[USA] If right wing Tea Partiers revolted with violence, should there be a response?

[hemlock]

There was an article out about the guy who lost to the far right nutjob Sharon Angle in the GOP primary, Tarkanian. He stated that GOP officials where pressing him to support outright violent revolution against the government if the Tea Partiers fail to win majority votes.

At this point, because the economy is pressing people to think crazy, if tea partiers, who are losely organized and only united by their far right ideals, ethic and racial prejudice, and extremist political ideologies, began to attack either

1-The government outright or (far more likely)

2- Member of groups they dislike (Unions, teachers, immigrants, mexicans, blacks, muslims, anyone that identifies as moderate or left wing)


- Should and would their be a response? If so, what would be the most likely conclusion? Th government finally allies with those mentioned above, or would you have a Colombia situation, where you have the minorities, unions, left wingers, and scholars in one group, the far right wingers in another, and the government as a third?


Disclaimer - I am not here advocating violence in any way. I am merely presenting a hypothetical, and asking what would or should be the most natural response under the given hypothetical conditions.

[ed miliband]

At this point, because the economy is pressing people to think crazy, if tea partiers, who are losely organized and only united by their far right ideals, ethic and racial prejudice, and extremist political ideologies, began to attack either


I'm not saying you're wrong, but do you have any proof that Tea Partiers are "united by their... ethnic and racial prejudice"? There are no doubt racists involved in the Tea Party, but racism doesn't seem to be part of their political basis. The only thing that really unites all Tea Partiers is a confused call for the "free market", something I'm sure they haven't really considered the full implications of.

How many Tea Party members are there roughly, does anyone know? I hear Glenn Beck has around 3 mil. viewers - a tiny number! - and yet so much fuss has been made about him you'd assume he was somebody with serious political power. I daresay that Tea Party membership is substantially smaller than people make out.

[piet11111]

Well there is a reason the american constitution had the right to bear arms included. (its one of the few parts i like)

First to overthrow the government should it become tyrannical.
Second to protect the country should it come under attack.

Both apply should the tea-wankers try anything.

[Revolution starts with U]

They will attack. Even if they win, minor setbacks will be seen as "counter-revolutionary" (I can literally see that happening, most of their rhetoric is populist and taken from left wing causes but applied to rightist issues) and the angst will just ramp up.
They had the entire govt in their grasp, the full backing of the financial and industrial capitalists (the biggest ones) and yet they still acted like a persecuted minority. These people are delusional, and they will attack.
We need to direct their attack not towards the govt, as that can gain support, but towards welfare mothers, teachers, and unionists. Make it apparent what kind of tyrannical hate-mongers that they are.
Enticing NAZI's and the KKK to actively support them would help too.
There's a storm brewing on the horizons brothers, we must end the hegemony or dark times will befall us.

[ed miliband]

The end of the world is nigh, right?

[The Fighting_Crusnik]

From the way it seems to me, the tea party is slowly dying. But if they freak out, go radical and starting killing people and blowing shit up, then just let the military handle them and let us use force only in the name of self defense. Remember, the American left and right is fiercely opposed to one another. So unless we get dragged in, just let them beat eachother to a bloody pulp... then hopefully people will see that we're the only rational ones around :lol:

[Nolan]

If some type of Black Panther style leftist militias could be formed during such a crisis, they should probably let the state and the paramilitaries kill each other. However, they would defend the people you listed from violence by either side: "Unions, teachers, immigrants, mexicans, blacks, muslims, anyone that identifies as moderate or left wing."

That should be their only real purpose outside of agitation and education, imho.

[Revolution starts with U]

Dying? It seems to me they get more coverage everyday. It is not the end of the world, but they are speaking of secession. Whatever their politics with the US govt, I care not. But like you say Penguin, we must show we are the only rational ones around, and that is not by sitting on our computers watching it from the sidelines.

[Nolan]

Yes, I have noticed that the Tea Party as it was spawned by Fox is losing steam - that or those people are focusing less on "big government" and more on Muslims and Mexicans, like they were before Obama. But then again those sets of rhetoric are two sides of the same coin.

[RadioRaheem84]

The tea party movement is not dying, it's just descending into a possible reactionary revolutionary movement that will fester in the coming years. Many of the tea party people here in TX talk daily about a coming revolt or something. I used to think they were nutty or talking about it in an abstract form but many of them are getting serious about it.

