Anarchism in Greece

[nuisance]

So, what is the biggest current of anarchism in Greece? I've heard that anarcho-syndicalism is getting quite big there recently, has this meant a decline in the other currents?

[Peter The Painter]

I heard that Anarchists are big, and the stalin boys of the KKE are, there was even a video of them fighting in crowds on here last week.

My mum was like, i wish you would come on holiday with me, i was like, well, greece has some prety cheap last minute deals :)

I would go and join the greek workers for a week, then fly back, and tell everyone on revleft, and you would all be like

Yeah, sure you did:rolleyes:

[Reznov]

I heard that Anarchists are big, and the stalin boys of the KKE are, there was even a video of them fighting in crowds on here last week.

My mum was like, i wish you would come on holiday with me, i was like, well, greece has some prety cheap last minute deals :)

I would go and join the greek workers for a week, then fly back, and tell everyone on revleft, and you would all be like

Yeah, sure you did:rolleyes:

Why dont you get us pictures or video or something? If you got that I'd believe you.

[Wanted Man]

I heard that Anarchists are big, and the stalin boys of the KKE are, there was even a video of them fighting in crowds on here last week.

My mum was like, i wish you would come on holiday with me, i was like, well, greece has some prety cheap last minute deals :)

I would go and join the greek workers for a week, then fly back, and tell everyone on revleft, and you would all be like

Yeah, sure you did:rolleyes:

What if all the airport workers went on strike?

[Devrim]

So, what is the biggest current of anarchism in Greece? I've heard that anarcho-syndicalism is getting quite big there recently, has this meant a decline in the other currents?

I think it is quite noticeable that despite the large size of the anarchist movement in Greece neither of the two major international anarchist organisations, the AIT/IWA or the IAF has a section there, nor is their an organisation in the 'Anarkismo' current.

Devrim

[F9]

nor is their an organisation in the 'Anarkismo' current.

There used to be one, couple of years ago, but they decided to stop it, i had a "friend" from them, we used to exchange mails back then, and was informing me on the happenings, but they had troubles so they were forced to break the organization.

[Delenda Carthago]

So, what is the biggest current of anarchism in Greece? I've heard that anarcho-syndicalism is getting quite big there recently, has this meant a decline in the other currents?

anarchomasturbation

[Delenda Carthago]

I think it is quite noticeable that despite the large size of the anarchist movement in Greece neither of the two major international anarchist organisations, the AIT/IWA or the IAF has a section there, nor is their an organisation in the 'Anarkismo' current.

Devrim
OMG!ARE YOU SURE???

Damn!This means no revolution for Greece neither?

[Devrim]

OMG!ARE YOU SURE???

Damn!This means no revolution for Greece neither?

Actually, I didn't make any comment, I merely stated the facts.

Personally I think that it almost certainly says something about the Greek anarchist movement, though I am not sure what.

Devrim

[nuisance]

anarchomasturbation
You what?

[Delenda Carthago]

Actually, I didn't make any comment, I merely stated the facts.

Personally I think that it almost certainly says something about the Greek anarchist movement, though I am not sure what.

Devrim

maybe that there are no anarchist groups in the spirit of those internationals.

and/or maybe that those indernationals are kinda worthless...

[Devrim]

maybe that there are no anarchist groups in the spirit of those internationals.

I think I remember you saying that the influence of anarcho-syndicalism is increasing. The AIIT/IWA is the anarcho-syndicalist international.

There are a few points which come to mind about the reason why there are no sections of these organisations in Greece.

1) The rise of the Greek anarchist movement is relatively modern, sice the 1960s. Although there were anarcho-syndicalists in Greece in the period of the revolutionary wave, who were central to the workers movement, for example Speras, there were never the massive anarcho-syndicalist unions that there were in the 'Latin' countries. Thus anarchism in Greece today don't have the historic connection to the IWA, as anarchism in say Spain, Italy, or France does.

2) Language is also important. Greek is a reasonably obscure language, not spoken by that many non Greeks, as compared to say Spanish and French. Historically this must have played some role in this isolation. However, the rise of English as a world language has somewhat changed the situation. The IWA now has sections in Poland, Serbia, and Slovakia, all similarly obscure languages.

