Only 700 EDL members turn up for their 'big one'

[durhamleft]

Good that they weren't banned, but only a derisory number attended their 'protest'- bare in mind they were talking about hoping to get 5k-10k. Their latest demos have had much smaller numbers, and while I don't want to get carried away it would appear they have lost almost all the 'momentum' they had. Maybe it is due to the football season started, maybe it's because members have realised the 'we're just patriots' rhetoric is utter shite or maybe they've finally realised that its simply a few chavs from Luton making thousands of pounds from them buying hoodies, t shirts and coach journeys that are over-priced. Anyway, whatever the craic is, they appear to have pacified themselves to a certain degree.

5 reported arrests in Bradford, and some 'missiles' thrown, including a smoke bomb (probably by unite against), but other than that we've ignored the trouble they wanted.

[durhamleft]

http://www.workersliberty.org/story/2010/08/28/anti-fascists-curb-edl-bradford-despite-uaf

Author: By Chris Marks, Stephen Wood, Alice Marshall, Sam Greenwood and Sacha Ismail
Hundreds of anti-fascist protesters blocked the English Defence League from having a free run of Bradford today, taking on and battering the most militant racists – despite no support from Hope Not Hate, Unite Against Fascism or the leadership of the local labour movement. We proved that it was right to counter-demonstrate against the EDL.
Hope Not Hate, Bradford TUC and the Lib Dem council held a cultural festival miles outside the city centre – attended by less than a hundred and fifty people and described by one visitor as “more councillors than human beings”. (The police threw left-wingers out because it was “not supposed to be a political event!”) Five hundred UAF and SWP members gathered in Exchange Square, to listen to hip hop and hear speeches urging “respect” for the police and praising Tory Home Secretary Theresa May for banning the EDL’s attempts to march. Meanwhile five hundred people, a mix of leftists and self-organised youth, mostly Asian, rallied and counter-demonstrated, without police permission, metres from the EDL protest.
There were far fewer EDLers than the racists had predicted – about eight hundred, not the many thousands they boasted they would have. They shouted chants including "Allah is a paedo" and "We love the floods" (a reference to the disaster in Pakistan).
When a group of one or two hundred broke out from the EDL demonstration to rampage around the city, they got a nasty shock. Most of the counter-demonstration chased them through town before trapping some of them in Forster Square railway station and giving a few a good kicking.
Attempts to attack a local mosque were also beaten back, and some of the EDL coaches were stoned and had their tyres slashed.
Even as it was, with the dominant forces in the labour and anti-fascist movements working with community and religious leaders to prevent a counter-demo, we gave the racists a seriously hard time. We don’t care about the imams, police and Lib Dem councillors. But trade unionists and socialists who did not even join the counter-demonstration once it began should be deeply ashamed of themselves.
In contrast, supporters of the Stop Racism and Fascism network, including AWL members, argued for a counter-demonstration in the city centre from the very start. Bradford United Against Racism went door-to-door, mainly in Asian areas of the city, working to get people out. We are not pretending that the protest was organised by us; but we do feel proud that we argued for it and played a full role in it on the day. Ironically, the ban on marching praised by UAF speakers was also the reason why many Stop Racism and Fascism activists were stopped from leafleting by police, in some instances being threatened with arrest.
Events in Bradford suggest that two things are urgently necessary for the left.
The first is to challenge UAF and Hope Not Hate’s stranglehold over anti-fascist activity, particularly in the labour movement. Both campaigns have today once again shown themselves to be profoundly inadequate – in their lack of class politics and their advocacy of reliance on the police. As an absolute minimum, we need to insist that it is right to counter-demonstrate against militant racists and fascists - just as right as it was in the 1930s and 1970s.
The second is to build links with workers and youth Asian and Muslim communities at the sharp end of the fascist and racist threat. The demonstration in Bradford today was largely an amalgam of distinct elements: the only common chant was “Black and white, unite and fight – smash the EDL”; most of the Asian youth did not take up leftist chants, and chauvinistic comments against EDL members and sexist chants including against female police officers were heard repeatedly. The fact that hundreds of youth defied self-appointed community leaders to challenge the EDL on the streets is positive. But the left, which is largely white, has to stop treating Asian people as an ‘other’ that can only be organised on the basis of religion or communalism, and make the arguments for working-class unity and anti-capitalist struggle.
Don’t let the SWP lie about what happened!
Predictably, the bourgeois media is reporting clashes between the EDL and... UAF. We expect such ignorance from them. But we should not allow UAF itself, or the SWP, to lie about what happened on the day. We raise this because they have done so, many times, in the past.
There were, at most, half a dozen SWPers on the counter-demonstration – and not on the front-line – while hundreds obeyed the police and stayed in the square. Comrades, ask yourself why your organisation behaves like this – and then ask your organisers and leaders!