If there ever was a collective revolt by the right, the State would come down on them hard. In a manner none of us would like to see.

The State would not support them unless they had more political clout, which I doubt they would.

We should ourselves form a popular left wing front to combat the reactionary elements of US society as well as oppose the government's increasingly imperial ambitions.

[Tablo]

Foreal, the tea party movement is a joke and it is dying. I have been seeing less and less of them in recent months. I'm no longer concerned.

[Psy]

The tea party movement is not dying, it's just descending into a possible reactionary revolutionary movement that will fester in the coming years. Many of the tea party people here in TX talk daily about a coming revolt or something. I used to think they were nutty or talking about it in an abstract form but many of them are getting serious about it.

If there ever was a collective revolt by the right, the State would come down on them hard. In a manner none of us would like to see.

We seen the US state come down hard on the right before back in the 1980's after the Neo-Nazis robbed a armed car and the FBI declared war on the entire militant right climaxing with Waco.



The State would not support them unless they had more political clout, which I doubt they would.

Even then the FBI would infiltrate the leadership Tea Party and turn them into a tool of the FBI.

[hemlock]

I'm not saying you're wrong, but do you have any proof that Tea Partiers are "united by their... ethnic and racial prejudice"? There are no doubt racists involved in the Tea Party, but racism doesn't seem to be part of their political basis.

Aside from their racialist signs, and code-speak rhetoric, there is this study survey taken by the tea partiers themselves.

uwnews.org/article.asp?articleid=57364


The only thing that really unites all Tea Partiers is a confused call for the "free market", something I'm sure they haven't really considered the full implications of.

At least half of them have stated their primary focus is the 'secure our borders' anti immigration argument. While I agree their twice-failed 'free market' ideology is one assertion, it is merely the less embarrassing one that they market to the masses to avoid being called what they are.


Well there is a reason the american constitution had the right to bear arms included. (its one of the few parts i like)

First to overthrow the government should it become tyrannical.
Second to protect the country should it come under attack.

Both apply should the tea-wankers try anything.

Actually if you read much of the manuscripts during the writing of the constitution, an equal amount of evidence leans to the fact that the primary purpose was so that the people could resist another british invasion to retake the colonies...because at the time no one was sure of a united federalized military.


They will attack. Even if they win, minor setbacks will be seen as "counter-revolutionary" (I can literally see that happening, most of their rhetoric is populist and taken from left wing causes but applied to rightist issues) and the angst will just ramp up.
They had the entire govt in their grasp, the full backing of the financial and industrial capitalists (the biggest ones) and yet they still acted like a persecuted minority. These people are delusional, and they will attack.

I totally agree. But their positioning is disingenuous. They cry about taxes, when what they mean is they dont want their tax money going to things they disagree with (they had no problem when Bush was taxing them). They cry about 'illegal immigration and unsecure borders' but what they really are concerned with is becoming a minority group...particularly becoming a minority to a group they, as a majority, oppressed without consideration.



If some type of Black Panther style leftist militias could be formed during such a crisis, they should probably let the state and the paramilitaries kill each other. However, they would defend the people you listed from violence by either side: "Unions, teachers, immigrants, mexicans, blacks, muslims, anyone that identifies as moderate or left wing."


But isnt that what happened with FARC. Only, due to outside interference (US funding) and the weakness and innate corruption of the government (like ours), the right wingers basically took over the government by rigging elections, and basically used that power to wipe out the peoples resistance forces (along with anyone else the fascists felt threatened by).


If there ever was a collective revolt by the right, the State would come down on them hard. In a manner none of us would like to see.


Why would we not want to see the state finally crack down on right wing extremists?

At this point, the state has either turned a blind eye to them (police aggression) or quasi endorsed them (corporate fascists, blackwater, tea partiers etc).

It seems to me these people want to redo the civil war (notice all the rhetoric thats race based, or how they want to get rid of the 14th and 17th amendments...). Thats a GOOD cause for government action.

[Psy]

Why would we not want to see the state finally crack down on right wing extremists?

At this point, the state has either turned a blind eye to them (police aggression) or quasi endorsed them (corporate fascists, blackwater, tea partiers etc).

