Animals in a Post-Revoltionary society

[Hexen]

I've been lately watching videos like this:

YuJXE8kFOnE

It made me wonder in a Post-Revolutionary society that we would be shutting down Zoos, Aquariums, Sea World, Discovery Cove, etc and putting wild animals back to their natural habitat where they belong since I'm been noticing that Capitalism not only exploits the working class but also animals as well which gave me a pure realization that this entire Capitalist system is based and it revolves around on the exploitation of everything.

Does anyone think this is the case?

[Invincible Summer]

I generally agree with what you're saying, but you're gonna get flamed. Just a warning.

The thing is that (good) zoos and aquariums don't just house animals for humans to gawk at. They do research and stuff too.

[Hexen]

Well another thing I noticed too is Circuses also exploit animals which also reflects this system Capitalism as well.

[HeyJustLooking]

Animals will be treated as what they are: Animals.

Animals are not human. They don't have a conscience, nor do they have feelings.

In a socialist society, people won't be dressing up their animals like humans and they won't be watching Disney movies with animals who speak and act like humans.

People will use animals for science research, as a source of food and for company as pets.

Animal rights belong to the populist right-wing.

[Tablo]

Animals will be treated as what they are: Animals.
Agree.


Animals are not human. They don't have a conscience, nor do they have feelings.
Don't think that is necessarily true.


In a socialist society, people won't be dressing up their animals like humans and they won't be watching Disney movies with animals who speak and act like humans.
Why not?


People will use animals for science research, as a source of food and for company as pets.
Of course


Animal rights belong to the populist right-wing.
lolwut?

[Hexen]

The thing is that (good) zoos and aquariums don't just house animals for humans to gawk at. They do research and stuff too.

I think I was wrong about the Zoos/Aquariums part since I do agree that animals should be used as scientific research and such.

[bailey_187]

Well another thing I noticed too is Circuses also exploit animals which also reflects this system Capitalism as well.

really? Seaworld extracts surplus value from Shamoo?

[Hexen]

really? Seaworld extracts surplus value from Shamoo?

Well my main point is that Circuses, Sea World, Discovery Cove reflects the the exploitative nature that the Capitalist system revolves around which I figure it will be non-existent in a Post-Revolutionary society.

[hatzel]

I've been somewhat involved in the animal rights movement, and protested against what I consider the unnecessary mistreatment of animals in certain circuses and in so-called 'factory' farming. However, I don't go along with the whole animal liberation idea, "let's not farm animals at all" and so on. Despite the fact that I don't consider animals as our 'equals', and don't think this is a healthy attitude (it's just as likely to make us treat humans as we now treat animals as the intended aim of making us treat animals as we now treat humans), I am opposed to the unnecessary cruelty we often bestow on animals...

[bailey_187]

Well my main point is that Circuses, Sea World, Discovery Cove reflects the the exploitative nature that the Capitalist system revolves which I figure won't be non-existent in a Post-Revolutionary society.

People watched animals perform tricks before capitalism though, so why cant we watch it after?

[Widerstand]

Animals are not human. They don't have a conscience, nor do they have feelings.

Correct part: Not all animals are human. All humans are animals though.
Incorrect part: Animals do not have feelings. The lack of consesus on whether or not they have them does not mean that they don't have them. There is plenty of data suggesting they have, however opinions seem to divert over how that data should be interpreted.

http://www.animalliberationfront.com/Philosophy/Morality/Speciesism/animalsfeelings.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emotion_in_animals
http://scienceray.com/biology/zoology/do-animals-have-feelings/
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15766890
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1170/is_2001_Sept-Oct/ai_77627988/?tag=content;col1
http://www.suite101.com/content/do-animals-experience-emotions-a121397


Animal rights belong to the populist right-wing.

I am really looking forward to you elaborating this connection.

[Magón]

I've been lately watching videos like this:

YuJXE8kFOnE

It made me wonder in a Post-Revolutionary society that we would be shutting down Zoos, Aquariums, Sea World, Discovery Cove, etc and putting wild animals back to their natural habitat where they belong since I'm been noticing that Capitalism not only exploits the working class but also animals as well which gave me a pure realization that this entire Capitalist system is based and it revolves around on the exploitation of everything.

