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View Full Version : The Case for a New, Commune-Based Socialism



Monkey Riding Dragon
28th August 2010, 18:15
What follows is my finished article reassessing China's history with socialism in general and the Cultural Revolution in particular and highlighting the need for a commune-based vision of socialism as part of that. PLEASE LET ME KNOW WHAT YOU THINK!

Be forewarned though, it's kinda lengthy: it amounted to 13 single-spaced pages on a regular Word document, encompassing over 7,600 words. So you may want to read through this when you have a lot of time on your hands or in multiple sittings. I worked very hard on this though and DEFINITELY WANT SOME INPUT!

Okay, here goes...


THE CASE FOR A NEW, COMMUNE-BASED SOCIALISM


INTRODUCTION

Before I actually get started with what I have to say, I think it’s going to be important for the reader to first get a sense of the central problem I’m aiming to identify and break out of through example. Below you’ll find a link to a late-2004 interview with Bob Avakian, Chairman of the Revolutionary Communist Party, USA, wherein he contextualizes China’s Cultural Revolution, explains some reasons why it was necessary, describes its character and some of its historic achievements, and then criticizes what he sees as certain shortcomings that its conduct featured, in particular calling for a 100 Flowers Campaign style of societal openness regarding the role of intellectuals and artists to be understood as necessarily at least a more or less permanent characteristic of future socialist societies if we’re serious about bringing a communist world into being, and also recognizing the need to establish a new type of communist party in the future; one that’s based on the formulation “solid core with a lot of elasticity” rather than classical “democratic centralism”. Before proceeding further with this article, please go ahead and take a listen to the full contents of the interview.

Michael Slate interviews Bob Avakian on China, the Cultural Revolution, Art, and Dissent (http://www.revcom.us/avakian/MSlate_Interviews/BTS-03-29-05-48.mp3)
(http://www.revcom.us/avakian/MSlate_Interviews/BTS-03-29-05-48.mp3)
So what’s wrong with that, you ask? Well my criticism isn’t per se directed at the main thrust of what BA was speaking to there, upholding the Cultural Revolution as the greatest advance toward communism the world has yet seen and putting forward criticisms of its conduct, but rather at a real shortcoming that permeates a lot of the content: dogmatism.

Throughout the interview linked above, Bob pretty one-sidedly upholds just about everything Mao ever did and, on one level or another, rejects just about everything Mao wasn’t personally associated with. That much is hard to miss. Even his proverbial guided tour of China’s revolutionary history is all portrayed from Mao’s perspective, as if no one else made any relevant or distinguishable contributions (that were good) to the Chinese socialist revolution as a whole or to the Cultural Revolution in particular. In point of fact, similar thinking is woefully prevalent throughout the (genuine) world communist movement. Now it’s not only a good thing, but a vital thing (lest we communists indeed become “residue of the past” rather than a “vanguard of the future”) that Bob makes (sometimes valid) criticisms of the shortcomings of this crucial historical experience, but my point is that we need to be willing to examine socialist history in a more critical way that doesn’t wholly or near-wholly revolve around the perspective of a particular individual, even if that individual did indeed contribute an extraordinary amount of new and vital things to the science of communism, as Mao did. Instead, we should carefully re-examine the historical record in a way that more fully recognizes the definition of socialism and that much more fully takes a broad range of perspectives, including historical perspectives, into account to develop a correct understanding and synthesize the corresponding lessons for today and tomorrow. The purpose of this article will be to initiate that comprehensive re-examination by providing a new perspective on the historical record, starting with what I think is the most important point in that record: China’s Cultural Revolution. First, however, it will be important to provide a reassessed contextualization of that.


REVOLUTIONARY CHINA: A BRIEF OVERVIEW

State capitalism was a transitional aspect of new democratic revolution. The basic concept of new democratic revolution was in part that, in oppressed nations, it's possible to forge a very broad united front for the revolutionary seizure of power because there are even capitalists who, as a result of their principally patriotic loyalties, are willing to support revolution and socialism. It should be deeply grasped by people here that large chunks of the third world bourgeoisie are not even as affluent as and have less access to capital than many first world workers! Hence those who argue that it's just automatically wrong or impossible for communists in the third world to forge a revolutionary united front with the patriotic (i.e. potentially insurgent) capitalists in their respective countries might just as well argue against uniting the whole of the proletariat here!

Mao's argument for achieving socialism through a process of state capitalism is based on the principle of holding this revolutionary united front together, such that the more bourgeois third world elements come to more fully adopt the communist moral position of production for the purpose of serving society rather than for private accumulation. And yes the patriotic third world bourgeois elements can be won over to that morality and, in that sort of way, ultimately be brought to rupture concretely with capitalist relations. This was the essence of Mao's argument. And the approach was successful, mind you. Socialism was basically achieved in China by 1958. The Great Leap Forward that was initiated in that year was in part an attempt at consolidating the victory of socialism in China. Hence why I argue in my new Maoist theory that the failure of the Cultural Revolution to bring back the basic (albeit an altered) model of large scale communes was a clear hallmark of revisionism. It shows that the leadership of the country ultimately just gave up on the idea of consolidating socialism.

Also, this basic character of the Great Leap Forward -- being oriented toward consolidating socialism -- is the real, underlying reason it was opposed by the Soviet Union. The social-imperialist USSR aimed to keep China economically subordinate to itself. In order for that to be a reality, there needed to continue to be a significant array of capitalist economic relations in China. Hence shortly after the Great Leap Forward got going, the Soviet Union pulled out its economic advisers and blueprints and imposed a trade embargo on China in protest, forcibly exiting China from the Cold War and, in part, undermining the economic success of the Great Leap in terms of socialist accumulation, as well as forcing the Chinese Communists to increasingly recognize the Cold War for what it actually was: a high-profile rivalry between two giant imperialist superpowers and their respective spheres of influence in which communists should have no part.

