Uganda's Anti-Homosexuality Bill

[Autumn Red]

I watched a documentary about this on Vanguard News this morning. The political climate in Uganda right now is so violently anti-Homosexual that they actually considered making it punishable by death to be a Homosexual. You basically have extremist Christian preachers actually stirring up a murderous rage by actually showing gay porn in front of their congregations (lol).

Most of the larger Christian denominations are completely and utterly against this, which would basically mean the genocide of around 500,000 Ugandan Homosexuals. The Anglican community, one of the largest denominations in Uganda, has had several prominent members show outright support for the bill.

At the moment, regrettably, homosexuality is punishable from 5 years to life in prison. Several state newspapers have actually released lists of known homosexuals, leading to mass death threats and robberies.

In my opinion, this is akin to the witch hunts in early American history. Political enemies will be declared homosexuals, which will cause mass chaos and send an already unstable country into even more chaos.

[leftace53]

Homosexual acts remain punishable by death in Iran (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran), Mauritania (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mauritania), Saudi Arabia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saudi_Arabia), Sudan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sudan), United Arab Emirates (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Arab_Emirates), Yemen (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yemen), some parts of Nigeria (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nigeria) and Somalia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Somalia). Prison for life in; Barbados (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbados) (Not enforced for in private – Under review) Bangladesh (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bangladesh), Guyana (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guyana), Maldives (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maldives), Myanmar (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myanmar)/Burma (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burma), Pakistan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pakistan), Qatar (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qatar), Sierra Leone (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sierra_Leone), Tanzania (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tanzania) and Uganda (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uganda).
There are many countries that still punish homosexuality by death,as well as quite a few with prison. While there have been a fair amount of countries that have decriminalized it, there is still vast amount of discrimination.
From the countries listed above, it can easily be extrapolated that theocratic rule plays a part in this, but of course that is not the only factor for anti-homosexuality. It is obviously coupled with lots of misinformation about the LBGT community, and traditional gender role biases.

I don't know too much about the Ugandan situation in particular, but it is absolutely disgusting to prosecute someone for their sexuality.

[Autumn Red]

From my own personal experience in Africa, I can say that the society itself is culturally anti-homosexual, and not just politically or religiously motivated. One of the reasons why A.I.D.S. is so prevalent is because, and I heard this from several people in Cameroon, people who use condoms are considered gay. So condoms are incredibly hard to come by unless one goes to an NGO center. Homosexuals are afraid to go to the few stores that sell them because they will automatically be assumed to be homosexual, which could lead to blatant public humiliation. I guess I feel differently about this because Uganda is claimed to be a Christian country, whereas most mainstream Christian groups aren't this violent.

It's just a terrible situation.

[Queercommie Girl]

I wonder what the situation for transgendered people is like in countries like Uganda.

Generally speaking, homophobia and transphobia tend to go together, but not always. For example, in Iran transgendered people have their SRS paid for by the state, but homosexuality is still punishable by death. In the West, among the left at least, being homophobic has almost become politically taboo, but there are still a minority but visible section of the left that is more or less transphobic, as one can see, rather disgustingly, here on RevLeft.

There is also the existence of LGB transphobia in the West, which don't exist in countries like China, where the situation for gays and trans people are generally similar. Of course, relatively speaking transphobia is still much more uncommon among LGB people than among the hetero population, possibly because LGB people consider trans people to be political allies to a significant extent.

[Adi Shankara]

I wonder what the situation for transgendered people is like in countries like Uganda.

Generally speaking, homophobia and transphobia tend to go together, but not always. For example, in Iran transgendered people have their SRS paid for by the state, but homosexuality is still punishable by death. In the West, among the left at least, being homophobic has almost become politically taboo, but there are still a minority but visible section of the left that is more or less transphobic, as one can see, rather disgustingly, here on RevLeft.

There is also the existence of LGB transphobia in the West, which don't exist in countries like China, where the situation for gays and trans people are generally similar. Of course, relatively speaking transphobia is still much more uncommon among LGB people than among the hetero population, possibly because LGB people consider trans people to be political allies to a significant extent.

