60 billion to Saudi Arabia

[RGacky3]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=001F4tq6Cng

If your an American, and your not outraged by this, you have a problem.

BTW, this is an AWESOME example of the United States propeganda machine that would make Stalin have a wet dream, you hear almost 24/7 about the mosque in ground 0, you hear almost 24/7 about how "We can't afford unemployment." But we are going to give 60 billion dollars worth of weapons to a Terrorist state, and the public does'nt even get the money, the (heavily subsidised) arms industry does, but not a peep, its a joke.

[Dean]

Yep - material arms to the regime most closely linked to Al Qaeda are indeed the correct measure of state power and who and what deals represent what interests.

All the posturing about 9-11, and the relative dearth of critical analysis on these issues, speak volumes for the pay-to-play character of the media.

[Bud Struggle]

Well patriotism is all right in its place--but we are talking money here. Real money. We have to get our priorities straight. ;)

[Nolan]

I love the cycle here. The US props up a new monster to get rid of the monster they caused, right after destroying another monster they made. Meanwhile everyone is getting rich.

Someday Saudi Arabia might be in Irans shoes, and CNN will be screaming over the horrors of public beheadings. ;)

[Publius]

If we don't give the terrorists weapons then the terrorists win.

Am I doing this right?

[Conquer or Die]

Angst aside, the best thing you can tell poor people in America to do is invest in its most protected, self serving, and profitable industry - weapons. There is no America without her guns. Forget about morality for a second, get yours while the getting is good.

[Occidentalrights]

If your an American, and your not outraged by this, you have a problem.

BTW, this is an AWESOME example of the United States propeganda machine that would make Stalin have a wet dream, you hear almost 24/7 about the mosque in ground 0, you hear almost 24/7 about how "We can't afford unemployment." But we are going to give 60 billion dollars worth of weapons to a Terrorist state, and the public does'nt even get the money, the (heavily subsidised) arms industry does, but not a peep, its a joke.

You know it's funny, this is very similar to the outlook I would expect from the White Nationalist movement. What I've found strange over here on the left, from my cursory scan that is, is the amount of ideological overlap on the likes of *************** and over here. Positions on capitalist elites, fiat currency, Israel, Palestine and US imperialism are all broadly similar. The only major differences I can see are our respective positions on race, meritocracy, cultural relativism, the relationship between state and church and our positions on immigration. Does anyone else percieve this common ground?

[Dimentio]

You know it's funny, this is very similar to the outlook I would expect from the White Nationalist movement. What I've found strange over here on the left, from my cursory scan that is, is the amount of ideological overlap on the likes of *************** and over here. Positions on capitalist elites, fiat currency, Israel, Palestine and US imperialism are all broadly similar. The only major differences I can see are our respective positions on race, meritocracy, cultural relativism, the relationship between state and church and our positions on immigration. Does anyone else percieve this common ground?

You hate capitalism because it is "too egalitarian" or "too immoral", while most of us dislike capitalism because it is hierarchical and amassing the wealth of the planet into the hands of a small fragment of the population.

[Che a chara]

You know it's funny, this is very similar to the outlook I would expect from the White Nationalist movement. What I've found strange over here on the left, from my cursory scan that is, is the amount of ideological overlap on the likes of *************** and over here. Positions on capitalist elites, fiat currency, Israel, Palestine and US imperialism are all broadly similar. The only major differences I can see are our respective positions on race, meritocracy, cultural relativism, the relationship between state and church and our positions on immigration. Does anyone else percieve this common ground?

No. You're looking to corrupt the working class.

[Occidentalrights]

No. You're looking to corrupt the working class.

Elaborate?

[Dean]

You know it's funny, this is very similar to the outlook I would expect from the White Nationalist movement. What I've found strange over here on the left, from my cursory scan that is, is the amount of ideological overlap on the likes of *************** and over here. Positions on capitalist elites, fiat currency, Israel, Palestine and US imperialism are all broadly similar. The only major differences I can see are our respective positions on race, meritocracy, cultural relativism, the relationship between state and church and our positions on immigration. Does anyone else percieve this common ground?

