Mass murders of blacks by white vigilantes after Hurricane Katrina

[#FF0000]

The Story (http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/27/us/27racial.html)


Rumor to Fact in Tales of Post-Katrina Violence
By TRYMAINE LEE
NEW ORLEANS — In the days after Hurricane Katrina left much of New Orleans in flooded ruins, the city was awash in tales of violence and bloodshed.

The narrative of those early, chaotic days — built largely on rumors and half-baked anecdotes — quickly hardened into a kind of ugly consensus: poor blacks and looters were murdering innocents and terrorizing whoever crossed their path in the dark, unprotected city.

“As you look back on it, at the time it was being reported, it looked like the city was under siege,” said Russel L. Honoré, the retired Army lieutenant general who led military relief efforts after the storm.

Today, a clearer picture is emerging, and it is an equally ugly one, including white vigilante violence, police killings, official cover-ups and a suffering population far more brutalized than many were willing to believe. Several police officers and a white civilian accused of racially motivated violence have recently been indicted in various cases, and more incidents are coming to light as the Justice Department has started several investigations into civil rights violations after the storm.

“The environment that was produced by the storm brought out what was dormant in people here — the anger and the contempt they felt against African-Americans in the community,” said John Penny, a criminologist at Southern University of New Orleans. “We might not ever know how many people were shot, killed, or whose bodies will never be found.”

Broken levees left 80 percent of New Orleans submerged, but in unflooded Algiers Point, for instance, a mostly white enclave in a predominantly black neighborhood on the west bank of the Mississippi River, armed white militias cordoned off many of the streets.

They posted signs that boasted, “We shoot looters.” And the sound of gunfire peppered the hot days and nights like thunderclaps of a second storm.

Reginald Bell, a black resident, said in a recent interview that he was threatened at gunpoint by two white men there a few days after the storm. The men, on a balcony a few blocks from his home, yelled at him, “We don’t want your kind around here!”

Then one of the men racked his pump-action shotgun, aimed it at Mr. Bell and dared him to be seen again on the streets of Algiers Point, Mr. Bell said. The next day, he said, the men confronted him on his porch while he sat with his girlfriend. They shoved guns — a shotgun and a long-nose .357 Magnum — in the couple’s faces and reiterated their demand.

“There was no electricity, no police, no nothing,” said Mr. Bell, 41, sitting on his porch on a recent afternoon. “We were like sitting ducks. I slept with a butcher knife and a hatchet under my pillow.”

The West Bank area of the city was spared any flooding, but in the days and weeks after the storm, it was littered with fallen trees and, according to witnesses, with the bodies of several black men — none of whom appeared to have drowned.

“I done seen bodies lay in the streets for weeks,” said Malik Rahim, who lives around the corner from Mr. Bell and came to his aid. “I’m not talking about the flooded Ninth Ward, I’m talking about dry Algiers. I watched them become bloated and torn apart by dogs. And they all had bullet wounds.

“We’ve been screaming it from the top of our lungs since those first days, but nobody wanted to listen.”

Mr. Bell said that he went to the police not long after the confrontation with the two gun-wielding white men but no report or action was taken. It was not until last year when he was interviewed by a federal grand jury looking into civil rights violations in post-Katrina New Orleans that people seemed to pay attention, he said.

Some of the most serious accusations surfaced after investigations by The Times-Picayune and the nonprofit news organization ProPublica, which spotlighted much of the police violence and racially motivated violence around Algiers Point.

One case is that of a former Algiers resident, Roland J. Bourgeois Jr., who is white and was accused of being part of one of the vigilante groups. He was recently indicted by the federal government on civil rights charges in the shooting of three black men who were trying to leave the city. According to the indictment, Mr. Bourgeois, who now lives in Mississippi, warned one neighbor that “anything coming up this street darker than a brown paper bag is getting shot.”

The highest-profile case involving the police is the Danziger Bridge shooting in eastern New Orleans, where six days after Katrina, a group of police officers wielding assault rifles and automatic weapons fired on a group of unarmed civilians, wounding a family of four and killing two, including a teenager and a mentally disabled man. The man, Ronald Madison, 40, was shot in the back with a shotgun and then stomped and kicked as he lay dying, according to court papers.

Mayor Mitch Landrieu in May invited the Justice Department to conduct a full review of the city’s Police Department. The Justice Department has also begun several civil and criminal investigations into post-Katrina violence involving the police and civilians.

Thomas Perez, an assistant attorney general, said the federal government was investigating eight criminal cases involving accusations of police misconduct. Many people in the city — including activists, victims and witnesses — had long contended that racial violence was being ignored by local law enforcement.

“We were dismissed as kooks for the last four years,” said Jacques Morial, a co-director of the Louisiana Justice Institute, a nonprofit advocacy organization, and the son of New Orleans’ first black mayor. “I think what we are seeing now recalibrates the reality of Katrina, and I think it vindicates lots of folks.”

