Is it really a matter of reasoning with the opposition?

[RadioRaheem84]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aqmmg-e8_MI

This clip shows a trio of well informed comrades talking to a tea partier and answering most of his question in a decent and polite manner.

I wouldn't have been as praiseworthy of the Cuban system as they were but they were other wise very well informed and could adequately answer the cameraman.

This made me think though that if when it comes to such staunch opposition like the right wing, if there is any reasoning with them at this point? At this point I think it's a matter of the will and heart. The cameraman was using tired old arguments like, "if they like it so much, go live in Cuba". I mean, the denial of the right wing has gotten to a point where it seems like it's unreasonable to actually engage them in debate anymore.

[Forward Union]

Is it really a matter of reasoning with the opposition?

Absolutely not. I mean, Feudalism didn't give way to capitalism because of reasoned debate.

Given that capitalism is inherantly an unreasonable system, it can't possibly be intellectual integrity which holds it together. If someone is benefiting greatly from a particular situation, and you propose to remove their privelage and dramatically reduce their quality of life, they will do their best to prevent that happening. And they will use extreme force to do so. Regardless of your reasoning, they will find ways of disputing it if need be. A persons beliefs are always convinent to the person who hold them.

You have to remember, we're not talking about a war of ideas. But a war of classes, two groups who have two opposing material self interests. In fact, it's quite unreasonable to expect a boss to surrender his wealth and power because you have a winning argument. He can just ignore you and continue benefitting from the set up.

The only way we can be listened to, is if we have enough economic power to lever politics in our favour.

Now in regard to fellow workers, who happen to take right wing positions. Well. A bit of it might be to do with reasoned argument, I mean, unreasoned argument wil lcertainly not work. But then again, most communist supporters in Germany in the early 1920s were Nazis by the 1930s. And that wasn't because of reasoned debate, but simply because both groups portrayed themselves as being the best means for people to get job security, wages and food.

If we can practically show how we will incnrease peoples living standards in the day to day, then our ideas will become convinient to people, and then they will start to come on side. Because it will be in their interests to do so. This is why I see non-sectarian Syndicalism, fighting on bread and butter issues to be the only option.

[Obs]

We kind of have to reason with workers and patiently explain in order to get them on our side... as for everyone else, fuck 'em. They'll go along or get a bullet to the nose.

[Lacrimi de Chiciură]

A lot of right-wingers aren't even aware of anticapitalist ideas, or that socialism might actually be in their interests. Engaging with the opposition is probably the best way to inform them of what we are all about. Even if right-wingers have cemented their ideology with corporate talking points and years of self-inflicted ignorance, we can start to sew the seeds of doubt, of awareness of capitalism's contradictions by talking with them. Unless they are physically attacking us or verbally abusive, there is no reason to not reason.

[syndicat]

well, you never know who you may win over. that's why it's best not to just assume that some people are "enemies" because they express conservative ideas. I was once a member of the Young Republicans (when i was 19). at a big company i worked at there was a young engineer who expressed right wing libertarian ideas. but i used to explain my own ideas to him. the last time i saw him he said he'd become more left-wing in his views. but we're not likely to be successful arguing with very wealthy people. other workers are a different story...because they have their own life experiences as evidence that works in our favor.

[The Douche]

I can tell you one thing, I wouldn't (and don't) take that guy in the video seriously.

[RadioRaheem84]

Given that capitalism is inherantly an unreasonable system, it can't possibly be intellectual integrity which holds it together. If someone is benefiting greatly from a particular situation, and you propose to remove their privelage and dramatically reduce their quality of life, they will do their best to prevent that happening. And they will use extreme force to do so. Regardless of your reasoning, they will find ways of disputing it if need be. A persons beliefs are always convinent to the person who hold them.



Well you see this is my point. The capitalist system has used every means to survive including fundamentally distorting the truth and the historical record for its own gain. The level of propaganda employed by the US is unprecedented in history. What are we supposed to do about workers and other people who simply will not listen to reason.

The fact do not even make sense anymore in contemporary capitalist society.