So during the 1960s especially, a real crisis situation emerged in China. Partly as a result of how China had successfully forged its revolution (which never would have happened in any principally different way!), the communists were united with these nationalist elements who, especially with increasing pressure resulting from the USSR's embargo, were exerting increasing sway over the government and the Communist Party as a whole. And they unfortunately won a broad array of concessions in the course of the early-to-mid '60s and were clearly aiming to achieve full-fledged rapprochement with the United States, such that China might have some sort of powerful trade patron on which for private enterprises to rely. The Cultural Revolution was an attempt at defeating that tendency ideologically and achieving new revolutionary victories in the process. Hence it was formulated as a basic question of "the socialist road or the capitalist road?". The bottom line here is that Mao significantly underestimated the direness of the situation and accordingly prescribed an inadequate solution. The truth is that the state and Communist Party themselves were structurally flawed in fundamental ways that would objectively tend to direct them back to capitalism under such averse circumstances. As such, they really needed to be completely destroyed and replaced by a whole new people's state and by a new communist party, the respective embryos of which should have been the Red Guards, the Shanghai Commune, and the Cultural Revolution Group.

There were some in the leadership of the country (most heavily concentrated in the Cultural Revolution Group) who, more fully than Mao, recognized how bad the situation was and came closer to recognizing what needed to really be done. This included people like Lin Biao and Jiang Qing. Anyhow, the upsurge of the Cultural Revolution really lasted from 1966 to the fall of 1967, after which point the army had basically brought authentic revolutionary progress to a halt. By the end of the year, the Cultural Revolution Group had been purged of many of its genuinely revolutionary members and its paper, Red Flag, made to stop publication. Whereas Mao himself supported these measures, I tend to assess that Mao himself became, for all practical purposes, a revisionist at some point in 1967 or at least had clearly begun making enormous mistakes in that year. The subsequent year saw the Red Guards ordered to stand down to the army and then increasingly punished by being shipped off to the countryside. Finally, after the Soviet Union began conducting border raids on China in March of 1969, by the start of the next month the old CP, essentially suspended during the Cultural Revolution, had been reconstituted under Mao's leadership. By the summer of that same year, the Red Guards were officially disbanded. By the end of 1971, most, if not all, of the revolutionary members of the Politburo had been removed. Early the next year, an initial rapprochement with the United States had been achieved. You get the picture. Overwhelmingly, things headed downhill after the fall of 1967. The counterrevolution was consolidated with the coup of 1976, wherein the remaining revolutionary leaders in the state, including the so-called gang of four, were arrested. And that was the decisive end of socialism in China.


A REASSESSMENT OF THE CULTURAL REVOLUTION AND OF THE COURSE FOR THE FUTURE

By 1962, it was clear that China was headed down the road back to capitalism. The country’s top leaders, both in the state and in the Communist Party itself (e.g. Liu Shaoqi as president and Deng Xiaoping as party leader), over the course of the early-to-mid ‘60s systematically downsized the communes, re-implemented professional management schemes and material incentives, plainly promoted rapprochement with the United States in the face of the growing contradiction between China and the Soviet Union, and just generally put economic pragmatism in command. This emerging economic pragmatist philosophy was perhaps best concentrated in Deng Xiaoping’s famous statement from 1961 that “I don’t care if it’s a black cat or a white cat. It’s a good cat so long as it catches mice.” This rhetoric was meant to imply that as long as China’s economy grew, it didn’t matter whether it did so in a socialist way or in a capitalist way.

The struggle to get back on the socialist road to communism began in earnest with Mao’s launching of the socialist education movement that year. This movement, which sought to put revolutionary (and eventually specifically Maoist) politics in command of the education system and thereby change the overall cultural life of the nation to a socialist one, ran through 1965 and was soon joined with a related campaign promoting the essential type of thinking concentrated in Lin Biao’s reforms of the People’s Liberation Army, which did away with insignia and ranks, ended special officer privileges, restored the Yenan type soldier-worker-peasant combinations, combated officer caste mentality, and promoted Maoist politics generally within the army. It’s important not to negate the historic importance of this movement! While it’s obvious that this movement failed to achieve its central objective of transforming the whole culture of the society to a socialist one, it’s also clear that it left a big impression on large portions of the youth, many of whom would, based on this inspiration, subsequently become the Red Guards of China’s Cultural Revolution. So we see the importance of having political movements like this in the socialist school system itself.

In January of 1965, Mao and a select few key others recognized that the problem was worse than originally thought and that there was a need for a full-fledged Cultural Revolution. A special Five-Man Group was established to promote the idea of a radical transformation of the society. It accomplished very, very little and was replaced in the spring of 1966 by the Cultural Revolution Group, which Mao tasked with, rather than continuing to try and accomplish radicalization through the machinery of the party and the state, instead leading a popular rebellion against the revisionist elements in power toward the aim re-conquering the party and state. This was truly radical! Never before had any communist leader suggested it was correct to fight “a revolution under the dictatorship of the proletariat” to prevent counterrevolution! And I find it to hardly be coincidental that the great worldwide revolutionary upsurge of the late ‘60s just so happened to largely coincide with China’s Cultural Revolution. People all over the world looked to what was going on in China and lifted their heads! People everywhere were inspired by this massive upsurge in China! After all, their own governments were suppressing them in their attempts to challenge the old policies and norms. To this China stood in stark contrast. In China, unlike anywhere else in the world, leading people in the society supported popular rebellion against their own state! This signified to people throughout the world that China was a very different kind of society; the kind that the restless youth of that era would want to live in and could take heart from. We should never ever distance ourselves from the principle of the Cultural Revolution!