The city’s police superintendent, Ronal Serpas, who took over the department in May, said he was troubled by what has come to light since the storm.

“We have to confront this and look at it head on,” Mr. Serpas said. “There have been far too many examples of men who have worn this badge and admitted in court to behavior that is an absolute insult to this city and to the men and women of this department who wear this badge with dignity and pride.”

On a recent afternoon, Mr. Rahim, 62, walked through the streets of Algiers and pointed out where, block by block, the militias had set up barricades and stood guard. He walked along the levee where the charred remains of Henry Glover were found in the trunk of a burned-out car, precipitating the indictment of three current and two former police officers.

“How can you remove the scars from the eyes of all the children who witnessed these atrocities?” Mr. Rahim asked.

General Honoré said that he had been asking himself questions, too.

“I think, every year there is more time for people to reflect on it,” he said. “I came out of Katrina with one perspective on it. And there isn’t a month that goes by that I don’t talk to someone who survived it who gives me a different perspective than I had before.”

This article has been revised to reflect the following correction:

Correction: August 28, 2010


An article on Friday about violence in New Orleans in the days after Hurricane Katrina misspelled, in some editions, the given name a man who was recently indicted by the federal government on civil rights charges in the shooting of three black men who were trying to leave the city. He is Roland J. Bourgeois Jr., not Ronald.

I'm not really shocked by this kind of thing anymore. It doesn't shock me at all that America has racist militiamen gunning people down, that it takes years for this kind of thing to come to light, or that property crimes committed by blacks are hyped up in the news by incredulous white news anchors who are just outraged at the sight of a black person wading through floodwaters out of a store, while white cops and militias can shoot people in the street and get away scot free.

I'm also not surprised at all that this story will not get anymore airtime.

So read up and spread the word that we got death squads in the United States.

[the last donut of the night]

One case is that of a former Algiers resident, Roland J.Bourgeois.Jr, who is white and was accused of being part of one of the vigilante groups.


That'd be funny if he weren't such a despicable piece of shit.

[gorillafuck]

These fuckers need to get chased out of New Orleans.

[Autumn Red]

This begs the question: why weren't there any Anarchist/Socialist groups in the city to provide protection for the non-whites?

[Adi Shankara]

This begs the question: why weren't there any Anarchist/Socialist groups in the city to provide protection for the non-whites?

because anarchist socialist groups are the same world-round; they mostly are just talk, and hot air.

To be honest, this saddens me that some parts of the country are still like this; and they say the south isn't racist anymore. I'll stay on the West Coast, thank you very much.

[#FF0000]

This begs the question: why weren't there any Anarchist/Socialist groups in the city to provide protection for the non-whites?

There definitely were, to provide aid. I'm also certain that cops would shoot up anyone who went out with a gun who wasn't a white baby boomer.

[Jimmie Higgins]

This begs the question: why weren't there any Anarchist/Socialist groups in the city to provide protection for the non-whites?Because there are not that many socialists or anarchists in that area. After the initial period, there were many radicals (and many liberal volunteers) who went there and tried to organize various bottom-up relief type work and I think that's a great idea for people who may have been in other parts of the south and could take the time to move and do that. But it would be difficult for radicals to have gone to NO during the actual flooding and so on because they would have been kept out - Fuck, even Sean Penn had to just get a boat and go around the governmnet agencies and police.

Two California Bay Area ISO comrades happened to be there when shit hit the fan and were caught up in a lot of this. But they could not do much at the time because they were in survival mode and trekking across the city to try and get out. But, as radicals, they went out and talked about what they saw and mistreatment of refugees by the governmnet and tried to make the kinds of misconduct they saw as well as the heroism of ordinary people (many poor and black and called "looters" by the media) helping others to survive in the face of no help from the official "relif" effort by the government.

Their account is long, but well worth the read


(http://socialistworker.org/2005-2/556/556_04_RealHeroes.shtml) Trapped in New Orleans by the flood--and martial law
(http://socialistworker.org/2005-2/556/556_04_RealHeroes.shtml)


Police made their storm misery worse (http://articles.sfgate.com/2005-09-09/bay-area/17390594_1_buses-hotel-monteleone-paramedics)



Also worth noting in the context of the NYTimes article about poor people's stories of what they saw being ignored or ridiculed, check out some of the comments to the account:

http://sfsocialists.livejournal.com/3687.html


What a load of crap. Once again, your leftist need to make EVERYTHING into a political or racial issue rears its ugly head. Tired and boring.
I struggle to believe this account because it would force me to believe that all military and law enforcement are racist and bad people. I know this is not true.
I've talked to some people who are skeptical of the claims you make in this post -- for example, that police officers confiscated your food, and about the treatment you received in San Antonio. Do you have any corroborating evidence for your story? Did anyone in your group manage to get video or audio recordings of any events you describe? Or do you know of any other groups not affiliated with you or your cause who have made similar reports? Having independent verification of these or similar events would strengthen your claims.Yeah, socialists are liars, but cops and the military have never covered up anything.
Earlier tonight I received an email that forwarded the referenced article. I then did my own web search which came up with some info as to the authors. Here is my reply to the person who sent me the original article.

