13 Palestinian Armed Groups Unite For Operations

[The Vegan Marxist]

Gaza militants warn of further attacks as peace talks get underway
By Reuters
03.09.10

Palestinian militant groups have joined forces to step up attacks against Israel, possibly including suicide bombings, the Hamas Islamist faction said on Thursday, after Palestinian and Israeli leaders launched direct peace negotiations in Washington.

A spokesman for Hamas, which controls the Gaza Strip, said some 13 militant groups had joined forces to launch “more effective attacks” against Israel. Asked if this included suicide bombings, he said: “All options are open.”

The declaration came hours after Palestinian Authority security forces detained two men in the West Bank suspected of involvement in a deadly shooting attack in which four Israelis were killed earlier this week.

The four were traveling in a car on route 60 late Tuesday when assailants opened fire at them. Following the incident, Palestinian security forces in the West Bank carried out one of the largest arrest sweeps in history, bringing in over 300 suspects in efforts to locate the culprits.

On Wednesday, one day after the deadly shooting attack, assailants once again opened fire at an Israeli vehicle at Rimonim Junction, east of Ramallah. Two people were wounded in the attack.

On Thursday evening, a 12-year-old Israeli girl was moderately wounded when assailants hurled rocks at a car she was traveling in near the West Bank settlement of Ariel.

The spate of attacks coincided with the launch of U.S.-backed direct peace talks between Israel and the Palestinians in Washington. Hamas have come out vocally against the talks, claiming responsibility for the shooting attacks and warning of further attacks.

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/gaza-militants-warn-of-further-attacks-as-peace-talks-get-underway-1.311915

[Sasha]

i heard an fatah splinter was involved but that for the rest its mostly islamist orientated groups.
anyone know what the PFLP's stance on this union is?

[Peter The Painter]

Fuck Hamas, they are murdering bastards, who value patriachy and uphold the Sharia, they are just as evil as the zionist Invaders.

More and more, the just and anti imperialist cause in Palestine is turning into a religeous war, with Islamic extremism ruining lives.

Like last year, when Hamas defended the forced marrige of a seven year old, aswell as her husban raping her, they agree with stoning adulterers, fuck that.

And to all those who say

"But Peter,they were elected"

Well so was blair, he was a murderous prick, and all leftists denounced him.

It seems, just because Islamic nations are under imperialist oppression, we need to defend Islam.

Fuck Islam

Fuck Christianity

Fuck Millitant Atheism

Any religeous belief, or antitheist belief, that advocates Patriachy, murder rape and the supression of peoples actions.

I would not want to live under Israeli occupation, but i would just as equally not want to live under a theocracy where i will be stoned to death, and if I am a communistt, tortured.

[The Vegan Marxist]

Fuck Hamas, they are murdering bastards, who value patriachy and uphold the Sharia, they are just as evil as the zionist Invaders.

More and more, the just and anti imperialist cause in Palestine is turning into a religeous war, with Islamic extremism ruining lives.

Like last year, when Hamas defended the forced marrige of a seven year old, aswell as her husban raping her, they agree with stoning adulterers, fuck that.

And to all those who say

"But Peter,they were elected"

Well so was blair, he was a murderous prick, and all leftists denounced him.

It seems, just because Islamic nations are under imperialist oppression, we need to defend Islam.

Fuck Islam

Fuck Christianity

Fuck Millitant Atheism

Any religeous belief, or antitheist belief, that advocates Patriachy, murder rape and the supression of peoples actions.

I would not want to live under Israeli occupation, but i would just as equally not want to live under a theocracy where i will be stoned to death, and if I am a communistt, tortured.

The anti-imperialist cause in Palestine is not solely with the Hamas. There's more militant anti-imperialist groups in Palestine, if combined together will be larger than the Hamas, that are secular to religion. The Hamas is the only religious anti-imperialist group within Palestine.

[Sasha]

. The Hamas is the only religious anti-imperialist group within Palestine.

wut?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Palestinian_militant_groups

even the al-aqsa brigades,the armed wing of Fatah (wich as an party still has some secular and christian members), is dripping of religious islamic fundamentalism

[Peter The Painter]

I support the palestinian, and israeli proletariat, to sort this out themselves,after one, or both, have had their revolution.