Obviously, however, the Cultural Revolution was ultimately defeated and capitalism restored. So the question that now emerges is ‘what went wrong?’. For the duration of this article, I’m going to be arguing that the most important flaw of the Cultural Revolution was the goal Mao had set out for it: the goal of bringing China back onto the socialist road by transforming the existing state and the existing Communist Party. This will bring us around to problems that we still face today, such as the inability to adequately distinguish authentic communist tendencies from revisionist ones as well as problems of our hitherto vision of socialism itself. One thing I do want to emphasize though before continuing is that you’ll notice that the revolutionary tendency in China united not around Leninist Marxism, as far too many comrades seek to do today, but around the most advanced communist synthesis available to them: in their case, what they called Mao Zedong Thought and what we today call Maoism. We need to learn this lesson much better and apply it far more fully!

Anyhow, to begin on the record of the Cultural Revolution itself, I’ll start out by pointing out the contrast between its most important stated goal and the end result.

Mao’s famous giant poster, Bombard the Headquarters (from August 6, 1966) states: “China's first Marxist-Leninist big-character poster and Commentator's article on it in People's Daily are indeed superbly written! Comrades, please read them again. But in the last fifty days or so some leading comrades from the central down to the local levels have acted in a diametrically opposite way. Adopting the reactionary stand of the bourgeoisie, they have enforced a bourgeois dictatorship and struck down the surging movement of the great cultural revolution of the proletariat. They have stood facts on their head and juggled black and white, encircled and suppressed revolutionaries, stifled opinions differing from their own, imposed a white terror, and felt very pleased with themselves. They have puffed up the arrogance of the bourgeoisie and deflated the morale of the proletariat. How poisonous! Viewed in connection with the Right deviation in 1962 and the wrong tendency of 1964 which was 'Left' in form but Right in essence, shouldn't this make one wide awake?”

You’ll find it hard to miss that Mao viewed the downsizing of the large-scale communes as a “right deviation” at the outset. Likewise we find in the Central Committee’s famous 16 Points that came out three days later, defining the objectives of the Cultural Revolution, the following description: “At present, our objective is to struggle against and crush those persons in authority who are taking the capitalist road, to criticize and repudiate the reactionary bourgeois academic "authorities" and the ideology of the bourgeoisie and all other exploiting classes and to transform education, literature and art, and all other parts of the superstructure that do not correspond to the socialist economic base, so as to facilitate the consolidation and development of the socialist system.” Here we find the goal clearly defined: the consolidation of socialism, which was, as we’ll recall, what was attempted in the Great Leap Forward. The radical transformation of all the “parts of the superstructure that do not correspond to the socialist economic base” was premised on the objective of facilitating “the consolidation and development of the socialist system”. The fact that this consolidation of socialism never occurred even after the party was reconstituted under Mao’s leadership then should strike us as highly significant! I point this out because woefully few comrades even discuss this matter! But what led to this contrast between the central objective on the one hand and the outcome on the other? Let’s start with what I view as the most important event of the Cultural Revolution.

Throughout the latter part of 1966, a rising tide of radicalism, initiated by the local Red Guards and spread to the local factories, was increasingly sweeping Shanghai. A large number of worker-based groups were formed in the process. In early November, many of these groups banded together to form the Headquarters of the Revolutionary Revolt of Shanghai Workers led by Wang Hongwen. On January 3rd, Lin Biao and Jiang Qing, employing the local media and cadres, initiated the January Storm against the municipal government of Shanghai. Two days later, the Shanghai Workers’ Headquarters called for a general uprising against the city government, and the following day over a million people rose up and overthrew it. Over the course of the following month, members of the Cultural Revolution Group (namely Zhang Chunqiao and Yao Wenyuan) led a revolutionary reorganization of the city political structure through which the masses established the Shanghai People’s Commune on February 5th. In many respects, this was the height of the Cultural Revolution. The Shanghai People’s Commune was loosely modeled on the Paris Commune, featuring the self-government of producers as the most defining element. However, it also featured a higher degree of specifically communist leadership (e.g. some general direction provided by Zhang) than had the Paris Commune. This contrasting feature is something that I think should be understood as decisive in terms of the model’s basic sustainability. Unlike the Paris Commune of old, there is no evidence to suggest that the Shanghai People’s Commune could not have survived indefinitely. Unfortunately however, more conservative leaders of the Cultural Revolution, including Mao himself, ceased to think so. Though Mao had initially supported both the January Storm and commune-style reorganization, he came to oppose the commune approach to municipal reorganization based on standard arguments about the short life span of the Paris Commune, calling instead for the Commune to be replaced with a Revolutionary Committee: a triple-alliance of local workers, cadres, and elements of the People’s Liberation Army. Whereas Mao enjoyed great prestige at the time among the revolutionaries, his opinion weighed heavily and the revolutionary committee model was implemented just 19 days after the establishment of the People’s Commune in Shanghai. I’ve focused in on this particular development because I think it showcases a very real and more potent approach to the Cultural Revolution that could have come forward, but was instead rejected. This was a crucial error! The Shanghai People’s Commune could have and should have become an approximate model for emulation nationwide and the Red Guards systematically dispatched to organize revolutionary headquarters of producers throughout the country on a locale-by-locale basis to prepare the ground for a whole China-wide wave of popular power seizures. The communes individually thereby established might then have organized a new people’s army with which to liberate China as a whole and replace its old state and party institutions with a new state based approximately on this Shanghai People’s Commune model and a new communist party born out of the Cultural Revolution Group. Indeed, once again, Mao himself had originally favored the commune model, but was dissuaded by the more conservative revolutionary committees that were also established in January and February of 1967 in Shanxi province and in Harbin, wherein the PLA soldiers had assisted the local revolutionaries in seizing power.

