New Member Trying to Figure Some Things Out- Help?

[Sixiang]

Hello people of revleft,

I am a new member to the site. I have some questions/comments/concerns about some things mostly regarding socialism and communism. Thus, I am mainly directing these questions to any Marxists, Communists, Socialists, whatever have you. Or, even if you aren't one of those and you just happen to be well versed on that sort of theory, then you can probably help me out.

I'll start by explaining that I pretty much didn't start classifying myself as a Socialist until around March/April of this year. For a little while I was mainly classifying myself as a democratic socialist (or is it social democrat?). I believed that capitalism was wrong (to put it simply) and that the best way to bring about socialism was by the slow and painful process of educating people and then using the governmental system to vote socialism into power, so to speak. However, I was thinking mostly in the terms of "western democracy" at this point. I wasn't really looking much beyond America, Canada, the UK or what have you. However, I have broadened my scope as of late and see that many people still live like it's the 17th century (I was a sheltered child). I have dived deeper into "Marxist" theory as of late and find myself agreeing with almost everything I read that Marx and Engels have written or said. That being said, I guess I have a problem not being able to apply what was going on at that time to what has happened since then. I feel like there is just so much to learn and so little time for me to learn it all. It can be daunting to try to learn all of this.

So, some of my major questions regarding "the revolution", communism, Marxism, socialism, and all that have to do with what is actually going to happen. I can easily see short term things. I see that something in society is bad, so I think about what needs to be done to fix it, but then I can't really picture what will come after that. One of my major problems of being able to wrap my mind around is what the world is going to look like during and after the revolution takes place. I am so used to some things that I can't think about how they are going to be in a new system. I will try to explain further:

I imagine that the communist society will be this world with no class division. There will be no upper, middle, and lower classes. There will be no racism, sexism, homophobia, what have you. No "I am better than you" ideology. I also imagine this absence of being always afraid of a murder, or a rapist, or a burglar hurting you. I imagine that people will all be friends and live in community happily. I imagine people smiling at each other and being completely honest and open about themselves, perhaps calling each other "friend" or "comrade" or some other way to show love. I also imagine no grumbling about work. I imagine people saying "Okay, I will go do this work to help out my friends who are helping me out in return." And work won't be that backbreaking that it isn't really something to complain too much about anyways. I imagine other things like the absence of marriage, organized religions, lots of violence, greed, selfishness, distrust, embarrassment, discrimination, or anything else that really puts us down as human beings and keeps us from being good to each other and ourselves.

However, there comes a problem with my vision of this world. Some of the specifics aren't really figured out for me. How will work be decided? Will there still be "bosses" in the workplace? Not that the managers will make more money, but that there is someone who's job is to just make sure everyone is doing everything right. I imagine the workers in a specific field all getting together to elect some person from them who has good leadership and organization qualities to sort of act as an overseer. Would this exist? Or will everything be decided by the mass? If so, how can you guarantee that direct democracy will not leave out minority groups? Will there still be representatives that are elected? Or will everything be decided by popular vote? How will laws be made? Will there even be laws? Will it even be necessary to have them?

I also imagine this world being very agricultural and industrial for some reason. I mostly imagine long fields of crops for feeding the people, the landscape dotted with wind turbines and solar panels for electricity to light the buildings. And then huge rows of factories all producing clothes and other things for people. But what about all of this tech-savvy stuff? What about video games and televisions and the computers like what I am typing this message on right now? These things aren't necessarily needs for people. All we really need is nourishment and warmth. As in, I'm looking at that whole "each according to their needs" things. So everyone makes enough food to feed everyone, and water is purified to give to everyone, and clothes are made to warm people up in the cold weather, and heaters are put into buildings to warm them up as well. Obviously there are other needs like sewage and hygiene products and lots of other stuff that I'm forgetting. But what about all of these "entertainment" items? They aren't really needs, but then why should we get rid of them? How will they be produced? Should they be treated as needs? Should everyone get a computer? Should everyone get a television? Or maybe there would be some sort of waiting list that you could sign up on for some item and then that item would be made specially for you. That way there is no surplus. But then there is a waiting period for everything. Sometimes things are needed immediately.

It's all really confusing for me, as you may be able to tell. I just don't know what the world will look like. I understand that I hate capitalism and any sort of idea of one person being somehow worth more than another. And I understand that I want workers to be able to control their work places, that everybody should get everything they need to survive, that hierarchy is unfair. I think that food, water, clothes, a place to live, education, books, medical care, transportation, basically anything that can be commoditized should be free for all to use. But how is this going to happen? I believe it, but I can't seem to make it real. I keep seeing things that contradict each other and I can't figure it out.

So, I'm asking for some help. If anyone can explain to me how the world might look when the revolution is going on and when it is over with, I would appreciate it so much. How are all of these things going to work out? How will things be organized? Will life kind of look like it does for those upper world people in H.G. Wells' Time Machine? Will it be like the society that George Orwell describes existed for a brief time in Homage to Catalonia (minus the war going on)? Better yet, does anyone have any books that may describe what the "utopia" may be like? Any sort of analogies to compare to?

Thanks for taking the time to read this, if you did read it, and I appreciate any feedback. Please pardon any grammatical errors I may have. I don't really want to edit it right now.

Signed,
a Socialist that's always ready to learn

[noble brown]

very good komrade. i say so because you are thinking this stuff through. you're not just subscribing to the dogma, left or right.

remember though, youre asking for specifics on something that hasnt come to pass in contemporary history. its easy to get caught up in these type of mental exercises but the reality is much more sobering. these specifics you ask for cant be reliably answered until after the fact. capitalism or feudalism were not paradigms that occurred overnight. these were all centuries in the making and so it will be w/ communism. my point being that its nearly impossible to answer what exactly it will look like (unless you wanna be dogmatic) but its more important to focus on the here and now. the here and now is that we know a major social, political and economical change must be enacted. revolution is unnegotiable. any other thoughts are respectable exercises but ultimately fruitless. we must stop putting the cart before the horse and get to unity of action.

basically no real progressive can answer your question w/ any certainty, cause its unk. we can exercise ourselves ideologically in these matters but we gotta focus on what we do know for sure. capitalism is killing us and our world (as if the two were separate) unity under a black an red banner is the only answer we can know will provide a substantial answer.

[Revolution starts with U]

The revolution and revolutionary society will look like whatever it looks like when the majority of people decide to stop being self-righteous, stop buying into the rat race, and start being socialists.

[Adil3tr]

However, there comes a problem with my vision of this world. Some of the specifics aren't really figured out for me.


How will work be decided? By the workers and their councils


Will there still be "bosses" in the workplace?No, workers will control themselves. If work is less grinding and they produce for themselves and their community, they should be fine.


If so, how can you guarantee that direct democracy will not leave out minority groups? There wouldn't be real distinctions that can create minority groups.


Will there still be representatives that are elected? maybe, but by the workers like the original soviets in the October revolution, or we could simply have a total democracy. I would prefer that myself.


Or will everything be decided by popular vote? For the big issues, that is essential.


How will laws be made?
Will there even be laws? By vote if any need to be made. but with most violence and conflict gone, it would be up t the local community to make the few remaining laws.


I also imagine this world being very agricultural and industrial for some reason. I mostly imagine long fields of crops for feeding the people,Not much more than now, just a little more spread out because it would need to be decentralized to some degree for sustainability.


] What about video games and televisions and the computers like what I am typing this message on right now? These things aren't necessarily needs for people. All we really need is nourishment and warmth. As in, I'm looking at that whole "each according to their needs" things. So everyone makes enough food to feed everyone, and water is purified to give to everyone, and clothes are made to warm people up in the cold weather, and heaters are put into buildings to warm them up as well. Obviously there are other needs like sewage and hygiene products and lots of other stuff that I'm forgetting.
But what about all of these "entertainment" items? They aren't really needs, but then why should we get rid of them? How will they be produced? Should they be treated as needs? Should everyone get a computer? Should everyone get a television? Or maybe there would be some sort of waiting list that you could sign up on for some item and then that item would be made specially for you. That way there is no surplus. But then there is a waiting period for everything. Sometimes things are needed immediately.VERY IMPORTANT! We Marxists have something called post scarcity economics. See, since we already have capitalism, we can progress, rather than just reorganize. We don't produce exactly to need, we produce far beyond demand. That way we can very soon knock money out completely, and undercut anyone who wants to be a capitalist. Imagine being able to simply walk into a store, pull something off a shelf, and go home. Since there is more than enough for everyone, theres no problem. With entertainment, we could all have computers whose parts are removable, then we can just replace them when better parts are made. Movies games and stuff we could just download and have large art departments making these things. Surpluses are good, and the waiting list would KILL the revolution.


Will it be like the society that George Orwell describes existed for a brief time in Homage to Catalonia (minus the war going on)?In the beginning yes, but later on it would be like that but everyone would have total opportunity, and the world would become hyper developed (In a good way).


Better yet, does anyone have any books that may describe what the "utopia" may be like? Any sort of analogies to compare to?Marx-". . . as soon as the distribution of labour comes into being, each man has a particular, exclusive sphere of activity, which is forced upon him and from which he cannot escape. He is a hunter, a fisherman, a shepherd, or a critical critic, and must remain so if he does not want to lose his means of livelihood; while in communist society, where nobody has one exclusive sphere of activity but each can become accomplished in any branch he wishes, society regulates the general production and thus makes it possible for me to do one thing today and another tomorrow, to hunt in the morning, fish in the afternoon, rear cattle in the evening, criticise after dinner, just as I have a mind, without ever becoming hunter, fisherman, shepherd or critic."

Keep Reading Comrade!

PS. If you're are still confused, ask more questions and I'll do my best to help. It is possible comrade, you'll be surprised how much sense it actually makes as you learn more.

[CommunityBeliever]

If so, how can you guarantee that direct democracy will not leave out minority groups?Nobody can guarantee this!

If you have the rule of a minority you cannot guarantee that other minorities will be protected, and if you have the rule of a majority you can't guarantee that either.

As long as humans are ruling over society there is the worry that they will agree to do something in the name of selfishness and ignorance. The only solution I see to this problem is to put robots in power. Robots do not have greed or any selfish concerns, and they will be able to instantly access the full breadth of knowledge and evidence in each of their decisions, so they will make for far better governors.

Until then though, implement a majoritarian democracy and if any minority groups are oppressed get them to organize and fight for their rights


Or will everything be decided by popular vote?

That is pretty much what I would like to see. There will be a group that votes on what to do in the workplace, a group for the county, for the entire country, etc...

I would use the Internet to make it so people can quickly agree on decisions, something like ubuntu brainstorm (http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/). And one of my ideas was actually that instead of voting over and over again on issues, you will just put your beliefs into a form and the computer will decide policy using that data.


But what about all of these "entertainment" items? They aren't really needs, but then why should we get rid of them? How will they be produced?

We shouldn't get rid of entertainment items, seeing as they are entertaining I think people will want to create them, and if there is something about creating them that is really cumbersome we will create the framework to make such things easy.


Should everyone get a computer?

Everyone will be given a laptop with Internet connectivity, and their will be a local server that does most processing.

[Victory]

A revolution in any country will be bloody. Revolution cannot come about through peaceful means, nor will it come about without a vanguard leading the path to Communism.

With that said, a Revolution in Britain for example, Although there would be increased democracy, and class division would no longer exist, the standards of living for the people, including the working class would radically decrease.
At this present time, the people in Britain are living above the value of labour, due to how almost all productive forces have been shipped to the third world, which has made material conditions for the people living in Britain improve.
The vast majority of people in Third World countries benefit from child exploitation and the rape and pillage of the third world. And also to a large extent, much of the working class accept this, because it's in their material interests to accept it.

I for one don't believe a Socialist Revolution will happen in a country such as Britain without the people living below the value of labour, like they do in the third world.
It's not in the material interests of people in the First World countries to have a Socialist Revolution, because the living standards of the vast majority of people would decrease - And if a Revolution did happen, much of the population would soon call for the restoration of Capitalism, because the material conditions were better greater while living in a Capitalist society.

To summarize, to the contrary of First World Trotskyists, I argue that all hope for Socialism hinges on the successes of Revolution in third world countries, and not in First World countries.

[AK]

if you have the rule of a majority you can't guarantee that either.
Indeed. But when we take into account the reasons for social discrimination and economic oppression of sexes and ethnicities, we realise that it has only ever been done for the benefit of a ruling class in some way. Seeking full social equality, communism is the antithesis of discrimination. The chances of the success of the working class to overthrow the capitalist system rest on internationalism and class unity. When these sentiments become widespread throughout the workers (which is one of the prerequisites for any communist social revolution), any remaining reactionaries in a post-revolutionary society would find that it would be very hard for their bigoted ambitions to materialise.

In short, a socialist society has a very little chance of achieving a "tyranny of the majority" within the context of social discrimination.

[Rosa Lichtenstein]

V:


A revolution in any country will be bloody. Revolution cannot come about through peaceful means, nor will it come about without a vanguard leading the path to Communism.

In a genuine proletarian revolution, the violence will come from the counter-revolution, not the workers.

[CommunityBeliever]

In short, a socialist society has a very little chance of achieving a "tyranny of the majority" within the context of social discrimination.

Good point comrade.

I think the propaganda about "tyranny of the majority" has effected me a bit too much :cool:

[Sixiang]

Thank you everyone who responded. Your answers all gave some helpful insight, and I most certainly will continue to read to try to understand. I have a few responses to what was said that I will try to express:


very good komrade. i say so because you are thinking this stuff through. you're not just subscribing to the dogma, left or right.
That is one thing I am afraid of doing: becoming dogmatic.


remember though, youre asking for specifics on something that hasnt come to pass in contemporary history. its easy to get caught up in these type of mental exercises but the reality is much more sobering. these specifics you ask for cant be reliably answered until after the fact. capitalism or feudalism were not paradigms that occurred overnight. these were all centuries in the making and so it will be w/ communism. my point being that its nearly impossible to answer what exactly it will look like (unless you wanna be dogmatic) but its more important to focus on the here and now. the here and now is that we know a major social, political and economical change must be enacted. revolution is unnegotiable. any other thoughts are respectable exercises but ultimately fruitless. we must stop putting the cart before the horse and get to unity of action.

basically no real progressive can answer your question w/ any certainty, cause its unk. we can exercise ourselves ideologically in these matters but we gotta focus on what we do know for sure. capitalism is killing us and our world (as if the two were separate) unity under a black an red banner is the only answer we can know will provide a substantial answer.
So I guess these things will be better figured out once the time comes to do so?


The revolution and revolutionary society will look like whatever it looks like when the majority of people decide to stop being self-righteous, stop buying into the rat race, and start being socialists.
That seems about right, but how long it is going to take for that to happen is another problem.


There wouldn't be real distinctions that can create minority groups.
What about sexual orientations, genders, skin colors, mentally handicapped people? Or will these divisions be eradicated?


VERY IMPORTANT! We Marxists have something called post scarcity economics. See, since we already have capitalism, we can progress, rather than just reorganize. We don't produce exactly to need, we produce far beyond demand. That way we can very soon knock money out completely, and undercut anyone who wants to be a capitalist. Imagine being able to simply walk into a store, pull something off a shelf, and go home. Since there is more than enough for everyone, theres no problem. With entertainment, we could all have computers whose parts are removable, then we can just replace them when better parts are made. Movies games and stuff we could just download and have large art departments making these things. Surpluses are good, and the waiting list would KILL the revolution.
That is a very interesting concept. I guess I sort of assumed that any overabundance of something was kind of a bad thing because I associated it with capitalists making profits. Is that idea outlined specifically in any of Marx's works that I could check out?


Marx-". . . as soon as the distribution of labour comes into being, each man has a particular, exclusive sphere of activity, which is forced upon him and from which he cannot escape. He is a hunter, a fisherman, a shepherd, or a critical critic, and must remain so if he does not want to lose his means of livelihood; while in communist society, where nobody has one exclusive sphere of activity but each can become accomplished in any branch he wishes, society regulates the general production and thus makes it possible for me to do one thing today and another tomorrow, to hunt in the morning, fish in the afternoon, rear cattle in the evening, criticise after dinner, just as I have a mind, without ever becoming hunter, fisherman, shepherd or critic."
That's an interesting quote. What's the source of that? But I still have one question in regards to that: what about "jobs" that require much more intense study and preparation? Medical doctors is an easy example for me to think of. How long to do people go to medical school? How can you just be a fisherman one day and a doctor the next? Will there still be some jobs that will require some distinction? Or can even that be a job that anyone can do?


Keep Reading Comrade!
My hope is that I will never stop.


PS. If you're are still confused, ask more questions and I'll do my best to help. It is possible comrade, you'll be surprised how much sense it actually makes as you learn more.
That's something I am finding more and more as I read and study this stuff. Getting into these "revolutionary" ideas has really changed my entire outlook on life.


I would use the Internet to make it so people can quickly agree on decisions, something like ubuntu brainstorm. And one of my ideas was actually that instead of voting over and over again on issues, you will just put your beliefs into a form and the computer will decide policy using that data.
That is a very interesting idea and could probably work.


A revolution in any country will be bloody. Revolution cannot come about through peaceful means, nor will it come about without a vanguard leading the path to Communism.
Does it really have to be? Is it really impossible for the people to have a massive shift of consciousness so that things could change just because we decide upon it and not because a small group of people can win a war to take over? I mean, if the only way that capitalism can end and communism can happen is by a violent revolution, then I will not oppose it, but I just want to make sure that there is no other way. Obviously, I do recognize that there will be those of the bourgeoisie and those that protect them that will not give up the system and they might fight back for a little while, but does it really have to be like how it was in China, Cuba, the USSR, etc. Not that I'm saying that I really think that those revolutions did truly bring about communism, because I don't think they did.

I guess that brings me onto the topic of how the revolution should happen. Should it be like what happened in those countries I mentioned? I keep hearing from people that communism supposedly can't happen until capitalism reaches its limit or something. Then does that mean that I'm supposed to just sit back and wait for it to collapse? And if so, then why did the relatively undeveloped nations of China and Russia try to skip that stage and go straight to socialism? If capitalism will naturally fade into socialism which will fade into communism, then what's the point of all of this organizing? If it's going to happen anyway, then why are we supposed to fight now? I am interested in Lenin, Mao, Castro, and all of these people, but I am torn between what they believed and what others have said. What if everyone just wanted all of this change right now? Would we really have to wait until capitalism reaches its limits? Or would be able to do it now if we really wanted to? I guess I'm just confused about how this should all be done.

Keep in mind that I am not extremely well versed on the histories of these nations. I am actually more knowledgeable on the histories of more capitalist nations than those others. I do plan on reading some history books soon, I just have lots of other stuff going on as well. So, I feel that I can't really make any firm statements on Stalin or Mao or whoever because I simply don't know that much about them to make a judgment. Any help?

Thanks again to all the responses and any that may follow.

[Zanthorus]

Marx-". . . as soon as the distribution of labour comes into being, each man has a particular, exclusive sphere of activity, which is forced upon him and from which he cannot escape. He is a hunter, a fisherman, a shepherd, or a critical critic, and must remain so if he does not want to lose his means of livelihood; while in communist society, where nobody has one exclusive sphere of activity but each can become accomplished in any branch he wishes, society regulates the general production and thus makes it possible for me to do one thing today and another tomorrow, to hunt in the morning, fish in the afternoon, rear cattle in the evening, criticise after dinner, just as I have a mind, without ever becoming hunter, fisherman, shepherd or critic."


Marx studded his writings with a comparable density of allusions to the ideas and terminologies of philosophers, historians and political economists. For example, when he likened life under communism where everyone would be able “to hunt in the morning, fish in the afternoon, rear cattle in the evening and criticize after dinner.” In the first three activities, Marx was mocking Adam Smith and almost every vulgar economist for their “unimaginative fantasies.” The post-prandial critical criticising was another dig at the Holy Family of Young Hegelians. Cultural semi-literates who fail to recognise these sources do not hesitate to berate Marx for putting forward an insipid picture of comforts suiting a country gent, or Tolstoy.- Humphrey McQueen, Reading the 'unreadable' Marx

[LeftistLord]

Hi, i agree with you, we need socialism and communism in this world because of a lot of things: wars, death, hunger, poverty, obesity, cancer, diabetes, mental-depression caused by poverty and hopelessness, racism, hatred, evil, suffering and pain in the majority of world's citizens, and because of a lot of other evil things caused by capitalism that would be lowered or completely cured in a socialist workers world and communist state-less world

.




Hello people of revleft,

I am a new member to the site. I have some questions/comments/concerns about some things mostly regarding socialism and communism. Thus, I am mainly directing these questions to any Marxists, Communists, Socialists, whatever have you. Or, even if you aren't one of those and you just happen to be well versed on that sort of theory, then you can probably help me out.

I'll start by explaining that I pretty much didn't start classifying myself as a Socialist until around March/April of this year. For a little while I was mainly classifying myself as a democratic socialist (or is it social democrat?). I believed that capitalism was wrong (to put it simply) and that the best way to bring about socialism was by the slow and painful process of educating people and then using the governmental system to vote socialism into power, so to speak. However, I was thinking mostly in the terms of "western democracy" at this point. I wasn't really looking much beyond America, Canada, the UK or what have you. However, I have broadened my scope as of late and see that many people still live like it's the 17th century (I was a sheltered child). I have dived deeper into "Marxist" theory as of late and find myself agreeing with almost everything I read that Marx and Engels have written or said. That being said, I guess I have a problem not being able to apply what was going on at that time to what has happened since then. I feel like there is just so much to learn and so little time for me to learn it all. It can be daunting to try to learn all of this.

So, some of my major questions regarding "the revolution", communism, Marxism, socialism, and all that have to do with what is actually going to happen. I can easily see short term things. I see that something in society is bad, so I think about what needs to be done to fix it, but then I can't really picture what will come after that. One of my major problems of being able to wrap my mind around is what the world is going to look like during and after the revolution takes place. I am so used to some things that I can't think about how they are going to be in a new system. I will try to explain further:

I imagine that the communist society will be this world with no class division. There will be no upper, middle, and lower classes. There will be no racism, sexism, homophobia, what have you. No "I am better than you" ideology. I also imagine this absence of being always afraid of a murder, or a rapist, or a burglar hurting you. I imagine that people will all be friends and live in community happily. I imagine people smiling at each other and being completely honest and open about themselves, perhaps calling each other "friend" or "comrade" or some other way to show love. I also imagine no grumbling about work. I imagine people saying "Okay, I will go do this work to help out my friends who are helping me out in return." And work won't be that backbreaking that it isn't really something to complain too much about anyways. I imagine other things like the absence of marriage, organized religions, lots of violence, greed, selfishness, distrust, embarrassment, discrimination, or anything else that really puts us down as human beings and keeps us from being good to each other and ourselves.

However, there comes a problem with my vision of this world. Some of the specifics aren't really figured out for me. How will work be decided? Will there still be "bosses" in the workplace? Not that the managers will make more money, but that there is someone who's job is to just make sure everyone is doing everything right. I imagine the workers in a specific field all getting together to elect some person from them who has good leadership and organization qualities to sort of act as an overseer. Would this exist? Or will everything be decided by the mass? If so, how can you guarantee that direct democracy will not leave out minority groups? Will there still be representatives that are elected? Or will everything be decided by popular vote? How will laws be made? Will there even be laws? Will it even be necessary to have them?

I also imagine this world being very agricultural and industrial for some reason. I mostly imagine long fields of crops for feeding the people, the landscape dotted with wind turbines and solar panels for electricity to light the buildings. And then huge rows of factories all producing clothes and other things for people. But what about all of this tech-savvy stuff? What about video games and televisions and the computers like what I am typing this message on right now? These things aren't necessarily needs for people. All we really need is nourishment and warmth. As in, I'm looking at that whole "each according to their needs" things. So everyone makes enough food to feed everyone, and water is purified to give to everyone, and clothes are made to warm people up in the cold weather, and heaters are put into buildings to warm them up as well. Obviously there are other needs like sewage and hygiene products and lots of other stuff that I'm forgetting. But what about all of these "entertainment" items? They aren't really needs, but then why should we get rid of them? How will they be produced? Should they be treated as needs? Should everyone get a computer? Should everyone get a television? Or maybe there would be some sort of waiting list that you could sign up on for some item and then that item would be made specially for you. That way there is no surplus. But then there is a waiting period for everything. Sometimes things are needed immediately.

It's all really confusing for me, as you may be able to tell. I just don't know what the world will look like. I understand that I hate capitalism and any sort of idea of one person being somehow worth more than another. And I understand that I want workers to be able to control their work places, that everybody should get everything they need to survive, that hierarchy is unfair. I think that food, water, clothes, a place to live, education, books, medical care, transportation, basically anything that can be commoditized should be free for all to use. But how is this going to happen? I believe it, but I can't seem to make it real. I keep seeing things that contradict each other and I can't figure it out.

So, I'm asking for some help. If anyone can explain to me how the world might look when the revolution is going on and when it is over with, I would appreciate it so much. How are all of these things going to work out? How will things be organized? Will life kind of look like it does for those upper world people in H.G. Wells' Time Machine? Will it be like the society that George Orwell describes existed for a brief time in Homage to Catalonia (minus the war going on)? Better yet, does anyone have any books that may describe what the "utopia" may be like? Any sort of analogies to compare to?

Thanks for taking the time to read this, if you did read it, and I appreciate any feedback. Please pardon any grammatical errors I may have. I don't really want to edit it right now.

Signed,
a Socialist that's always ready to learn