[Steve_j]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKJAB6IDNlI&has_verified=1

Ouch, im sure these two will think twice about attending another edl demo.

[Adi Shankara]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKJAB6IDNlI&has_verified=1

Ouch, im sure these two will think twice about attending another edl demo.

LOL that was awesome; you think this is the beginning of the end of neo-fascism in Britain if their biggest gathering couldn't even muster 1000 people?

[Adi Shankara]

Look at this EDL supporter who got OWND:

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/3115928/Fascist-group-and-rivals-clash.html

http://img.thesun.co.uk/multimedia/archive/01115/protest1_682_1115211a.jpg

EDIT: their forums are hilariously full of pissed off and scared EDL scum:

http://s1.zetaboards.com/EDL_The_Forum/topic/3739717/1/

[durhamleft]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKJAB6IDNlI&has_verified=1

Ouch, im sure these two will think twice about attending another edl demo.

I've watched that video about 10 times in a row. I'm actually starting to get somewhat aroused, is this normal?

[Rusty Shackleford]

i fucking love how it starts off with a guys face getting fucking smashed.

[durhamleft]

http://s1.zetaboards.com/EDL_The_Forum/topic/3740945/1/

They're getting angry.


- I love these guys like Clee1970 on their site, who still talk like 70's casuals with the whole 'we took their end' rhetoric, it's absolutely priceless.

The EDL took a panning yesterday, all the pictures and videos are of them getting beaten back/ with injuries, all the media reports say those who left their pen were also given a good hiding, they took sod all people and everything I saw was them getting chased around like the vermin those members are who wanted violence and yet they still live in this delusion that their 'big one' went to plan and was a success.

[NickGriffin]

Wow Wee

Looks like the EDL have been absolutely routed and humiliated.

[durhamleft]

Wow Wee

Looks like the EDL have been absolutely routed and humiliated.

They have certainly lost any of the momentum they had and for a 'big one' they have took an absolute pasting. We'll see how things develop but I see the start of splits developing. Hopefully they will soon begin to realise with Tory cuts coming in that they are the enemies of the working class and not Islam.

[Devrim]

Good that they weren't banned, but only a derisory number attended their 'protest'- bare in mind they were talking about hoping to get 5k-10k.

It is pretty much as could be expected. Of course they weren't going to get five to ten thousand people.

Devrim

[NickGriffin]

The EDL's mission in Bradford is exposed for the abject failure it was. This video also ridicules their operation as well as exposes them to be the retards they are:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqSl1sTQpZ0

Check this blog post out to see further humiliating insight and footage of one of them getting erm battered:
http://thefactsaboutislam.blogspot.com/2010/08/english-defence-league-edl-video.html

[NickGriffin]

I think EDL supporters are losing faith. They see the real enemy is not Muslims but the enemy is the government who are axing jobs left, right and centre.

Sadly the more manipulative amongst the EDL have hoodwinked those affected most by the job losses to join their evil racist empire

[durhamleft]

It is pretty much as could be expected. Of course they weren't going to get five to ten thousand people.

Devrim

I was expecting just under 5. They pulled out 2k in Newcastle and Bradford was the 'big one'.

[Steve_j]

Is anyone else notice the tabloids are stepping up the rhetoric against the EDL?

The sun labled them Fascist in their headlines and the Express and Star labeling them Biggots and race haters.

Must be lonley when even the right wing papers hate you.

[Sasha]

The EDL's mission in Bradford is exposed for the abject failure it was. This video also ridicules their operation as well as exposes them to be the retards they are:

BqSl1sTQpZ0

Check this blog post out to see further humiliating insight and footage of one of them getting erm battered:
http://thefactsaboutislam.blogspot.com/2010/08/english-defence-league-edl-video.html


Admin/mod note:

please refrain from using the word retard on this board, its considerd predjuidiced language, consider this an verbal warning.

(i also editted your post to fix your video link)

[Sam_b]

Only 700? This is a decent number for them.

You shouldn't be using the word 'chav'.

[durhamleft]

Only 700? This is a decent number for them.

You shouldn't be using the word 'chav'.

Attendances at last 7 EDL demos:

Stoke 1500
Bolton 1500
Dudley 2000
Aylesbury 800
Newcastle 1500 - 2000
Dudley 500
Bradford 700.

Therefore, 700 is a poor show from them, for a demo that was dubbed 'the big one' in which they said they hoped to get five to ten thousand people.

What is wrong with the word chav?

[Steve_j]

I think some people take offence to it because its usually used as a derogatory term for young working class people.

[durhamleft]

I think some people take offence to it because its usually used as a derogatory term for young working class people.

No, it's a term used to describe a certain section of society who have little respect for themselves, are hyped up on testosterone and tend to enjoy getting drunk in the local park.

It has nothing to do with the working class, the vast majority of the working class do not dress like or act like charvs, and there are sections of the middle class who do like to engage in charvy activities. To try and suggest it is a class issue is plain silly.

[Steve_j]

First, I didnt say i take offence to it.

Second, people are generally labled chavs by their clothes, style ect (and yes sometimes aswell as antisocial behaviour but that is usually reseved for the term "yob") and i dont think its much better then lableing a skinhead a neo nazi.

[durhamleft]

First, I didnt say i take offence to it.

Second, people are generally labled chavs by their clothes, style ect (and yes sometimes aswell as antisocial behaviour but that is usually reseved for the term "yob") and i dont think its much better then lableing a skinhead a neo nazi.

No it isn't that at all, if a lad has long black hair, tends to wears black and listens to heavy metal, I don't see the problem with calling him a 'goth'.

If a girl adores ska music, wears checky shirts and loves skateboarding, what is wrong with calling her a skater?

If a person wears trackies, nike airs and gold medallions, I don't see the issue with calling said person a charv.

And before anyone gives me the 'you shouldn't categorise people' bullshit, I was a goth for several years, and had no problem with being a Goth, and actually took pride in identifying myself with that identity.

[Steve_j]

If a person wears trackies, nike airs and gold medallions, I don't see the issue with calling said person a charv.


it's a term used to describe a certain section of society who have little respect for themselves, are hyped up on testosterone and tend to enjoy getting drunk in the local park.

See the issue now?

[Devrim]

Attendances at last 7 EDL demos:

Stoke 1500
Bolton 1500
Dudley 2000
Aylesbury 800
Newcastle 1500 - 2000
Dudley 500
Bradford 700.

Therefore, 700 is a poor show from them, for a demo that was dubbed 'the big one' in which they said they hoped to get five to ten thousand people.


Only 700? This is a decent number for them.

But in total it is a pretty small demonstration. I have been on workers' demonstrations in the UK that were four or five times that number and haven't even got a mention in the national press.

It is pretty clear that the EDL is actually a pretty tiny marginalised group.

Devrim

[durhamleft]

See the issue now?

Maybe ;)

[Sam_b]

Therefore, 700 is a poor show from them, for a demo that was dubbed 'the big one' in which they said they hoped to get five to ten thousand people.

No it isn't. These things have other factors to take into play. The fact that there were various council challenges to the action, plus very evident splits in the white nationalist movement, the BNP and the EDL itself makes this a decent turnout for them in the circumstances.


and tend to enjoy getting drunk in the local park

Is there a problem with this? In my town most young people would do this because there was nothing else to do and nowhere else to go.


To try and suggest it is a class issue is plain silly

Its intrinsically class based, and has notoriously been employed as an attack both on young people and the working class. This 'certain section of society' is often a poor excuse at veiled attacks on young people and workers.

Of all my grumblings about the SSP, they got it spot on here:

Rosie Kane received criticism for opposing the Executive's use of the word 'ned' (non educated delinquent). Ministers were using a catch all phrase to describe a criminal element they could not define or provide evidence of, and therefore ended up tarring youth with the same brush. Just as the words 'junkie' and 'hooker' are offensive 'ned' is a degrading term. Many criticised Rosie for her stance saying she missed the bigger picture. The problem was that the media put our words out of context and ignoring what we said about poverty. As with the drugs campaign, the SSP must realise the media is not our ally and for the next four years each campaign we launch will face this distortion.

Ned, of course, being 'chav's Scottish equivolent.

http://www.redflag.org.uk/frontline/ten/10youth.html

Richard Seymour is absolutely correct here as well:


This is the striking thing about the 'chavs' phenomena - its micro-progenitors are often middle class 'liberals', racist, classist and ignorant to the very marrow, yet who operate under the strange illusion that they are enlightened, liberal, anti-racist while it is their designated 'chavs' who are racist, sexist, vulgar etc.

The discourse is notable for one other curiosity - it 'ethnicises' poverty. K-Punk asked (http://k-punk.abstractdynamics.org/archives/006359.html) some while back: "Why is it that the desire to eliminate poverty - which, presumably, we all share - inevitably becomes a desire to eliminate the poor? It is because, in capitalist ideology, poverty has to be thought of as an ethnic, rather than a social or economic, trait? The poor are those who are genetically destined to fail, those who lack 'middle-class skills' as the Herald and Tribune put it the other day". The very word 'chav' appears to derive from the 'gypsy' word 'chavo' meaning 'little person'. It has long been used in the South East, and has now become a chic reference for 'culturally aware' apolitical liberals. Often it is the same people who indulge in gypsy-bashing who retail the schtick.


http://leninology.blogspot.com/2005/12/chavs.html

[durhamleft]

No it isn't. These things have other factors to take into play. The fact that there were various council challenges to the action, plus very evident splits in the white nationalist movement, the BNP and the EDL itself makes this a decent turnout for them in the circumstances.



Is there a problem with this? In my town most young people would do this because there was nothing else to do and nowhere else to go.



Its intrinsically class based, and has notoriously been employed as an attack both on young people and the working class. This 'certain section of society' is often a poor excuse at veiled attacks on young people and workers.

Of all my grumblings about the SSP, they got it spot on here:


Ned, of course, being 'chav's Scottish equivolent.

http://www.redflag.org.uk/frontline/ten/10youth.html

Richard Seymour is absolutely correct here as well:




http://leninology.blogspot.com/2005/12/chavs.html


I think this is reading too much into it. When I use the term chav, well 'charv' as I'm from the North, it's in relation to fashion, but also, in fairness activities. I genuinely do not think when it is being used as that it is meant to be an attack on 'a certain section of youth or workers', in the same way I genuinely don't see a problem when I was stereo typed as a Goth, to me it is a part and parcel of everyday life, and for many young people the 'charv' identity is something they actively chose to attack themselves to. I really don't have much too say on this issue.

Regarding the EDL demonstration, sure, 700 people is 700 more than one would want them to get, we all know that. And yes, of course circumstances will have effected the march however, to me, it shows i) a decrease in their numbers (can only be a good thing?) but also it wasn't the mass numbers they hoped for, and while I would be apprehensive about saying that we have won or anything silly like that, I'm merely pointing out things went pretty bloody well yesterday for us and was a nightmare for them. The battle was won but the war goes on, to use a cliche.

[Sam_b]

I think this is reading too much into it

It really isn't.


When I use the term chav, well 'charv' as I'm from the North, it's in relation to fashion, but also, in fairness activities

Honestly, I couldn't care. It's not good enough to pull out the old and tired argument of "I didn't mean it like that". Though it's an interesting admittance that you characterise and stereotype people by supposed existing 'groups' and supposed behavioural patterns.