"Thanks for the article. It comes from the international socialists organization website, http://www.sfsocialists.org/ . A quick google also came up with the following:

" 'Socialist Worker Online, November 5, 2004, SERVICE EMPLOYEES International Union Local 250 in Northern California has recently been shaken by workers’ efforts to form independent unions. LARRY BRADSHAW, chief steward of the Paramedic Chapter of SEIU Local 790 in the Bay Area, and LORRIE BETH SLONSKY, a member of the same chapter and editor of the Gurney Gazette, look at the roots of the controversy. http://www.socialistworker.org/2004-2/519/519_11_SEIU250.shtml.'

" 'San Francisco Fire Commission, November 20, 2001, From Simon Pang, Daniel J. Langholtz, Linda Ray, Bettrietta Dahlstrom and Marlene Davis, requesting that all charges of insubordination and inappropriate behavior are dropped against Paramedic Lorrie Beth Slonsky. Copy: each Commissioner and Chief of Department. http://www.sfgov.org/site/uploadedfiles/firecomm/sup_html/agendas01/anov2001.htm'

"If the original article is true, i.e., not a piece of bogus propaganda, the police department of Gretna, a city south of NO on the other side of the Mississippi River, should be brought up on charges."Oh, I found out the authors of this article in a socialist paper is written by socialists, obviously they are making it up - of course there are many similar accounts coming out, but these accounts are form ahem, black people, so I'm still waiting for a reliable source before I make an judgments.
if you socialists insist on having someone to blame, blame the damn Sierra club for this disaster
I'm a Gretna resident. You should not have been in New Orleans at all. Didn't the Mayor evacuate the city? I know what kind of people were destroying the city. Thank you Chief Lawson for protecting my home. Go back where you came from and critize your own people.
IMHO it is not the "facts" that are in question so much as the perspective in which they are told in this writing. Clearly their is an agenda at work in this piece. Every paragraph reads like a socialist anti-government proganda brochure. Well these stories and countless other are now being vindicated in small part, but the damage is done.

It's the same old story in US society - if a cop says that an unarmed person somehow was a threat to a 200 pound armed and trained cop, that's all the evidence required. If you have videos of misconduct and dozens of witnesses but the people are poor or black or "political" then their experience and their observations are suspect.

That's racism at work in our society: blame your fellow brothers and sisters and look at them with suspicion while at the same time, don't question the word and assumptions of power. Racism is poison.

[bcbm]

To be honest, this saddens me that some parts of the country are still like this; and they say the south isn't racist anymore. I'll stay on the West Coast, thank you very much.

yeah no racism there:rolleyes:

[Aesop]

Thanks for the story, but it has been a bit of an anti-climax

[Queercommie Girl]

yeah no racism there:rolleyes:

Sankara doesn't seem to understand that Marxism is the ideology of struggle. We are supposed to face oppression and discrimination head-on, not just escape and hide our heads in some kind of delusionally dreamt up discrimination-free paradise.:rolleyes:

[Volcanicity]

Thanks for the story, but it has been a bit of an anti-climax
Yeah im sure the families of those murdered are thinking the same thing.

[Nolan]

When teabaggers say it:


The government is socialism, and socialism is evil! We have to stop big government from intruding into our daily lives!When socialists say it:


DON'T INSULT OUR FINE MEN AND WOMEN IN UNIFORM YOU ANTI-AMERICAN FILTH


These are the same people that elected Bush twice, so it's not like you can expect them to be intelligent. Or even consistent.

[gorillafuck]

Thanks for the story, but it has been a bit of an anti-climax
Reports on actual events aren't action movies.

[scarletghoul]

I posted this a while ago and no one cared :(

[Os Cangaceiros]

I posted this a while ago and no one cared :(

:crying:


not compared to the south or northern midwest. if shit goes down in Northern California, it'll be talked about for ages.

Are you under the impression that Klansmen ride around in pickup trucks through Southern towns? Because there's not much overt racism in the South anymore. Old-school vulgar racism has been replaced by unspoken bigotry and hostility to ethnic and cultural differences, and I'd argue that the phenomenon is just as bad on the West Coast as it is in the supposedly bigot-filled South and Midwest.

[#FF0000]

Keep this on topic, kids.