Another important 1967 development that’s worth highlighting specifically is the Wuhan Incident, wherein, following an attempt by the local revolutionary people in the Wuhan Workers’ Headquarters to seize power, divisional commander General Chen Zaidao and the “Million Heroes” reactionaries on his side conducted a siege against them. Zhou Enlai issued an order from Beijing for Chen to lift the siege, which was ignored. Subsequently, two members of the Cultural Revolution Group, Xie Fuzhi and Wang Li, were dispatched to Wuhan and on July 16th ordered the general to switch from supporting the Million Heroes to supporting the Workers’ Headquarters. Chen’s response was to have his army division kidnap both Xie and Wang on the 20th. A mass demonstration erupted in protest of the general’s actions. Zhou Enlai now opted to personally fly to Wuhan to resolve the incident. At General Chen’s direction, however, tanks and other military units surrounded the local airstrip and prevented his plane from landing. At that point, it had become clear that peaceful negotiation was impossible. On July 22nd, Jiang Qing advised the Red Guards to replace the army if necessary. The incident itself was only resolved when Beijing sent in three infantry divisions, several navy gunboats, and an air unit to intercept Chen’s forces, forcing him to surrender and freeing Xie and Wang. This incident was a concentration of the increasingly prevailing attitude of hostility toward the Cultural Revolution in the PLA amongst the generals. Major opposition to the Cultural Revolution from high profile military figures indeed had been voiced early on therein. Accordingly, Lin Biao and Jiang Qing had called on the Red Guards to spread revolutionary struggle to the army and transform it in that way. The Wuhan Incident marked the onset in earnest of increasing armed resistance to this on the army’s part. Hence it was very appropriate and advanced that Jiang Qing had called, in the midst of this situation, for the army’s replacement where needed. But again, this really lacked the proper form required to be victorious. The PLA was still mistakenly being viewed by the revolutionary leadership as being simply in need of reform through struggle, not of comprehensive and permanent replacement by a new people’s army. This was an important opportunity to learn how thoroughly non-reformable the existing state, including its armed bodies, really were that was at least largely missed. But we also see that Jiang Qing had come closer than others to recognizing what was truly necessary. We should uphold that.

It’s important to highlight the Wuhan Incident because it wasn’t an isolated phenomenon, but the beginning in earnest of a whole new dynamic. From early on, the PLA had generally opposed and sought to suppress the Red Guards and the masses more broadly. Now, for the next year or so, the Cultural Revolution would in significant portion be a protracted struggle (including armed struggle) between the Red Guards and the PLA, the outcome of which would, in no small part, determine the outcome of the Cultural Revolution itself. It is no exaggeration to say that the army became the main enemy of the Red Guard movement and of the Cultural Revolution Group itself and persistently remained the state body least affected by the Cultural Revolution. September of 1967 was a decisive moment, when Mao ordered the arrest of the “May 16th Corps” of the Cultural Revolution Group, including Wang Li, hero of the Wuhan Incident and original formulator of “continuing the revolution under the dictatorship of the proletariat”. Wang’s “May 16th Corps” had been a key, informal, and leading body within the Cultural Revolution Group that promoted the struggles of the Red Guards against the army and advocated power seizures from below. This was part and parcel to orders at the same time for the PLA to ‘restore order’ in China. Nearly all of the Group’s members would be arrested by the end of the Cultural Revolution. But specifically with this initial act purging the Group of its leading revolutionary element and ordering the army to ‘restore order’, the Group itself became almost immediately, for most practical purposes, defunct and power seizures rapidly ceased to take place essentially from below. By November, the Cultural Revolution Group had been ordered to stop publishing its journal, Red Flag. What all this signified, among other things, was Mao’s decisive shift to the right, now mostly supporting the army against the Red Guards. From this point forward, the authentic revolutionaries were mostly on the defensive.

The ensuing year was characterized by the PLA taking the lead in the Cultural Revolution, conducting power seizures nationwide. This leads us to the character of the revolutionary committees. The majority of revolutionary committees created rapidly came to be dominated by the army due to the fact that the army had military force at its disposal to enforce its will. For example, in the leadership of the revolutionary committee in Shanghai, 7 out of the 13 members were army officers. 20 out of 29 provincial revolutionary committees were chaired PLA officers, and in several provinces PLA soldiers chaired up to 98% of revolutionary committees above the county level. More often than not, in the interests of stability and order, the army allied with cadres on the committees against the more radical organizations of the masses. At the end of September 1968, only revolutionary committees in Shaanxi and Hubei provinces were chaired by civilians. Furthermore, the majority of those that sat on the revolutionary committees as representatives of the people were those who had had a stake in the pre-Cultural Revolution order of things rather than radicals from the movement itself.

