How can I argue for the communist cause?

[Comrade Mango]

There's a group of communists at my school, and I'm trying to make more people agree.
How should I go about this? I've tried arguing valid points with them, but they just tell me that 'Castro has no idea what he's doing.....'
Any way I can counter this and make him see communism as a good/ decent thing? I'm not trying to force them or anything, I know he can be swayed, but if he chooses not to, I'll leave him be.

[Adil3tr]

I would stick with three main points.
1. Its not only that socialism hasn't been reached, The rich countries are the only ones that can achieve it because it is the next step after capitalism.
2. Communism is actually supposed to be more democratic because the workers are in direct control
3. For Marx it was suppose to be post scarcity, so we aren't paid the same, everything is free. We continue to create past the profit margin.
Hope this helps

Also, someone wouldn't be arrested for setting up a business, the business can't really compete with free.

[Zanthorus]

My only advice would be not to get too frustrated if you can't convince people. Communist consciousness on a mass scale will only be built by an upsurge in class struggle and the organisation of the working class as a class-for-itself autonomusly of capital. Simply preaching the communist message to everyone you meet is a recipe to get burned out quickly (Also a good way of alienating a lot of people).

[graymouser]

Make good points, don't worry about convincing people overnight. It takes time. Make strong points and they can work over time.

The basic problem with capitalism is that it causes crises. There are of course other problems, but you should focus on this: Castro may not know what he's doing, but the very best the capitalists can do will thrust us into periodic crises such as the one that's been going on the last few years. And workers won't ever get their due under capitalism, that's just how it is.

[Nachie]

Instead of trying to convince other people, I would focus on the group of communists you already have. What kind of things can you organize that will improve your immediate lives and strengthen this core group of people that you already have? And then what kind of things can you do that will appeal to a wider group of people or seem really interesting and so people will start to become interested in your ideas. There are probably at least a few other people who agree with you already but just don't think that forming a group or trying to convince people will accomplish anything, so you can draw them in first and foremost by just making it obvious that your communist group is accomplishing things and exists for a reason.

[Comrade Mango]

Instead of trying to convince other people, I would focus on the group of communists you already have. What kind of things can you organize that will improve your immediate lives and strengthen this core group of people that you already have? And then what kind of things can you do that will appeal to a wider group of people or seem really interesting and so people will start to become interested in your ideas. There are probably at least a few other people who agree with you already but just don't think that forming a group or trying to convince people will accomplish anything, so you can draw them in first and foremost by just making it obvious that your communist group is accomplishing things and exists for a reason.

By group I mean, not organized but, we just agree with communism.

[Peter The Painter]

Easily.

say how enough food is produced to feed the world twice over, but most of it is thrown away to avoid the price of food going down, thus rendering smaller long term profits.

Say how, in capitalism, thousands starve everyday, and there are a quater of a billion ( yes 250 million!) child slaves.

And bring up the fact, that last year, while workers were losing jobs and housing, the top handfull of hegefund managers made 25 billion.

Explain how, in a fully egalitarian society, people could have a working day of around 5 hours, and that, most menial jobs will be done by machines, as technology will be utilised by society for society.

Say how, while you and the person you are debating are talking, workers and peasants are dying in the third world, the rich are getting ever more rich, and your both achieving nothing, where as, if he were a revolutionary, he could fight the great injustices, that make any man, with an inch of humanity, shudder and scowl.

[Nachie]

By group I mean, not organized but, we just agree with communism.

So then why not get organized? Surely you'll have to be organized at the very least to coordinate your efforts as far as trying to convince other people of the idea?

[Peter The Painter]

So then why not get organized? Surely you'll have to be organized at the very least to coordinate your efforts as far as trying to convince other people of the idea?

Exactly, these people who expect revolution to fall out of the sky are so annoying.

I am against parties and authoritarian leadership, but organising groups to fight capitalism is the only way to go.

unless we expect revolution to just flash into life.

[Comrade Mango]

So then why not get organized? Surely you'll have to be organized at the very least to coordinate your efforts as far as trying to convince other people of the idea?

I think I might start a group. You're probably right about convincing people through organization.

[Ghost Hound]

How should I go about this? I've tried arguing valid points with them, but theyjust tell me that 'Castro has no idea what he's doing.....'

You should start asking them if they even realize whether or not Fidel Castro is not in power any-longer, and even has admitted to many of his errors. Many unfortunately still think that Fidel is the leader of Cuba... You'd be surprised how many people I know who have said he is.

[Peter The Painter]

well castro is a prick, who has not given the people of cuba control over the means of production, and has introduced capitalist reforms.

also the fact he is a leader and above everyone else, along with the party beauracracy, is pretty fucking dispicable.

fuck any revolution, where the beauracrats form a new upper class, and live in luxury, where as, the workers are not even allowed in hotels or on holiday beaches.

fuck fidel, up the workers of cuba.