Absolutely not.

Capitalist elites: While we are insensitive to them, we have no real interest in their death - just in usurping their power.
Fiat Currency: What is the w/n stance on this one?
Israel: Sorry, we don't hate Jews.
Palestine: We support secularist emancipation - again, not antisemitism.
US Imperialism: Seriously? The left is opposed to all imperial and capitalist disparities in power among peoples, and we primarily argue this point by way of rejecting the basis of culturalist and nationalist divisions of the working class. the w/n have no interest in such points.


Not very similar - at all.

[Che a chara]

Elaborate?

You say we have common ground, and that common ground is supposedly in the interests of the working class. But your intentions divides, alienates and drives a sword between the working class and the oppressed.

How can there be any base of commonality while our intentions is the unity of ALL working class worldwide?

[Occidentalrights]

Absolutely not.

Capitalist elites: While we are insensitive to them, we have no real interest in their death - just in usurping their power.
Fiat Currency: What is the w/n stance on this one?
Israel: Sorry, we don't hate Jews.
Palestine: We support secularist emancipation - again, not antisemitism.
US Imperialism: Seriously? The left is opposed to all imperial and capitalist disparities in power among peoples, and we primarily argue this point by way of rejecting the basis of culturalist and nationalist divisions of the working class. the w/n have no interest in such points.

Capitalist elites: I agree with your position, though I would add the caveat that leftist elites similarly be included.
Fiat Currency: the WN position is that Fiat Currency nefariously redistributes wealth created by productive people to capitalist (and leftist) banking interests.
Israel: WN has no real stake in the fate of Israel or Palestine, beyond the conviction that Israel should be held to UN resolution 242. Our grievance is with Zionist Jews (and Zionist gentiles) in the western states.
Palestine: see previous comment.
US imperialism: WN is a separatist movement, we have no qualms with other nationalities nor any desire to be involved in their affairs.

[RGacky3]

Does anyone else percieve this common ground?

Nazis believe in evolution, so do scientists, common ground, nazism and science.

Both libertarians and Nazis think that socialism is bad .... hmmmm, I think we're getting somewhere.

Don't be an idiot man.

[Occidentalrights]

Nazis believe in evolution, so do scientists, common ground, nazism and science.

Both libertarians and Nazis think that socialism is bad .... hmmmm, I think we're getting somewhere.

Don't be an idiot man.

This is a risible straw-man fallacy followed by an unprovoked ad-hominem attack.

I simply pointed out that there is ideological overlap betweem White Nationalism and communism on some issues.

I am neither a "libertarian" nor a "Nazi", my feeling is that you ought to do more research on both your political cadre's positions and the positions of your opposition, perhaps then you will have something intelligent to say. You discredit your movement with a lack of intellectual rigour.

[RGacky3]

I'm saying your so called ideological overlap is meaningless because you can find it with everything.

[Occidentalrights]

I'm saying your so called ideological overlap is meaningless because you can find it with everything.

Well I can dig that, I'm not saying our beliefs are in any way compatible, simply that in some areas of policy there is ideological overlap, capatilist elites for example.

[Amphictyonis]

001F4tq6Cng

If your an American, and your not outraged by this, you have a problem.

BTW, this is an AWESOME example of the United States propeganda machine that would make Stalin have a wet dream, you hear almost 24/7 about the mosque in ground 0, you hear almost 24/7 about how "We can't afford unemployment." But we are going to give 60 billion dollars worth of weapons to a Terrorist state, and the public does'nt even get the money, the (heavily subsidised) arms industry does, but not a peep, its a joke.

The US is cocky and thinks it can stoke conflict between Saudi Arabia and Iran/Yemen.