There are probably too few transgender people in Uganda to make a difference, seeing as most of them are impoverished and wouldn't be able to afford the surgery.

[Widerstand]

I watched a documentary about this on Vanguard News this morning.

I saw that one weeks ago on youtube, but they made the video private now. Anyway, it's up on current.com (http://current.com/shows/vanguard/92438541_missionaries-of-hate-pt-1.htm). I find it quite shocking to be honest.

The message is somewhat like "homosexuality is vs. nature/god; homosexuals want to eat poo (?); homosexuals molest children; obama wants to bring homosexuality to uganda so fuck him". Apparently it was all stirred up by some Ugandan preacher, who was supposedly inspired by an American homophobic preacher (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scott_Lively).

[leftace53]

I saw that one weeks ago on youtube, but they made the video private now. Anyway, it's up on current.com (http://current.com/shows/vanguard/92438541_missionaries-of-hate-pt-1.htm). I find it quite shocking to be honest.

.

Thanks for the link mate, was searching for something to watch, I guess I found it. Time to read up more on the Ugandan situation, and actually make an informed post in the future.

[28350]

http://www.revleft.com/vb/ugandan-homophobia-t136214/index.html?t=136214

[leftace53]

Just finished the documentary, and wow. Just wow. I wonder if the bill actually has as much support as is shown by the documentary, but regardless, a bill like that, even if it has only supporter that is one too many.
The religious leaders that are preaching for this bill seem like fucking rockstars. I mean, I act like the people in the audience at a really good concert. Their actual arguments are stupid (if you can even call them actual arguments), and basically resort to sensationalist brainwashing.

Not to make light of a serious situation, but Long Johns was totally hot.

[Queercommie Girl]

There are probably too few transgender people in Uganda to make a difference, seeing as most of them are impoverished and wouldn't be able to afford the surgery.

Not all trans people want to have surgery. Lack of surgery opportunities does not decrease the frequency of transgendered people within a given population. In ancient times no-one had surgery as an option but trans people still existed. One does not necessarily require surgery to significantly bend gender roles, in fact many gay people do it anyway, with a higher frequency than among the straight population.

Iran is also very impoverished, but its trans human rights record is among the best in the world.

There isn't a necessary correlation between economic prosperity and rate of transgendered people.

It really sucks that some people think trans rights issues aren't as important as gay rights issues in some way.

[Adi Shankara]

Iran is also very impoverished, but its trans human rights record is among the best in the world.

do you not care about the treatment of homosexuals, women, and religious minorities in Iran? Do you not know that many homosexuals in Iran are forced into getting transexual procedures done, against their will?

do you only care about transexuals/transgenders alone?

[Queercommie Girl]

do you not care about the treatment of homosexuals, women, and religious minorities in Iran? Do you not know that many homosexuals in Iran are forced into getting transexual procedures done, against their will?

do you only care about transexuals/transgenders alone?

Of course not, I don't know how you can be stupid enough to say that, but frankly these things are independent from each other. They don't change the fact that Iran is objectively relatively progressive for trans people, even if much of it isn't really intentional.

Doesn't mean I support a theocratic regime like Iran in any general sense though. However, I don't really like how so many Westerners love to demonise Iran, as if it's the worst country in the world. Westerners should examine their own countries first. Not to mention the demonisation of Iran is linked with the general Islamophobia that is prevalent in the West anyway.

Iran is not the topic of this thread anyway. I only mentioned it to show that it is absolutely ridiculous to suggest that transgenderism is only a phenomenon that is found in the richer countries.

[Queercommie Girl]

The issue here is not that anyone only cares about trans issues, but that trans people are not being considered enough. Even today among many sections of the left and within the LGBT community itself, talking about trans issues is still some kind of taboo. You see the transphobia that exists here on RevLeft, and frankly few people actually challenge it. You don't find the same kind of parallel with racism, sexism or homophobia.

Did you know that the main pro-establishment centre-left LGBT human rights organisation in England, Stonewall, officially only has "LGB" on its banner? I'm certainly not calling for a revenge of trans people against all the other groups that have neglected trans issues, but among the trans community there is often a sense of frustration at this kind of situation.