Does anyone think this is the case?

I agree somewhat, but not all Zoos and Aquariums, like others have said already, exploit animals for public viewing, etc. They actually do serve a learning purpose, and I'm sure that you'll find some Zoos are actually used to properly monitor dying species, and help try to get their numbers back.


Animals will be treated as what they are: Animals.

I'm not PETA advocate, but people are Animals too, just FYI.


Animals are not human. They don't have a conscience, nor do they have feelings.

Um, no, you're absolutely wrong on that. Of course animals have a conscience and feelings. If they didn't, they couldn't live the ways they do, and act like they do. When an animal dies, those around it show signs of sadness and depression. It's been shown many times on animal shows, and in books. If an Elephant's baby dies, or a Ape's friend/family member dies, they show sadness and even depression. Saying animals have no conscience or feelings is ridiculous.


In a socialist society, people won't be dressing up their animals like humans and they won't be watching Disney movies with animals who speak and act like humans.

I don't see what Disney characters like Mickey Mouse, have to do with a Socialist Society? How does that hurt?


Animal rights belong to the populist right-wing.

Being an animal yourself, you have rights, so why shouldn't the family pet dog or cat? Or the Baboon? Or the Elephant? All animals deserve a right to live and be what they are in their natural habitat. Just because we use some of them for food, doesn't mean they're any less worth of living than we our. Animal Rights is far more left-wing than right.

[Kléber]

When all humans are liberated from wage-slavery, way more people will have the time and money to be sentimental vegetarians. There will probably be a gradual evolution toward "guilt-free" eating and "species equality" as more people in the socialist future make lifestyle choices that few humans can currently afford to under capitalism. However, as much as I love animals, animal rights have nothing to do with socialism and they can wait until after the revolution.

I'm all for Permanent Revolution and combining the struggle against capitalism with the struggles against imperialism, nationalism, racism, sexism, homophobia etc. But animal rights are where I draw the line politically (even though personally I don't eat meat). Animals are irrelevant to the fight between capital and labor and communists who take a strong animal-rights position will piss off a lot of workers who can't afford fake meat substitutes nor have the time to care.

If you can afford to avoid eating meat, that's nice, I don't either, but it's nothing more than a lifestyle choice. Ending the exploitation of animals is something we can worry about after the exploitation of labor has been abolished.

One area where animal rights intersect with the workers' struggle are the criminal actions of fast food chains and how they keep animals in filthy conditions which leads to filthy food for the workers who eat them. But as far as abolishing zoos goes, that's an ultraleft position to take at the present.

[Widerstand]

When all humans are liberated from wage-slavery, way more people will have the time and money to be sentimental vegetarians. There will probably be a gradual evolution toward "guilt-free" eating and "species equality" as more people make lifestyle choices that few humans can currently afford to. However, as much as I love animals, animal rights have nothing to do with socialism and they can wait until after the revolution.

I'm all for Permanent Revolution and combining the struggle against capitalism with the struggles against imperialism, nationalism, racism, sexism, homophobia etc. But animal rights are where I draw the line politically (even though personally I don't eat meat). Animals are irrelevant to the fight between capital and labor and communists who take a strong animal-rights position will piss off a lot of workers who can't afford fake meat substitutes nor have the time to care.

If you can afford to avoid eating meat, that's nice, I don't either, but it's nothing more than a lifestyle choice. Ending the exploitation of animals is something we can worry about after the exploitation of labor has been abolished.

One area where animal rights intersect with the workers' struggle are the criminal actions of fast food chains and how they keep animals in filthy conditions which leads to filthy food for the workers who eat them. But as far as abolishing zoos goes, that's an ultraleft position to take at the present.

I agree with everything said. I'm a "house" vegan myself, meaning I eat vegan whenever I can (eg. if I cook for myself, am at a vegan friend's place or in a vegan restaurant), but don't mind vegetarian food when I have to.

Though we should not ignore that there are plenty more intersections, for example, a lot of food produced in countries where large parts of the population suffer hunger is used to feed farm animals raised for meat production. Also, the work conditions in slaughterhouses are usually amongst the worst in any country.

[bcbm]

using the advanced scientific and technological power socialism will grant us, all animals will receive consciousness and be educated so that they, too, may be freed from their chains and live a life of infinite potentiality.