3) The anti-organisational current within Greek anarchism must have some influence. As far as I know there is no nationwide anarchist organisation in Greece.

Devrim

[Black Sheep]

anarchomasturbation

:laugh:
it's double funny because in greek it sounds epic.
user-titled

[BeerShaman]

Well, yes anarcho-syndicalism is rising a bit. Though there is much insurgency. But it's gone calm recently. Anyway, I hope that this year there will be many demonstrations, strikes and protests and anarcho-syndicalism will rise even more.
I'm at least happy that we are mostly anarcho-communist and not individualists.

[Delenda Carthago]

I think I remember you saying that the influence of anarcho-syndicalism is increasing. The AIIT/IWA is the anarcho-syndicalist international.

There are a few points which come to mind about the reason why there are no sections of these organisations in Greece.

1) The rise of the Greek anarchist movement is relatively modern, sice the 1960s. Although there were anarcho-syndicalists in Greece in the period of the revolutionary wave, who were central to the workers movement, for example Speras, there were never the massive anarcho-syndicalist unions that there were in the 'Latin' countries. Thus anarchism in Greece today don't have the historic connection to the IWA, as anarchism in say Spain, Italy, or France does.

2) Language is also important. Greek is a reasonably obscure language, not spoken by that many non Greeks, as compared to say Spanish and French. Historically this must have played some role in this isolation. However, the rise of English as a world language has somewhat changed the situation. The IWA now has sections in Poland, Serbia, and Slovakia, all similarly obscure languages.

3) The anti-organisational current within Greek anarchism must have some influence. As far as I know there is no nationwide anarchist organisation in Greece.

Devrim

its also true,what you say,but its mostly because of its irrelevant nature.what the hell do we need an international for?And what good is a nationwide team for?There is one,antiauthoritarian,not anarchist,but even for them i see no reason to be nationwide,since all the work is been done by its local teams.In some cases,they have two local teams in one town!:lol:

And it rose in the 70s not the 60s...

PS.Costas Speras is not been reffered by today anarchosyndicalists,as he turned fascist later on.

[revolution inaction]

we have contact with organised anarchist communists in greece

[revolution inaction]

its also true,what you say,but its mostly because of its irrelevant nature.what the hell do we need an international for?And what good is a nationwide team for?There is one,antiauthoritarian,not anarchist,but even for them i see no reason to be nationwide,since all the work is been done by its local teams.In some cases,they have two local teams in one town!:lol:

And it rose in the 70s not the 60s...

PS.Costas Speras is not been reffered by today anarchosyndicalists,as he turned fascist later on.

it is not possible to have a revolution in one town, it must be international.
It is obviously the case that a larger organisation is able to doing more than a smaller one.

[nuisance]

it is not possible to have a revolution in one town, it must be international.
It is obviously the case that a larger organisation is able to doing more than a smaller one.
What do you think a Federation can provide in this context that networks can't?
It appears that lack of membership to either the IAF or IWA hasn't hindered international solidarity by any means. Infact I reckon it's clear to see that insurrectionist anarchists practice far more solidarity than those belonging to the internationals discussed, where that be monetary aid to action.

[Delenda Carthago]

it is not possible to have a revolution in one town, it must be international.
It is obviously the case that a larger organisation is able to doing more than a smaller one.

like what?

[Ravachol]

like what?

How about coordinating actions, strikes and occupations in a tactical fashion and linking up occupied factories and 'liberated' neighbourhoods in order to exchange (for example) resources and to serve as a new material base from which to launch subsequent attacks on Capital and the State.

[Delenda Carthago]

How about coordinating actions, strikes and occupations in a tactical fashion and linking up occupied factories and 'liberated' neighbourhoods in order to exchange (for example) resources and to serve as a new material base from which to launch subsequent attacks on Capital and the State.

nothing that they cant already do...

[Delenda Carthago]

the anarchist space in greece prefers to organise in small affinity groups which collaborate when needed.and this is in everyway better:

a.they dont gather under a general "anarchist" banner,everyone keeps its word sharp and precise.

b.its more democratic

c.it gets the job done.

