Why is such a fuss being made by the British "Left" about cuts to the police

[ed miliband]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-11276452


Mr Crow said: "If there is a concerted effort by this new government to attack workers in all different parts of society, then my belief is that if one group of workers are taking action on one day and another group of workers are taking action on another day that we should co-ordinate that resistance to defend working men and working women."

Asked if action this autumn would be too early, he said: "If there's no attacks take place until next March, next April or next May - that will be the time the resistance will take place, I think it will be earlier than then."


He said people had yet to feel the effects of cuts: "What do you want, do you want bankers to have bonuses or do you want police on the street?"Umm... neither?

The Labour Party seem to be very vocal about cuts to the police (search "labour police cuts" on google, for example), to the point where it seems the only cuts they are concerned about are cuts to policing.

I mean, I've heard opposition to the police described as "Daily Mail politics" by a Labour Party supporter who considered himself a socialist, and I know this is just an anecdote which I have no evidence for, but this sort of attitude does seem to be rife within what now passes for the British Left.

Is this common in other countries? I thought even amongst Democrats in the US the police were viewed with suspicion? And surely cuts to the policing should be something people who consider themselves left-wing should be pushing, rather than cuts to welfare, education, etc?

[ed miliband]

As a side note, if you look at some of Labour's rhetoric about policing and crime it's genuinely astonishing they have any support for people who consider themselves left-wing or socialist at all.

[rednordman]

Yes, we ALL hate them (usually justified too), but seriously, could you imagine a world without any sort of police what so ever? Also, I totally agree with the notion that putting bankers ahead of police is totally wrong.

Bankers do fuck all for society other than contribuite to making a mess, despite all the liberal bullshit that is spewed out to defend them. At least there are some police out there with honest good intentions. And this effects our live directly for the better.

[scarletghoul]

"but but theyre workers in uniform" :rolleyes: just like our brave boys in afghanistan amirite

[Obs]

Yes, we ALL hate them (usually justified too), but seriously, could you imagine a world without any sort of police what so ever?
Yes. It'd rock.

When I hear the word 'police', I understand it as a group of people who are given power from above to do things to other people that would be a crime if they hadn't been granted that power. Obviously, such a system is ripe for abuse of said power, which is what we see in modern society. So either we get rid of police as we know it, or we change it until it's pretty much unrecognisable.

[revolution inaction]

the left is not revolutiary, they just present a different version of capitalism, so it is not at all strange for trade unionists to support the police, after all there are a fundamental part of capitalism.

[Crux]

Cuts to the police won't bring money to other parts of the public sector, just more cuts. Nothing wrong in pointing out the labour party's hypocrisy, though,
and yeah, government cuts won't do away with the police.

[ed miliband]

Yes, we ALL hate them (usually justified too), but seriously, could you imagine a world without any sort of police what so ever? Also, I totally agree with the notion that putting bankers ahead of police is totally wrong.

Bankers do fuck all for society other than contribuite to making a mess, despite all the liberal bullshit that is spewed out to defend them. At least there are some police out there with honest good intentions. And this effects our live directly for the better.

Who is saying that bankers will be put ahead of the police? Nobody but Bob Crow, who was simply speculating. If anything the police will be put ahead of the public, who will suffer far more from cuts to health, education and welfare than they will from cuts to the police.

[Antifa94]

Because labour can't implement a police state with cuts to the police.
durrr
Also they're moaning about the lack of funds to security cameras, boo-hoo, as all aspects of human life can't be kept in check without these instruments.

[rednordman]

I do totally agree with all the responses to my post (in response to OP) but in todays government is there really any good we can hope for? It seems like there is doom and gloom no matter what direction we look at it. Incidently, i'd prefer even Nulabour over the current joke of a government we have now.

I will ask what would happen to people who are discontented with situation and decide to take the piss after a revolution? How would we deal with them? or even monitor them?

[Rusty Shackleford]

"but but theyre workers in uniform" :rolleyes: just like our brave boys in afghanistan amirite
cops i dont care about, they are willingly anti-working class and racist, but soldiers are a different story.

ive been rather consistent on my views towards enlisted soldiers in that i see them primarily as economic conscripts. obviously through training working class mentality is attacked(if there was any in this society with such low class consciousness) and replaced with submission to bourgeois hierarchy.

obviously with this assault on their humanity they are prone to horrendous acts such as murdering civilians and keeping body parts as trophies. but had they not been subjected to military life they probably would never had done that.

and just to clarify, there are insane and racist people who do join for the purpose of killing or knowing support for US imperialism.

no, i am not defending imperialism or the capitalist militaries of the world. what i am defending is the possibility for revolutionary activity among the working class lower ranks of the military.

but, fuck police. their position in society is that of constant oppression against the domestic working class. and yes, the imperialist armies also oppress the working class of other countries but you dont hear of fraggings or mutinies in the police force. also, having vets or soldiers supporting communists vocally and publicly helps to build class consciousness by shaking off that notion that all soldiers are jingos and what not.

[Psy]

It is because police is the only public service the bourgeoisie cares about. See key members of the bourgeoisie is class conscious and fully aware the proletariat will kill them if given a chance.

Also Detroit July 1967 and Paris May 1968 still gives the ruling class around the world nightmares, yes the uprisings were put down but not easily and they remind the ruling class even with armies of police and troops if enough workers declare war on them they'd be overwhelmed even in the heart of capitalism. This is why there is support from of some of the bourgeoisie to pacify the proletariat especially with cheap rhetoric about how the bourgeoisie state cares about the working class.

[AK]

It's big unions in bed with the capitalist class; what did you expect, a vanguard of the proletariat?

[ed miliband]

It's big unions in bed with the capitalist class; what did you expect, a vanguard of the proletariat?


I didn't really explain myself very well, I must admit, and you're right*. However - and perhaps I'm wrong - it always seemed to me that in most other countries, the organisations and people that make up the establishment Left are always much more critical and suspicious of the police than those on the Right.


*Although the RMT isn't really a "big union" (80,000 members).

[piet11111]

I didn't really explain myself very well, I must admit, and you're right*. However - and perhaps I'm wrong - it always seemed to me that in most other countries, the organisations and people that make up the establishment Left are always much more critical and suspicious of the police than those on the Right.


*Although the RMT isn't really a "big union" (80,000 members).

You can safely assume that any party that participates in bourgeois elections is pro-capitalism and anti-working class.
After that its up to those party's to prove you wrong.

[ed miliband]

You can safely assume that any party that participates in bourgeois elections is pro-capitalism and anti-working class.
After that its up to those party's to prove you wrong.

No offense, but what does that have to do with what I posted? A large amount of my posts on RevLeft have been outlining my issues with the Labour Party and social democracy in general.

[piet11111]

No offense, but what does that have to do with what I posted? A large amount of my posts on RevLeft have been outlining my issues with the Labour Party and social democracy in general.


it always seemed to me that in most other countries, the organisations and people that make up the establishment Left are always much more critical and suspicious of the police than those on the Right.

They may be verbally but in practice they are just as bad if not worse then right wing governments when it comes to strengthening the state.
Look at england under Labour they managed to turn london into a scene from 1984.

[Demogorgon]

The argument is made because it is almost impossible for the right to answer. They can either please their supporters with Thatcherite economics and upset them by not being seen to be pro-Police or they can do the opposite, either way, they cannot win. It is an effort to catch political opponents out. Don't read too much into it.

Incidentally I don't think comments about how great it would be if there were no police or whatever are very helpful. Complaints about the way police forces operate in Capitalist Society should not be confused with calls for no police altogether.