[the last donut of the night]

they're still gonna be in my tummy, yum yum yum

[hatzel]

Though we should not ignore that there are plenty more intersections, for example, a lot of food produced in countries where large parts of the population suffer hunger is used to feed farm animals raised for meat production.

I don't know if you've come across this article (http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/sep/06/meat-production-veganism-deforestation), or the book it mentions, but it seems to put forth a pretty convincing argument that the meat-production industry could easily be made much more efficient, with no detrimental effects for the animal. I'm sure this would also have a positive effect on farmers' profit margins, too, which can't really be considered a bad thing...

[Invincible Summer]

Animals will be treated as what they are: Animals.

In a socialist society, people won't be dressing up their animals like humans and they won't be watching Disney movies with animals who speak and act like humans.

People will use animals for science research, as a source of food and for company as pets.



Shit do I win the lottery in 5 years too? These predictions are astonishing!



Animal rights belong to the populist right-wing.
Please explain yourself. If anything, it's centrist liberals

[CommunityBeliever]

It made me wonder in a Post-Revolutionary society that we would be shutting down Zoos, Aquariums, Sea World, Discovery Cove, etc and putting wild animals back to their natural habitat where they belong since I'm been noticing that Capitalism not only exploits the working classOh fosho, we will get rid of all those things.

For example, in those dolphin parks we will replace the dolphins with robots (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animatronics):thumbup1:

That or we will just hook up people's brains to teh Matrix and let them view Dolphins there.


I'm been noticing that Capitalism not only exploits the working class but also animals as well which gave me a pure realization that this entire Capitalist system is based and it revolves around on the exploitation of everything.Sounds a little bit like veganarchism (http://www.revleft.com/vb/group.php?groupid=532)

That is very true though, capitalism unscrupulously exploits everything that it can to get a profit, the working class, the environment, animals, etc. It has reduced all the creatures in the Earth into mere property, and if the capitalists get their way some humans would be property too:


all creatures have been turned into property, the fishes in the water, the birds in the air, the plants on the earth; the creatures, too, must become free.

We will eliminate capitalism and replace it with a more ethical, environmentally sustainable, and efficient system.

Initially people will certainly continue to eat meat, use some fur, etc, however, under socialism there will be more environmentally friendly conditions for the animals and we will use more ethical slaughtering methods like controlled atmospheric killing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Controlled_atmosphere_killing) to kill the animals painlessly. They will put into an environment such that they feel a very minimum of pain.

So animals will immediately be better off, however, it shouldn't stop there, vegans in post-revolutionary society should constantly work for animals to convince the community to use more ethical methods, and to use technologies such as Animatronics and genetically engineered vat foods to accomplish the tasks the community was looking to animal based products for.

[bailey_187]

I dont give a fuck about animals or ecology. Come at me hippies.

[bricolage]

I dont give a fuck about animals or ecology. Come at me hippies.
come the revolution you are getting fake blood thrown at you.

[hatzel]

So animals will immediately be better off, however, it shouldn't stop there, vegans in post-revolutionary society should constantly work for animals to convince the community to use more ethical methods, and to use technologies such as Animatronics and genetically engineered vat foods to accomplish the tasks the community was looking to animal based products for.
I would suggest that the intention should be aimed more at changing people's animal-consumption habits than improving the methods used in acquiring / processing these animals.

Take this example...many families, even those who aren't particularly well-off, will eat meat every day. In fact, they might eat it more than once a day, with a bacon sandwich for breakfast, one of those self-contained pots of chicken pasta salad for lunch and spaghetti bolognese for dinner. This would actually be considered a pretty normal diet, and this could even be repeated every day without anybody thinking it was weird. So people today eat meat 7 days a week, and many at approaching 21 different meals. Or, let's say at least half of meals eaten in Europe country today include meat, that's not a totally ludicrous suggestion. Here in the UK, that means 90 million meat-meals are eaten every day. Or 630 million in a week.

