Leon Trotsky regains popularity in Europe

[Q]

An interesting report I just saw:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PBN_TmsQhzM

Thank you bourgeois media for the free ad :D

[Die Neue Zeit]

But this is reported by Russian media and not Western European media proper. Free ads are good, though. :D

[Kiev Communard]

But this is reported by Russian media and not Western European media proper. Free ads are good, though. :D

Yes, and this is quite strange given the vehemently anti-Communist and in particular anti-Trotskyist stance of most Russian media and "experts".

[Dire Helix]

Yes, and this is quite strange given the vehemently anti-Communist and in particular anti-Trotskyist stance of most Russian media and "experts".

This is Russia Today though, it`s meant for consumption abroad. I`d be surprised if something like this was shown on local TV. A few weeks ago there was a feature on Dzerzhinsky and Trotsky on Channel 3, both were expectedly demonized to the extreme.

[maskerade]

Am I the only one who has never heard of Workers Power? There are too many trotskyist groups (or leftist groups in general) :/

Good with free ads, but I usually don't like Russia Today, they have some strange reporting

[graymouser]

Am I the only one who has never heard of Workers Power? There are too many trotskyist groups (or leftist groups in general) :/
Well, Workers Power has been around for a good 35 years in Britain; here in the US it's a much newer, and smaller, group. It originated in a split from the Cliffites in the mid-1970s, briefly unified with what is now AWL, and then turned in the early 1980s to a very orthodox version of Trotskyism (although I'd argue there are still stamps of Cliffism). There are links in my signature.

As far as too many - well, maybe, but there's not much by way of class struggle that is pushing them together. Without something pressing and immediate to unify around, you get half-assed lashups like Solidarity in the US, which combined ex-SWP members with the International Socialists and a split from the IS called Workers Power (not related to the British Workers Power, oddly enough). Unity is good but it has to be unity for something, you know?

[maskerade]

Well, Workers Power has been around for a good 35 years in Britain; here in the US it's a much newer, and smaller, group. It originated in a split from the Cliffites in the mid-1970s, briefly unified with what is now AWL, and then turned in the early 1980s to a very orthodox version of Trotskyism (although I'd argue there are still stamps of Cliffism). There are links in my signature.

As far as too many - well, maybe, but there's not much by way of class struggle that is pushing them together. Without something pressing and immediate to unify around, you get half-assed lashups like Solidarity in the US, which combined ex-SWP members with the International Socialists and a split from the IS called Workers Power (not related to the British Workers Power, oddly enough). Unity is good but it has to be unity for something, you know?

I agree, i'm almost certain that sectarianism will be almost completely abandoned once the working class gains revolutionary momentum. But I can't help but feel that unity would help us get to that moment.

[Vladimir Innit Lenin]

lol @ Trotsky regaining popularity.

That's really just a straw to clutch to. In reality, his ideas are abhorrent to the understanding of ordinary working people, and certainly haven't succeeded in raising class consciousness amongst the UK working class, for one.

Whilst he was of course a brilliant war leader and had some relevant theoretical contributions, it's time to move on from the time where it was advocated, in certain circles, that orthodox Trotskyism (to my understanding, not really too different, ideologically speaking, from pre-Stalin Marxism-Leninism) was the way forward.

[Q]

lol @ Trotsky regaining popularity.

That's really just a straw to clutch to. In reality, his ideas are abhorrent to the understanding of ordinary working people, and certainly haven't succeeded in raising class consciousness amongst the UK working class, for one.

Whilst he was of course a brilliant war leader and had some relevant theoretical contributions, it's time to move on from the time where it was advocated, in certain circles, that orthodox Trotskyism (to my understanding, not really too different, ideologically speaking, from pre-Stalin Marxism-Leninism) was the way forward.

There is no such thing as "pre-Stalin Marxism-Leninism" as it was exactly a creature spawned from Stalin's head after Lenin died.

Anyway, whether or not we agree with Trotskyist positions, it's remarkable that we see such a pro-revolutionary report on bourgeois media.

I wasn't aware though that this channel is Russia Today (never heard of it before). Why do they talk English?

[Sam_b]

I'm pretty sure it's an English language channel to promote a Russian viewpoint internationally. It's a Freeview channel in the UK.

[Comrade Marxist Bro]

I'm pretty sure it's an English language channel to promote a Russian viewpoint internationally. It's a Freeview channel in the UK.

True, more or less. I guess the Russian state's perspective is that radical ideas that may embarrass the establishment are awesome in the West, while stable Putinist authoritarianism is irrefutably the best for Russia.

[Widerstand]

:crying: But why no Malatesta or Bakunin?

[Comrade Marxist Bro]

:crying: But why no Malatesta or Bakunin?

I'm not too sure -- perhaps because they aren't noticeably gaining popularity?