All this marked a decisive abandonment of mass-based methodology. The more the army took the lead, the more the Red Guards were suppressed and punished. On July 27th, 1968, the Red Guards’ authority over the PLA was officially ended with Mao’s full support. In December, Mao initiated the Down to the Countryside “Movement” wherein “young intellectuals” (namely Red Guards) were subjected to a type of labor reform. They were moved for the cities to the countryside, where they would cause less social disruption.

Then came the border clashes with the Soviet Union in March of the following year. By April 1st, the Chinese Communist Party had been reconstituted under Mao’s (now-revisionist) leadership. The main purpose for the party’s re-constitution was the establishment of a new foreign policy. Even before April 1st, Mao had already turned to the likes of Chen Yi and Deng Xiaoping for the development thereof. The Red Guards were disbanded formally by the summer. The party now effectively regained its direct hand over the army and thus effectively gained control of two elements of the triple alliances that formed the revolutionary committees: the cadres and the army. Thus these committees progressively became less and less revolutionary as the leading revolutionaries in the party were gradually purged. And the next two years did indeed see the purging of the main revolutionary leaders in the party, including the former Cultural Revolution Group leader Chen Boda and hitherto second-man-in-command Lin Biao.

Let’s discuss Lin Biao for a moment. Lin Biao had initially opposed reconstituting the party, though he did participate in it after the fact. What we see with him over the next two years or so from 1969 to 1971 is his increasing conviction that his original position on that was correct and that Mao himself was on the wrong road. For example, Lin opposed punishing the Red Guards with the Down to the Countryside draft and had maintained calls for a “Flying Leap” consolidation of socialism, i.e. the reinstatement of the large-scale communes. When he was purged and, in the summer of ‘71, saw Mao attempting to initiate rapprochement with the United States, small forces in the PLA supportive of him (out of the relative few that weren’t already revisionist and supportive of the rapprochement, that is) swung into action, laying out plans for and carrying out a series of coup attempts apparently aimed at killing Mao and closing down the CCP. Wrong methodology aside, the main point here is that Lin came fairly close to recognizing the situation for what it was and this was the core motivation behind the coup attempts. These efforts, if fully successful, would have likely, in the immediate term, restored the pre-December-1968 status quo plus the large-scale communes, which by that point would have been a qualitative improvement in the objective situation. Lin’s forces were among the few who had come to realize that Mao himself was now a revisionist and that’s the main thing I want to highlight about them. It was principally Lin Biao who had synthesized the concept of Maoism in the first place. Thus with the emergence of this divide between him and Mao himself, we come to see that two basic types of Maoism had clearly emerged: a left wing Maoism and a right wing Maoism. This is why I tentatively call myself a left wing Maoist: I want to at least partially identify with varying trends that were leading elements in the Cultural Revolution which Mao himself eventually moved to the right of.

The ensuing years consisted of clear moves supporting U.S. hegemony around the globe. I don’t think I even need to elaborate on this subject at great length, so I won’t, but to at least passingly mention a particularly egregious example that comes to mind, we can obviously see this motivation behind China’s support for the U.S.-sponsored military dictatorship of Pinochet in Chile from 1973. From the disbanding of the Red Guards, there was no remaining independent revolutionary, communist force in China that we know of. All the remaining leading revolutionary elements instead were in the state itself, and generally in more secondary positions therein after 1971. Their leading elements were concentrated in what is often referred to as a “gang”, eventually known as the “gang of four”, consisting mainly of former Cultural Revolution Group members. The main concern of this group after ‘71 was Zhou Enlai’s powerful influence on policy. He had always been more a skillful diplomat than a serious communist revolutionary (even as a member of the CRG) and now used his power as premier and in the Communist Party to re-enter China into the Cold War and to bring open revisionists like Deng Xiaoping back into the Politburo of the CP. To that end, Jiang Qing’s ridiculous campaign against Lin Biao in ‘73-74 was really directed at Zhou, as if to suggest that he and the (somewhat wrongly) disgraced Lin had something in common: apparently, they were both adherents of Confucianism. The bizarre nature of this campaign was, above all else, an expression of Jiang’s sentimental unwillingness to break politically with her husband, despite his obvious right wing turn. This quite apparent inconsistency weakened the impact of her message. When Zhou died in early 1976, Deng attempted to capitalize on sympathy for him to build a movement to unseat Mao, for which of course he was removed from power. But after Mao himself died later that same year, there was confusion as to who might fill the vacuum of leadership at that point. Without Mao there to influence her choice of actions, Jiang quickly turned to the building of people’s militias for the purpose of leading the masses in seizing power from the reactionary elements. This was more the correct approach to the situation than Lin’s had been. But by that time it was really too late. The revisionist elements in the party and in the state were overwhelmingly dominant and they quickly conducted a power seizure of their own wherein hundreds died and thousands were arrested, including all members of the “gang of four”. This marked the definitive end of socialism in China.

This by no means indicates that the Cultural Revolution (1966-1969) accomplished nothing. To name some of the specific accomplishments of the Cultural Revolution...

-Far from undermining the already-backward school system, as per the common Western myth, the Cultural Revolution instead greatly increased the access of the people thereto precisely by challenging the old authorities thereof and the elitist practices that remained therein. We see that, as a result, during the period immediately following the Cultural Revolution, enrollment in all levels of schooling greatly increased. In the case of secondary education, enrollment nearly quadrupled! And youth of any background for the first time in Chinese history were enabled to apply for a college education. (Previously, university admittance relied on Confucian practices, like being screened through a series of competitive entrance exams for entrance to a hierarchy of increasingly selective prep schools, to more or less minimize the number of entrants and maintain schooling as something reserved for ‘special people’ and as a way to “get ahead” of others.) By 1973, 90% of school-aged children were enrolled in school. Among many other things, the literacy rate greatly increased as a direct result.

-Health care was successfully brought to the countryside for the first time. The feat was accomplished by way of a nationwide “barefoot doctors” program introduced as part of the Cultural Revolution. This program systematically trained both peasant youth and urban youth in basic medical practices and knowledge (both traditional and Western) and sent them out to the countryside to set up medical facilities and provide preventative care and basic treatments for free or at a very low cost (on average, $1 or $2 a year) to the vast peasantry. Even the World Health Organization acknowledges that the barefoot doctors program was a “successful example of solving shortages of medical services in rural areas”. After the program was abolished in 1981, the population percentage covered by the medical system fell off dramatically: from 90% to less than 5% in just 3 years. No program of comparable effectiveness has yet replaced it.

-The level of artistic and cultural expression greatly improved. The Cultural Revolution Group, especially under Jiang Qing’s direction, introduced a broad range of model revolutionary works of art and often tours of the country were undertaken to show them as broadly as possible. Previous to this time, artistic expression in China was usually comparatively primitive and typically still revolved around feudal themes like tales of emperors and concubines. Now, with these advanced model works inspiring the masses, there was a veritable explosion of both involvement in the arts and of artistic creativity! The brilliant and beautiful model works were often world-class works of art by the standards of the time, combining traditional Chinese forms with Western instruments and techniques. And the themes conveyed therein put the masses, their lives, and their role in society and history front and center. All this inspired the people, including peasants and working class people, to take up art, including music, dance, poetry, painting, short stories, and even film, in much larger numbers. Cultural troupes and film units multiplied in the countryside. To suggest the impact of this in terms of the working masses getting into cultural life, when over the early ‘70s Beijing held 4 national fine arts exhibits (attracting a record audience of 7.8 million), 65% of the works therein were created by amateurs! This was an expression of the explosion of artistic interest and creativity that swept the country as a result of the changes of the Cultural Revolution!

-As still another way in which the oppressive division of labor was broken down during and as a result of the Cultural Revolution, “open-door research” in the natural sciences was introduced. As in the doors of laboratories were literally swung open to the involvement of workers, universities set up extensions of labs in factories and neighborhoods, and research institutes were spread to the countryside and involved peasants. As Raymond Lotta has noted vis-a-vis the latter, “Peasants, alongside specialists from the cities, carried out experiments in hybrid grains, conducted studies of insect-life cycles, and other aspects of science in agriculture. This helped the masses come to understand scientific questions and the scientific method; and helped scientists gain a better sense of conditions in society, including in the countryside.” Popular primers helped make scientific knowledge much more widely available and accessible.

-And yes, economic management did become more equitable. One-man management schemes were broken down into new “3-in-1 combinations” of workers, professional technicians, and Communist Party personnel to oversee the day-to-day management of workplaces. This meant that workers (a tiny few anyway) spent time doing managerial work and professional managers (a tiny few anyway) spent time on the floor actually doing productive work for a change. The “3-in-1 combinations” weren’t really that much of a change, but they did impact the way workplace decisions were made in a way that was more favorable to the views of actual workers.

Neither was the ‘casualty toll’ of the Cultural Revolution anywhere near as high as the commonly-circulated “estimates” we see courtesy of The Black Book of Communism. In one YouTube video that clearly gets its info from this source, we find it estimated, for example, that the Cultural Revolution killed 30 million people. Even the Chinese government, which arrests people for promoting the Cultural Revolution, estimates that a total of “34,274” people died as a result of the Cultural Revolution’s course. This is barely 0.1% of the total conveyed in the YouTube video as a fact! For a full-fledged revolution taking place on such a scale (China having been, of course, the world’s most populous nation), that’s a pretty damn small death toll, in fact! Let’s dare to compare this with the American Civil War, for example...

-In the American Civil War, 600,000 people out of 28 million died.
-In China’s Cultural Revolution, less than 35,000 out of 600 million died.

...just to put that in perspective and yeah to kinda say “look whose preaching”. Moreover, the 30 million statistic is literally impossible. That would imply that about 5% of the population was wiped out in the course of 3 years. Were anything remotely like that the case, it would have registered in the overall life expectancy of the population. Instead, in no small part as a result of the barefoot doctors program introduced as part of the Cultural Revolution, life expectancy in China rapidly increased throughout this period. Average Chinese life expectancy under Mao indeed roughly doubled from 32 years to 65 years. So yeah, seriously, we need to be capable of greater critical thinking than that which is promoted by The Black Book of Communism and we need to insist on greater critical thinking than that among the people. If anything, the Cultural Revolution was far too tame, not far too violent! No more than 3% of the CP cadre were even expelled in the course of the events in question. That’s hardly what you might call a draconian purge or a lapse into chaos. Claims to either effect are total bullshit and should not be accepted!

Yes, there were excesses during the Cultural Revolution, just as there are inevitably in any revolution. But my point is that, if you take a look at the positions of the pro-Mao parties out there in the world today, you’ll find that practically all of them (including the RCP) basically blame the Red Guards, Jiang Qing, and Lin Biao for the victory of the revisionists. Take another listen to that interview with Bob Avakian I highlighted earlier for a fairly typical example. When one looks to the various pro-Mao parties out there for an assessment of the Cultural Revolution, one finds that dogmatism and liberalism are (dogmatically!) assessed to have been the main problems. In truth, the main problem was revisionism, as the left wing Maoists consistently identified.

