Syndicalism

[Pretty Flaco]

Can anyone give me any books to read or videos to watch about syndicalism in action? I remember seeing a video here once with old footage of Spanish anarchists and socialists during the civil war.

Syndicalism interests me, but I don't know too much about it. Does it work with socialism or does it work around it? Is syndicalism supposed to support competition in a socialist economy?

Anybody's two cents would be appreciated. :redstar2000:

[fa2991]

"The Red Spanish Notebook" by Mary Low. "Homage to Catalonia" by George Orwell. "Syndicalism: From Theory to Practice" by Rudolf Rocker.


Syndicalism interests me, but I don't know too much about it. Does it work with socialism or does it work around it? Is syndicalism supposed to support competition in a socialist economy?Syndicalism is just a left/anarchist-communist ideology that believes in a General Strike as a means of revolution and the seizure of private property. It's really a strategy more than a distinct tendency.

[Pretty Flaco]

I read Homage to Catalonia and I like the title of the "Red Spanish Notebook", so I'll try to find that. :)

And is it only practiced by anarchists? I can respect anarchists, but I'm not one for anarchism

[fa2991]

And is it only practiced by anarchists? I can respect anarchists, but I'm not one for anarchism

No, it's one of the few ideologies that effectively draws together followers of both Marx and Kropotkin. But syndicalists are big on workers' councils and basically libertarian civil society, so it's probably not for you if you're a Marxist-Leninist or something.

Look into the IWW (http://iww.org). It's the best modern syndicalist organization - at least in my opinion. It exhibits a wonderful non-sectarianism that was able to bring Noam Chomsky, Eugene Debs, Helen Keller, and Big Bill Haywood all under its tent.

[Magón]

No, Socialists, Trotskyists, and Communists have acted in a Syndicalist fashion. At least, in Spain '36 they all did. Syndicalism is just an umbrella term, like Anarcho-Syndicalism is. Syndicalism just moves towards, like what fa2991 said, General Strikes, along with Trade Unions, etc. rather than a Vanguard like Marxism, etc.

[fa2991]

General Strikes, along with Trade Unions, etc. rather than a Vanguard like Marxism, etc.

I'd modify that by saying that in syndicalism the radical unions are the vanguard.

[Magón]

I'd modify that by saying that in syndicalism the radical unions are the vanguard.

Yeah, but the unions are started by the peasants, rather an elite form who's supposed to lead. (Such as a Vanguard.) The Trade Unions are started and worked by the workers who took them over. (Proletariates) For example, Millers took their trade over, and such through General Strike. There was no Lenin or such Vanguard type to start it for them, the workers did it all themselves. Which in a Vanguard standpoint, the worker is only able to achieve such a hight, that they can go no higher, but are then forced to be led. Trade Unions cancel that part out. :thumbup1:

[fa2991]

http://www.marxists.org/history/usa/unions/iww/index.htm

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(The vid says "anarchist." Pretend they're saying "syndicalist.")

[fa2991]

Yeah, but the unions are started by the peasants, rather an elite form who's supposed to lead. (Such as a Vanguard.) The Trade Unions are started and worked by the workers who took them over. (Proletariates) For example, Millers took their trade over, and such through General Strike. There was no Lenin or such Vanguard type to start it for them, the workers did it all themselves. Which in a Vanguard standpoint, the worker is only able to achieve such a hight, that they can go no higher, but are then forced to be led. Trade Unions cancel that part out. http://www.revleft.com/vb/../revleft/smilies2/thumbup1.gif

I see what you mean. I'll modify my statement again and say:

"In syndicalism, the radical union is the vanguard without professional revolutionaries."

[Pretty Flaco]

No, I'm no leninist.

I'm starting to like syndicalism :cool:
i've never agreed with vanguardism in the first place

[Magón]

I see what you mean. I'll modify my statement again and say:

"In syndicalism, the radical union is the vanguard without professional revolutionaries."

I'd phrase the ending, "... Vanguard with the true professional revolutionaries." Since it's the workers who sweat and work for it, and in Syndicalism, end up being their own leaders, rather a Vanguard such as the USSR, etc. :thumbup1:


No, I'm no leninist.