[scarletghoul]

Sometimes the media gets things wrong and reports on a tiny leftist group thinking theyre huge and stuff. For example the Times of India assuming that a guerilla war was starting in China when they just read one statement from MCPC. This seems to be the case with the Trotskyism thing (the vast majority of british people have not even heard of Workers' Power). The reality is there's always been some minor leftist groups saying 'capitalism doesn't work', its not like a resurgence across europe.. It's always good to have publicity though and some groups can use this overestimation better than others (for example, the Panthers marching in on sacramento legislature fully armed caused the media to report it like they were a huge army of blacks declaring war, when in fact the party did not have many members other than the 30 or so they sent).

[Jazzhands]

Sometimes the media gets things wrong and reports on a tiny leftist group thinking theyre huge and stuff. For example the Times of India assuming that a guerilla war was starting in China when they just read one statement from MCPC.

I remember that thread...that was one awesome thread. good times.


Sometimes the media gets things wrong and reports on a tiny leftist group thinking theyre huge and stuff.

This happens to rightist groups too. Like the Tea Party. It's a faction of the craziest of the Republican Party that appeals to a comparatively small percent of the American people, specifically designed by its owner to grab attention and make themselves look bigger and more grassroots than they really are. He actually said that on Freedomworks. And they succeeded because the media in America is so useless that they won't even be bothered to find out whether what someone said is true or not, which means that the Tea Partiers are portrayed as working class individuals, Average Joes, even though most of them are in the upper-upper middle class.

[Yehuda Stern]

Maskerade, You're making a rather common mistake of confusing sectarianism with having principles. If I have no political agreement with a certain group, then I have no reason to be in it, regardless of whether or not it claims to be Marxist, Trotskyist, etc.

Granma, given where the Cuban state is going nowdays, one would think you'd be a bit more careful about what sort of ideas you say are abhorrent to the working class.

[mossy noonmann]

is there a 'family tree' of the left anywhere?

i know the bigger uk and french outfits but not always where they came from etc

[Crux]

Maskerade, You're making a rather common mistake of confusing sectarianism with having principles. If I have no political disagreement with a certain group, then I have no reason to be in it, regardless of whether or not it claims to be Marxist, Trotskyist, etc.

Surely this is a typo?

Maskerade: Worker's Power actually have a section in Sweden (unsurprisingly called Arbetarmakt). I've met him a couple of times. ;) Hahaha now I am being mean, but they have 40-ish emembers I think. Mostly in stockholm.

[Yehuda Stern]

Yes, thank you for pointing that out. Edited.

[Tatarin]

Castro abandoning Marxism-Leninism... Trotsky getting popular in Europe... where is the world leading to?

:tt2:

[Das war einmal]

There is no such thing as "pre-Stalin Marxism-Leninism" as it was exactly a creature spawned from Stalin's head after Lenin died.

Anyway, whether or not we agree with Trotskyist positions, it's remarkable that we see such a pro-revolutionary report on bourgeois media.

I wasn't aware though that this channel is Russia Today (never heard of it before). Why do they talk English?

Russia Today has grown out to be a big competitor to CNN. They have an American division and it appears they give more space to the 'alternative' source. It's certainly a bourgeois source, but they are a more independent it seems. They at least come over as more intelligent then the common western media.

On-topic: I don't see many evidence of Trotskyism being more popular nowadays, despite what RT claims. A lot of youngsters I know don't know who Lenin is, nevermind Trotsky.

[scarletghoul]

RT also has a thing for the RCP, who have featured on that channel quite a few times.

[bailey_187]

RT also has a thing for the RCP, who have featured on that channel quite a few times.

yeah Roy Lotta and Carl Dix been on there a couple times

[Volcanicity]

For Communism to get any kind of air-time on British tv is a rarity,so this should be applauded.But on the downside I remember RT having a ten minute interview with Nick Griffin.

[scarletghoul]

True. Though thinking about it the BBC has given a lot more airtime to Griffin than that, and (as far as I can remember) no airtime at all to the far left, despite having many more channels and stuff than RT. RT comes out as much more left-friendly than the British or US media

Either this is down to lingering soviet sentiment (a commie sympathiser on their board of directors, etc), or its a russian effort to fuel dissent in the west, i guess.

[Volcanicity]

Yes thats true,I cant remember seeing anyone from the far-left on Question Time,and its not just BBC TV either their radio outputs the same.

[scarletghoul]

The most leftist person theyll have on Question Time is Galloway :lol:

Oh and that mark kermode movie guy is apparently a marxist; someone posted a great leftist review he done of Sex and the City movie from I think Radio 5.. but that's the only time I can remember the BBC airing explicity Marxist views and that was obviously outside of the designated political sphere

[Volcanicity]

The problem with BBC question Time or any of their political shows,is that they seem obssessed with having celebrities on them,or comedians who have said something a bit left wing instead of having people from far left parties.They seem to like their left politics watered down.Whereas RT seems pretty open.