Compare this to our grandparent's generation. Or their grandparents. Before capitalism decided to make meat as cheap as possible, a feat achieved at the expense of the animal, the common person couldn't afford to eat meat every day. Instead, meat would be the reserve of the Sunday meal, with perhaps the leftovers eaten the next day. Let's say that there is enough meat left on the joint for two more meals, after the original one, just to push it as far as we can. If we were to live in this way today, the UK would eat meat at 120 million meals a week. That's about 20% of the current rate. If we factor in the fact that people will then have to buy something else to eat instead of meat, rather than just taking the meat out and eating what's left of the meal, this means that meat prices could probably quadruple, and the weekly food bill of the average family would be no different than it had been eating cheap meat regularly. More importantly, though, it would quarter the 'turnover' of animals, the number killed etc.

At the moment, when people have an expectation for meat to be cheap enough to be eaten every day, multiple times a day, factory farming and other money-saving techniques are almost mandatory. How else could these demands continue to be met? Capitalists will tell you, 'oh, but if we don't farm like this, and we farm in a more traditional and animal-friendly manner, meat prices could quadruple!' Well, that fits in to my system pretty well, if you ask me. Changing the way that people slaughter the animals is one thing, but I would suggest it's of secondary importance. Reducing meat consumption to once a week, changing the attitude towards meat as a commodity, I consider that to be the real stumbling block, the obstacle that really must be overcome before anything else can even be approached. And this applies equally to pre- and post-revolutionary society,

And, if that weren't enough, that would probably be a big public-health victory, too. All that talk about how bad it is to eat red meat...no, it's not bad for the body to eat red meat, it's bad for the body to eat it in the totally unnatural quantities that we seem to in the modern day. In addition to this, I think anybody who has bought meat (or any product) at a farmers market, from a traditional livestock keeper will confirm that it is far superior in quality to the same cut in a supermarket. You get what you pay for, I suppose...

[scarletghoul]

I love animals and think that in a secure socialist/communist society there would definitely be improvements in treatment of animals and technological advances (for example flesh could be grown in labs or whatever instead of raising and slaughtering so many animals, this would be nicer and more efficient) and bla bla bla i could go on and on about this ideal

However, the primary goal must be human progress, and for now and the foreseeable future that means class struggle. On when socialism/communism is secure and people are liberated can we really start putting our efforts into helping the animals. Only then will most people really start to give a fuck about animals. This is why there was no animal liberation in USSR, PRC, Cuba, etc, because although they were socialist they were still in the midst of intense class struggle, both domestically and internationally, and the people were far from fully liberated.

In other words we must free our species first, then we can worry about the rest.

[CommunityBeliever]

I would suggest that the intention should be aimed more at changing people's animal-consumption habits than improving the methods used in acquiring / processing these animals.

In an ideal world you could just use logic and reason to convince everyone to change their irrational consumption habits. However, there will always be a large group of people who want to eat meat.

So to be ethical we should do whatever we can to improve conditions for those animals which are unfortunately victim to these conditions.

But more so then that we should work at developing vat grown meat that is grown without slaughtering or killing any livestock at all. If we develop vat grown meat and compete with the existing slaughtered meat, we can probably eliminate 95% of the livestock industry and which point we can deliver the final blow without much resistance and just make it illegal to farm any animals.

-1_YsfXMnjY
The environmental problem is extraordinarily difficult problem to solve using livestock grown meat, however, vat grown meat won't have all those problems as it will just be grown in a laboratory in a far more efficient manner. And it will be much healthier for consumers too as there won't be animals swimming in their own shit.

If we took out a decent amount of funding that is being spent on stupid things like the war industry and spent on building these vat laboratories we could probably gradually eliminate meat in the next 10-50 years or so, so this is a very immediate and practical solution.


the primary goal must be human progressI would more specifically define my goal to be technological progress and social progress to make it so that said technology is applied towards the hedonist goal of satisfying all animals, including humans.

[ckaihatsu]

we can probably eliminate 95% of the livestock industry and which point we can deliver the final blow without much resistance


- Will resistance be futile?

- How will we protect ourselves from vat-grown meat once it takes over?

- Will I be able to use my bolt gun on *both* kinds of meat?

- Will livestock feel at all *threatened*, or will it be able to "play nice" with the vat-grown meat?

- Is there any way I can be sure that my vat-grown meat is free-range and grass-fed?

- Can I splice together different *kinds* of vat-grown meat to create my *own* blend of Frankensteinian deliciousness?


x D

[anticap]

Animals are not human. They don't have a conscience, nor do they have feelings.