It seems to me these people want to redo the civil war (notice all the rhetoric thats race based, or how they want to get rid of the 14th and 17th amendments...). Thats a GOOD cause for government action.

Because the FBI is a brutal force of the bourgeoisie state, one that is much more a threat to left then the Tea Party.

[RadioRaheem84]

Michael Parenti has a really good chapter on right wing groups in Democracy for the Few. In it he describes how the US Security State uses and controls right wing groups to do their dirty work against leftists. I wouldn't be surprised if the US government would do the same with the Tea Party.

The Tea Party as a mainstream organization in the media spotlight is losing steam, but as an organization that is fostering growth on it's own, it's moving full speed ahead, IMO.

It at least had the effect of radicalizing mostly apolitical people. My gf's father is one of them as he now watches Fox News religiously and subscribes to right wing rags where as before he was just a casual observer.

[hemlock]

It at least had the effect of radicalizing mostly apolitical people. My gf's father is one of them as he now watches Fox News religiously and subscribes to right wing rags where as before he was just a casual observer.

?? Radicalizing the apolitical to support fascism is a bad thing.

Imagine how much better the world would be if the Nazi's were not able to rally the germans to support them out of apolitical apathy?

[Rusty Shackleford]

the formation of out-right left wing militias(which i am assuming you are getting at) is a silly notion, right now at least.

the workers in Spain weren't in militias before franco took power and look at how well they defended for a few years. yes they failed, but apply that to modern america...
this place is the hub of advanced civilian weaponry(seriously, look at Keltec rifles) and most people are familiar with weapons.

of course, if they attempt a coup d'etat via the military (which is laughably unlikely right now) the rule of law would be off the table and it basically becomes an "anything goes to fuck up the fascists" period. and yes, if they take that position, the transform into complete fascists. thats really the only ingredient missing from the tea party movement... out right violence.

also on the issue of race, they are not explicitly racist, and fascism was not explicitly racist. racism has fertile ground to grow in fascism though. calling them racists is like shooting fish in a barrel. you might miss one, but hit another. basically, some may not be racist, and some may be.

[hemlock]

the formation of out-right left wing militias(which i am assuming you are getting at) is a silly notion, right now at least.

As I mentioned, Im not advocating any violence. I am merely asking what would (or will) happen when tea partiers start attacking people/politicians/members of groups they dont dislike with violence?

There are reports all over of threats. Heck, they even threatened the GOP candidate in Maryland who opposed the tea party candidate.

[Rusty Shackleford]

As I mentioned, Im not advocating any violence. I am merely asking what would (or will) happen when tea partiers start attacking people/politicians/members of groups they dont dislike with violence?

There are reports all over of threats. Heck, they even threatened the GOP candidate in Maryland who opposed the tea party candidate.

well if they start attacking people, and are forming ideological combat-like units or absorbing militias into one organization then no doubt the issue of self defense is legitimized against these fuckers.

if you are being shot at, you are legally allowed to fight back. and in such a case, im sure the government(current) wouldnt mind people fighting these bastards off.

[Antifa94]

They will attack. Even if they win, minor setbacks will be seen as "counter-revolutionary" (I can literally see that happening, most of their rhetoric is populist and taken from left wing causes but applied to rightist issues) and the angst will just ramp up.
They had the entire govt in their grasp, the full backing of the financial and industrial capitalists (the biggest ones) and yet they still acted like a persecuted minority. These people are delusional, and they will attack.
We need to direct their attack not towards the govt, as that can gain support, but towards welfare mothers, teachers, and unionists. Make it apparent what kind of tyrannical hate-mongers that they are.
Enticing NAZI's and the KKK to actively support them would help too.
There's a storm brewing on the horizons brothers, we must end the hegemony or dark times will befall us.


Cool story bro!

Anyway, while you reside in your chomskian nightmare of a fascist takeover of the united states, the Tea party continues to lose legitimacy and support, and their leaders have begun to make left-esque concessions, like Glenn beck supporting gay marriage and Palin being against burning the Quran.

