Bana

[Tablo]

I thought this groups of racists were dead... >.>

G2jgC3GwWlI

[Adi Shankara]

I lul'd. What's a national anarchist anyways? isn't that an oxymoronic phrase?

[Os Cangaceiros]

They exist in the same magical world that elves, woodland faeries and anarcho capitalists live in.

[Kléber]

Not dead. The organization, or rather the leader, the two being the same thing, had a nervous breakdown a while ago but I guess he/it recovered. RT must have fallen for his Nechaev-esque bullshitting about having a secret army of "like-minded individuals and grassroots organizations worldwide" at his beck and call.. either that or they just felt like giving a shoutout to teabag falangists.

[Tablo]

Hmm, alright. I love how RTAmerica loves to interview right-wing nuts to make it seem like America is falling apart. xD

[Os Cangaceiros]

Nechaev-esque bullshitting

how dare you speak of Him in such a manner

[Ele'ill]

They exist in the same magical world that elves, woodland faeries and anarcho capitalists live in.


Do you seriously think that elves and woodland faeries don't exist?

[Pirate Utopian]

Fuck yeah, Machete is out! I hope it's as good as trailers made it seem.

[Os Cangaceiros]

It probably won't be as good as Black Dynamite.

[Pirate Utopian]

True but that's because Black Dynamite is one of the greatest movies ever made.

[Jimmie Higgins]

I lul'd. What's a national anarchist anyways? isn't that an oxymoronic phrase?Yeah I'm sure someone said that about National Socialism and National Syndicalism - but now in the US a sizable number of people actually believe that National Socialism is a kind of socialism.

Considering most regular people don't know anything about the radical class-based politics of anarchism and confuse it with both libertarianism and "chaos", having "national anarchists" is not a good development.

[777]

Sorry to say, but I think you guys have a really limited view of what National-Anarchism is. You had better get used to it because within the next ten years it IS going to become a dominant Nationalist force.

First of all, National Anarchists and Autonomous Nationalists are not yopur typical Nazis. You can't use the same tired arguments on them as you do with other Nazis.

Most of the people involved in such groups are actually quite intelligent. They are not braindead skins who just wanna beat up ethnics. No, these people actually respect different cultures. Or rather, they respect the existence of other cultures.

When you really examine their plans they are not that immoral, just misguided. In fact, these people are committed to revolutionary change! They genuinely want a better society, they just don't want to lose their ethnic identity.

Is that so bad?

Creating a dialogue with these people is important. I know because I set up a group in the UK of a similar nature and it was only through dialogue with a prominent Anarcho-syndicalist in my area that I came around and want to dedicate myself fully to the left.

All the basics are there: a want of de-centralized power structure, an egalitarian society, workers rights, autonomous sub-gorups... whatever.

My point is that these people aren't your run of the mill bigots. They genuinely want a better society. It is up to us to show them that they can have a better society wile still maintaining their ethnic identity.

[Lenina Rosenweg]

Andrew Yeoman leads an NA forum which mostly consists of himself ranting about "multi culturalism" and how terrible it was to have "tolerance rammed down" his throat growing up.I can empathize. Its tough growing up and having to hear teachers tell you why you should be nice to black and brown people and why it may be offensive to beat up gays and trannys.Seriously though I wasn't all that impressed by Yeoman's intellectual acumen.

As far as I can tell my ancestors trace back to the north of England and Germany. Genealogy is interesting and I've dabbled in Celtic lore and history. Right now though I feel I have far more in common with the African, African-American, Italian, Irish, and Hispanic co-workers I work with. Its neither here nor there if one of my ancestors was a Sassanach raider, a Viking marauder, a Pictish warrior, or a Frankish peasant. What matters is the lived reality of today.

Andrew Yeoman's "tendency" like his forum, seems to consist of his not terribly bright self. He's following his mentor Troy Southgate in his tacit racism while appealing to youthful anti-authoritarianism.


When you really examine their plans they are not that immoral, just misguided. In fact, these people are committed to revolutionary change! They genuinely want a better society, they just don't want to lose their ethnic identity.

Is that so bad?

Creating a dialogue with these people is important. I know because I set up a group in the UK of a similar nature and it was only through dialogue with a prominent Anarcho-syndicalist in my area that I came around and want to dedicate myself fully to the left.

All the basics are there: a want of de-centralized power structure, an egalitarian society, workers rights, autonomous sub-gorups... whatever.

My point is that these people aren't your run of the mill bigots. They genuinely want a better society. It is up to us to show them that they can have a better society wile still maintaining their ethnic identity.