Nation states are all illegitimate, so just screaming, Israel has no right to exist is stupid, because neither does palestine, Iraq England, Brazil, OR ANY NATION AT ALL!

The proletariat will not be free nder a palestinian state, or a israeli state.

The answer is to wait for it.... wait for it...

SMASH THE STATE!

[freepalestine]

this was just a publicity stunt by hamas nothing said was really new.also the only other islamist are p.i.j. -as for al aqsa brigades (and other fatah groups they are secular nationalists.they arent islamist,as someone wrongly said.)they said later that they wernt at that news meeting-i dont know if dflp or pflp were there.

[Sam_b]

Fuck Hamas, they are murdering bastards, who value patriachy and uphold the Sharia, they are just as evil as the zionist Invaders.

What a load of crap.

[The Vegan Marxist]

wut?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Palestinian_militant_groups

even the al-aqsa brigades,the armed wing of Fatah (wich as an party still has some secular and christian members), is dripping of religious islamic fundamentalism

That don't mean the group, as a whole, represents these ideas. Just because there's some members who are religious, they are part of an organization & abide by the majority's decision on how the party plays its role.

These are the results of the last Palestinian legislative election (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_legislative_election,_2006):

Hamas (Islamist) 44.45
Fatah (left-wing nationalist) 41.43
Martyr Abu Ali Mustafa - Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (Marxist-Leninist) 4.25
The Alternative (al-Badeel) - Democratic Front for the Liberation of Palestine, Palestinian People's Party, Palestine Democratic Union & Independents (Eurocommunist) 2.92
Independent Palestine - Palestinian National Initiative & Independents (post-Communist, center/center-left) 2.72
Third Way (liberal) 2.41

So, as you can see, as I correctly pointed out, the Hamas is the only one that's religious through its rulings.

[The Vegan Marxist]

i heard an fatah splinter was involved but that for the rest its mostly islamist orientated groups.
anyone know what the PFLP's stance on this union is?

I actually just read this article, & it's a bit unclear whether the PFLP joined, but it would seem that since the PFLP have spoken against the Hamas' leadership in falling for the false Israeli "peace negotiations", although upset with the Hamas, they are clearly against Israel in full circle:


More than a dozen Palestinian militant groups on Thursday pledged to step up joint and separate attacks on Israeli targets to foil Israeli-Palestinian peace negotiations kicking off in Washington Thursday, Xinhua reported.

"The factions agreed that all means are open to the Palestinian resistance to deal with Israel in the coming phase," Abu Obaida, spokesman of the Hamas armed wing, read a statement of the Gaza- based groups in a press conference held in the Gaza Strip.

On Tuesday, Hamas militants killed four Israeli settlers near the West Bank city of Hebron. The next day, Hamas claimed responsibility for another drive-by shooting in which two Israelis were injured near Ramallah.

Armed groups, including the Islamic Jihad movement, the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP) and the Democratic Front for the Liberation of Palestine (DFLP), who participated in the conference, blamed the Palestinian leadership for accepting the negotiations without an Israeli commitment not to continuing Jewish settlement in the occupied Palestinian territories.

On Aug. 30, the factions met "and agreed to bring the Palestinian resistance into an advanced phase of high-level coordination for effective work against Israel," Abu Obaida said.

"The escalation comes to reject all shameful projects that include dangerous concessions and to stand against all conspiracies that target the Palestinian rights through playful negotiations," he added.

The statement also called on the Palestinian National Authority (PNA) to stop cracking down against Hamas supporters, the number of whom have increased in the wake of the attacks on the settlers. Hamas said that up to 550 supporters had been arrested during the last couple of days.

http://en.trend.az/news/arisc/1745152.html

[The Vegan Marxist]

Clearly the PFLP have called for the continuation of armed struggle against Israel, & to directly oppose the false "peace negotiations":


PFLP salutes military resistance in Al-Khalil and calls for escalation

The Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine praised the Palestinian resistance's military operation against illegal racist settlers in Al-Khalil on September 1, 2010, saying that it was a heroic action that reinforces that our people's resistance to the occupation and the settlers' crimes againt our people and our land is steadfast, and that this action makes clear that the Palestinian people's resistance is the main road to restore our rights and liberate or land, not the path of negotiations, concessions, and liquidation of Palestinian national rights.