These:


Correct part: Not all animals are human. All humans are animals though.
Incorrect part: Animals do not have feelings. The lack of consesus on whether or not they have them does not mean that they don't have them.


When an animal dies, those around it show signs of sadness and depression. ... Saying animals have no conscience or feelings is ridiculous.

[Sixiang]

I've been somewhat involved in the animal rights movement, and protested against what I consider the unnecessary mistreatment of animals in certain circuses and in so-called 'factory' farming. However, I don't go along with the whole animal liberation idea, "let's not farm animals at all" and so on. Despite the fact that I don't consider animals as our 'equals', and don't think this is a healthy attitude (it's just as likely to make us treat humans as we now treat animals as the intended aim of making us treat animals as we now treat humans), I am opposed to the unnecessary cruelty we often bestow on animals...
That's pretty much how I feel about the whole animal rights issue.

I'm not a vegetarian, but I definitely think that animals should be treated ethically. I'm not extremely well-versed on the subject of animal rights, but I think that it might be a good idea to adopt a similar system of ethical treatment of animals as the American Psychological Association has for experiments regarding animals (scientists that want to conduct research and experiments on animals have to appeal to a board and prove that they are going to treat the animals ethically and for a practical reason, which is then reviewed and decided on whether or not they may get them). I learned about this in a Psychology class I took. I could have that name wrong and maybe some details wrong. For the life of me, I cannot remember the name of this guy that sparked all of this. He conducted an experiment on some volunteers, telling them it was about learning and punishment, but in actuality it was about obedience, but he didn't tell the volunteers. I think that that whole thing sparked this wave of "ethics" in psychology. Anyone with any further information can probably elaborate better.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

If we really want to make the planet a better place for non-human organisms, one effective way would be for technological society to completely urbanise and grow its food as close as possible to the cities. This would free up a hell of a lot of land which can be converted into natural parks, nature reserves or simply left to go wild. It should also give indigenous peoples and those seeking to establish small self-sufficient communities room to maneuver.

Of course, the above pre-supposes cities built to serve human needs, not those of the internal combustion engine.

[Bubbles]

I love Zoo's. Hope i can bring my eventual children after the revolution to watch some animals.

[Die Rote Fahne]

Animal rights are fine and dandy.

But, if it starts to distract from the bigger issue of class struggle, it must be put aside.

As socialists, our policies should reflect a secularist nature. Within that, is protecting mother earth.

[Tavarisch_Mike]

I love Zoo's. Hope i can bring my eventual children after the revolution to watch some animals.

Like fascist pigs and black leg cow-ards.;)

[DaComm]

I've been lately watching videos like this:

YuJXE8kFOnE

It made me wonder in a Post-Revolutionary society that we would be shutting down Zoos, Aquariums, Sea World, Discovery Cove, etc and putting wild animals back to their natural habitat where they belong since I'm been noticing that Capitalism not only exploits the working class but also animals as well which gave me a pure realization that this entire Capitalist system is based and it revolves around on the exploitation of everything.

Does anyone think this is the case?

That’s very interesting stuff you've shown. Obviously, the actions going on at places like that Discovery Cove and likely other Zoo's is really devaluing certain species and makes a mockery of animals. Granted however, seeing as the going-ons of the zoo post-revolution will not be dictatorially-run, and will allow all to have a voice, I question as to whether or not people who devote their career to helping animals will allow this highly-unsatisfactory treatment of animals will continue. Also I should mention that (just as a refresher) that zoo's aren’t meant to be scoffed at and have peanuts thrown at them; they also serve environmentally-friendly conservation purposes and potentially human-helpful actions like easier research (many medicines draw their origin to fish, for example) and for personal enlightenment and for the fun of it. I don't see why zoos and aquariums can’t exist in a post-capitalist world.

[bcbm]

I dont give a fuck about animals or ecology. Come at me hippies.

stupid

[Black Sheep]

Animals in a Post-Revoltionary society
http://www.zastavki.com/pictures/1280x1024/2009/Food_Meat_and_barbecue_Assorted_meat_012322_.jpg

[bailey_187]

As socialists, our policies should reflect a secularist nature. Within that, is protecting mother earth.