From the Washington Post:

"Defense industry analysts said the sale of the aircraft is a key to U.S. efforts to boost support from Arab allies against Iran"

Fucking idiots. All the talk of the evil al qaeda.....

[Baseball]

The true outrage of the arms sale is that it means the Obama Administration has accepted not only a nuclear Iran, but an Iran with nuclear weapons.

[Dimentio]

The true outrage of the arms sale is that it means the Obama Administration has accepted not only a nuclear Iran, but an Iran with nuclear weapons.

K.

[Dean]

The true outrage of the arms sale is that it means the Obama Administration has accepted not only a nuclear Iran, but an Iran with nuclear weapons.

There is no evidence that Iran is even close to having a nuclear arm, nor that it is necessarily striving for it. They are attempting to enrich Uranium to 20% so that they can have domestic radiation therapy, and 90% is required for nuclear arms. I haven't looked into the particulars of what it takes to enrich to 90%, but I'm fairly sure it is a significant advancement from what tech and resources they have atm - and the fact that its taken so long to even get closer to 20% reinforces this point.

The real outrage is the human rights abuses engaged in by the Saudi, Egyptian and Israeli gov'ts and the subsequent complacency, endorsement and enablement engaged in by the US government under the guise of "spreading democracy" / "domestic security" or other such chimeras.

[Demogorgon]

You know it's funny, this is very similar to the outlook I would expect from the White Nationalist movement. What I've found strange over here on the left, from my cursory scan that is, is the amount of ideological overlap on the likes of *************** and over here. Positions on capitalist elites, fiat currency, Israel, Palestine and US imperialism are all broadly similar. The only major differences I can see are our respective positions on race, meritocracy, cultural relativism, the relationship between state and church and our positions on immigration. Does anyone else percieve this common ground?
There is no common ground, and I suggest you give up on any attempt to find it. You have a notion of "capitalist elites" based on idiotic nostalgia for a vaguely defined past golden age without them. We do so because Capitalism itself goes against the interests of the vast majority of people on this planet. You oppose fiat currency because you are economic illiterates who want to go back to the days of the gold standard (which incidentally also allowed factional reserve banking, but that is another story), we wish to move to a world where money is no longer an instrument of power privileging the ruling class. You oppose Israel because you are anti-Semites who want to see anything Jewish come to harm, we oppose it because we seek the same rights for Palestinians we demand for Jews.

All you have done is point out positions where neither of us hold the views the mainstream does. The difference is that on each issue you are less progressive than the mainstream and we are more progressive. We have not an inch of common ground.

[Nolan]

You know it's funny, this is very similar to the outlook I would expect from the White Nationalist movement. What I've found strange over here on the left, from my cursory scan that is, is the amount of ideological overlap on the likes of *************** and over here. Positions on capitalist elites, fiat currency, Israel, Palestine and US imperialism are all broadly similar. The only major differences I can see are our respective positions on race, meritocracy, cultural relativism, the relationship between state and church and our positions on immigration. Does anyone else percieve this common ground?

Your view of capitalist elites is not based on awareness of power relations. Actually it is almost identical to the "anti-elite" tendencies you would see from any teabagger or anti-consumerist christian theocrat, i.e. it derives from a right-wing worldview based on some idealized past where whites/christians/libertarians held power. Note the fact that you mention "leftist" bankers, a common denominator of all right-wing demagoguery.


The only major differences I can see are our respective positions on race, meritocracy, cultural relativism, the relationship between state and church and our positions on immigration.

And when you add in our views of the roles of state and class in society, we have "major differences" in everything and common ground in nothing. American conservatives are the ones you might hit it off with on many things.


Funny that you pay lip service to anti-imperialism when white nationalism has been one of the biggest justifications for imperialism in modern history.

[Ele'ill]

If we don't give the terrorists weapons then the terrorists win.

Am I doing this right?


No, a certain portion of your country's population has to be emotionally and materially destitute prior to weapon sales to terrorists.

Oh wait, yeah we're good.