I genuinely do not think when it is being used as that it is meant to be an attack on 'a certain section of youth or workers', in the same way I genuinely don't see a problem when I was stereo typed as a Goth, to me it is a part and parcel of everyday life, and for many young people the 'charv' identity is something they actively chose to attack themselves to. I really don't have much too say on this issue.

This means nothing. Just because you don't have a problem with being labelled doesn't mean you can or should do it. The logical extreme would be that someone is comfortable being labelled as a 'cracker' so it gives them a carte-blanche to label Asian people 'p*kis'. If you don't see it as a sectioned and measured attack on young working class people, I can only assume you didn't read the cited articles. I don't think everyday life means it's acceptable to be labelled and classified on what society thinks you apparently 'are'.

For the record, I kind of agree with your second paragraph.

[durhamleft]

It really isn't.



Honestly, I couldn't care. It's not good enough to pull out the old and tired argument of "I didn't mean it like that". Though it's an interesting admittance that you characterise and stereotype people by supposed existing 'groups' and supposed behavioural patterns.



This means nothing. Just because you don't have a problem with being labelled doesn't mean you can or should do it. The logical extreme would be that someone is comfortable being labelled as a 'cracker' so it gives them a carte-blanche to label Asian people 'p*kis'. If you don't see it as a sectioned and measured attack on young working class people, I can only assume you didn't read the cited articles. I don't think everyday life means it's acceptable to be labelled and classified on what society thinks you apparently 'are'.

For the record, I kind of agree with your second paragraph.

But you yourself are characterising people. Surely if you object to the use of the term 'goth' then you should object to the term 'asian' as one shouldn't categorise by race? I presume you also object to describing people based upon their sexuality, or say it's wrong to talk about hippie culture? This is where it gets plain fucking stupid. People identify with groups all the time, whether it be their nationality or their choice of clothes, and to me the use of the term 'charv', 'hippie' or 'goth' isn't a big issue unless the person objects, which mostly I suspect they won't. We used to be in a group called 'Goth power' for fuck's sake, we embraced the identity, in the same way some ethnic minorities choose to do so. This is definitely my last post as we will never agree on this issue and there are bigger issues to be debated than this and I need to pack.

take care.

[Sam_b]

Surely if you object to the use of the term 'goth' then you should object to the term 'asian' as one shouldn't categorise by race?

Missed the point.


People identify with groups all the time, whether it be their nationality or their choice of clothes

Yeah, the people themselves. But why do they need to, when you're doing it for them?


and to me the use of the term 'charv'

Again, I don't care how you use it or what it means 'to you'.


We used to be in a group called 'Goth power' for fuck's sake

Yeah, you did.


This is definitely my last post as we will never agree on this issue and there are bigger issues to be debated than this and I need to pack.

I would argue language that is attacking workers and young people, as seen in the articles than again I guess you didn't read, is a big issue; and I genuinely think you're making it your 'last post' (which never actually happens on here, people say it all the time) because you cannot answer to them.

[Adi Shankara]

The only reason why EDL attracts media attention is because they're a controversial group who advocate an unpopular idea; it's like whenever you have 50-100 klansmen, outnumbered 300-1, you will always hear about the klansmen on national television here in the states.

[GreenCommunism]

No, it's a term used to describe a certain section of society who have little respect for themselves, are hyped up on testosterone and tend to enjoy getting drunk in the local park.

It has nothing to do with the working class, the vast majority of the working class do not dress like or act like charvs, and there are sections of the middle class who do like to engage in charvy activities. To try and suggest it is a class issue is plain silly.

you should respect every subculture.

But you yourself are characterising people. Surely if you object to the use of the term 'goth' then you should object to the term 'asian' as one shouldn't categorise by race? I presume you also object to describing people based upon their sexuality, or say it's wrong to talk about hippie culture? This is where it gets plain fucking stupid. People identify with groups all the time, whether it be their nationality or their choice of clothes, and to me the use of the term 'charv', 'hippie' or 'goth' isn't a big issue unless the person objects, which mostly I suspect they won't

well i guess you're right, the attitude toward this should be just as tolerant as we are toward trans, the person decide what he is called.

[Sam_b]

we are toward trans, the person decide what he is called.

