Financing national liberation...

[RadioRaheem84]

How did Lenin, Ho Chi Minh, Fidel Castro and the M-26-7 movement ever fund their liberation movements?

Another question, how can any communist or socialist leader of a movement even be remotely anti-capital at all these days? It seems like capital has penetrated all levels of society. Not even Cuba is free of foreign investment? Has it become almost a dependence for national survival? Is the key to control capital these days for many socialist leaders?

[Peter The Painter]

Ho Chi Minh turned some trotskyite revolutionaries into the french police, in return for cash, which he used to get things up and running

Castro got money sent from cuba, where he was a symbol after the barracks attack he carried out, this got them guns, the boat, and i am not sure if they paid the spanish civil war instructor, who trained them.


And the reason Cuba has foreign investment, is because it does not have workers control, and the beauracracy will soon whore the rest of Cubas resources off, and the cubans will not mind, because they never owned anything in cuba, fidel and the party are the head honchos.

that said, i still support national liberation, but am just dissapointed that cuba is not a workers democracy.

[Tavarisch_Mike]

On a documentary i saw on tele a couple of years ago, they claimed that Fidel had support of two gun-shop owners wo moste willing did contribute the movement with mausers and shotguns and amunition ofcourse.

[Peter The Painter]

He also managed to raise a shitload in Miami, this was before little Havana lol.

Yeah, he wrote in a book I read that

"the people of the north were supportive of our cause, they felt it was just, and of liberty and truth"

[Devrim]

The vast majority of national liberation movements today are financed by capitalist states intending to use them as a tool against their rivals.

Devrim

[fa2991]

How did Lenin, Ho Chi Minh, Fidel Castro and the M-26-7 movement ever fund their liberation movements?

Revolutionary lemonade stand in their parents' yard.

http://img840.imageshack.us/img840/7310/lemonaderevolutionsepia.png

(Back in those days, Lenin had pigtails and the body of a little girl. What, you didn't know that?)

[fionntan]

Timeline: Northern Bank robbery


The gang which carried out one of the biggest cash robberies ever appear to have planned every detail with great precision. They escaped with £26.5m after a robbery on the Northern Bank's Belfast headquarters. Here is a timetable of the raid:

Sunday 19 December 2200 GMT - Three masked men go to a house at Colinmill in Poleglass, on the western outskirts of Belfast. A mother, father, two sons and a girlfriend of one of the sons are in the house.
One of the sons is Chris Ward, a bank official with the Northern Bank in Donegall Square West.
He is taken away while at least two masked men hold the rest of the family hostage for more than 24 hours.
Mr Ward is taken in a red car from Poleglass to a house in Loughinisland Road, Downpatrick, County Down, where his supervisor lives.
When he arrives, two masked men have already taken over that house by pretending to be police officers.

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/40654000/jpg/_40654779_northern203.jpg The Northern Bank's head office was robbed by the gang

His supervisor Kevin McMullan and his wife Karen have been tied up at gunpoint.
Sunday 2330 GMT - Mrs McMullan is taken away from the house to an undisclosed location where she is held blindfold for more than 24 hours.
Monday 20 December 0630 GMT - The masked men leave the house in Loughinisland Road, leaving the bank officials with instructions about what they must do.
Monday 1200 GMT - Mr McMullan and Mr Ward go into work and carry out their normal duties.
They work in the cash centre in the basement of the bank, in Donegall Square/Wellington Street.
Monday 1800 GMT -One of the workers leaves the bank carrying a holdall containing about £1m.
He goes around the corner into Upper Queen Street where he hands the bag to another man.
Police believe this was a trial run for the later robbery.
Monday 1900 GMT - Money which has loaded into crates is collected up by a "distinctive" white box van.
Monday 2000 GMT - The van makes a second collection from the Wellington Street entrance to the bank.
In excess of £26m is stolen in total before the van drives off towards the Grosvenor Road roundabout.
Monday 2300 GMT - Mrs McMullan finds her way to a house after being left in Drumkeeragh Forest Park, County Down, between Ballynahinch and Castlewellan.
She is suffering from exposure as a result of her ordeal.
Her car is later found burnt out in the forest park.
Monday 2345 GMT - Police and senior officials at the bank are alerted to the raid.
Sam Kinkaid, head of the Police Service of Northern Ireland's Crime Operations branch, is briefed and immediately signals the start of the hunt for the gang involved.