There will be slight violence a la the 90's but you can't expect anything major. A tax revolt in the style of the Waco siege( yes, i know that was a religious conflict) of 1993, some shootings of hispanics and minorities, bombings of abortion clinics and possibly liberal buildings( isolated incidents)
and probably one massive terrorist attack a la Oklahoma City Bombing. But a full scale civil war or guerrilla campaign? Dubious. Nonetheless, the incidents i mentioned still present a threat.

[Rusty Shackleford]

conditions for a full on right-wing revolt would have to be worse than they are now. a political defeat will radicalize more, but they are still comfortable.

[Antifa94]

I'm actually quite scared that Republican party members asked him to call for civil insurrection.

[Rusty Shackleford]

politicians in the us are generally hysterical right now. and yeah, that is rather surprising, but its to be expected right now.

[Antifa94]

I'm beginning to love(Unbelievable, I know) normal Republicans now( moderate ones that is) as I really, really appreciate their moderation and right of center ideologies at this point in American history, that is, the ones that oppose the tea party.

Their moderation and restraint can prevent a civil war.

[RadioRaheem84]

I'm beginning to love(Unbelievable, I know) normal Republicans now( moderate ones that is) as I really, really appreciate their moderation and right of center ideologies at this point in American history, that is, the ones that oppose the tea party.

Their moderation and restraint can prevent a civil war.

But also start them in other nations.

[Psy]

As I mentioned, Im not advocating any violence. I am merely asking what would (or will) happen when tea partiers start attacking people/politicians/members of groups they dont dislike with violence?

There are reports all over of threats. Heck, they even threatened the GOP candidate in Maryland who opposed the tea party candidate.

The FBI will ***** slap them (and by that I mean brutally crush them), the FBI never accepted any group that challenged the status quo. The FBI will leave the Tea Party alone as long as they only attack the proletariat but as soon as soon as they become a real threat to either bourgeoisie property or the bourgeoisie themselves the FBI will come down on them like a ton of bricks.

[Rusty Shackleford]

The FBI will ***** slap them (and by that I mean brutally crush them), the FBI never accepted any group that challenged the status quo. The FBI will leave the Tea Party alone as long as they only attack the proletariat but as soon as soon as they become a real threat to either bourgeoisie property or the bourgeoisie themselves the FBI will come down on them like a ton of bricks.
pretty much.

[Antifa94]

Yeah there was a SWAT team at a tea party meeting in the spring. suddenly I love the FBI <3

[Psy]

Yeah there was a SWAT team at a tea party meeting in the spring. suddenly I love the FBI <3
Those were riot police, the right has yet to learn how identify the varieties of police.

SWAT teams are rarely used in the open as their specialty is storming buildings, riot police are usually what we see dealing with crowd control, currently FBI agents currently are there just to spy on the events so they can build a database of members of the Tea Party and keep tabs of what they are up to.

[Unkut]

It seems to me these people want to redo the civil war (notice all the rhetoric thats race based, or how they want to get rid of the 14th and 17th amendments...).

I've noticed this as well. It could actually become serious one day, I don't know.

[Kibbutznik]

I really doubt it will come to that.

But if it does, the best thing to do is to stay out of it, and let the state handle it. The establishment is not particularly fond of the Tea Party. They're just useful idiots. If they do get stupid enough to start civil insurrection, then the best thing we can do is stay out of the way while they get theirs handed to them.

If they try to come after innocents, call the police. Fight back if necessary, but major street fighting will only get things even worse.

[Unkut]

Yeah I'm not worried about it I just think it's possible. But probably not on a mass scale come to think of it, just a few isolated incidents maybe.

[AK]

The FBI will ***** slap them (and by that I mean brutally crush them), the FBI never accepted any group that challenged the status quo. The FBI will leave the Tea Party alone as long as they only attack the proletariat but as soon as soon as they become a real threat to either bourgeoisie property or the bourgeoisie themselves the FBI will come down on them like a ton of bricks.
Tea Party threatening Bourgeois property? :laugh:

[Psy]

Tea Party threatening Bourgeois property? :laugh:
Since the core of the Tea Party is petite-bourgeoisie the Tea Party could attack the bourgeoisie. Hell there are elements in the Tea Party right now that are anti-bourgeoisie talking about a petite-bourgeoisie armed revolution to restore "true" capitalism in the USA, they are fringe elements within the Tea Party but that could change.

[Psy]

I really doubt it will come to that.