Found this video from Democracy Now! as well. Has home video of some of the racist filth bragging about shooting people.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4K3veQLmhAE

[Salyut]

Heres the article the OP's linked one followed up on. (http://www.thenation.com/article/katrinas-hidden-race-war)


Fellow militia member Wayne Janak, 60, a carpenter and contractor, is more forthcoming with me. "Three people got shot in just one day!" he tells me, laughing. We're sitting in his home, a boxy beige-and-pink structure on a corner about five blocks from Daigle's Grocery. "Three of them got hit right here in this intersection with a riot gun," he says, motioning toward the streets outside his home. Janak tells me he assumed the shooting victims, who were African-American, were looters because they were carrying sneakers and baseball caps with them. He guessed that the property had been stolen from a nearby shopping mall. According to Janak, a neighbor "unloaded a riot gun"--a shotgun--"on them. We chased them down."

Janak, who was carrying a pistol, says he grabbed one of the suspected looters and considered killing him, but decided to be merciful. "I rolled him over in the grass and saw that he'd been hit in the back with the riot gun," he tells me. "I thought that was good enough. I said, 'Go back to your neighborhood so people will know Algiers Point is not a place you go for a vacation. We're not doing tours right now.'"

He's equally blunt in Welcome to New Orleans, an hourlong documentary produced by the Danish video team, who captured Janak, beer in hand, gloating about hunting humans. Surrounded by a crowd of sunburned white Algiers Point locals at a barbeque held not long after the hurricane, he smiles and tells the camera, "It was great! It was like pheasant season in South Dakota. If it moved, you shot it." A native of Chicago, Janak also boasts of becoming a true Southerner, saying, "I am no longer a Yankee. I earned my wings." A white woman standing next to him adds, "He understands the N-word now." In this neighborhood, she continues, "we take care of our own."

Janak, who says he'd been armed with two .38s and a shotgun, brags about keeping the bloody shirt worn by a shooting victim as a trophy. When "looters" showed up in the neighborhood, "they left full of buckshot," he brags, adding, "You know what? Algiers Point is not a pussy community."

Within that community the gunmen enjoyed wide support. In an outtake from the documentary, a group of white Algiers Point residents gathers to celebrate the arrival of military troops sent to police the area. Addressing the crowd, one local praises the vigilantes for holding the neighborhood together until the Army Humvees trundled into town, noting that some of the militia figures are present at the party. "You all know who you are," the man says. "And I'm proud of every one of you all." Cheering and applause erupts from the assembled locals.

Some of the gunmen prowling Algiers Point were out to wage a race war, says one woman whose uncle and two cousins joined the cause. A former New Orleanian, this source spoke to me anonymously because she fears her relatives could be prosecuted for their crimes. "My uncle was very excited that it was a free-for-all--white against black--that he could participate in," says the woman. "For him, the opportunity to hunt black people was a joy."

[Burn A Flag]

That's fucked up.

[Aesop]

Yeah im sure the families of those murdered are thinking the same thing.

Sorry maybe anti-climax was not the right word. I was trying to say that these actions do not shock me, especially in the climate of america.
As a bit of a history buff using the language of mass murder does signify close to a genocide.
Gosh i didn't think i deserve a response like that.

[Aesop]

Reports on actual events aren't action movies.

? shite.
I was not insinuating that. Personally the words 'mass murder' and genocide seem to be or interchange(maybe not correctly). I apologise for any offense i caused.
However, i do think that response was unfair considering i was responding to my reaction of the title. In the context of the USA it does not radically surprise me such a hideous has taken place.

[Queercommie Girl]

Sorry maybe anti-climax was not the right word. I was trying to say that these actions do not shock me, especially in the climate of america.
As a bit of a history buff using the language of mass murder does signify close to a genocide.
Gosh i didn't think i deserve a response like that.

This forum tends to be quite harsh on its members, I have to agree...

[Reznov]

Sorry, but I would shoot any looter that tried to take anything or harm my family.

So I see where the "White vigiliantes" are coming from. I think they were just trying to protect themselves but I know, that just seems crazy and the only reason is because they have to be horrible racist neo-nazis!

But in a situation like this, no one cares for politics or being called a racist.

[anticap]

Sorry, but I would shoot any looter that tried to take anything or harm my family.

IOW: You're an aristocratic propertarian, and a danger -- not a comrade -- to those in dire need of aid.

[Lacrimi de Chiciură]

Sorry, but I would shoot any looter that tried to take anything or harm my family.

So I see where the "White vigiliantes" are coming from. I think they were just trying to protect themselves but I know, that just seems crazy and the only reason is because they have to be horrible racist neo-nazis!

But in a situation like this, no one cares for politics or being called a racist.

The vigilantes are open racists who have been filmed saying they shot everything that moved and "taught them what the N-word means." At least try to make an effort to comprehend the text before you make ignorant comments about it!

What do you mean no one cares for politics in a situation like this? This situation is saturated in politics.

[Jimmie Higgins]

Sorry, but I would shoot any looter that tried to take anything or harm my family.

