Mexicans beaten over anti-immigrant tensions

[Tablo]

rwh06__2HRM

This is horrifying. I know some of this stuff has been going on, but how serious is the divide between black and hispanic communities?

[Magón]

Depends on where you are. Obviously in NY, the divide seems to be larger, than say in California, or just the general West Coast United States. Most Blacks and Hispanics here, we all get along fine, with of course the racial gangs being taken out of the equation since their's isn't really race related. I've been in NYC for the past couple days, and haven't been harassed by any Blacks on the street, nor have I seen such acts against either race been commited.

I think the reporter, and those asked, put it probably the best. At least for the NY Area. In California, I think it's still segregated, because obviously there's the black, white, and hispanic neighborhoods, but depending on where you go, and who you see, it's often non-confrontational. Especially when you're a black or hispanic driving through a white area. They kinda just drop their mouths in awe. :lol: (Not always, but they do give a weird feeling when you drive by.)

[Tablo]

All right. Thanks for the insight. :)

[¿Que?]

There's always been tensions between blacks and Latinos. I would venture to guess that the whole notion of a unified "people of color" movement, has for the most part been fabricated by the left, not necessarily from a misguided or diluted understanding of race relations, but because the more advanced sectors of the black and Latino community understood that a unified movement had a greater chance of success than one fractured around race.

That being said, let's consider how black predominantly reacted (or were represented as reacting) to the influx of Asian businesses in mostly black neighborhoods. There was nothing that could remotely be considered unity. But let's also remember that the knife cut both ways. I would venture to guess that Asians also had some very negative and typically racist views of blacks.

The same can be said of Latinos. As a Latino person myself, I can say with a high degree of certainty that a lot of Latinos have very antiquated and prejudiced views about blacks. Given the choice, most Latinos will self identify as closer to white than black, to the extent that Latino (or if you prefer the racially charged term, Hispanic) is no longer considered a race in many institutional settings, but rather it is considered an ethnicity. The last two Censuses, for example, do not include hispanic or latino as a racial category but as an ethnic category instead. So Latinos choose their nation of origin on the ethnic question, then choose a race afterwards, usually white, black or native american.

The video reveals something a little more troubling than random acts of violence by disaffected youths of color in poor neighborhoods. I don't doubt that the attacks were racially motivated, but the problem has more to do with popular ideas about race that even people of color hold. And the really real problem is how journalism, as an institution, does absolutely nothing to challenge these ideas and truly edify the public, instead opting for a "just the facts" mentality which makes no effort to scrutinize the ways race categories are constructed in discourse. This is similar to positivist attitudes in science, who mostly hold that the meaning of words are for the most part cut and dry, and that deconstructing language is a useless endeavor that only intellectually indolent and dishonest postmodernists engage in.

And it shows especially at the beginning when the anchor woman used the term "minority" as a blanket term for all non-whites. We can argue the usefulness of a term such as "people of color" and come up with certain conclusions about its usefulness for the liberation of the communities in question. However, the majority/minority dichotomy has largely been abandoned by serious race theorists, and even dominant/subordinate is en route to extinction. It seems that by the time journalists and the general public adopt the dominant/subordinate conception (if they ever do), serious race theorists will have abandoned that terminology as well.

The problem is that people simply don't understand that race is socially constructed. If one were to take a survey today, in the year 2010, I think you'd still find a large majority of people, black, white, latino or whatever, still believe that there is a biological basis for race categories. And this is the problem. This needs to be repeated ad nauseum every time the issue of race is brought up. RACE IS SOCIALLY CONSTRUCTED! RACE IS SOCIALLY CONSTRUCTED! RACE IS SOCIALLY CONSTRUCTED! RACE IS SOCIALLY CONSTRUCTED!RACE IS SOCIALLY CONSTRUCTED!RACE IS SOCIALLY CONSTRUCTED!RACE IS SOCIALLY CONSTRUCTED!RACE IS SOCIALLY CONSTRUCTED!RACE IS SOCIALLY CONSTRUCTED!RACE IS SOCIALLY CONSTRUCTED!RACE IS SOCIALLY CONSTRUCTED!RACE IS SOCIALLY CONSTRUCTED!RACE IS SOCIALLY CONSTRUCTED!RACE IS SOCIALLY CONSTRUCTED!RACE IS SOCIALLY CONSTRUCTED!RACE IS SOCIALLY CONSTRUCTED!RACE IS SOCIALLY CONSTRUCTED!RACE IS SOCIALLY CONSTRUCTED!RACE IS SOCIALLY CONSTRUCTED!RACE IS SOCIALLY CONSTRUCTED!RACE IS SOCIALLY CONSTRUCTED!RACE IS SOCIALLY CONSTRUCTED!RACE IS SOCIALLY CONSTRUCTED!RACE IS SOCIALLY CONSTRUCTED!RACE IS SOCIALLY CONSTRUCTED!RACE IS SOCIALLY CONSTRUCTED!RACE IS SOCIALLY CONSTRUCTED!RACE IS SOCIALLY CONSTRUCTED!RACE IS SOCIALLY CONSTRUCTED!RACE IS SOCIALLY CONSTRUCTED!RACE IS SOCIALLY CONSTRUCTED!RACE IS SOCIALLY CONSTRUCTED!RACE IS SOCIALLY CONSTRUCTED!RACE IS SOCIALLY CONSTRUCTED!RACE IS SOCIALLY CONSTRUCTED!RACE IS SOCIALLY CONSTRUCTED! ETC.

[Jimmie Higgins]

but how serious is the divide between black and hispanic communities?

Black-Latino tensions exist, but they are more hyped by the media than anything else. It doesn't mean much on the personal level, but on a social level, it's not like black groups are organzing against latinos... it's more in the kind of petty distrust and bigotry level.

I think a lot of this tension is constructed. In my neighborhood, Latino gangs target migrants for robbery (because day-laboring migrants tend to carry or hide all the cash they make) and can be hostile to rural people from Mexico and Central America. When black gangs do the same thing, the media talks about black on Latino hatred.

Also much of this tension between various ethnic gangs in California comes from the fact that gangs are segregated racially in the prison system here. This directly pits ethnic gangs against each-other because they are competing for control of contraband or access from guards to cell-phones and so on inside. Even if you do not believe that CA prisons do this to deliberately promote racism, it's pretty clear that just on a divide and rule basis they have an interest in maintaining racial divisions.

For other organized racism between Blacks and Latinos it's important to note how the right-wing is deliberately trying to pit blacks against immigrants and blacks and Latinos against LGBT people.

So, essentially, yes there is hatred and mistrust and slurs between all working class groups in US society, but that's because life is hard and we are forced to compete against each-other. But the organized attempts to pit groups against eachother is not a natural phenomena, these divisions are encouraged from institutions and the top of our society.

After both the first immigrant rights marches and Obama's election, my neighborhhod in Oakland was thick with racial solidarity between all groups. When the first immigrant rights march happened, I saw these young black guys get out of their car, jump on the hood and put their fists in the air. One of the latino marchers ran out from the march and jumped up with them and was shouting about how "this is how it should be, everybody together". Racial profiling hits Arabs/Latinos/blacks and it was members of the Black Student Union in a community college in Oakland who promoted a boycott of Arizona, so IMO there is a great potential to build white/black/LGBT/latino/immigrant/Asian/Arab solidarity in this country when we approach these things on a class basis.

[Jimmie Higgins]

RACE IS SOCIALLY CONSTRUCTED!So is money, but it won't get us very far with the working class to promote the idea: "Hey, money doesn't matter! Ignore it - it's a social construct".

In other words, while objectively race does not exist, subjectively it plays a big part in our lives in the US.

[¿Que?]

So is money, but it won't get us very far with the working class to promote the idea: "Hey, money doesn't matter! Ignore it - it's a social construct".

In other words, while objectively race does not exist, subjectively it plays a big part in our lives in the US.
Right. This is essentially the argument Marx made against Stirner in the German Ideology, is it not?

The only thing I take issue with in your comment is that you seem to imply that social constructs are not objective. They are not material because they are not fixed, rigid and bounded. But I prefer to consider them as processes and as such they are objective conditions.

That's not to say that there isn't a subjective dimension to race. There is. But most of us are racialized by external forces, that is, we do not choose our race.

[DragonQuestWes]

That just makes me absolutely fucking sick. What in the fucked up fuck.

I'm not really saying that I'm surprised by these kinds of tensions between blacks and hispanics, I do support 100% racial equality like any normal person would, but any black person who parrots any rhetoric from a white racist does not deserve to even be black. I'm sorry to say but that's just really... fuck I don't really know what to say, but anyone noticed that one black girl said that "they [the immigrants] commit crimes?"

If I recall, Malcom X had a term for blacks that choose to be suck-ups to the whites. Was it "House Negroes" if I'm not mistaken?

My sympathy goes to both the black and hispanic communities as a whole because of a few bad apples from both communities.

[Tablo]

Well I'm glad that actual conflit between the black and hispanic communities isn't as big as RTAmerica says. I wish I had better insight, but that is hard on a college campus.

[Hiero]

That just makes me absolutely fucking sick. What in the fucked up fuck.

I'm not really saying that I'm surprised by these kinds of tensions between blacks and hispanics, I do support 100% racial equality like any normal person would, but any black person who parrots any rhetoric from a white racist does not deserve to even be black. I'm sorry to say but that's just really... fuck I don't really know what to say, but anyone noticed that one black girl said that "they [the immigrants] commit crimes?"


If I recall, Malcom X had a term for blacks that choose to be suck-ups to the whites. Was it "House Negroes" if I'm not mistaken?

My sympathy goes to both the black and hispanic communities as a whole because of a few bad apples from both communities.

I think this might be a misappropriation of the term.

There is a definite racism of working class people which is often ignored by the left. It rather assumes that racism that workers express is ideological manipulation by the bourgeoisie. Or the left simply critiques the context and not the background.

I believe that worker class racism is an ideaology that expresses misfortunes. The racism of this one black lady is more similar to the racism of another white worker, or Black South African Against against Zimbabwe immigrant, or any disenfranchised group against another. So she is not parroting, she is expressing her grievances thorugh racial and national thinking. That is, this is a person with real problems not a mime of the undesirable aspects of white culture.

The goal would be to address people's grievances, "ok so you don't have a job?" rather then call them a "house negro". Nor would I suggest strangly deny that they are Black, which would creepily charactise Black people in historic radical roles (you are either Huey or your Angela).

I believe Malcolm X used to describe a labour aristocracy and middle, bourgeious African-Americans who invision the Liberal American dream. Not the racism of working whites.

[Obzervi]

The fucked up thing is that by fighting each other the blacks and hispanics are only serving the interests of White Supremacy in the United States. They should be working together against the white overclass which is oppressing them and hides behind their high walls in gated communities in order to protect themselves from any sort of backlash from the working class. If blacks and hispanics shifted their gaze towards the rich whites who are dividing them they could get a lot more constructive things done.

[Bad Grrrl Agro]

that them thar damn mexicans! tryin to take ar jobs, ar flag, ar bible and ar country!:rolleyes:

[Omnia Sunt Communia]

I think that the importance of addressing racism among Black, Latino and Asian communities should not be under-emphasized. Clearly there is no homogeneous community of 'people of color'.