[Sperm-Doll Setsuna]

The issue here is not that anyone only cares about trans issues, but that trans people are not being considered enough. Even today among many sections of the left and within the LGBT community itself, talking about trans issues is still some kind of taboo. You see the transphobia that exists here on RevLeft, and frankly few people actually challenge it. You don't find the same kind of parallel with racism, sexism or homophobia.

Did you know that the main pro-establishment centre-left LGBT human rights organisation in England, Stonewall, officially only has "LGB" on its banner? I'm certainly not calling for a revenge of trans people against all the other groups that have neglected trans issues, but among the trans community there is often a sense of frustration at this kind of situation.

As far as this Ugandan bill is considered, I fancy "homosexuality" is used as a sweeping term also including transgenderism.

Anyway this anti-homosexuality movement has strong backing and support from various batshit U.S. churches and organisations (probably why those insane religious wackos are so reminiscent of modern day american wacko-preachers).

[Queercommie Girl]

As far as this Ugandan bill is considered, I fancy "homosexuality" is used as a sweeping term also including transgenderism.

Anyway this anti-homosexuality movement has strong backing and support from various batshit U.S. churches and organisations (probably why those insane religious wackos are so reminiscent of modern day american wacko-preachers).

I'm just raising an objective question here. Obviously there is no way I'm going to not seriously oppose this kind of anti-homosexuality bill.

[Queercommie Girl]

On Iran:

There is no way someone who is sympathetic to technocracy and transhumanism like me is ever going to support any kind of theocracy, no way.

However, I will state this analogy:

Suppose a bad man killed some innocent people, but also acted courageously and saved a child's life. Does the evil of his murdering innocent people negate the virtue of his saving a child's life? No it doesn't. It doesn't mean that overall he is not a bad person, because he is, but objectively credits must be given where they are due and events should be considered fairly and independently.

Therefore Iran's treatment of homosexuals, women, people of other faiths, atheists etc is completely reactionary. But this does not in principle negate the fact that objectively Iran has a relatively progressive policy with respect to transgenderism, even if such a policy isn't really intentional in any progressive sense.

[Dimentio]

On Iran:

There is no way someone who is sympathetic to technocracy and transhumanism like me is ever going to support any kind of theocracy, no way.

However, I will state this analogy:

Suppose a bad man killed some innocent people, but also acted courageously and saved a child's life. Does the evil of his murdering innocent people negate the virtue of his saving a child's life? No it doesn't. It doesn't mean that overall he is not a bad person, because he is, but objectively credits must be given where they are due and events should be considered fairly and independently.

Therefore Iran's treatment of homosexuals, women, people of other faiths, atheists etc is completely reactionary. But this does not in principle negate the fact that objectively Iran has a relatively progressive policy with respect to transgenderism, even if such a policy isn't really intentional in any progressive sense.

But that is like saying that the nazi sects in Europe have a "progressive" foreign policy since they are Pro-Palestinian. Progressiveness is a matter of context.

[Queercommie Girl]

But that is like saying that the nazi sects in Europe have a "progressive" foreign policy since they are Pro-Palestinian. Progressiveness is a matter of context.

I don't think Islamic Iran is comparable to Nazis. That is the kind of "demonisation" of Iran which I'm against.

[maskerade]

for those of you who haven't seen it:
euXQbZDwV0w

am I the only one who has an inclination to believe that the US Christian right has clinged onto this?

[Queercommie Girl]

^

Apparently the video is "blocked in my country on copyright grounds". :rolleyes:

[Autumn Red]

What really bothers me is that he talks about fisting and analingus, and THEN asks for the kids to leave the room.

???

[Queercommie Girl]

I wonder what the Christian fundie's view of trans people is. Do they view trans people as demonic vermin that should be utterly exterminated from the face of the earth?

Though I have a trans friend who is from a Christian background. Her sister is a fundie. I think her parents have accepted her. Her sister has not, but she isn't hateful either, she just "prays for God to save the soul of her brother". :rolleyes: