Privitasation of Royal Mail

[hatzel]

Not as exciting as some other topics, it's true, and of little (if any) interest to non-UK readers, but what do we all think about the government's decision to sell off large parts of the Royal Mail (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-11258649)? Do we think that the state has an obligation to provide a postal service, as we expect them to provide a police force, education and healthcare, or can it be left in private hands?

Please try to avoid the urge to suggest smashing either the state or all capitalist entities, because this doesn't really answer what we would expect the present government to provide us :thumbup1: Once we decide that, maybe then we can start talking about smashing states and so on...and perhaps addressing the very important and exciting issue of the organisation of the postal service in post-revolutionary society :drool:

[Crimson Commissar]

We all saw this coming, really. While this is definitely a terrible thing to do, we can't expect a capitalist state to do anything different. The only important thing is that we get rid of this bullshit as soon as possible. This will likely be the first event in a long line of privatizations that will gradually transform Britain, and many other countries, into becoming entirely free market capitalist. We as leftists need to seize this opportunity and organise the workers against it. Maybe when the British people are severely affected by capitalist greed, they will actually start to oppose it. We can only hope that they turn to revolutionary leftism rather than settling for a half-assed social democracy.

[IndependentCitizen]

I wonder how the Unions will react to this? Billy Hayes has spoken out, but other unions haven't said anything as far as I'm aware.

I think a general strike to apply pressure should be necessary.

[hatzel]

I'm not sure how much interest the unions would have at the moment, without further details being known. I mean, will they care if it turns out there'll be the same number of workers, working for the same hours at the same pay? So maybe the unions are waiting to see how the situation develops. As are we. I can't see this policy being remotely popular if it will result in unnecessary (unless you're trying to gain money from the system, that is) price increases. Any idea about that? From my understanding, the Royal Mail was already keen to make a pretty profit, but I assume that the intended margins wouldn't have been anywhere near that which would be craved by a publicly floated postal company.

Still, I'll be sure to pay attention to this, see what the level of interest is in organising some kind of protest. Keep us informed if you hear about anything! :thumbup:

[Blackscare]

It's not worth trying to lobby the state to maintain/expand it's social utilities, when what we should really be doing is sm--










--othering it.

[hatzel]

Working on the assumption that the smothering won't be happening in the next few days, should we maybe think of ways we could improve the status quo for all involved, and worry about smothering when the opportunity arises? Or would privatisation of everything, in the process facilitating capitalist exploitation, actually be a necessary evil to deprive the state of all power, ensuring that the population is in no way reliant on the state? Personally I'd rather be totally reliant on the state for my postal system, as well as the health service and education etc., than to be totally totally reliant on the personal whims of some capitalist in his ivory tower. Therefore I would support the state retaining ownership of, or at least some involvement in, the postal service. Hell, no capitalist will be worried that we won't vote for him if he gives us a shit service :thumbup1:

[revolution inaction]

Not as exciting as some other topics, it's true, and of little (if any) interest to non-UK readers, but what do we all think about the government's decision to sell off large parts of the Royal Mail (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-11258649)? Do we think that the state has an obligation to provide a postal service, as we expect them to provide a police force, education and healthcare, or can it be left in private hands?

Please try to avoid the urge to suggest smashing either the state or all capitalist entities, because this doesn't really answer what we would expect the present government to provide us :thumbup1: Once we decide that, maybe then we can start talking about smashing states and so on...and perhaps addressing the very important and exciting issue of the organisation of the postal service in post-revolutionary society :drool:

i expect the state to attack the working class and to defend capitalists, that's what its for.
right now its also going to try desperately to save money by cuting back on stuff, like, health care, education, etc.

[the last donut of the night]

It's not worth trying to lobby the state to maintain/expand it's social utilities, when what we should really be doing is sm--










--othering it.

Typical ultra-left blabber. Yes, the capitalist state is an oppressive entity, and yes, it should be done away with. However, we all know (well, most of us) that privatization is not the way to go. Nationalized industries can offer tangible results for the working class (as temporary as they can be, but they're still real things, unlike the rhetoric you spout, which is far from today's reality). Privatization means the smashing of unions and a lower quality of life for the workers involved. And the customers too, must I say (who are usually workers).

[Rainsborough]

Unfortunately we'll get the usual crap, the 'usual suspects' will blow out their chests and talk about jobs, call for strike action, then accept the crap they're offered and disappear back to their posh houses like good capitalist lackeys. We need a new Lenin, not more talk and endless debate.

[Dimentio]

Not as exciting as some other topics, it's true, and of little (if any) interest to non-UK readers, but what do we all think about the government's decision to sell off large parts of the Royal Mail (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-11258649)? Do we think that the state has an obligation to provide a postal service, as we expect them to provide a police force, education and healthcare, or can it be left in private hands?

Please try to avoid the urge to suggest smashing either the state or all capitalist entities, because this doesn't really answer what we would expect the present government to provide us :thumbup1: Once we decide that, maybe then we can start talking about smashing states and so on...and perhaps addressing the very important and exciting issue of the organisation of the postal service in post-revolutionary society :drool:

That depends on how they sell it off. If its still government-financed, there could still be some problems, but people will still be able to pay their bills through mail. If costs suddenly rise, some people won't afford to send in tax declarations and bills, and that could be a very big problem.

Though they could have privatised worse than just the mail service. Like more important social services which actually have a crucial importance for all people.

As for privatisations, one question is why they never seem to cut the subsidies for large companies, the nobility or the army.

[Dimentio]

Unfortunately we'll get the usual crap, the 'usual suspects' will blow out their chests and talk about jobs, call for strike action, then accept the crap they're offered and disappear back to their posh houses like good capitalist lackeys. We need a new Lenin, not more talk and endless debate.

Yadda yadda.

If the time had been ripe for a new Lenin, you would have got a new Lenin. If Britain stagnates instead of seeing growth, which wouldn't surprise me given the sad state of the island resource base, then the system could collapse in fifteen years. But instead, the result might be a migration of Englishmen and Scots to Europe.

[Rainsborough]

Yadda yadda.

If the time had been ripe for a new Lenin, you would have got a new Lenin. If Britain stagnates instead of seeing growth, which wouldn't surprise me given the sad state of the island resource base, then the system could collapse in fifteen years. But instead, the result might be a migration of Englishmen and Scots to Europe.

So what would your suggestion be, to sit comfortably behind our computer keyboards and do nothing?

[hatzel]

So what would your suggestion be, to sit comfortably behind our computer keyboards and do nothing?
...I guess we could sit uncomfortably, but I doubt that's the solution you're really looking for...

However, you've got a point. When union leaders are taking home 6-figure salaries, we're well within our rights to suggest that they're not really anything to do with the workers they claim to represent...

[Rainsborough]

How, then,can we hope for change when the very people that purport to lead us aren't worth shit.