[Devrim]

Timeline: Northern Bank robbery


The gang which carried out one of the biggest cash robberies ever appear to have planned every detail with great precision. They escaped with £26.5m after a robbery on the Northern Bank's Belfast headquarters. Here is a timetable of the raid:


This wasn't actually as successful as it sounds here as the bank issued new money soon afterwards:


Interviewed after the raid, several experts said that taking the Northern Bank notes was foolish, as, apart from some tourist destinations, they were essentially useless outside of Northern Ireland and Scotland, and that anyone attempting to pass them in Northern Ireland would quickly arouse suspicion. Following the raid, the Northern Bank announced that it would recall all £300 million worth of its banknotes in denominations of £10 or more, and reissue them in different colours with a new logo and new prefixes to the serial numbers. The first of these new notes entered circulation on 11 March 2005.

Devrim

[fionntan]

You can still use the money know it all... Stole or not a British PR you must be reading...

[RotStern]

I have been told that Castro was dishonest and disguised the revolution to make it look more attractive to venture capitalists. I cannot vouch for the accuracy though...

[A Revolutionary Tool]

I have been told that Castro was dishonest and disguised the revolution to make it look more attractive to venture capitalists. I cannot vouch for the accuracy though...
Who cares? If I was living in Gaza and could get a shit load of money from Nazis by saying I was going to kill Jewish soldiers, I would totally leave out the part where I wasn't a racist anti-Semitic if it got those dumbasses to invest.

[blake 3:17]

Theft. Seize weapons, control territories, provide egalitarian modes of production.

[Victory]

We should use capital to our benefit if it helps us spread revolution and achieve Socialism.

I know the Soviet Union paid spies from other countries vast amounts of Capital to help the Soviet Union and spy on their governments.


I have been told that Castro was dishonest and disguised the revolution to make it look more attractive to venture capitalists. I cannot vouch for the accuracy though...

He certainly disguised the revolution and attempted to decieve the US into thinking he was not a Communist.

Not that it worked at all ofcourse -

Watch - No doubt it was a strategy to delay interferance from USA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8mqAEslLB3M

[scarletghoul]

There are many ways to finance a revolution. Stalin robbed banks. The Naxalites tax people.

[Tavarisch_Mike]

Revolutionary lemonade stand in their parents' yard.

http://img840.imageshack.us/img840/7310/lemonaderevolutionsepia.png

(Back in those days, Lenin had pigtails and the body of a little girl. What, you didn't know that?)


This is clearly frome a good source and after seing such a strong evidence im convinced that this is how it was! :lol:

[fa2991]

This is clearly frome a good source and after seing such a strong evidence im convinced that this is how it was! :lol:

You can tell it's real because Fidel Castro is 80, Che is 25, Ho Chi Minh is 60, and Lenin is 30 all at the same time.

[AK]

Who cares? If I was living in Gaza and could get a shit load of money from Nazis by saying I was going to kill Jewish soldiers, I would totally leave out the part where I wasn't a racist anti-Semitic if it got those dumbasses to invest.
I don't know about you, but I'd rather use the money to buy guns and shoot the Nazis.

[RadioRaheem84]

Would an international financier or a state really turn the tables? Lets say George Soros became a commie one day and decided to fund the Nepalese Maoists. Would that really turn things around?

Or lets say the Chinese state did a 180 and set up a little committee to finance national liberation struggles. Would that tilt the world back to the days of the Cold War? Would it signal a turn against US hegemony by another powerful state?

Also, how many national liberation movements did the USSR, East Germany and China help out during the Cold War?

[Lolshevik]

Revolutionary lemonade stand in their parents' yard.

http://img840.imageshack.us/img840/7310/lemonaderevolutionsepia.png

(Back in those days, Lenin had pigtails and the body of a little girl. What, you didn't know that?)

Am I just too old fashioned, or is there anyone else on here who gets sort of offended when revolutionary leaders they uphold are parodied? (This is nothing against you btw. It's a personal quirk of mine, I think.)

Also, I'm quite sure that the national liberation movements in neocolonial countries are sometimes partially financed by their sister parties' dues-payers in the oppressor countries. That's how they did it in the CWI, anyway.

[blake 3:17]

Would an international financier or a state really turn the tables? Lets say George Soros became a commie one day and decided to fund the Nepalese Maoists. Would that really turn things around?