Furthermore, the PFLP strongly condemned the actions of the Palestinian Authority security apparatus, which coordinated with the occupation to arrest hundreds of Palestinians, particularly activists and members of the resistance, after this operation. The PFLP demanded an end to such arrests, the freedom of all such detainees, and confirmed that resistance - not negotiations - is our only option for steadfastness, unity, and confrontation of the occupier.

Comrade Abdel-Alim Da'na, a leader of the PFLP in Khalil, said in a radio interview that the operation against the settlers - in which 4 racist settlers were killed at Bani Naim - represents "the normal and expected reaction" of a people exposed to constant violent assaults from the racist and fascist settlers. He discussed the proliferation of settler violence in Al-Khalil, and how racist and fascist settler violence is assisted by the Israeli Border Police.

Commenting on the impact of this operation on the launch of direct negotiations between the PA and the occupation state, Comrade Da'na said that "these negotiations have already failed, and have been rejected by the Palestinian people and Palestinian factions, and are an unwelome imposition forced upon our people." He called upon people to participate in events and demonstrations called by Palestinian Left forces against the negotiations, condemning the attack by PA security forces on last week's conference against the negotiations, calling the attackers a "band of thugs."

Comrade Emad Abu Rahma, a member of the Central Committee of the PFLP, called for increasing military resistance to occupation, calling upon all military forces of the Palestinian resistance and in particular the Abu Ali Mustafa Brigades, to increase resistance operations. He said that this is "our responsibility in the face of the official political charade of negotiations and concessions." During a speech at a mass protest called by the Preparatory Committee of the National Conference Against Direct Negotiations in Gaza City, Comrade Abu Rahma said that the negotiations are part of a U.S./Israeli plan to liquidate the Palestinian cause.

He said that Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas was illustrating his complete adherence to the path of negotiations and deference to Israeli dictates, an absurd path that achieve nothing for the Palestinian people. Negotiations are a great danger to the national rights of our people, said Comrade Abu Rahma, warning that the group who signed Oslo are reaching a high point in their willingness to provide free concessions and sign agreements accepting Israeli conditions, liquidating Palestinian rights.

The direct negotiations must be challenged and responded to as a direct threat to the national cause - with all forms of action and popular struggle. It must be clear, said Comrade Abu Rahma, that the majority of the Palestinian people will not accept any concessions of their rights. In conclusion, he emphasized that the Palestinian national movement must place its trust and reliance not on the false and misleading promises of the U.S. government and the Obama administration, but on the steadfastness and resistance of our people.

http://www.pflp.ps/english/?q=pflp-salutes-military-resistance-al-khalil-and-cal

[freepalestine]

the seriousness of the socalled p.a. in attending these talks maybe worse than oslo.the p.a. have been in unity talkr for the past year or two with hamas etc.of which no unity was achieved.these new talks prove that talk of unity was all a smokescreen created by the u.s.

[Peter The Painter]

For the peace talks, i heard that they were all going to go to starbucks and thrash out a deal where israel gets 96% of the land, palestine 4%

Why not just abolish Palestine and Israel and create Awesomestine :rolleyes:

[The Vegan Marxist]

For the peace talks, i heard that they were all going to go to starbucks and thrash out a deal where israel gets 96% of the land, palestine 4%

Why not just abolish Palestine and Israel and create Awesomestine :rolleyes:

Do you have anything to post on any thread that's productive whatsoever?

[Peter The Painter]

Do you have anything to post on any thread that's productive whatsoever?



I KNOW YOU ARE YOU SAID YOU ARE SO WHAT AM I

:lol:

Listen, until you stop posting stories about guerrillas, who are fucking miles away, and have nothing to do with you in any way, do not talk to me about contributing anything.