So replace god with whatever this "motherd earth" thing is? all hail Gaia!!!

[AK]

Well my main point is that Circuses, Sea World, Discovery Cove reflects the the exploitative nature that the Capitalist system revolves around which I figure it will be non-existent in a Post-Revolutionary society.
I'd like to point out that exploitation has a specific meaning in a Marxist context.

[AK]

So replace god with whatever this "motherd earth" thing is? all hail Gaia!!!
Or Mother Earth could be a collective name for the environment and all the organisms on the planet...

[bailey_187]

Or Mother Earth could be a collective name for the environment and all the organisms on the planet...

So its everything? So we should "protect" everyting? From what?

[AK]

So its everything? So we should "protect" everyting? From what?
Hailtothethief was not speaking from the perspective that mother earth was a deity, btw.

They were of the opinion that we should protect life and the world around us from the possible negative consequences of actions we make.

[Kléber]

Please nobody quote the meat pic because it is hard enough for some people to have to see that just once.

[AK]

Please nobody quote the meat pic because it is hard enough for some people to have to see that just once.
And it is also a terrible waste of bandwidth.

[Bilan]

So its everything? So we should "protect" everyting? From what?

Don't be thick. Yes, it is supposed to cover everything on earth. Hence, mother 'earth (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth)'.
And yes, we should assess the consequences of all our actions on the environment. Why shouldn't we?
What does "protect" entail? When you say "protect" do you mean "abstain from utilising"?

And from what? Gee. I fucking wonder. Panda bears, dipshit. Haven't you seen what they do to bamboo?
http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ3mWv2wURhLl_7A2hGOW6SEduBcC-L1Qo1oKd7CdR0vVp1EQ8&t=1&usg=__Du-zgIoY7JTgm5FsLxpTQyjtgIM=

[#FF0000]

Yeah human needs come first but there's no reason to harm animals when there's no reason to.

On top of that, the amount of land needed for pastures is just beyond reason for some stupid fucking cow.

[ckaihatsu]

I learned about this in a Psychology class I took. I could have that name wrong and maybe some details wrong. For the life of me, I cannot remember the name of this guy that sparked all of this. He conducted an experiment on some volunteers, telling them it was about learning and punishment, but in actuality it was about obedience, but he didn't tell the volunteers. I think that that whole thing sparked this wave of "ethics" in psychology. Anyone with any further information can probably elaborate better.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiment





[meat pic]



Meat porn. (I like the fishnets on *that* one...!)





What does "protect" entail? [...] And from what? Gee. I fucking wonder. Panda bears, dipshit. Haven't you seen what they do to bamboo?


Damn you, pandas!!! What has bamboo ever done to yoooooooooooooooooooooouuuuuuu...!!!!


---


Also, on the thread's topic, who'll the *animals* have left to oppress once *they* become liberated and empowered???


(8 p


= /

[Crimson Commissar]

Please nobody quote the meat pic because it is hard enough for some people to have to see that just once.
Oh you must be fucking joking

[Hexen]

Well this thread isn't really about animal rights per say (which however can extend to that point) but rather a observation of capitalist society and pointing out traits/symptoms how the entire system revolves around the exploitation of everything which the animals are just one example among many others and how they would be otherwise different in a Post-Revolutionary society.

[ckaihatsu]

- Hey! Can't the Brawny guy get a little privacy during his off-modeling hours???

- So *this* is what we're fighting for...!


http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/bf85bf80ef.jpg

[chegitz guevara]

There will be a Congress of Animal Soviets who will put forward a list of demands to the human race! Soon the animal revolution will rise up to overthrow their human oppressors!

The best thing about this war is we can eat the enemy fallen and any prisoners we take.

[Devrim]

I love Zoo's. Hope i can bring my eventual children after the revolution to watch some animals.

I love the Zoo too although the last time I went I felt a bit sad. The woman I went with said that it was so nice to see the genuine childish excitement on my face as we were going*, and so sad it disappear after we got there.

The reason is that our local zoo is particularly poor and the animals are in terrible conditions.

That doesn't mean that we should do away with zoos though. It means that we need better zoos. Any sort of communism I cam imagine would at least be able to make a decent zoo with semi-reasonable conditions for animals.