This is pretty ironic.

[welshexile1963]

EDL are total wankers, glad they got their asses kicked! Well done all :thumbup1:

[Montag451]

1. What were uaf/antifascist numbers?
2. Who gave them the beating? The MDL? What is the story behind MDL? Isn't this just what the EDL wants? Edl vs Mdl, riots between english and muslim?
3. I think it's alright to use the word retard. Also i think it's alright to use the word chav. These word have symbolic/verbal violence behind them, but even worse would be to censor them.
Political correctness is what alienates the left today from the working class.
4. EDL is marginal but is not being marginalised. They get a fair amount of media attention.

[Devrim]

4. EDL is marginal but is not being marginalised. They get a fair amount of media attention.

Yes, the media loves them. I remember an instance in Turkey where there was an academic conference on the Armenian genocide. Nationalists were protesting outside it, and it was front page news in every paper, and first item on TV news, for two days.

On the Sunday, the second day, there was a march in Ankara against health care cuts. There were about 4,000 people it got no mention that I saw in any media. On the same day the nationalist demonstration on the front page of every paper the following morning had 19 people.

Despite their media attention, they are a small marginal group that will fade completely in a couple of years.

Devrim

[Delenda Carthago]

the antifa numbers up in there?

[LebenIstKrieg]

http://img.thesun.co.uk/multimedia/archive/01115/protest1_682_1115211a.jpg

boom headshot!!!

[Wanted Man]

Is anyone else notice the tabloids are stepping up the rhetoric against the EDL?

The sun labled them Fascist in their headlines and the Express and Star labeling them Biggots and race haters.

Must be lonley when even the right wing papers hate you.

Well, that only makes sense. What did you expect, that they were going to back the EDL? In recent years, they've also been particularly strongly against the BNP and "Nazi Nick". After all, fascism is non-English, it's something more suitable for "ze Germans". Why would the tabloids or any other establishment outlet need to support them? They've already got three big parties restricting immigration and sending troops to Afghanistan.

[Admiral Swagmeister G-Funk]

What a bunch of tossers. They're all complaining now, about this "black on white attack" (in reference to the video of an Asian guy delivering a hefty blow to an EDL thug), ignoring the fact that this reaction happened because of their pathetic, xenophobic marches. If they didn't march through multi-ethnic regions, provoking the Muslim community and shout "Paki" at anyone with brown skin, then they wouldn't get their noses broken.

They're just racist thugs, using the guise of Islam to preach hate and provoke Muslims. I hope that the genuine workers who had illusions in the EDL will now see that they do not actually represent their wishes what so ever.

Really, the EDL justifies the existence of the Muslim Defence League and all of the beatings the EDL get. Not that I agree with an MDL - all workers, regardless of race or creed, should unite to stop these vile thugs from gaining any platform. Let's hope that the EDL's numbers continue to decrease, while unity within the working class increases.

[durhamleft]

Well, that only makes sense. What did you expect, that they were going to back the EDL? In recent years, they've also been particularly strongly against the BNP and "Nazi Nick". After all, fascism is non-English, it's something more suitable for "ze Germans". Why would the tabloids or any other establishment outlet need to support them? They've already got three big parties restricting immigration and sending troops to Afghanistan.

I'd expect them to call the EDL nationalists, or right wing, or Islamophobic even maybe, but I must say I am surprised when the Daily Mail call a group with beliefs quite similar to their own 'fascist'. It's quite apparent from their website most the readers back the EDL.

[Devrim]

I'd expect them to call the EDL nationalists, or right wing, or Islamophobic even maybe, but I must say I am surprised when the Daily Mail call a group with beliefs quite similar to their own 'fascist'. It's quite apparent from their website most the readers back the EDL.

The Daily Mail is nationalist, right-wing and Islamophobic. English nationalism is to a certain extent defined by 'the struggle against fascism' (read inter-imperialist rivalry with Germany). That is why 'Neo-Nazism' never played well at all in England, and the BNP have been much more successful since dropping the jackboots and becoming more 'British'.

What I think the Mail probably doesn't like about them is the street mobilisations. That is why they call them fascist.

Devrim