In the US the "national anarchists" are tiny. The important point is that we've already lost our ethnic identity. Marx talked about how national bonds are stripped from the working class.Whatever importance "ethnic identity" may once have had, say in terms of the communal societies of Scotland and England in 19th century and then the rest of the world is long gone. Marx wrote about this very poetically in the Manifesto.Each worker has only his skill set and labor power to confront the employer with. Although racism is fostered and encouraged under capitalism ,capital itself is non-racial and thoroughly international. We need to be as well.

[777]

Andrew Yeoman leads an NA forum which mostly consists of himself ranting about "multi culturalism" and how terrible it was to have "tolerance rammed down" his throat growing up.I can empathize. Its tough growing up and having to hear teachers tell you why you should be nice to black and brown people and why it may be offensive to beat up gays and trannys.Seriously though I wasn't all that impressed by Yeoman's intellectual acumen.

As far as I can tell my ancestors trace back to the north of England and Germany. Genealogy is interesting and I've dabbled in Celtic lore and history. Right now though I feel I have far more in common with the African, African-American, Italian, Irish, and Hispanic co-workers I work with. Its neither here nor there if one of my ancestors was a Sassanach raider, a Viking marauder, a Pictish warrior, or a Frankish peasant. What matters is the lived reality of today.

Andrew Yeoman's "tendency" like his forum, seems to consist of his not terribly bright self. He's following his mentor Troy Southgate in his tacit racism while appealing to youthful anti-authoritarianism.

Troy is actually quite a nice gut and I can emphasize with him on a cerain level.

The thing is, multi-culturalism sucks. It's a bad thing and it makes people bitter.

In Europe, any ethnic based celebration for the indigenous people is immediatley ploiticized by the system and the indigenous are dis-enfranchised. This is a real thing and it should be addressed by the left. the guy who helped me convert (indirectly) posted these articles on his blogs:

http://liveraf.wordpress.com/2010/08/08/more-on-autonomous-nationalism-and-class-politics/

http://propertyistheft.wordpress.com/2010/06/21/the-argument-against-multiculturalism/

and I think these are important pieces that really criticize the left tendancy to ignore peoples ethnic identity which is in face a constitutional part of a persons psyche.

[Jimmie Higgins]

When you really examine their plans they are not that immoral, just misguided. In fact, these people are committed to revolutionary change! They genuinely want a better society, they just don't want to lose their ethnic identity.

Is that so bad?Yes, it is. How would this be accomplished in the US? Really only through forced relocation. In the US, many white supremacists since at least the 1970s have been preaching a "voluntary segregation" model. They advocate relocating themselves to the North West and then eventually breaking off and making that a "white area". They always claim that they are not about subjugating blacks or homosexuals, but about celebrating "southern culture" which apparently means ignoring the experience of about 2/5 of southerners because they are black, or white southerners from mountainous regions who did not support the confederacy. So we need to look beyond the rhetoric at what they do and the role they play socially.

BANA can use all the rhetoric they want about how they are not fascists, but the facts are that threatening minority moviegoers and attending an anti-immigration protest have nothing to do with celebrating white culture, whatever that means in places like the US, and everything with enforcing a social set-up of non-white social oppression and inferiority. If they claim they protest immigration in order to "protect" "white culture" from being influenced or replaced by "latino culture" - they logically they would also have to protest genertification and white people moving into black dominated areas. Why don't they protest this? Because they assume that everything already belongs to "white culture" by default.

If we can win people away on an individual level like what happened with you, then great, but aside from some anarchists who socially meet up with BANA and are just confused, we are not going to convince the hard-core of anything. You're right, they are smart - at least smart enough to know that the old model of fascism in the US isn't attractive to people in places like San Francisco where populations are much more fluid and intermingled demographically.

But I think concentrating on winning them away from fascism is much more difficult than winning people in their audience to working class radicalism and anti-racism. This means wining the "soft-anarchists" and liberals to class-based, anti-racist anarchism and socialism.

[Tablo]

Troy is actually quite a nice gut and I can emphasize with him on a cerain level.

The thing is, multi-culturalism sucks. It's a bad thing and it makes people bitter.

In Europe, any ethnic based celebration for the indigenous people is immediatley ploiticized by the system and the indigenous are dis-enfranchised. This is a real thing and it should be addressed by the left. the guy who helped me convert (indirectly) posted these articles on his blogs:

http://liveraf.wordpress.com/2010/08/08/more-on-autonomous-nationalism-and-class-politics/

http://propertyistheft.wordpress.com/2010/06/21/the-argument-against-multiculturalism/

and I think these are important pieces that really criticize the left tendancy to ignore peoples ethnic identity which is in face a constitutional part of a persons psyche.
What? Their entire ideology is based around racism. I don't care what their good intentions are when their ideology is just some crazed racist nonsense. I will not sympathize with my enemies and I'm amazed they dragged another person into listening to their nonsense.