So I see where the "White vigiliantes" are coming from. I think they were just trying to protect themselves but I know, that just seems crazy and the only reason is because they have to be horrible racist neo-nazis!

But in a situation like this, no one cares for politics or being called a racist.

This famous comparison that some random person put out on the internet while the flooding was still going on shows the faultiness of your logic:

http://tradermike.net/movethecrowd/images/white_find_black_loot.jpg

All the stories that have been posted on this thread show without a doubt that racism was one of the prime motivations for attacks described. Fine, arm yourself, that's understandable - putting up a barricade in your dry neighborhood because you are near a flooded ghetto and then shooting any black refugee who approached - that's racism.

No one was breaking into these houses when they got shot, they were merely walking through a white neighborhood.

Besides, as the account I posted on the other page shows, there were easy ways to survive while also helping other refugees.

And this isn't even the larger systemic racism that Katrina exposed, but the Dutch video and other witnesses demonstrate that the shooting of people and suspicion of refugees was racially based.

[#FF0000]

Sorry, but I would shoot any looter that tried to take anything or harm my family.

What does this have to do with anything in this thread?




So I see where the "White vigiliantes" are coming from. I think they were just trying to protect themselves but I know, that just seems crazy and the only reason is because they have to be horrible racist neo-nazis!

But in the video I posted and the article itself, one of those vigilantes is pretty open about targeting black people. Did you read the article or watch the video?

[Reznov]

Yes, I read the article and watched the video and understood what was being said.

I am just saying what I would do in a situation like Hurricane Katrina and most other people would likely would to.

[Reznov]

All the stories that have been posted on this thread show without a doubt that racism was one of the prime motivations for attacks described. Fine, arm yourself, that's understandable - putting up a barricade in your dry neighborhood because you are near a flooded ghetto and then shooting any black refugee who approached - that's racism.

No one was breaking into these houses when they got shot, they were merely walking through a white neighborhood.

Besides, as the account I posted on the other page shows, there were easy ways to survive while also helping other refugees.

And this isn't even the larger systemic racism that Katrina exposed, but the Dutch video and other witnesses demonstrate that the shooting of people and suspicion of refugees was racially based.

Thanks, I never once said that i supported anytihng described in the OP or the video, to shoot blacks or in a situation like this it would be justify it, so everyone needs to cool down a bit and stop with the whole trying to label me as some kind of racist bullshit.

How do you know the Whites were jsut outright shooting them because they were black I know in the video thats what we saw, but what about before and after the video? Do we know the Whites involved point of view? How do you know their werent blacks beating on Whites which the white people saw and caused them to form this opinion in the video/link? (I know, that is almost possible to think of Jimmie, but it happens!)

Sorry, but unlike you who labels everything as racist and White nationalist, I prefer to actually get some evidence as to why the white people in the video and link are like this and if they really are as "racist" as they seem.

And saying "Oh, well their White and racist!!!" just doesn't cut it. I believe there is more to the story.

[#FF0000]

Thanks, I never once said that i supported anytihng described in the OP or the video, to shoot blacks or in a situation like this it would be justify it, so everyone needs to cool down a bit and stop with the whole trying to label me as some kind of racist bullshit.

No, you're just apologizing for it.


How do you know the Whites were jsut outright shooting them because they were black I know in the video thats what we saw, but what about before and after the video? Do we know the Whites involved point of view? How do you know their werent blacks beating on Whites which the white people saw and caused them to form this opinion in the video/link? (I know, that is almost possible to think of Jimmie, but it happens!)

We don't. And we don't need to, because that doesn't suddenly make it okay to kill black people and still makes that person a racist, no matter what influenced their view of black people.


Sorry, but unlike you who labels everything as racist and White nationalist, I prefer to actually get some evidence as to why the white people in the video and link are like this and if they really are as "racist" as they seem.

Uh, you mean the evidence like eyewitness accounts and data from the coroner's office? You know, the evidence this article is based on and cites?

Jesus christ you're dense.

[The Red Next Door]

Yes, I read the article and watched the video and understood what was being said.

I am just saying what I would do in a situation like Hurricane Katrina and most other people would likely would to.

Why your stupid ass even on this forum?

[The Red Next Door]

Sorry, but I would shoot any looter that tried to take anything or harm my family.

So I see where the "White vigiliantes" are coming from. I think they were just trying to protect themselves but I know, that just seems crazy and the only reason is because they have to be horrible racist neo-nazis!

But in a situation like this, no one cares for politics or being called a racist.

I sorry to dispoint you but situation like this is when all sort of politics come out in the open and this situation just open up, the racial situation in New Orleans, They were people just looking for away to survive. this is something real stupid to say, after the best mod show a video of these fuckers, being open about how they feel about black people.

[Reznov]

No, you're just apologizing for it.