I'm starting to like syndicalism :cool:
i've never agreed with vanguardism in the first place

LOL Well if you were a Leninist, you'd be immediately turned off from Syndicalism, and be all for Vanguardism.

[fa2991]

Let's ease up a tad on the vanguard bashing, since syndicalism still employs a form of radical vanguardism.


In action the IWW had been the most militant, the most revolutionary section of the workers’ vanguard in this country. The IWW, while calling itself a union, was much nearer to Lenin’s conception of a party of professional revolutionists than any other organization calling itself a party at that time. In their practice, and partly also in their theory, the Wobblies were closer to Lenin’s Bolsheviks than any other group in this country.

[Pretty Flaco]

LOL Well if you were a Leninist, you'd be immediately turned off from Syndicalism, and be all for Vanguardism.

Vanguardism isn't egalitarian enough for me.

last time I checked, it was supposed to be the proletarians that rose up and broke off the chains of capitalism...

vanguards contribute to hierarchy, if you ask me. but I don't know too much

and that video posted was actually the video I saw on here before :rolleyes: but thanks for the contribution

[MooseCracker]

I don't know of many videos but reading Rudolf Rocker and updating it with a dose of Chomsky will give you a pretty good idea...
It essentially allows for maintenance of organizations (co-operative style), laws, rules, regulations, etc. agreed upon by the syndicate with equal property (including rights and responsibilities) and includes direct and equal democratic participation.

[28350]

LOL Well if you were a Leninist, you'd be immediately turned off from Syndicalism, and be all for Vanguardism.
I'm a Leninist. I like Syndicalism very much, specifically DeLeonism.
I think the class struggle is not only economic or political, but both, and the working class need to organize economically (as a union), and politically (as a party) to be most effective.


Vanguardism isn't egalitarian enough for me.
last time I checked, it was supposed to be the proletarians that rose up and broke off the chains of capitalism...

The vanguard party isn't some elite group of intellectuals / bureaucrats who feel that the masses are stupid / want to exploit the revolution. The vanguard party is the most class-conscious section of the proletariat.

[Invincible Summer]

The vanguard party isn't some elite group of intellectuals / bureaucrats who feel that the masses are stupid / want to exploit the revolution. The vanguard party is the most class-conscious section of the proletariat.

This.




Anyways, Rocker is a pain in the ass to read.

[ContrarianLemming]

Please note mister OP: Syndicalists support a form of vangaurdism, oh yes they do, the CNT-FAI considered themselves anarchist vangaurdists.
Vangaurdism is simply an organization putting itself at the centre of a movement to steer it in a desired direction, that's exactly what syndicalist anarchist organizations do.

When you say "vangaurdism" you're only refering to party vangaurdism.

[Magón]

I'm a Leninist. I like Syndicalism very much, specifically DeLeonism.
I think the class struggle is not only economic or political, but both, and the working class need to organize economically (as a union), and politically (as a party) to be most effective.

I should have been more specific, I just meant that the majority of Leninists are opposed to Syndicalism, than say a Socialist, Anarchist, etc. would be. Of course Leninists approve of Unions, but the majority is opposed to how Syndicalist Unions operate in Socialist and Anarchist fashion.

[Pretty Flaco]

Sorry for my misinterpretation!

Wait, so if syndicalism also works as a form of vanguardism, then the unions work in a similar function as the vanguard party does in a revolution? just with different tactics

[Magón]

Sorry for my misinterpretation!

Wait, so if syndicalism also works as a form of vanguardism, then the unions work in a similar function as the vanguard party does in a revolution? just with different tactics

You could practically call anything a Vanguard, but like in the video that fa2991 posted, the old Spanish Anarchist guy said that all the workers took it upon themselves, rather than a small elite little group of more "class conscious" workers. Syndicalism is just the formation of Trade Unions, in which to gather and focus all the workers together, and help them get organized and get their thoughts in order. Besides that, it's supposed to be the workers of the Syndicalist Trade Unions, that say where to take it all, etc.