[Mindtoaster]

teabag falangists.

I really like this

[777]

What? Their entire ideology is based around racism. I don't care what their good intentions are when their ideology is just some crazed racist nonsense. I will not sympathize with my enemies and I'm amazed they dragged another person into listening to their nonsense.

Race is a fact.... it's what you do with that fact that counts. These people aren't just bigots who hate other races. They actually appreciate different cultures, but in their own context.

If you just nonsense everything that you don't agree with then you won't get far...

[777]

Yes, it is. How would this be accomplished in the US? Really only through forced relocation.

I have never understood American Nazis, they have no link to the blood and soil doctrine....

Well, I suppos ethey aren't after a state, but local co-ops where white people can form their own groups on a voluntary basis.


BANA can use all the rhetoric they want about how they are not fascists, but the facts are that threatening minority moviegoers and attending an anti-immigration protest have nothing to do with celebrating white culture, whatever that means in places like the US, and everything with enforcing a social set-up of non-white social oppression and inferiority.

First of all, from their point of view, they aren't threatening anybody. that is a paranoid leftists assumption. I think this is the film about Mandella, right? if it is, then that guy is not a hero but a racist. He and his wife celebrated the death of white people and encouraged it. The movie celebrates a racist terrorist. It is right to protest it.



If we can win people away on an individual level like what happened with you, then great, but aside from some anarchists who socially meet up with BANA and are just confused, we are not going to convince the hard-core of anything.

Fuck the hard-core... they are the idiots who won't ever lead nationalism anywhere. ANS are the future and they are dangerous because they make sense on a number of issues. And it ain't just rhetoric. It's the working class who actually like their ethnicity that we need to win over. For too long the left have been trying to diminish the germanic ethnicity and make it into an evil phantom that must be eliminated. Most people don't see that. These ANS play on that. There's a HUGE chunk of society that can be radicalised by the left by simply acknowledging that ethnicity and class can work together.


You're right, they are smart - at least smart enough to know that the old model of fascism in the US isn't attractive to people in places like San Francisco where populations are much more fluid and intermingled demographically.


But they aren't even after a state! They want autonomous groups. This must be realized so that we can offer an alternative.


But I think concentrating on winning them away from fascism is much more difficult than winning people in their audience to working class radicalism and anti-racism. This means wining the "soft-anarchists" and liberals to class-based, anti-racist anarchism and socialism.

All part of the game matey. It is their audience we need to focus on. they do hold an appeal to the youth. Blood&Honour and old fashioned Nazi orgs are dying out and this is the sort that will replace them We need to form our arguments quickly. We can defeat them with reason, they are already halfway there. It speaks volumes about human evolution that even these once hardcore racists are ready to talk about class.


I think Autonomous Nationalists offer hope, hope which we should all sieze upon :thumbup1:

[Tablo]

Race is a fact.... it's what you do with that fact that counts. These people aren't just bigots who hate other races. They actually appreciate different cultures, but in their own context.

If you just nonsense everything that you don't agree with then you won't get far...
Actually race is not a fact. Race is entirely a social construct. I have heard and read through a lot of their shit. Their kind even have membership on stormfront. They are racists. Their perspective is reactionary and works to further divide the working class. We have class warfare to worry about and all these jokers care about is their European decent. I doubt any of those nuts have even stepped foot on European soil. Their desire is to live separately from other people on racial grounds which is racist. Segregation in of itself is racist.

[bcbm]

First of all, from their point of view, they aren't threatening anybody. that is a paranoid leftists assumption. I think this is the film about Mandella, right? if it is, then that guy is not a hero but a racist. He and his wife celebrated the death of white people and encouraged it. The movie celebrates a racist terrorist. It is right to protest it.


but hey, apartheid... no biggie :rolleyes:


I think Autonomous Nationalists offer hope, hope which we should all sieze upon

yeah nothing gets me more hopeful than the development of new, more chic forms of bigotry.

[Jimmie Higgins]

First of all, from their point of view, they aren't threatening anybody. that is a paranoid leftists assumption.
They are bringing Machettes to protest with and, in the words of the organizer:


"We feel that this is an explicit threat to white folks," Yeoman wrote on the far-right blog Occidental Dissent (http://www.anonym.to/?http://www.occidentaldissent.com/2010/08/31/stop-machete/), "and that it is necessary to send a message to moviegoers and the producers of this film that threatening people because they happen to be white is unacceptable." Why use Machettes to "send a message to movie goers" if your intention is not intimidation?