[leninfan]

If I were a socialist leader my goal would be to live in luxury just as long as all of my people get to live the same way.
Utopia = A private island with great soil for barley, soy, hemp, and cotton.
This island is not CUBA, but it could be. Damn Crusty ol koots. :blushing:

[Ghost Hound]

well castro is a prick, who has not given the people of cuba control over the means of production, and has introduced capitalist reforms.

also the fact he is a leader and above everyone else, along with the party beauracracy, is pretty fucking dispicable.

fuck any revolution, where the beauracrats form a new upper class, and live in luxury, where as, the workers are not even allowed in hotels or on holiday beaches.

fuck fidel, up the workers of cuba.

I just stated that Fidel is not in power, so your statement at the end is inherently contradictory, unless you're saying it as in "Fuck the one who started the state-capitalism of Cuba."

At any rate, I've only really bothered studying the personal life of Stalin, but much like Stalin, I would assume that Fidel lived relatively modestly in actuality, but I wouldn't know for sure. It's not something I hear much of anyway.

[Peter The Painter]

It could not be a Utopia and also have a leader.

A stateless, classless, non monetary system, with power in the hands of the workers, who elect theirown representitives to council, which choose how to run and perfect the mode of production, by putting in place, the ideas and views of sociaety at large.

Councils would be autonomous and would be elected by the local workers, this council could be removed elected etc whenever the people demanded.

No person can hold political sway.

Prison in its current form would of course be abolished, replaced with communes for the unstable, which would be loosley guarded by the local workers militia (most crime would not occur due to the economic hardship that produces crimes being abolished)

Sexism, Transphobia, Patriachy, Racism and Homophobia done away with.

5 hour working days, universal top quality health care for all.

Free and equal education all the way to the highest education possible, communal ownership of property and possesions.

Poverty would die

[Peter The Painter]

He is not in power, though he is still commander in chief of the RAFC and all big decisions go through him,according to raul and the national assembly.

irrelevent anyway, any leader is bad, because they are afforded power over the people.

Anyway Castro is as senile as hell, he keeps rambling on about conspiracies and its got to the point where i feel kinda sorry for the guy, next thing you know, he will be on a show with alex jones talking about how the USA has planted brevel monkeys in the moon to hatch and fly to cuba and kill dear leader.

[leninfan]

Well I like what you wrote... I'm down... this current crap is so wrong.
I don't need to lead, I will just take up the role that Socrates did.

[Peter The Painter]

didn't he say thatworkers were subhuman :(

anywhoo

Why are you a fan of lenin

I think he totally disgraced the name of communism, aswell as being an SOB

[ContrarianLemming]

Most of the world is capitalist, and most of the world is poor.

[Ghost Hound]

I think he totally disgraced the name of communism, aswell as being an SOB

Why is that? Because he was a leader? I support the necessity of a vanguard. Leadership is not necessarily a negative thing, especially when the working class lends their support to their leaders [e.g. Lenin and the Bolsheviks]. Even the state, so long as it is a workers state carrying out the dictatorship of the proletariat, is not necessarily negative either, and is merely an apparatus used for building socialism and increasing class consciousness. It will inevitably wither. It is ultimately an ultra-leftist position to claim that "any leader is bad," and therefore I of course disagree that Lenin "disgraced" communism. He may have not been a "pure Marxist," but the nonsensical rantings for a "pure Marxist" is inherently dogmatic and impractical, as it does not consider material conditions [i.e. context] of society.

[Peter The Painter]

Because he betrayed the working class and set up an authoritarian beauracratic shithole, where the workers never controlled the means of production, because he killed Anarchists, because he believed the way to create a classless egalitarian society was to erect a beauracratic party state where the party became the new rulling class and the workers were living in fear of the gulag.

[CommunityBeliever]

Over half of the world suffers from preventable diseases, malnutrition, and other illnesses that could easily be solved by a better allocation of medicine, food, and other resources.

This is a problem which surely would not occur in a socialist society, as socialists have a good record of giving health care to everyone. For example, Cuba treats all of its own citizens and it even gives foreign doctors free medical degrees and sends them back home so that they can treat foreign citizens.

Stop focusing on Fidel and Raul Castro, it is the Cuban workers that are responsible for the good that has come out of revolution in that country, Fidel, Raul, Che, and the other revolutionaries from the granma (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Granma_%28yacht%29) can be credited with helping overthrowing capitalism, however, it is the workers that did all the good after that point

[Rafiq]

There's a group of communists at my school, and I'm trying to make more people agree.
How should I go about this? I've tried arguing valid points with them, but they just tell me that 'Castro has no idea what he's doing.....'
Any way I can counter this and make him see communism as a good/ decent thing? I'm not trying to force them or anything, I know he can be swayed, but if he chooses not to, I'll leave him be.



Be very simple for them... Give him an introduction.. and let him run off with that, and he will study it...