We don't. And we don't need to, because that doesn't suddenly make it okay to kill black people and still makes that person a racist, no matter what influenced their view of black people.



Uh, you mean the evidence like eyewitness accounts and data from the coroner's office? You know, the evidence this article is based on and cites?

Jesus christ you're dense.

Apologizing? What? (I dont understand you at all) :confused:

Im sure you can probably make a well educated guess without even having to look at any evidence that there was most likely racism on a high level from blacks to latinos, whites to blacks, blacks to whites, latinos to blacks etc...

I do not deny the fact that the people in the video were racist, but all I said was (The whole point of me even posting in this thread) was trying to make a point that I was just curious as to why you guys seem so intent on bringing this specific point up which is mostly White on Black crime, when it was most likely a common theme throughout the hurricane katrina disaster bewteen all peoples involved in the disaster.

And, I think you guys think that I agree with the people in the video. In my previous post on this thread I said that I would defend myself in a natrual disaster, which you guys interpeted as me saying that I would kill blacks outright, which is wrong. All I said was that I would defend ymself from looters, be they black/white/latino etc...

[Obzervi]

Sorry, but I would shoot any looter that tried to take anything or harm my family.

So I see where the "White vigiliantes" are coming from. I think they were just trying to protect themselves but I know, that just seems crazy and the only reason is because they have to be horrible racist neo-nazis!

But in a situation like this, no one cares for politics or being called a racist.

Your White Privilege is showing. Its typical for whites such as yourself to automatically perceive impoverished blacks as "looters" and this perception would be exacerbated in a chaotic situation such as Hurricane Katrina. The blacks were looking for shelter. They were looking for food. The government failed them. According to the racist media if a black is taking something from a store he is a "looter", but if a white person does it its just a poor person trying to feed his family. These whites were so selfish they would rather shoot and kill innocent people rather than share a few bites of food. Truly fucked up situation.


.

And saying "Oh, well their White and racist!!!" just doesn't cut it. I believe there is more to the story.

Every person in this society is racist, including you and me. This is because we were raised and conditioned in a White Supremacist system which ascribes more value to white bodies over dark bodies. The white vigilantes were operating under a racist assumptions that black men are to be feared.

[#FF0000]

Apologizing? What? (I dont understand you at all) :confused:

You're making excuses for their racism is what I mean.


Im sure you can probably make a well educated guess without even having to look at any evidence that there was most likely racism on a high level from blacks to latinos, whites to blacks, blacks to whites, latinos to blacks etc...


But there aren't any reports of black or latino gangs going around to white people's houses with guns saying 'we don't like your kind around here'.

Also making an assumption without evidence is the exact opposite of an educated guess.

Also I'm don't even know what your point is with this. Does a black person hating a latino person or a white person absolve these white vigilantes somehow?


I do not deny the fact that the people in the video were racist, but all I said was (The whole point of me even posting in this thread) was trying to make a point that I was just curious as to why you guys seem so intent on bringing this specific point up which is mostly White on Black crime, when it was most likely a common theme throughout the hurricane katrina disaster bewteen all peoples involved in the disaster.

Yeah but the difference is that white death squads shot black people who weren't doing anything wrong. That's what the huge issue is. Black people were targeted and murdered by white vigilantes and by cops. Mass murders happened. That is a huge deal.


And, I think you guys think that I agree with the people in the video. In my previous post on this thread I said that I would defend myself in a natrual disaster, which you guys interpeted as me saying that I would kill blacks outright, which is wrong. All I said was that I would defend ymself from looters, be they black/white/latino etc...

Which is a complete non-sequitur, because we aren't talking about looters. Nobody in this thread is talking about looters. People in Algiers Point weren't talking about looters.

[Jimmie Higgins]

Thanks, I never once said that i supported anytihng described in the OP or the video, to shoot blacks or in a situation like this it would be justify it, so everyone needs to cool down a bit and stop with the whole trying to label me as some kind of racist bullshit.Sorry if I wasn't clear but I never labeled you as racist. You said shooting people was normal in this situation and that it wasn't motivated by racism and that politics have nothing to do with it. My point was illustrating how wrong you were in that statement through showing EXPLICITLY how racism and politics were a part of all this... therefore that famous photo-caption comparison. Also in the original article they talk about how in the early days of the disaster, there were reports going around, that turned out to be fabricated and imagined, of widespread black violence and looting. So racism and politics are a big part of this.


How do you know the Whites were jsut outright shooting them because they were black I know in the video thats what we saw, but what about before and after the video? Do we know the Whites involved point of view? How do you know their weren't blacks beating on Whites which the white people saw and caused them to form this opinion in the video/link? (I know, that is almost possible to think of Jimmie, but it happens!)We know based on personal accounts of people who were there that cops and white vigilantes were keeping black people from leaving the city or entering certain parts through the use of guns.

So my question to you is, why in the face of reports from black and white survivors of white violence against blacks, would you rather assume that some other evidence explaining that violence might be out there? If there is other explanations, let them come forward, but until then the evidence is fairly solid about what happened.


Sorry, but unlike you who labels everything as racist and White nationalist, I prefer to actually get some evidence as to why the white people in the video and link are like this and if they really are as "racist" as they seem.

And saying "Oh, well their White and racist!!!" just doesn't cut it. I believe there is more to the story.Why would you wait for some hypothetical evidence to form an opinion when there are numerous first-hand accounts saying that vigilantes were shooting people? Why would you allow for the possibility that the motivation for the vigilantes was that blacks were beating up whites where there is no evidence or accounts of this and there would be no motivation?

If I am touchy about this it's because every time there is a video showing cops beating or shooting someone, you hear this chorus from people saying: "Well we can't make a judgment because we don't know what happened before or after the video was taken... maybe the person who was laying on the ground and being beaten had been a werewolf before the video started". Ok, the werewolf thing is a joke, but the rest is not.

[Reznov]

Sorry if I wasn't clear but I never labeled you as racist. You said shooting people was normal in this situation and that it wasn't motivated by racism and that politics have nothing to do with it. My point was illustrating how wrong you were in that statement through showing EXPLICITLY how racism and politics were a part of all this... therefore that famous photo-caption comparison. Also in the original article they talk about how in the early days of the disaster, there were reports going around, that turned out to be fabricated and imagined, of widespread black violence and looting. So racism and politics are a big part of this.

We know based on personal accounts of people who were there that cops and white vigilantes were keeping black people from leaving the city or entering certain parts through the use of guns.

So my question to you is, why in the face of reports from black and white survivors of white violence against blacks, would you rather assume that some other evidence explaining that violence might be out there? If there is other explanations, let them come forward, but until then the evidence is fairly solid about what happened.

Why would you wait for some hypothetical evidence to form an opinion when there are numerous first-hand accounts saying that vigilantes were shooting people? Why would you allow for the possibility that the motivation for the vigilantes was that blacks were beating up whites where there is no evidence or accounts of this and there would be no motivation?

If I am touchy about this it's because every time there is a video showing cops beating or shooting someone, you hear this chorus from people saying: "Well we can't make a judgment because we don't know what happened before or after the video was taken... maybe the person who was laying on the ground and being beaten had been a werewolf before the video started". Ok, the werewolf thing is a joke, but the rest is not.

Alright, thank you Jimmie. I'll admit that I kind of did make an abrupt statement by just saying I would have done the same thing and I see how now re-reading what I said that it does seem to imply that I agree with the racist killings. I didn't mean it in that way and I met simply that If I was being endangered that I would protect myself in a big natural disaster such as katrina. (As I believe anyone would, but I guess this is a debate itself and theres no point in getting into it.)

You knew this was coming, but do you have sources? I know their personal accounts but still would be nice to have some sources.

I assume it because it probably did happen. It was a huge natrual disaster and I am wiling to bet there was violence by every side involved.

[#FF0000]

You knew this was coming, but do you have sources? I know their personal accounts but still would be nice to have some sources.

Uh, the article.


I assume it because it probably did happen. It was a huge natrual disaster and I am wiling to bet there was violence by every side involved.

no, see, that's why this is such a big deal. The original story was "OH MAN BLACK PEOPLE ARE CAUSING ALL SORTS OF PROBLEMS IN NEW ORLEANS NOW" and it turns out it wasn't as true as white people want to believe.

[Revy]

Alright, thank you Jimmie. I'll admit that I kind of did make an abrupt statement by just saying I would have done the same thing and I see how now re-reading what I said that it does seem to imply that I agree with the racist killings. I didn't mean it in that way and I met simply that If I was being endangered that I would protect myself in a big natural disaster such as katrina. (As I believe anyone would, but I guess this is a debate itself and theres no point in getting into it.)

You knew this was coming, but do you have sources? I know their personal accounts but still would be nice to have some sources.

I assume it because it probably did happen. It was a huge natrual disaster and I am wiling to bet there was violence by every side involved.

If it were a country like Haiti, where there was a recent earthquake...few people would question reports of violence like this. In a lawless situation...well, it's commonly thought by racist societal standards that people of that hue act violently.

But it seems like if there are reports like this in America of white Southerners murdering innocent people for racist reasons we need "sources". Or they could have been just "protecting themselves", instead of what they likely were being, violent racist psychopaths.

[Reznov]

Uh, the article.



no, see, that's why this is such a big deal. The original story was "OH MAN BLACK PEOPLE ARE CAUSING ALL SORTS OF PROBLEMS IN NEW ORLEANS NOW" and it turns out it wasn't as true as white people want to believe.

The article!?!?!?!? No shit. I was asking for more sources than the article.