I think this is the film about Mandella, right? if it is, then that guy is not a hero but a racist. He and his wife celebrated the death of white people and encouraged it. The movie celebrates a racist terrorist. It is right to protest it.What? I don't even know where to begin with that statement.

This movie is an exploitation film where a vigilante type guy (the same in all exploitation movies of this kind) is fighting racist politicians. Most of the exploitation movies from the early 70s were like this... woman takes on rapists, black person takes on a conspiracy by racist white cops... etc. The director of this movie has made several movies like this except they are only "racist" apparently if it's a Mexican guy taking on corrupt white politicians. "El Mariachi" is basically the same movie as far as I can tell, but the villains are all Mexican.


But they aren't even after a state! They want autonomous groups. This must be realized so that we can offer an alternative.Are you saying they aren't fascist because they don't believe in a centralized state?

Like I said, their "racial autonomous groups" idea is not new to the far-right in the US and in practice it would mean the patrician of India horrors time a hundred, the trail of tears times hundreds of thousands. And that's assuming that this is a mutual decision among all people - and that's a big assumption. Besides, it just is not a serious proposal... who would enforce such a monstrous proposal, who would decide what group goes where, what would happen to people who don't fit into one of the racial zones?


All part of the game matey. It is their audience we need to focus on. they do hold an appeal to the youth. Blood&Honour and old fashioned Nazi orgs are dying out and this is the sort that will replace them We need to form our arguments quickly. We can defeat them with reason, they are already halfway there. It speaks volumes about human evolution that even these once hardcore racists are ready to talk about class.


I think Autonomous Nationalists offer hope, hope which we should all sieze upon :thumbup1:But they are not talking about class at all, they want all white-zones: all white capitalists, all white workers etc. They are white supremacists in a shiny new package, but it's the same thing.

[Os Cangaceiros]

"El Mariachi" is basically the same movie as far as I can tell, but the villains are all Mexican.

Desperado is probably one of my all time favorite films.

[Chambered Word]

Troy is actually quite a nice gut and I can emphasize with him on a cerain level.

The thing is, multi-culturalism sucks. It's a bad thing and it makes people bitter.

In Europe, any ethnic based celebration for the indigenous people is immediatley ploiticized by the system and the indigenous are dis-enfranchised. This is a real thing and it should be addressed by the left. the guy who helped me convert (indirectly) posted these articles on his blogs:

http://liveraf.wordpress.com/2010/08/08/more-on-autonomous-nationalism-and-class-politics/

http://propertyistheft.wordpress.com/2010/06/21/the-argument-against-multiculturalism/

and I think these are important pieces that really criticize the left tendancy to ignore peoples ethnic identity which is in face a constitutional part of a persons psyche.

Live fast, troll hard!

[Jimmie Higgins]

Desperado is probably one of my all time favorite films.Meh. I'm not a fan of this director - I liked El Mariachi when it came out because it was like an American version of Asian action movies and because it was so low budget. I might be mistaken, but I think the director is anti-union. Anyway, I might see this movie just because the preview looks funny, but I don't have much faith in Rodriguez.

Of that whole group of retro-exploitationieers, Tarintino is the only one I have enjoyed. His politics seem shit, he often just parrots much better international or underground movies, but some of it is really enjoyable and at least he is really cinematically literate. He dosn't just hack from other films, he knows what made those hacked scenes effective in the first place and how to use that for effect - this makes him better than a lot of directors who wear their influences on their sleeves. I loved seeing Kurt Russel's misanthropic and misogynist character get the shit kicked out of him in "Death Proof" and "Kill Bill" is just great.

But "Sin City" and "Bordello of Blood" and that zombie movie he did as the other half of "Grindhouse" were just boring in my opinion. But whatever, taste is subjective and at least he is making out-there movies rather than remakes of safe subject matter.

All these movies are revenge fantasies of some kind: raped woman taking on rapists - American Jews taking on Nazis - a middle-aged working class woman who has been used as a patsy taking on the cops, FBI, and gangsters (Jakie Brown). So it's interesting to me that this is the one that gets the flack... I think it's because of the immigrant rights movement that makes this one different. It's actually challenging (and scary to some) to have a revenge-fantasy when there is a social context where people are actually demanding rights and to be treated fairly.

[Tablo]

I love Kill Bill. Not sure why as normally action movies put me to sleep, but it is just a ridiculously fun film for me.

[Pirate Utopian]

I liked the whole Mariachi trilogy especially Once Upon A Time In Mexico.