I'm not aware of any socialist revolution that didn't have very wealthy bourgeois or aristocratic supporters that provided financial aid. Usually these folks either inherited their wealth or petty bourgeois who happened to make a lot of money very quickly. Someone as wealthy and powerful as Soros would have a hard time not deforming social movements.

I know one very very rich (in the $50 million range) person who has been pretty benevolent at doling out cash for progressive causes. Some folks just take the money and do what they'd do otherwise but with a bigger budget. Others work hard at maintaining the financial assistance which basically gives the wealthy individual control over the organization.

And then you've got folks like Yasser Abbas doing very well for himself dealing cigarettes to the Palestinian people...

[fa2991]

Am I just too old fashioned, or is there anyone else on here who gets sort of offended when revolutionary leaders they uphold are parodied? (This is nothing against you btw. It's a personal quirk of mine, I think.)

It amuses me. :lol: I love the look on comrade Fidel's face.

[Nachie]

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs065.snc4/34633_1533620661829_1274164920_1450916_1465187_n.j pg

[Palingenisis]

I know maybe I shouldnt have thanked you there....but that literally made me LOL!

[fa2991]

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs065.snc4/34633_1533620661829_1274164920_1450916_1465187_n.j pg

Lolshevik's gonna shit.

[A Revolutionary Tool]

I don't know about you, but I'd rather use the money to buy guns and shoot the Nazis.
Well last time I checked there weren't many Nazis in Palestine. Although I do remember watching a news story about Jewish Neo-Nazis in Israel, I was like "WTF really" :confused:

[Lolshevik]

too mesmerized by Chavez's gorgeous physique to shit right now, I'll throw a fit later though I promise... :thumbup1:

[28350]

Well, if you can't convince people to support your cause, you can expropriate, sell drugs, and kidnap for ransom. I think all of these are acceptable, more or less.

[Nachie]

too mesmerized by Chavez's gorgeous physique to shit right now, I'll throw a fit later though I promise... :thumbup1:

banana hammock!

[Peter The Painter]

Farc Kidnap industrialists, and profesionals, like teacher, doctors government workers, tie them to trees and say its part of "the struggle"


Headlines next week

The FARC have kicked some orphan puppies, as part of their "Colombia Libre" campaign

:lol:

[M-26-7]

I'm not sure why the OP considers the Russian Revolution a "national liberation" (it wasn't, it was a social revolution that occured inside a major imperialist power), but Lenin and the Bolsheviks funded their newspaper primarily through a mixture of bank robberies and wealthy donors (Maxim Gorky). By comparison, party membership dues were small, which is why the Bolsheviks were always able to far, far outspend the Mensheviks after the split.

[RadioRaheem84]

Well I shouldn't have called it a national liberation but I was just wondering how revolutionaries funded their ventures.

[Peter The Painter]

1 word comrade

EXPROPRIATION!
:thumbup1:

[Kléber]

Also, how many national liberation movements did the USSR, East Germany and China help out during the Cold War?
A lot, but sometimes they also funded or carried out the repression of revolutionaries. The USSR wanted to build a network of trading partners to make itself comfortable and isolate US imperialism. Unlike workers' revolutions which just seize the cities and industry, guerrilla movements typically need foreign aid to mount offensives, because rural towns aren't a solid base for a mobile, mechanized army, and so the Soviets sent aid to Communists and regimes or rebels they liked in just about every country up until the end. That's why the oppressed countries are still full of Chinese, Soviet and Czech weapons. Things started to get messed up once China began funding pro-US regimes like Pakistan, Zaire etc. against the USSR's allies.

[RadioRaheem84]

Things started to get messed up once China began funding pro-US regimes like Pakistan, Zaire etc. against the USSR's allies.

Maoist China? :crying:

[fa2991]

Farc Kidnap industrialists, and profesionals, like teacher, doctors government workers, tie them to trees and say its part of "the struggle"


Headlines next week

The FARC have kicked some orphan puppies, as part of their "Colombia Libre" campaign

:lol:

How did you get away with that? :confused: I once said they sold drugs and lost 32 rep points in the next 20 minutes.

[Peter The Painter]

They dont sell drugs, but they tax coca farmers, who produce coca, because they get two or three harvests a year, where as cofee only yields one, and is far less valuable.