[hatzel]

The whole thing is effectively a publicity stunt intended to inhibit the peace protest, if you ask me, just like the recent shootings of the Israelis. I'll just copy-paste my post on the matter from a different forum. A Jewish forum, in fact, so my apologies if I happen to directly address Jewish readers rather than leftist readers, but I'm too lazy to change the tone:


So, as we're all obviously aware, the Americans have been busy orchestrating peace talks between the Israeli government and the PA. Excuse me for my somewhat leftist leanings, if there are some more Zionist readers in this section, but I read this article (http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/gaza-militants-warn-of-further-attacks-as-peace-talks-get-underway-1.311915) in Ha'aretz. For those interested in a more Hamas-centric view of the situation, BBC's Newsnight had this interview (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/newsnight/8967116.stm) with a Hamas spokesman. [Not entirely certain if this content is able to be viewed outside of the UK, remember that the BBC is publically-funded, but if I remember rightly, this can be viewed overseas, too)

Now, Mr Esler seems rightly sceptical, we could even say critical (though we should be careful not to suggest that there is journalistic bias in the BBC), but what do we think? Of course the timing seems very strategic. I can give my two cents, if you'd like, and I think it's a pretty obvious interpretation, so I don't expect anybody to be left reeling by my amazing insight into the situation http://www.hashkafah.com/public/style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif

Anyway, at the moment, the Palestinian cause is somewhat helped, in terms of garnering sympathy from third parties, by the perceived battle for statehood and recognition and so on. When of course we know that Hamas, and no doubt the majority of these other 12 groups (any idea which they might be?), want not only statehood for Muslim Palestine, but also the destruction of Israel. Now, we can assume that Hamas hope for both of these to be achieved simultaneously, with the destruction of Israel leaving space for the free establishment of a Muslim state. It isn't so far-fetched to suggest that a two-state solution, even one which is extremely favourable to the Muslim Palestinians (which may well be considered the aim of the PA in these talks) would be a gargantuan failure for Hamas, PFLP etc. Because, in a situation where the Muslims have full statehood, any anti-Israeli paramilitary action would meet with no sympathy, as it would be exposed entirely as intended to bring down the state of Israel; the lies that we're fed today, about statehood for the Muslims, will no longer be applicable. And how does this all link? Because, of course, Netanyahu stated clearly that security for Israel would be a prerequisite for any peace settlement. The timing of this statement from Hamas suggests that the intention is to remind the Israeli government that there will be no security. In the process, attempting to ensure that the peace talks are a failure, in order to avoid what Hamas want least: Palestinian statehood within a two-state solution.

What does anybody else think? And what do we expect will be the outcome of these talks?(There's no point answering that last question, by the way, because of course everybody know that the whole thing is just an American 'oh, look, we're doing something' load of bullshit which won't make the slightest bit of difference. Of course if you think otherwise, pipe up!)

As for the PFLP...I couldn't see them getting involved with Hamas, particularly considering Hamas have a tendency of violently oppressing any PFLP action (http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/features/what-hamas-is-really-afraid-of-1.308264). So I think we can safely assume that they will be continuing with their destroy Israel plan in their own way, rather than working together with the enemy for their shared cause. Any thoughts about that, by the way? Should all the various Arab groups advocating a single-state solution, irrespective of their opinions on other matters, pool their resources to give themselves half a chance of bringing down Israel, or am I too naïve in thinking that these groups care more about their cause, and the people they claim to be fighting for, than about their own quest for personal power? :rolleyes:

Please excuse my scepticism...

[Peter The Painter]

Krimskrams, your exactly right, Hamas do not give a shit about the people, they just want power, and to establish a islamic state, that will kill gays, adulterers and communists.

