The leering menace of Fascism

[MarxistResist]

Since the mighty rise of Communism against the oppression of the bourgeoisie, who, on no reasonable basis ignored all reasonable demands of the proletarians, they [the fascists] have been predisposing of the theory that Communism itself was a Jewish conspiracy to financially enslave Europe using the working-classes as an economic battering-ram to gain control of the national economy and internationalise capital; but, for years we have mightily opposed these "unterschmenten" to use one of their own terms, and in the the events after the First World War indirectly, and directly in WWII, we have flawed their arguments, but against reasonable sentiment and logistics of we of a sturdier prerequisite, they shout and cry afoul "CONSPIRACY!": even today we fight for everything under which we may designate as "democracy", and now the menace of Fascism and ethnocentrism is rearing its ugly head once again! It is not enough that they are ultimately intolerant of all others, but these louts now dare attack the authenticity of the atrocities of WWII, namely, the final solution, the holocaust! Whenever I read or hear one of these sub-humans speak, I rise in high moral indignation! Especially considering, Fascism is again leering on the brink once more! It is time, for us, to quash it, once more! The threat is now becoming evident, as the right-wingers are increasing, statistically that is, and in my own area, I have felt the effects in my own skin, as being known to be half-Jewish from my father's side, by the British Resistance Movement; and this is in Surrey, and London, and the effect of this peculiar group is being felt; they have organised their own storm battalions, to defend meetings and fight the left-wing! I am often the victim of abuse, and it is affecting the safety of my own family and friends in the Jewish social circle! Not to mention, the AnUk, which, thankfully seems to be dwindling along with the BNP, threatening the peace of Britain; not to mention other European nations such as Russia, resoundingly slapped in the face by the NSO, etc! This is my call to arms for all willing to lend an ear, combat these groups in whatever means possible! Get the word out!

Here is the site of the BRM, and I am sure for a good number of you it will make you feel sick to your stomach at the ultimate animosity to the Britain of today..
BRMovement.wordpress.com

:mad: Stop Racism NOW!
OFF OUR STREETS, NAZI SCUM!

[Antifa94]

Other than being boring, this should be moved to ANTIFASCISM.

[AK]

Wow. These fash lack the creativity to use an original logo.
http://brmovement.files.wordpress.com/2010/08/brm.jpg
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_A_k9TcqvFM0/RzF1an8O1AI/AAAAAAAAA8Y/hGfBYDM0-hs/s400/British_National_Party_Logo.png

[Obzervi]

I understand that the Holocaust was a major crime against humanity, but sometimes I'm annoyed by how people think there was only one holocaust in history. Nearly a hundred million Native Americans were wiped out by European conquerors, yet they get nowhere near the recognition the 6 million Jews of WWII get. African Americans can also be said to have had a holocaust committed against them.

[Sasha]

i think you are confused with the word genocide, and even thats debatable since that requires an intentional act instead of just not giving an damn.

in no way was the destruction of native culture and life an planned industralised act brought through an cordinated effort in an very short span of time.

and while we are of topic please soucre your "nearly an hunderd million" claim, most scholars put it somewhere between 1.8 to 10 million and thats almost all from smallpox and measles. while very unfortunate, europeans also didnt have any effective medecine against those disseases at the time. The amount of natives killed through somewhat intentional acts (war, starvation etc) wont make it near the million.

So yeah, there where genocidal aspects, espacily in the later attempt to eradicate native culture but its was NOT anything like the holocaust.

[LebenIstKrieg]

You sound like a Marxist Churchill MR.:D

[Obzervi]

i think you are confused with the word genocide, and even thats debatable since that requires an intentional act instead of just not giving an damn.

in no way was the destruction of native culture and life an planned industralised act brought through an cordinated effort in an very short span of time.

and while we are of topic please soucre your "nearly an hunderd million" claim, most scholars put it somewhere between 1.8 to 10 million and thats almost all from smallpox and measles. while very unfortunate, europeans also didnt have any effective medecine against those disseases at the time. The amount of natives killed through somewhat intentional acts (war, starvation etc) wont make it near the million.

So yeah, there where genocidal aspects, espacily in the later attempt to eradicate native culture but its was NOT anything like the holocaust.
Yes I made a mistake with the 100 million claim, but that doesn't deride from my point. Just because it wasn't done as quickly does not change the outcome. The holocaust of World War II was one of many terrible holocausts committed in history. I don't see how the act has to be "industrial" to count as genocide. The Native Americans were purposefully exterminated and removed for the land to make way for white settlers. The fact that you are attempting to downplay one of the greatest genocides/holocausts in history is disturbing.