To begin wrapping this all up on the Cultural Revolution, let’s, while recognizing the real achievements of the Cultural Revolution and rejecting the lies and slanders about it, come back again to the contrast between the main objective and the outcome. Momentum toward the Cultural Revolution began building up in 1962 with the launching of the socialist education movement in protest of the downsizing of the large-scale agricultural communes. The principle purpose of the Cultural Revolution again hence had been the reversal of that verdict. The restructuring of the education system and other achievements of the Cultural Revolution were not originally viewed as ends in themselves, but as the means by which to reverse the verdict to which I’ve just spoken. Mao launched the Cultural Revolution with a radical new vision of socialism based on people’s communes in mind. He aimed get a commune-based system of socialism established nationwide, both in the rural and urban areas. But when the first revolutionary committees came along, Mao jettisoned this radical new vision for a much more conservative one based on those committees. The more this happened...the more the emphasis on the leading role of the army and of the party increased...the more divorced both the new vision of socialism itself and the methodology of its achievement became from the masses. The revolutionary committees quickly became just another variant of the old Soviet-style, party-state approach and they tended in the precise same direction: the restoration of capitalism. This shows them to have been fundamentally structurally flawed.

Commune-based socialism has surfaced time and again throughout modern history and usually more or less spontaneously: in France, in Hungary, in China, and elsewhere. This strikes me as more than coincidental. The whole point of Mao’s 1958 break with the Soviet party-state approach to socialism was to establish a much more mass-based kind. Mao had viewed the party-state type as too divorced from the masses; too elitist, really. The Great Leap Forward launched in that same year marked the birth of commune-based socialism as a Leninist system. More than anything else, this is what separated Maoism from all other schools of Marxism. Maoism was thus developed by Mao in this way and subsequently synthesized by a host of others on the left wing of the CCP (most importantly by Lin Biao though, and generally during and as part of the socialist education movement). In a basic way, it was then systemized and applied in the form of the upsurge of the Cultural Revolution before being increasingly jettisoned by Mao himself. In this sense, Maoism was a leading factor in China from 1958 to early 1967, after which point people other than Mao and of lesser prestige became its principle advocates. In describing myself as a left wing Maoist, I’m defining myself as one who upholds a modification of the commune-based system of socialism that originally defined Maoism rather than the party-state type of system that’s upheld by those who more or less uncritically uphold every historical twist and turn in Mao’s views. Left wing Maoism has continued to exist in varying forms since the time of Mao; it has never died out. This, however, represents the first comprehensive synthesis of it as such (to my knowledge anyway); as something distinct from the right wing forms of Maoism that have prevailed since early ‘67 and down to the present. Left wing Maoism most essentially means commune-based socialism with the communist vanguard party leading the way. That’s what I’m proposing.

I also think it easily noticed at this point that there was clearly a certain failure on Mao’s part to adequately identify who was the enemy and likewise to apply the corresponding solution. Mao recognized that the enemy continually appears in the party, even under socialism, but neglected to tolerate the organization of factions. My point on that is that factions are inevitable. We can recognize them or try to suppress them. But when we choose the mechanistic approach we lose out on both our ability to distinguish revisionists and on the sort of open debate that brings forward the truth of things more fully, which we absolutely need to develop a correct communist synthesis at any given point. There are also other basic structural flaws to traditional (i.e. Stalin-inspired) forms of democratic centralism that I think it would be more important to debate in a different context.

What we need in an overall sense today is a more advanced synthesis of left wing Maoism. But first we have to recognize the essential correctness of left wing Maoism. That’s my argument.

As a concluding note, again I think it no coincidence that the rebellious movements of the 1960s climaxed amidst China’s Cultural Revolution (again, 1966-1969) and then increasingly fell apart after that point. Although this global upheaval was inspired by a lot of things, the Cultural Revolution was definitely a major factor. It is likewise no coincidence that nothing like the tone of this time has been replicated on the same scale since then. The Cultural Revolution was the most advanced expression of revolutionary politics that has ever come forward in the history of the world. To advance in a renewed way toward the goal of world revolution and the establishment of communism worldwide, we must consult and deeply reassess the events in China from this particular time. That’s what I’ve attempted to do here. I hope you’ll help me continue this effort by providing your thoughts on all this.

Brother No. 1
29th August 2010, 01:24
the content: dogmatism.

Bob Avakin is dogmatic, we know this but with all his failings you're calling that upholding the Cultural Revolution as the "greatest movement towards Communism" it barks to me you havent read much of the Cultural Revolution has a whole. It had faults but it also did great things, with the peasantry and trying to fight the beuacracy which was there in the Chinese Communist Party. By which at Mao's death 2/3rds of the bueacracy was taken away from the Party but that was at his death in which ultra-leftism came in with his wife and the Gang of Four.



Hence those who argue that it's just automatically wrong or impossible for communists in the third world to forge a revolutionary united front with the patriotic (i.e. potentially insurgent) capitalists in their respective countries might just as well argue against uniting the whole of the proletariat here!

So, the same person that claims that the United Front Agaisnt Fascism is Reactionary and that the "Great Patriotic War" is also wrong since it only defended Capitalism and not Socialism is now telling us to unite the proletariat of the 3rd world with the bourgoeise? Take note that in China it was the national bourgoise that betrayed the 4 class experiment since the workers peasants petit-bourgoise and national bourgoise helped in the revolution the same can not be said for each 3rd world nation. Lets take for example Vietnam and Cambodia: in Cambodia the only bourgoise they truely allied themselves with was the Prince of Cambodia Shinaouk since he was a figure to the people to fight agaisnt the CIA backed Lon Nol militant Goverment. But what of Vietnam? Did they ally themselves with the Bourgoise of North Vietnam or when they became whole? No.