The thing is that (good) zoos and aquariums don't just house animals for humans to gawk at. They do research and stuff too.

What is wrong with people looking at animals. By all means we should try to make zoos more comfortable for animals, but I think that people enjoy seeing a 'happy animal', which has at least some room to move rather than a lion pacing around a tiny cage.

The point is that people come first, and I don't think that there is anything wrong with wanting to see animals.



Meat porn. (I like the fishnets on *that* one...!)

About 25 years ago when ı was a postman, a packet came open in our office and a magazine came out called 'Pigs in Stockings'. It was just that.

Devrim

* I am a middle aged man

[gorillafuck]

Putting an animal that has grown up in a zoo back in the wild would cause it to, um, die.

[Invincible Summer]

What is wrong with people looking at animals. By all means we should try to make zoos more comfortable for animals, but I think that people enjoy seeing a 'happy animal', which has at least some room to move rather than a lion pacing around a tiny cage.

The point is that people come first, and I don't think that there is anything wrong with wanting to see animals.



Don't get me wrong, I understand that people have a natural curiousity and want to look at exotic creatures. But the OP was suggesting that zoos are only good for housing animals in terrible conditions so people can stare at them, and I was simply stating that that is not the only function.

[ckaihatsu]

There will be a Congress of Animal Soviets who will put forward a list of demands to the human race! Soon the animal revolution will rise up to overthrow their human oppressors!


Um, I just got word, through, um, telepathic channels (heh) that the Animal Kingdom has unanimously decided to make *me* their (heh) Alpha Male, so, hey, it's been a blast and everything, fellow humans, but, uh, I've decided to be a-- (heh-heh) big fish in a small pond, so just, uh, go nuke yourselves or something and I'll still be Leader of the Pack over flora *and* fauna...! Just call me "Beastmaster"...! (You wouldn't be the first...!)





The best thing about this war is we can eat the enemy fallen and any prisoners we take.


Oh, shit, so that means I started too early -- ???





About 25 years ago when ı was a postman, a packet came open in our office and a magazine came out called 'Pigs in Stockings'. It was just that.


And I thought *my* postman was cool....

[ckaihatsu]

Eeeen pawst-rah-vow-loo-shan so-sigh-uh-tee animals eat YOU!


x D

[scarletghoul]

http://images.eonline.com/eol_images/Entire_Site/2010813//300.ab.Lady.Gaga.091310.jpg

[AK]

http://images.eonline.com/eol_images/Entire_Site/2010813//300.ab.Lady.Gaga.091310.jpg
http://www.stcloudstate.edu/atwood/images/grill.jpg

[Black Sheep]

And it is also a terrible waste of bandwidth.
Not my fault that Revleft lacks a spoiler tag.:sleep:

[hatzel]

There will be a Congress of Animal Soviets who will put forward a list of demands to the human race! Soon the animal revolution will rise up to overthrow their human oppressors!
Didn't that already happen? I remember reading it in a book once. Apparently all animals are equal. But some are more equal than others. I decided to base my opinion of animals entirely on this book. Therefore, pigs are bastards. I think this is a fair assessment. Sausages, anyone?


The best thing about this war is we can eat the enemy fallen and any prisoners we take.
Isn't that...kind of...against the Geneva Convention? We'd better rewrite that one before the revolution...


Protected persons are entitled, in all circumstances, to respect for their persons, their honour, their family rights, their religious convictions and practices, and their manners and customs. They shall at all times be humanely treated, and shall be protected especially against all acts of violence or threats thereof and against insults and public curiosity. Women shall be especially protected against any attack on their honour, in particular against rape, enforced prostitution, or any form of indecent assault. Without prejudice to the provisions relating to their state of health, age and sex, all protected persons shall be treated with the same consideration by the Party to the conflict in whose power they are, without any adverse distinction based, in particular, on race, religion or political opinion[...unless they're tasty, then you can just eat them, bun the rest]
I can see this being ratified, yeah...

[AK]

Not my fault that Revleft lacks a spoiler tag.:sleep:
erm

sup black sheep. this is a spoiler tag. just do "[ spoil ]" and "[ /spoil ]" without spaces.

[Black Sheep]

AKhttp://wheelsports.files.wordpress.com/2008/02/jesus.jpg