How can we get rid of that "OH MAN BLACK PEOPLE ARE CAUSING ALL SORTS OF PROBLEMS IN NEW ORLEANS NOW" sterotype then?

[Reznov]

If it were a country like Haiti, where there was a recent earthquake...few people would question reports of violence like this. In a lawless situation...well, it's commonly thought by racist societal standards that people of that hue act violently.

But it seems like if there are reports like this in America of white Southerners murdering innocent people for racist reasons we need "sources". Or they could have been just "protecting themselves", instead of what they likely were being, violent racist psychopaths.

So its almost sub-consicouness for Whites in America then?

Not nesscarily to say "I HATE BLACKS" but like the example you gave, to just assume the worst?

[Volcanicity]

The article!?!?!?!? No shit. I was asking for more sources than the article.

How can we get rid of that "OH MAN BLACK PEOPLE ARE CAUSING ALL SORTS OF PROBLEMS IN NEW ORLEANS NOW" sterotype then?
By seeing black people as the same as any other,and not as some race apart.Its pretty simple, the only thing stopping people is inherent racism and close-mindedness.

[#FF0000]

The article!?!?!?!? No shit. I was asking for more sources than the article.

Man, you are hella dense.

[Reznov]

Man, you are hella dense.

Whats the point of even saying that? Just to try to get a cool one-liner?

Provide some more sources and actually contribute and live up to your username. (And yes, I mean more than the video as well.)

[#FF0000]

Provide some more sources and actually contribute and live up to your username. (And yes, I mean more than the video as well.)

http://www.thenation.com/article/katrinas-hidden-race-war

http://www.nola.com/crime/index.ssf/2010/04/algiers_point_vigilantes_terro.html

http://www.propublica.org/article/new-evidence-surfaces-in-post-katrina-crimes-710

http://sfbayview.com/2010/new-clues-emerge-in-post-katrina-vigilante-shooting-at-algiers-point/

Google, kid. Also, the overwhelming amount of white-on-black crime is something that, apparently, is just coming out, so.

Specifically, from the Nation's article:


In addition, state death records show that at least four people died in and around Algiers Point, a suspicious number, given that most Katrina fatalities were the result of drowning, and that the community never flooded. Neighborhood residents, black and white, remember seeing corpses lying out in the open that appeared to have been shot.

--

Some of the gunmen prowling Algiers Point were out to wage a race war, says one woman whose uncle and two cousins joined the cause. A former New Orleanian, this source spoke to me anonymously because she fears her relatives could be prosecuted for their crimes. "My uncle was very excited that it was a free-for-all--white against black--that he could participate in," says the woman. "For him, the opportunity to hunt black people was a joy."

"They didn't want any of the 'ghetto niggers' coming over" from the east side of the river, she says, adding that her relatives viewed African-Americans who wandered into Algiers Point as "fair game." One of her cousins, a young man in his 20s, sent an e-mail to her and several other family members describing his adventures with the militia. He had attached a photo in which he posed next to an African-American man who'd been fatally shot. The tone of the e-mail, she says, was "gleeful"--her cousin was happy that "they were shooting niggers."

An Algiers Point homeowner who wasn't involved in the shootings describes another attack. "All I can tell you is what I saw," says the white resident, who asked to remain anonymous for fear of reprisals. He witnessed a barrage of gunfire--from a shotgun, an AK-47 and a handgun--directed by militiamen at two African-American men standing on Pelican Street, not too far from Janak's place. The gunfire hit one of them. "I saw blood squirting out of his back," he says. "I'm an EMT. My instinct should've been to rush to him. But I didn't. And if I had, those guys"--the militiamen--"might have opened up on me, too."


Well don't you look silly.

[Fietsketting]

because anarchist socialist groups are the same world-round; they mostly are just talk, and hot air.
.

Your ignorance amazes me.

[Reznov]

http://www.thenation.com/article/katrinas-hidden-race-war

http://www.nola.com/crime/index.ssf/2010/04/algiers_point_vigilantes_terro.html

http://www.propublica.org/article/new-evidence-surfaces-in-post-katrina-crimes-710

http://sfbayview.com/2010/new-clues-emerge-in-post-katrina-vigilante-shooting-at-algiers-point/

Google, kid. Also, the overwhelming amount of white-on-black crime is something that, apparently, is just coming out, so.

Specifically, from the Nation's article:



Well don't you look silly.

Ah, thank you for those. Jesus, did we have to do all of this?



I look silly? For asking for sources and actually trying to better myself on a Leftist forum by debating and getting debunked on some bad beliefs I had?

[#FF0000]

Ah, thank you for those. Jesus, did we have to do all of this?



I look silly? For asking for sources and actually trying to better myself on a Leftist forum by debating and getting debunked on some bad beliefs I had?

Yeah you know what I'm being a jerk. Sorry.