But if it does, the best thing to do is to stay out of it, and let the state handle it. The establishment is not particularly fond of the Tea Party. They're just useful idiots. If they do get stupid enough to start civil insurrection, then the best thing we can do is stay out of the way while they get theirs handed to them.

If they try to come after innocents, call the police. Fight back if necessary, but major street fighting will only get things even worse.

Yet depending on our strength at the time they could be used as a diversion. Since if US forces are preoccupied dealing with them the US bourgeoisie would have less resources it could allocate to crushing worker uprisings. For example imagine if we had major worker uprisings like that of July 1877 shortly after US forces were deployed elsewhere to deal with a Tea Party insurrection.

From a tactical standpoint (with everything else being equal) a Tea Party insurrection would be the perfect time for worker uprisings as it would be spreading the US forces forces thinner.

[Red Commissar]

Teabaggers are serving a purpose for certain groups, and those groups would not approve of violent methods at this stage. It's not favorable to them.

We've seen a few cases already of local tea party branches being cut off from the movement at large, or tea baggers in some place splitting in to separate tea parties (just like us! :lol:). If any self-proclaimed tea bagger attempts violence the other tea baggers will be quick to distance themselves from the violence.

The only way the tea party could go up in violence is if things destabilize greatly (doubtful) or if we had an entirely different situation. For example, lets say that for what ever reason socialist groups were becoming large and influential, enough to be a threat at least, combined with some political instability. Tea baggers would then probably then be employed in the same vein that the Black Hundreds were in Tsarist Russia. This is the only scenario I can feasibly see a mass tea-bagger uprising, and this in its self is unlikely. The way the United States is set up avoids these situations.

At the present Tea Party only serves as a form of political leverage some interested groups, like the Koch brothers, are using in order to advance their own agendas in the political realm.

[hemlock]

Yet depending on our strength at the time they could be used as a diversion. Since if US forces are preoccupied dealing with them the US bourgeoisie would have less resources it could allocate to crushing worker uprisings. For example imagine if we had major worker uprisings like that of July 1877 shortly after US forces were deployed elsewhere to deal with a Tea Party insurrection.

From a tactical standpoint (with everything else being equal) a Tea Party insurrection would be the perfect time for worker uprisings as it would be spreading the US forces forces thinner.

I was thinking the same thing.

The only issue = Can the various left, liberal and progressive interests unite against them if they did? And would said-groups even do so? There is much infighting, as we see even today with the failure that is the democrats and the losing cause of the Obama administration. Once they have control, they begin to not only fight themselves, but vy for support away from the left wing base, toward the insular right wing.

There is bad blood between the various anti-conservative groups. The various ethnic and religious minorities, unions, greens, the celebrity liberals, socialists, what remains of the ideological communists, anti-corporatist, feminists, anti-fascists, naturalist, environmentalists, academia, the young and unemployed and the old and unemployed...the only common ground each of these groups has is that they have been targeted and abused by the right wing. Is that enough?

[Psy]

I was thinking the same thing.

The only issue = Can the various left, liberal and progressive interests unite against them if they did? And would said-groups even do so? There is much infighting, as we see even today with the failure that is the democrats and the losing cause of the Obama administration. Once they have control, they begin to not only fight themselves, but vy for support away from the left wing base, toward the insular right wing.

There is bad blood between the various anti-conservative groups. The various ethnic and religious minorities, unions, greens, the celebrity liberals, socialists, what remains of the ideological communists, anti-corporatist, feminists, anti-fascists, naturalist, environmentalists, academia, the young and unemployed and the old and unemployed...the only common ground each of these groups has is that they have been targeted and abused by the right wing. Is that enough?
I was meant targeting the bourgeoisie not the conservative groups. Meaning the actually conflict between Teabaggers vs the US state would be irrelevant to us it would just be something spreading US forces thinners providing a window for a workers revolution to occupy means of production.

So we would not have to unite against the Teabagger, we would not even have to engage them just take the means of production while the Teabagger keep US forces busy. After that the Teabaggers would be irreverent to us (and probably irrlevent to the US state as they change their attention to us but hopefully by then we'd be prepared for them). For example imagine if during something like Waco there was something along the lines July 1877 where workers of Virginia, West Virginia and Maryland went on a massive general strike and took to the streets.