[Sasha]

Im not down playing any genocide, i'm arguing against your claim that the holocaust was not an distinct kind of genocide. And claiming that any genocide is the same as the shoah makes you look stupid.

[durhamleft]

Im not down playing any genocide, i'm arguing against your claim that the holocaust was not an distinct kind of genocide. And claiming that any genocide is the same as the shoah makes you look stupid.

While I disagree on one level with the person you are debating with, I would add that it does irritate me when the "6 million figure" is bandied around regarding the holocaust, totally ignoring the 12 million homosexuals, slavs, gypsies, communists, anti-fascists etc etc etc who were also killed in the Holocaust. The Holocaust was a tragedy for many many different people however people often only remember the Jews killed in it, which is probably to do with the state of Israel.

[LebenIstKrieg]

White working class masses avenged themselves against their merciless persecutor: the Jew. why are the far right so incredibly boring.

[Sasha]

While I disagree on one level with the person you are debating with, I would add that it does irritate me when the "6 million figure" is bandied around regarding the holocaust, totally ignoring the 12 million homosexuals, slavs, gypsies, communists, anti-fascists etc etc etc who were also killed in the Holocaust. The Holocaust was a tragedy for many many different people however people often only remember the Jews killed in it, which is probably to do with the state of Israel.

while i agree with your post that is save the last part of your last sentence.
i dont think that has anything or much to do with the state of israel but the coordinated effort of completly eradicating judaism, both its people and its culture, in the "final sollution". yes homosexuals, gypsies, jehova's witnesses etc etc where also specifcly targeted, and dont forget the handicaped, who where among the first victims of an coordinated murder campaing but the nazi's saved an special obsession for eradicating each and every person or thing related too judeaism.
While the progroms atacks on jews in eastern europe where very similair to the images we have seen in places like rwanda (getting the whole town together to slaughter the neighboors) the whole cold calculated way the western european jews where collected and procesed is something quite extrordenary

[Zanthorus]

even today we fight for everything under which we may designate as "democracy",

Of course, if you weren't caught up in tying the workers to the defence of the capitalist nation-state, forms of struggle might arise which acted autonomously of capital would arise and overthrow samesaid nation-state. That would be very inconvenient to the left-wing of capital. In the name of 'defending democracy' all the official Communist parties sacrificed their political independence, and subordinated the interests of the working-class to the 'democratic' and 'liberal' bourgeisie. This is in stark contrast to the actions of the working-class political party comprised of all the Internationalist-Revolutionary elements of the proletariat, which aims to organise the working-class as a class-for-itself autonomously of capital, which holds a principled opposition to bourgeois-state domination in all its forms, and which never sacrifices it's own political independence.


the final solution, the holocaust!


At that same time all our good democratic anti-fascists threw themselves on the corpses of the Jews. And since that time they wave them under the nose of the proletariat. In order to make them feel capitalism’s infamy? No, on the contrary. It’s to make it appreciate, in contrast, the true democracy, the true progress, the well being it enjoys in capitalist society. The horrors of capitalist death must make the proletariat forget the horrors of capitalist life and the fact that the two are indissolubly connected. The experiments of the SS doctors must make them forget that capitalism experiments on a large scale with carcinogenic products, on the effects of alcoholism on heredity, the radioactivity of “democratic” bombs. If they show lampshades made of human skin it’s to make us forget that capitalism transforms the living man into a lampshade. The mountains of hair, the teeth of gold, the bodies of men turned into merchandise must make us forget that capitalism made a merchandise of living man. It is labor, man’s very life, that capitalism has transformed into merchandise. This is the source of all evils. Using the corpses of the victims of capital to try to hide the reality, to have the corpses serve as protection for capital, is the most despicable way of using them to the ultimate degree.http://www.marxists.org/archive/bordiga/works/1960/auschwitz.htm


It is time, for us, to quash it, once more!

Yes, crush fascism in the egg! Because that has worked every time it has been tried. Oh, except for the fact that since the anti-fascist violence in Italy in the 70's, far-right organisations have grasped onto power under Berlusconi's government. Except for the fact that despite the attempts of the American left to crush the American Nazi Party, the tea party is now much closer to being a mass fascist movement than anything America has ever seen. Except for the fact that despite the attempts of the official Communist party and that quaint creature we call British Trotskyism to crush the national front in the 70's, the EDL is more dangerous than the latter ever was.

This kind of tactic does not worked, has never worked. Fascism arises quite naturally from capitalism, the only real alternative to it is socialism, the proletarian revolution.


Stop Racism NOW!

Sure thing, how about the left stops pandering to the British Labour Party, which is dedicated to inculculating the workers with nationalist and class-collaborationist illusions and joining in with immigrant baiting, since disavowing itself of this tactic would force it to take up a principled class position.

[MarxistResist]

You sound like a Marxist Churchill MR.:D

Really xD

[Obzervi]

while i agree with your post that is save the last part of your last sentence.
i dont think that has anything or much to do with the state of israel but the coordinated effort of completly eradicating judaism, both its people and its culture, in the "final sollution". yes homosexuals, gypsies, jehova's witnesses etc etc where also specifcly targeted, and dont forget the handicaped, who where among the first victims of an coordinated murder campaing but the nazi's saved an special obsession for eradicating each and every person or thing related too judeaism.
While the progroms atacks on jews in eastern europe where very similair to the images we have seen in places like rwanda (getting the whole town together to slaughter the neighboors) the whole cold calculated way the western european jews where collected and procesed is something quite extrordenary

I don't know, dying in a gas chamber or being hacked to death by machetes as you watch your female relatives being raped seem like equally horrid deaths to me. I don't think the method used to kill makes one murder any different than another, its equally bad.

[ZeroNowhere]

Whenever I read or hear one of these sub-humans speak, I rise in high moral indignation!That is a rather ironic proclamation.

[Barry Lyndon]

i think you are confused with the word genocide, and even thats debatable since that requires an intentional act instead of just not giving an damn.

in no way was the destruction of native culture and life an planned industralised act brought through an cordinated effort in an very short span of time.

and while we are of topic please soucre your "nearly an hunderd million" claim, most scholars put it somewhere between 1.8 to 10 million and thats almost all from smallpox and measles. while very unfortunate, europeans also didnt have any effective medecine against those disseases at the time. The amount of natives killed through somewhat intentional acts (war, starvation etc) wont make it near the million.

So yeah, there where genocidal aspects, espacily in the later attempt to eradicate native culture but its was NOT anything like the holocaust.

These are lies- what do you mean by 'most scholars'? White supremacists trying to cloak their holocaust denial in 'objectivity'? That won't do.
I suggest you read 'American Holocaust' by David Stannard or 'A Little Matter of Genocide' by Ward Churchill, and their are probably other sources I can't think of off the top of my head.

The official definition of genocide, by the UN Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of Genocide(1948) is any of any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocide#Intent_to_destroy), in whole or in part (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocide#In_part), a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:

(a) Killing members of the group;(b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;(c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;(d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;(e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.

a)http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mystic_massacre
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sand_Creek_massacre
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fort_Robinson_tragedy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camp_Grant_massacre
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wounded_Knee_Massacre
Among many other examples....

b) http://www.bcmj.org/traumatic-pasts-canadian-aboriginal-people-further-support-complex-trauma-conceptualization

c)Smallpox deliberately spread by British colonial authorities:
http://www.nativeweb.org/pages/legal/amherst/lord_jeff.html

Buffalo systematically slaughtered to starve Native Americans:
http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/206157/history_of_the_buffalo.html?cat=37

d) Native Americans sterilized in the United States:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJyYL4mpAd8

e) Indian boarding schools to 'civilize' Native American children:
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=16516865

By all the official criteria, it was a genocide.

[Sasha]

where did i state the fate of the american natives was NOT an genocide? i said it wasnt "a holocaust" and that it was debatable wheter or not it was an genocide. Because its being debated. please direct me to where i made an conclusion other than that there WHERE genocidal aspects.
you cant because i dint make such an statement, so dont acuse me of lies.

for your clarification i used genocidal aspects instead of genocide because while i believe the end result was the same as with an genocide " to destroy (http://www.anonym.to/?http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocide#Intent_to_destroy), in whole or in part (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocide#In_part), a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such" i personally doubt, for lots of reasons, wheter or not you can speak of intent, wich you pointed out is an intergral part of the definition of genocide.

but again thats just semmantics as the end result was the same horrific one.

[Barry Lyndon]

for your clarification i used genocidal aspects instead of genocide because while i believe the end result was the same as with an genocide " to destroy (http://www.anonym.to/?http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocide#Intent_to_destroy), in whole or in part (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocide#In_part), a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such" i personally doubt, for lots of reasons, wheter or not you can speak of intent, wich you pointed out is an intergral part of the definition of genocide,

There is ample evidence of intent. Just a few examples:


"My original convictions upon this subject have been confirmed by the course of events for several years, and experience is every day adding to their strength. That those tribes can not exist surrounded by our settlements and in continual contact with our citizens is certain. They have neither the intelligence, the industry, the moral habits, nor the desire of improvement which are essential to any favorable change in their condition. Established in the midst of another and a superior race, and without appreciating the causes of their inferiority or seeking to control them, they must necessarily yield to the force of circumstances and ere long disappear."-United States President Andrew Jackson, 1833
http://www.synaptic.bc.ca/ejournal/JacksonFifthAnnualMessage.htm

"We must act with vindictive earnestness against the Sioux, even to their extermination, men, women and children."- General William Tecumseh Sherman, 1866

[Obzervi]

where did i state the fate of the american natives was NOT an genocide? i said it wasnt "a holocaust" and that it was debatable wheter or not it was an genocide. Because its being debated. please direct me to where i made an conclusion other than that there WHERE genocidal aspects.
you cant because i dint make such an statement, so dont acuse me of lies.

for your clarification i used genocidal aspects instead of genocide because while i believe the end result was the same as with an genocide " to destroy (http://www.anonym.to/?http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocide#Intent_to_destroy), in whole or in part (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocide#In_part), a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such" i personally doubt, for lots of reasons, wheter or not you can speak of intent, wich you pointed out is an intergral part of the definition of genocide.

but again thats just semmantics as the end result was the same horrific one.

Genocide = Holocaust

No human being's life is worth more than another's. This issue is of fundamental importance since many zionists use the genocide of Jews in WWII as an excuse for the occupation of Palestine.

[MarxistResist]

*Bump* :thumbup1:

[GreenCommunism]

what is this bump bullshit, while being on the topic, i asked for figures about black slavery and i couldn<t find them, people told me to read a book but i wanted the numbers and i can't really buy that book :(.

[WeAreReborn]

why are the far right so incredibly boring.
Because if the right does anything clever their brainwashed supporters won't understand. Though most will follow anyways, good ol' racism is the most effective in controlling that crowd.

[~Spectre]

It's pretty disgusting that people still to this day deny the holocaust perpetrated against Natives of the Americas and Africans.

[Rainsborough]

Carefull comrades, I think I've seen posts of this style on scumfront, trying to big up the so called British Resistance Movement to the fasc.

[Rafiq]

6 million jews died.

But it should be regarded as a Political and Ethnic holocaust.

So when some mentions the holocaust, include all victims of it. Because many Jews were Homosexuals and Communists, and many Communists and homosexuals were non jews, so you cannot use the groups seperated "Communists, Jews, homosexuals" into different groups, because their were Jewish Communist homosexuals who were victims.

[freepalestine]

6 million jews died.

But it should be regarded as a Political and Ethnic holocaust.

So when some mentions the holocaust, include all victims of it. Because many Jews were Homosexuals and Communists, and many Communists and homosexuals were non jews, so you cannot use the groups seperated "Communists, Jews, homosexuals" into different groups, because their were Jewish Communist homosexuals who were victims.what the hell does that mean????
-------------------

forgetting that nonsense,this thread is pointless,-arguing about which was the worst genocide or not.???.
and for some to put down the genocide of native americans says alot.also to point out that HALF the roma population of europe where exterminated by nazism.

[Rafiq]

what the hell does that mean????
-------------------

forgetting that nonsense,this thread is pointless,-arguing about which was the worst genocide or not.???.
and for some to put down the genocide of native americans says alot.also to point out that HALF the roma population of europe where exterminated by nazism.

it means the Nazi holocaust includes gays and Communists, jewish and non jewish alike.

[William Howe]

I understand that the Holocaust was a major crime against humanity, but sometimes I'm annoyed by how people think there was only one holocaust in history. Nearly a hundred million Native Americans were wiped out by European conquerors, yet they get nowhere near the recognition the 6 million Jews of WWII get. African Americans can also be said to have had a holocaust committed against them.

Holocaust is different from genocide.

Genocide, which is what I assume you're talking about, is the selective, planned extermination of a certain group, be it for ethnic, racial, political, etc. reasons. African-Americans were certainly not genocided. Though treated extremely cruelly and sometimes killed, they were never targeted for extermination.

The Native Americans were, but your '100,000,000' statement is flawed, since at their height the Native population in both North and South America was roughly 40 million at the least, 60 at the most. The Europeans didn't attempt genocide. Though they did attempt to enslave the Natives, rule over them, and sometimes kill them, they never deliberately targeted Natives as a whole to be slaughtered. 95% of non-combat Native deaths caused by Europeans were indirectly and usually accidentally caused by European diseases, especially smallpox.

The only area where deliberate genocide was attempted was in the United States, where brutally vicious 'removal' acts were passed. Untold hundreds of thousands of innocent Natives were killed by US troops and citizens, and many more were enslaved, imprisoned, or deported.