer you an education. Why do you deserve any praise?


also in a purely capitalist theory market, if people got more educated, less of them would be willing to work as a fryer at a fast food restaurant. with less labor available for that job, more would have to be paid to get someone to work it.
Well in a 'purely real theory market,' businesses have this curious effect of telling laborers what they are going to get paid or to hit the highway.

[Revolution starts with U]

There are no colleges to go to if there wasn't a division of labor and spreading of costs. Since you are apart of said division of labor and spreading of costs, the idea of you doing something within said division of labor and spreading of costs "on your own" is absolutely ridiculous.
I'm sure you didn't; till, grow, harvest, clean, cook your own food, make your own coffee/beer/soda, dispose of your own waste, write, print, publish, market the books you used in college, etc, etc etc ad infinitum.
There is no "did it myself" in human societies. We are not orangutans.


sorry life is inconvenient when you are dealt a bad hand by birth or choice, and maybe a society can be created thats better, but its certainly not imposible as long as you are not a complete and utter waste of humanity

Well YWHW, what gives you the authority to judge what is a "waste of humanity?"

[#FF0000]

And Communists don't eat? ;)

We photosynthesize.

Every red heart turns towards the Glorious Red Sun!

[Ele'ill]

are you absolutely shitting me?

No.




im 23. im an army officer. i put myself through college entirely.Honest question here- did you 'put yourself through entirely' or did the Army pay for your education. (I have not viewed posts in this thread past this one)



i grew up in a trailer in east texas. my mother has no highschool education, she was an army brat and ran away from home at 17, and never did anything to acquire any wealth. my stepfather is a manual worker who last i talked to, was drilling water wells in texas. they still live in the mobile home i grew up in.How does this apply to what's being discussed between you and I?




as for minimum wage or tip jobs i've worked in a pizza parlor, as a barback in a sports bar, i've sold fireworks twice, i've worked at a bookstore, a political phone survey call center, and at various points we were so broke that me and my roomates stole the iron from various abandoned railroads and sold it as scrap. Sounds like you're living in a failing system. One that requires illegal activity to get by.


me and my wife at one point were making home made wine and selling it to squatter punks.Thanks! :thumbup1:



im well aware of poverty. iim well aware of not having walking around money. to say its impossible is a slap i nthe face of everyone who is undergoing it right now and obviously not starving to death.Not starving to death is a horrible barometer for a functioning society. There are many bad things that happen because of capitalism that pretty much make people into the walking dead.



i've spent a lot of time working at animal shelters, and with various co-ops and stores that help the poor. my mom spends most of her free time at a little christian store that is also a food bank for the poor, and im not a christian at all but i have spent a lot of time there, i have spent many thanksgivings in the homes of those who have nobody else, serving them turkey. i have given children toys at christmas when they could not afford them.The tone in the above portion of your post pretty much sounds like you're discontented with the current system.

So what's your problem? Are you just here to troll? do you advocate a system that has failed you and your wife- sent your wife to her car to live in order to achieve a basic level of healthy existence in the world she was born into?

You should be organizing against this system- not prostituting yourself to its maladies.

Oh no wait, it gets better.



just becuase you are some spoiled idiot manchild who has no real understanding of how the world works besides Das Kapital or some youtube videos on what stalinism kicked ass,I've never read or done any of that. I'm not a manchild and I'm certainly not spoiled.



does not mean everyone else is. im gathering im a couple years older than you, and i got an education while you masturbated on the internet to porno and *****ed at why the system wasn't letting you get ahead.

I'm in my late twenties- early thirties. Say- between the age of 25 and 31. Not that this has anything to do with things. Do you base justice or justification on age? That's pretty immature.

I'm deeply moved that my comments about you were accurate enough to strike such a chord.

My original stance still stands as such-



http://gamingbolt.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/middle_finger.jpg




PS. learning does cost time, not always money. unless you are working 24 housr a day for all time, which is physically impossible, you have time to learn a skill. if oyu save up your money, you will have money. sorry life is inconvenient when you are dealt a bad hand by birth or choice, and maybe a society can be created thats better, but its certainly not imposible as long as you are not a complete and utter waste of humanity.Learning does cost money. It takes time too. Are there success stories? Yes- we hear about them and not about the millions in poverty because it is such a fucking surprise that someone made it out alive.

Should we base a system on a handful of people making it out of an impoverished state or out of the majority being able to live?

The fact is- the current system needs poverty in order to function- that's a crime.

[#FF0000]

The fact is- the current system needs poverty in order to function

The fact is- the current system needs poverty in order to function

The fact is- the current system needs poverty in order to function

The fact is- the current system needs poverty in order to function

The fact is- the current system needs poverty in order to function

This is the entire point.

[mykittyhasaboner]

im an army officer.

Oh, so you're a piece of shit?



i put myself through college entirely. i grew up in a trailer in east texas. my mother has no highschool education, she was an army brat and ran away from home at 17, and never did anything to acquire any wealth. my stepfather is a manual worker who last i talked to, was drilling water wells in texas. they still live in the mobile home i grew up in.

as for minimum wage or tip jobs i've worked in a pizza parlor, as a barback in a sports bar, i've sold fireworks twice, i've worked at a bookstore, a political phone survey call center, and at various points we were so broke that me and my roomates stole the iron from various abandoned railroads and sold it as scrap. me and my wife at one point were making home made wine and selling it to squatter punks.


im well aware of poverty. iim well aware of not having walking around money. to say its impossible is a slap i nthe face of everyone who is undergoing it right now and obviously not starving to death.


i've spent a lot of time working at animal shelters, and with various co-ops and stores that help the poor. my mom spends most of her free time at a little christian store that is also a food bank for the poor, and im not a christian at all but i have spent a lot of time there, i have spent many thanksgivings in the homes of those who have nobody else, serving them turkey. i have given children toys at christmas when they could not afford them. Is this some kind of sob story? It sounds like capitalism sucks.



just becuase you are some spoiled idiot manchild who has no real understanding of how the world works besides Das KapitalThat wouldn't be a bad place to start on "how the world works".




if oyu save up your money, you will have money. sorry life is inconvenient when you are dealt a bad hand by birth or choice, and maybe a society can be created thats better, but its certainly not imposible as long as you are not a complete and utter waste of humanity.Define "complete and utter waste of humanity". I mean, I would call an apologist for poverty, exploitation and wealth inequality; or a willing participant in imperialist military conflict a complete and utter waste of humanity.