[Devrim]

And it rose in the 70s not the 60s...

The people I spoke to said that it began to emerge after the French events in 1968.


Costas Speras is not been reffered by today anarchosyndicalists,as he turned fascist later on.

I didn't know that. Do you have a link to anything about it?

I know he was shot by the KKE, but lots of revolutionaries were murdered by Stalinists in countries where they were leading the partisan movement, like for example Italy.

Even if it is true, I don't think that it is any reason to negate his contribution.

Devrim

[Devrim]

we have contact with organised anarchist communists in greece

Which group? Do they have a website?

Devrim

[Leo]

I didn't know that. Do you have a link to anything about it?I've read the wiki article on Speras and there is nothing even implying anything of sort:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constantinos_Speras

Internationalist communist Agis Stins, who mentions Speras in his memoirs, speaks of nothing of that sort either. I would not be surprised the claim that Speras started working with the fascists was nothing but a KKE slander.

[Devrim]

On the whole organisation issue there appears to be major differences.

Without going into it too deeply, I'd just like to make a ask a few questions.


It appears that lack of membership to either the IAF or IWA hasn't hindered international solidarity by any means. Infact I reckon it's clear to see that insurrectionist anarchists practice far more solidarity than those belonging to the internationals discussed, where that be monetary aid to action.

I don't understand the last point you make in that sentence, but it is not clear to me. Why do you think it is?


the anarchist space in greece prefers to organise in small affinity groups which collaborate when needed.and this is in everyway better:
...
b.its more democratic

Why do you think small groups are more democratic?



It is obviously the case that a larger organisation is able to doing more than a smaller one. like what?

I want to give an example from our experience. During the events of 2008, we wanted to put on a speaker from the Greek movement in Ankara and Istanbul. We were quite happy to pay travelling expenses etc. We had very few contacts in Greece at the time and couldn't find anybody to do it. I don't think it was because we were not anarchists because anarchists in Ankara had the same problem, and indeed we even talked about doing a joint meeting together.

Recently when we we organising a speaking tour with a worker from the TEKEL struggle in Germany, we wanted some help in some cities where we didn't have people. We just contacted the IWA, and they put us in touch with their German section, and we got the meetings organised.

Devrim

[revolution inaction]

Which group? Do they have a website?

Devrim

I don't know vary much about them, sorry, i'm not sure what the name is and i don't think they have a web site.
They say anarchists have been becoming more involved in workers struggles, and some new neighbourhood and workers assemblies.

[Devrim]

I don't know vary much about them, sorry, i'm not sure what the name is and i don't think they have a web site.
They say anarchists have been becoming more involved in workers struggles, and some new neighbourhood and workers assemblies.

If you could at all find out, I would be interested. I might possibly be in Greece at the religious holiday after this one, and it would be interesting to meet them.

As I said above, we were interested in putting Greek anarchists on in a meeting, and I still see room for it. Possible topics would be the events of Dec 2008, the current crisis in Greece, and Greece and Turkey, historical links between the working class in both countries.

Istanbul is of course close to Greece, and we can do meetings there. personally I would be interested to put a meeting/some meetings on in Ankara, and meet these sort of people myself.

Of course you realise that we are not anarchists, but we are quite happy to have anarchist speakers on our platforms, for them to distribute their literature, and we would be also willing to translate some basic stuff, from English not Greek, of course.

Devrim

[Delenda Carthago]

The people I spoke to said that it began to emerge after the French events in 1968.

actually,trhe first documented signs of anarchist action in Greece,where in the Polytechnic School uprise in 1973.and it came from students that went out in Paris due to the Junta.


I didn't know that. Do you have a link to anything about it?

I know he was shot by the KKE, but lots of revolutionaries were murdered by Stalinists in countries where they were leading the partisan movement, like for example Italy.

Even if it is true, I don't think that it is any reason to negate his contribution.

i could give you a link but its in greek...


Why do you think small groups are more democratic?

because by definition its more easy for minority voices to be heard in smaller groups.