[hatzel]

This extends well beyond merely Hamas. Look at the PFLP, refusing to even contemplate negotiating a peace with Israel. And why? Because the destruction of Israel, and the creation of an Arab-dominated state covering the whole area between the Jordan river and the Mediterranean sea, is seemingly considered more important than improving the current situation for the people of Gaza or the West Bank. They may claim to be Marxist-Leninist, but I can't see how this can be taken seriously. Their support of Pan-Arabism, for instance, and their fervent criticism of any Western influence, interference or presence in the Arab / Muslim world stinks of race- and religion-based politics. Quite against the essence of their supposed ideology, if you ask me. All the anti-Israel groups in Palestine are as guilty as each other, and have little choice but to drop their unrealistic aspirations for personal power, stop quarrelling and make a decision: accept their lot and work towards the most advantageous peace with Israel, or rally together to fight Israel. As the latter would no doubt cause a great deal of suffering for the Palestinian people, before probably leading to yet another civil war between the various quarrelling groups if they are lucky enough to win the war, whilst the former would just skip straight to the civil war...well, the former seems like the better choice for the betterment of the Palestinian condition, and improve the situation for the Palestinian people. Except for the women, they'd be better off in Israel :laugh:

[freepalestine]

every palestinian is anti-israel.even the ones in the 48 borders.even the mass of bedouin,druze palestinians(who were hoodwinked under divide+rule by zionists) in the israel state are gradually seeing what israel is a racist state.a one state with out zionism is the only way we'll have peace

[hatzel]

every palestinian is anti-israel.even the ones in the 48 borders.

Ah, really? I mean, I do remember a survey from Fafo a few months ago that told that 73% of Palestinians support peace talks with the Israelis, 61% support stopping violent attacks against Israel. So saying that they are all anti-Israel is somewhat misleading, as the majority seem to support the idea of acknowledging Israel and ceasing attacks against her. As for the claim that even those within Israel's borders are anti-Israel...well, there was a survey published in As-Sennara a few years ago, to the question "would you prefer to be a citizen of Israel or a future Palestinian state", 62% of Israeli Arabs would prefer to be Israeli citizens, with only 14% saying they would want to join a Palestinian state. So I suggest you check your facts before spouting these kinds of sweeping generalisations, thank you very much.

As for the suggestion that it was Zionists who 'hoodwinked' the Druze through some kind of divide and rule strategy, well this too might be pretty well flawed in itself. Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the Muslim rulers of the area (Ottomans and so on) have a few issues with the Druze? Didn't they go marauding through Druze villages? And isn't it still a bit of an issue in Syria and Lebanon, conflict between the 'rebellious' Druze and the 'mainstream' Muslims, as well as Christians in Lebanon's case? Hell, the 'divide' part of the 'divide and rule' idea pre-dates Zionism by about 600 years. The only reason Israel treats the Druze differently from its other Muslims is because the Druze leaders made a point of demanding that they were considered separate from the other Muslims, for the aforementioned reasons, and also didn't want to be part of Pan-Arabism. Which is why they serve in the IDF and so on, by their own request, as a community, perhaps even with shades of wanting to fight against the Pan-Arabism that you seem so happy to associate them with, who knows? Maybe they consider a safe life in Israel better than a life in a Muslim country, where they are at risk of discrimination and even attack, as history has shown us...

:closedeyes:

[freepalestine]

using a poor example of polls,doesnt mean much.they should 'do you want to live in jaffa,nazareth,haifa,akka or move to jordan or west bank bantustan'?as for druze things have changed since 48 habibi-you fail to mention antizionist druze of leb,syria and growing awareness in palestine 48.

[hatzel]

using a poor example of polls,doesnt mean much.they should 'do you want to live in jaffa,nazareth,haifa,akka or move to jordan or west bank bantustan'?as for druze things have changed since 48 habibi-you fail to mention antizionist druze of leb,syria and growing awareness in palestine 48.

Why is this a poor example of polls? If four times as many Israeli Arabs want to be citizens of the Israeli state, as opposed to an Arab state, I would consider this a rather revealing poll. And a poll which can't be disregarded just because it doesn't fit in with your argument.

As for the suggestion that things have changed for the Druze since 48 (though, of course, you mean 57, when they were first given their distinctive status), and that they are now anti-Zionist...firstly, I wasn't really addressing this, I was thwarting the claim that it was the Zionists, and not their predecessors, namely Pan-Arab nationalists, who affected the 'divide'. Further to this, the Druze of Lebanon and Syria, being from Lebanon and Syria, are by definition not Palestinian, as they aren't from Palestine. So they can't be included under the statement "every palestinian is anti-israel". As for those Druze which are Palestinians...well, let's take a quote from Israeli consul general Reda Mansour, a Druze:


In Israel, Mansour says, acceptance is immediate when people realize he is Druze.

“My name is Arab, so it’s not hard to know this is not a Jewish person,” Mansour says. “But the Druze have recognition within the state of Israel because of their military service. We are the only non-Jewish minority that is drafted into the military, and we have an even higher percentage in the combat units and as officers than the Jewish members themselves. So we are considered a very nationalistic, patriotic community.”

...that might explain this, actually: haaretz.com/news/druze-circassian-forum-israel-should-remain-a-jewish-state-1.214417

Sure, I admit that there are some problems for the Druze getting employment outside of the army and certain other spheres, a fact not helped by the fact that they are Arabic-speakers in a predominantly Hebrew-speaking country. I don't think there's a country in the world where a linguistic minority has complete equality in employment and education as the linguistic majority. This is something that happens if the vast majority of schools are conducted in Hebrew, and most jobs require communicating with people in Hebrew, or reading things in Hebrew. If you don't speak Hebrew well enough, your choices will naturally be limited to the Arabic-language schools and jobs, and the range here may not be as wide as the range of Hebrew-language schools and jobs. I'm sorry about that, but it's unrealistic to expect the state of Israel to provide opportunities 50-50 to Hebrew and Arabic speakers, when the cut is 80-20. It's a natural thing to think that 80% of the school places, jobs and so on will require a good knowledge of Hebrew, and 20% a good knowledge of Arabic. I don't see anybody claiming that Finland, with it's 5% Swedish-speaking minority, is offensive and racist for only providing one Swedish language university. A university I attended, actually, and sure, maybe it's true that there is a better range of courses at the country's Finnish universities, and maybe a particular course offered at the Swedish university isn't as good as the same course, taught at one of the handful of Finnish universities. But did I complain about the system holding me back, because I don't speak the majority language of the country, that is to say Finnish? No, because something was provided to me, and that something was more than enough.

[freepalestine]

Why is this a poor example of polls? If four times as many Israeli Arabs want to be citizens of the Israeli state, as opposed to an Arab state, I would consider this a rather revealing poll. And a poll which can't be disregarded just because it doesn't fit in with your argument.

As for the suggestion that things have changed for the Druze since 48 (though, of course, you mean 57, when they were first given their distinctive status), and that they are now anti-Zionist...firstly, I wasn't really addressing this, I was thwarting the claim that it was the Zionists, and not their predecessors, namely Pan-Arab nationalists, who affected the 'divide'. Further to this, the Druze of Lebanon and Syria, being from Lebanon and Syria, are by definition not Palestinian, as they aren't from Palestine. So they can't be included under the statement "every palestinian is anti-israel". As for those Druze which are Palestinians...well, let's take a quote from Israeli consul general Reda Mansour, a Druze:



...that might explain this, actually: haaretz.com/news/druze-circassian-forum-israel-should-remain-a-jewish-state-1.214417

Sure, I admit that there are some problems for the Druze getting employment outside of the army and certain other spheres, a fact not helped by the fact that they are Arabic-speakers in a predominantly Hebrew-speaking country. I don't think there's a country in the world where a linguistic minority has complete equality in employment and education as the linguistic majority. This is something that happens if the vast majority of schools are conducted in Hebrew, and most jobs require communicating with people in Hebrew, or reading things in Hebrew. If you don't speak Hebrew well enough, your choices will naturally be limited to the Arabic-language schools and jobs, and the range here may not be as wide as the range of Hebrew-language schools and jobs. I'm sorry about that, but it's unrealistic to expect the state of Israel to provide opportunities 50-50 to Hebrew and Arabic speakers, when the cut is 80-20. It's a natural thing to think that 80% of the school places, jobs and so on will require a good knowledge of Hebrew, and 20% a good knowledge of Arabic. I don't see anybody claiming that Finland, with it's 5% Swedish-speaking minority, is offensive and racist for only providing one Swedish language university. A university I attended, actually, and sure, maybe it's true that there is a better range of courses at the country's Finnish universities, and maybe a particular course offered at the Swedish university isn't as good as the same course, taught at one of the handful of Finnish universities. But did I complain about the system holding me back, because I don't speak the majority language of the country, that is to say Finnish? No, because something was provided to me, and that something was more than enough.oh ,the impoverished[sic] swedish-speaking minority of finland.another great example to prove zionism makes sense to you.
there are evergrowing segments of the druze who are realising that zionism is a nationalism of which they aren't part of, in their "own" state.
i think you are trying to justify to yourself that isreal is something like sweden or finland.

[hatzel]

oh ,the impoverished[sic] swedish-speaking minority of finland.another great example to prove zionism makes sense to you.
there are evergrowing segments of the druze who are realising that zionism is a nationalism of which they aren't part of, in their "own" state.
i think you are trying to justify to yourself that isreal is something like sweden or finland.

Did anybody claim they were impoverished? No. And what of the non-Jews in Israel, are they impoverished? No more impoverished than the Haredi Jews, so any claim that this is some kind of racial / religious thing is totally unfounded. Lots of children, not much work, the Haredi and the Arabs are equally 'impoverished' (though compared to the other side of any border, they're far from impoverished. Rather well-to-do, in fact). Still, I refuse to accept the Druze being used in this argument, judging by the previously quoted article. The Druze who, as a community, support Israel, and are opposed to the Palestinian cause. I've read many stories of Druze who have heard from their grandparents about the pre-Israeli times, and may know about 1960's Syria, for instance, and who have vowed, never again. And this is why they are the blood-brothers of the Zionists, because, in actuality, they are fighting the same cause. And Druze survival, to be honest, is reliant on their being in a non-Islamic country, under a state that doesn't consider them heretics, worthy of being slaughtered for their religious transgression. So drawing the Druze into the Palestinian nationalism argument, even if there are some who aren't happy with Israel (as there are Jewish Israelis with the same opinion, and Palestinians who oppose their leadership) is far from conclusive, and, in truth, pretty offensive...the Druze, as a community, cannot be cited in connection to Palestinian nationalism, as they are opposed to it. They may not all be the biggest fans of the current Israeli state, but they at least recognise that a life in a Jewish country is a hell of a lot better than a life in a Muslim country. Hence they oppose any suggestion of the establishment of an Islamic state covering their territory. Druze nationalism is distinct, and would strive to create a Druze-governed state, opposed to any Palestinian state.

A comparison to Finland was made as an example of the different job and education opportunities available to a linguistic majority and a linguistic minority. I never even suggested that Finland and Israel should or could be compared in any other respect.

[freepalestine]

Did anybody claim they were impoverished? No. And what of the non-Jews in Israel, are they impoverished? No more impoverished than the Haredi Jews, so any claim that this is some kind of racial / religious thing is totally unfounded. Lots of children, not much work, the Haredi and the Arabs are equally 'impoverished' (though compared to the other side of any border, they're far from impoverished. Rather well-to-do, in fact). Still, I refuse to accept the Druze being used in this argument, judging by the previously quoted article. The Druze who, as a community, support Israel, and are opposed to the Palestinian cause. I've read many stories of Druze who have heard from their grandparents about the pre-Israeli times, and may know about 1960's Syria, for instance, and who have vowed, never again. And this is why they are the blood-brothers of the Zionists, because, in actuality, they are fighting the same cause. And Druze survival, to be honest, is reliant on their being in a non-Islamic country, under a state that doesn't consider them heretics, worthy of being slaughtered for their religious transgression. So drawing the Druze into the Palestinian nationalism argument, even if there are some who aren't happy with Israel (as there are Jewish Israelis with the same opinion, and Palestinians who oppose their leadership) is far from conclusive, and, in truth, pretty offensive...the Druze, as a community, cannot be cited in connection to Palestinian nationalism, as they are opposed to it. They may not all be the biggest fans of the current Israeli state, but they at least recognise that a life in a Jewish country is a hell of a lot better than a life in a Muslim country. Hence they oppose any suggestion of the establishment of an Islamic state covering their territory. Druze nationalism is distinct, and would strive to create a Druze-governed state, opposed to any Palestinian state.

A comparison to Finland was made as an example of the different job and education opportunities available to a linguistic majority and a linguistic minority. I never even suggested that Finland and Israel should or could be compared in any other respect.the druze i cited were /are palestinian nationalists.what makes you bring up religion all the time.palestinians arent all muslim.and youre not zionist i guess;)

[hatzel]

what makes you bring up religion all the time.palestinians arent all muslim.and youre not zionist i guess;)

Of course they aren't. Six million Palestinians are Jewish :thumbup1:

Also, Zionism isn't a religion...:confused:

[freepalestine]

No 10million are judeans-
unlike zionist state ,palestine is still a pluralistic society.
my background is christian/jew palestinian arabic

[n17yids]

It is difficult for me to show sympathy for the Palestinian cause. In Gaza, a right-wing fascist group is controlling the area and using Palestinians as bodyguards. I cannot support such a state, it is the opposite of what we see as an eventual socialist society. I am not saying Israel is perfect because yes both sides are responsible for the many deaths over the last 60 or so years. The fact is that many Israeli and Palestinian citizens a like do not condone violence and there has to be a mutual agreement. But I just cannot be a socialist and support a right-wing fascist such as Hamas.

[#FF0000]

It is difficult for me to show sympathy for the Palestinian cause. In Gaza, a right-wing fascist group is controlling the area and using Palestinians as bodyguards. I cannot support such a state, it is the opposite of what we see as an eventual socialist society. I am not saying Israel is perfect because yes both sides are responsible for the many deaths over the last 60 or so years. The fact is that many Israeli and Palestinian citizens a like do not condone violence and there has to be a mutual agreement. But I just cannot be a socialist and support a right-wing fascist such as Hamas.

Having trouble supporting Hamas is one thing but not being able to support the Palestinian cause in general sort of makes you a fool.

[thälmann]

following armed wings and groups are part of the agreement:

Hamas' Al-Qassam Brigades
Islamic Jihad's Al-Quds Brigades
Popular Resistance Committees' Salah Ad-Din Brigades
Fatah's Al-Aqsa Brigades
The Al-Sa’eqa forces, also linked to Fatah
The Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine's Abu Ali Mustafa brigades,
Jihad Jibril Brigades, also linked to the PFLP
Saif Al-Islam Brigades
Al-Ansar Brigades
Humat Al-Aqsa (Al-Aqsa protectors)

as somebody mentioned before, al aqsa brigades are not sure...

http://www.maannews.net/eng/ViewDetails.aspx?ID=312868

[Crimson Commissar]

What a load of crap.
I find it hilarious that you openly support islamism and yet still call yourself a socialist. You should at the very least be able to recognise that radical islam is NOT something we should be co-operating with.

[hatzel]

following armed wings and groups are part of the agreement:

Hamas' Al-Qassam Brigades
Islamic Jihad's Al-Quds Brigades
Popular Resistance Committees' Salah Ad-Din Brigades
Fatah's Al-Aqsa Brigades
The Al-Sa’eqa forces, also linked to Fatah
The Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine's Abu Ali Mustafa brigades,
Jihad Jibril Brigades, also linked to the PFLP
Saif Al-Islam Brigades
Al-Ansar Brigades
Humat Al-Aqsa (Al-Aqsa protectors)

as somebody mentioned before, al aqsa brigades are not sure...

http://www.maannews.net/eng/ViewDetails.aspx?ID=312868

Thanks a lot for that list! Makes pretty interesting reading, actually...I suppose it's the usual suspects, though, so we can't be too surprised...