[Magón]

I thought this groups of racists were dead... >.>

G2jgC3GwWlI

Oh my god, are you serious! I get home, relax, then BAM, this shit. Holy Hell, I had no idea Machete was a Mexican Theorist, blah, blah, blah. I liked Machete though, and thought it was funny violent.

[Os Cangaceiros]

Meh. I'm not a fan of this director - I liked El Mariachi when it came out because it was like an American version of Asian action movies and because it was so low budget. I might be mistaken, but I think the director is anti-union. Anyway, I might see this movie just because the preview looks funny, but I don't have much faith in Rodriguez.

Desperado was a great film, with the ridiculous shootouts and characters, especially Bucho as the the simultaneously sinister and totally inept drug lord, Cheech Marin and Steve Buscemi and Danny "Machete" Trejo (all of whom die violently, LOL) and Antonio Banderas as a guitar player and professional killer who has a level of invincibility that can only be compared to Chow Yun Fat in Hardboiled. Oh, and Salma Hayek, who in the mid-90s was as hot as a Mexican sidewalk.

I liked a couple of the little touches in the film that revealed that the film really was shot on location in Mexico, namely the political campaign posters that blanketed the city.


Of that whole group of retro-exploitationieers, Tarintino is the only one I have enjoyed. His politics seem shit, he often just parrots much better international or underground movies, but some of it is really enjoyable and at least he is really cinematically literate. He dosn't just hack from other films, he knows what made those hacked scenes effective in the first place and how to use that for effect - this makes him better than a lot of directors who wear their influences on their sleeves. I loved seeing Kurt Russel's misanthropic and misogynist character get the shit kicked out of him in "Death Proof" and "Kill Bill" is just great.

I didn't really like Grindhouse, to tell you the truth...it seemed more like a grotesque pantomime of actual exploitation than anything else. I think that both Rodriguez and Tarantino missed the point of those older films, in a big big way.

However, there have been some actual good throwback films in recent years, Black Dynamite, House of the Devil and Run! ***** Run! amoung them, as well as a number of others.

[Pirate Utopian]

I didn't really like Grindhouse, to tell you the truth...it seemed more like a grotesque pantomime of actual exploitation than anything else. I think that both Rodriguez and Tarantino missed the point of those older films, in a big big way.

However, there have been some actual good throwback films in recent years, Black Dynamite, House of the Devil and Run! ***** Run! amoung them, as well as a number of others.
I liked Grindhouse, Planet Terror wasnt all that but it was okay. The trailers really made the movie.

Also I'll just post this trailer here too:
CROq3yeqdRo
Yes, they'll make a real movie out of this.

[Os Cangaceiros]

Rutger Hauer participating in another masterpiece, I see.

Pride of the fucking Netherlands right thar.

[Kléber]

Best movie ever is Mirror Wars. Forget that pastiche of no-name losers Con Air. Just check out the cast on this one.. McDowell. Hauer. Assante. The unholy trinity. You know this gotta be good.

http://www.videoswap.com.au/august%2010/MIRROR.jpg

srsly tho, mariachi was good, desperado sucked and once upon a time was ok. tarantino is a derivative orientalist slug

so the movie premiered.. what happened? did mr. BANANA, his three nazi bear friends, and the "vast network of individuals and organizations" make their show of force? or were they hacked to death in a rwanda-inspired killing spree by "people like machete" never to stink up the bay area again?

[Os Cangaceiros]

Best movie ever is Mirror Wars. Forget that pastiche of no-name losers Con Air. Just check out the cast on this one.. McDowell. Hauer. Assante. The unholy trinity. You know this gotta be good.

I can't believe that I haven't seen that yet.

I have seen The Hitcher (masterpiece beyond compare) and New World Disorder (turd beyond compare), though.


desperado sucked

Oh no you di'int.

[Pirate Utopian]

Desperado was cool.

Rutger Hauer participating in another masterpiece, I see.

Pride of the fucking Netherlands right thar.
Besides me obviously.

[Os Cangaceiros]

You come in 3rd behind Verhoeven.

[this is an invasion]

They didn't have machetes at their protest.

what a bunch of NERDS.


Also, if you look at the projects and actions BANA is engaged in, they are really nothing more than racist liberals that are trying to co-opt the hip image of anarchism. The problem is (for them) that their "ideology" is completely incoherent.

[Jimmie Higgins]

The problem is (for them) that their "ideology" is completely incoherent.Well that's fascism for you. They'll use anything to preserve what they see as the natural order of things... Roman-Empire nostalgia in Italy, myths of some aryan golden-age in Germany, Catholicism in Spain, Hinduism in India, USSR-nostalgia in Russia today, and in the US: civil war and revolutionary war myths, frontiersmen myths etc.