I want to give an example from our experience. During the events of 2008, we wanted to put on a speaker from the Greek movement in Ankara and Istanbul. We were quite happy to pay travelling expenses etc. We had very few contacts in Greece at the time and couldn't find anybody to do it. I don't think it was because we were not anarchists because anarchists in Ankara had the same problem, and indeed we even talked about doing a joint meeting together.

Recently when we we organising a speaking tour with a worker from the TEKEL struggle in Germany, we wanted some help in some cities where we didn't have people. We just contacted the IWA, and they put us in touch with their German section, and we got the meetings organised.

thats a problem of other kind,not organasation.Greek comrades went all around the world after December and gave speaches.The problem is that even though we neibourghs,we have not create connection links with each other.You cant tell me that people went tourin in USA,UK,Spain,Italy etc but not Turkey,because there are no big teams!Its both our fault.

[Devrim]

i could give you a link but its in greek...

Please. I will just run it through the autotranslate. If you could post the relevant paragraph here and a link it would be even better.


because by definition its more easy for minority voices to be heard in smaller groups.

I don't think so. I think that small groups tend to get dominate by 'charismatic' individuals, and develop what some anarchists have called 'the tyranny of structureless (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Tyranny_of_Structurelessness)'.


thats a problem of other kind,not organasation.Greek comrades went all around the world after December and gave speaches.The problem is that even though we neibourghs,we have not create connection links with each other.You cant tell me that people went tourin in USA,UK,Spain,Italy etc but not Turkey,because there are no big teams!Its both our fault.

But who put them on at meetings in those countries? I would imagine that most meetings in Spain for example were organised by the CNT.

Devrim

[Delenda Carthago]

check this about Speras:
http://athens.indymedia.org/front.php3?lang=el&article_id=958886

in this link it is documented how he wrote articles for fascist newspapers,how he testified against communists,how he was paid to create an antiworkers party from the bourgeois...



On who called the "decembrists",of course other revolutionary teams which greek comrades already had some connections with.Unfortunatly,greeks and turks are not so tight as we should...

[thälmann]

isnt it true that the biggest anarchist group in greece is the antiauthoritarian movement?

[bricolage]

isnt it true that the biggest anarchist group in greece is the antiauthoritarian movement?
is that actually a coherent group or just a label?

[bricolage]

In regards to group vs. label.
I think a big problem of not having a 'group' (large or small) but rather a network (aside from the tyranny of structurelessness brought up which is of course a major issue) is the lack of accountability. It leads to the growth of such labels meaning various actions become claimed in its name with no way to refute them and claim they are not actually of who they claim to be.
I like the idea of fluid networks but I think there needs to be clearly defined;
a) responsibilities (eg. manage the website, print the leaflet)
b) in regards to a) perpetual recallability
c) accountability of action and ways to assert what is and what is not done in the name of the group

[Big Red]

is that actually a coherent group or just a label?

I think It's called Alpha Kappa, and it is a coherent group that's nationwide if I'm not mistaken

[Delenda Carthago]

AK(Antiexousiastiki Kinisi-Antiauthoritarian movement)is something in between.All of its local teams share some common ideas,but not all of them share all of the ideas.Matter of fact,AK is the team I told 1 page before on having 2 different teams in a small town of 500.000 people!:lol:

And thats why its the "biggest" (not anarchist but)antiauthoritarian team:its like many teams per say anarchocommunist come together.Its stupid.But if it works for them,it suits me fine...


resistance2003.gr

[Palingenisis]

How about coordinating actions, strikes and occupations in a tactical fashion and linking up occupied factories and 'liberated' neighbourhoods in order to exchange (for example) resources and to serve as a new material base from which to launch subsequent attacks on Capital and the State.

Very important point....In all fairness the the autonomist movement in mainland Europe has understood the importance of building up geniune alternative infrastructures than the traditional M-L groups. The revolution if it is to really suceed has to be about empowering everyone in the class and not just convincing people your ideas are right, selling papers or smashing up stuff. A prolonged and effective attack on the state has to have widespread community backing.