The social-imperialist USSR

In your previous threads you have not once ever answered my responses to your lack of knowlege of Imperialism and instead just using it as a buzz word agaisnt the USSR since it was...capitalist in 1935 which you still do not aruge for but just state vaugely.


...keep China economically subordinate to itself.

No, that was a path China chose itself for not only wanting to be independent of the USSR and the Warsaw pact but being opportunistic if the USSR wanted to re-kindle any friendly relation with China but China would be very aggressive or claim they will not accept it with Revisonists/Fascists/accept territory of Qing Dynasty.



the communists were united with these nationalist elements who, especially with increasing pressure resulting from the USSR's embargo, were exerting increasing sway over the government and the Communist Party as a whole. And they unfortunately won a broad array of concessions in the course of the early-to-mid '60s and were clearly aiming to achieve full-fledged rapprochement with the United States

Thats for, there is this thing called Opportunism. Learn it; this was their way to show the Soviet Union that they didnt need them and a same crisis which came in the late 40s when Yugoslavia began trading with the Allies and their Revisionism was coming (but still socialist economically) for the USSR this was a repeat of events all those years ago.


But for the rest of your article is basically how the Cultrual Revolution is soooo glorious and should have been pushed more, etc is basically bullshit I wont even discuss.

Kotze
29th August 2010, 01:47
It should be deeply grasped by people here that large chunks of the third world bourgeoisie are not even as affluent as and have less access to capital than many first world workers! Hence those who argue that it's just automatically wrong or impossible for communists in the third world to forge a revolutionary united front with the patriotic (i.e. potentially insurgent) capitalists in their respective countries might just as well argue against uniting the whole of the proletariat here! That statement is problematic. It's plausible that a Chinese person with an income as high as some worker in the west might have enough dough to become a capitalist in China. But what you say after that doesn't follow. If a worker with that income in the west can't become a capitalist in the west and going to China and becoming a capitalist there isn't really an option for her (because of the knowledge required regarding language, laws, customs, as well as not having any friends or family to help you there), her relation to a Chinese worker isn't a relation of class antagonism.


And I find it to hardly be coincidental that the great worldwide revolutionary upsurge of the late ‘60s just so happened to largely coincide with China’s Cultural Revolution. People all over the world looked to what was going on in China and lifted their heads! People everywhere were inspired by this massive upsurge in China! After all, their own governments were suppressing them in their attempts to challenge the old policies and norms. To this China stood in stark contrast. In China, unlike anywhere else in the world, leading people in the society supported popular rebellion against their own state! This signified to people throughout the world that China was a very different kind of society; the kind that the restless youth of that era would want to live in and could take heart from. We should never ever distance ourselves from the principle of the Cultural Revolution!I'm not 180° from that opinion, but your writing style is really inviting to these onomatopoetic comments that people like AK sometimes make. There are 27 exclamation marks in your post.


The Shanghai People’s Commune was loosely modeled on the Paris Commune, featuring the self-government of producers as the most defining element. However, it also featured a higher degree of specifically communist leadership (e.g. some general direction provided by Zhang) than had the Paris Commune. This contrasting feature is something that I think should be understood as decisive in terms of the model’s basic sustainability.Why is the text so long yet the description of the Shanghai Commune so short? Maybe you put some other bits about it somewhere else, but now that I have finished the text I'm old and my memory is fading. You claimed that your article would highlight "the need for a commune-based vision of socialism" — but it doesn't justify that, it merely asserts it.


Unfortunately however, more conservative leaders of the Cultural Revolution, including Mao himself, ceased to think so.
Lin Biao had initially opposed reconstituting the party, though he did participate in it after the fact. What we see with him over the next two years or so from 1969 to 1971 is his increasing conviction that his original position on that was correctWhen I wrote sentences like that in school I got the following comment: It's interesting that you know what other people think.


Take another listen to that interview with Bob Avakian I highlighted earlierNo, I won't.


Mao recognized that the enemy continually appears in the party, even under socialism, but neglected to tolerate the organization of factions. My point on that is that factions are inevitable. We can recognize them or try to suppress them. But when we choose the mechanistic approach we lose out on both our ability to distinguish revisionists and on the sort of open debate that brings forward the truth of things more fully, which we absolutely need to develop a correct communist synthesis at any given point. There are also other basic structural flaws to traditional (i.e. Stalin-inspired) forms of democratic centralism that I think it would be more important to debate in a different context. So you put your personal beef with Bob Avakian into a text about the history of Maoism in China, but you can't be arsed to put some basic advice how to fix "basic structural flaws" of democratic centralism into your >7600 word essay???

If you don't want power-hungry reactionaries over-represented at the top there are 3 ways of achieving it:


Mathematical filter (aka sortition).
Scientific filter (barring rich people and those with psychopathic brain structures in general).
Don't have a top (good luck with that).

RED DAVE
29th August 2010, 01:52
The Cultural Revolution was the most advanced expression of revolutionary politics that has ever come forward in the history of the world.What you are saying is that such an advanced expression took place in the absence of the working class as a the active and conscious agent of its of own destiny.

RED DAVE

Die Neue Zeit
29th August 2010, 06:13
Mathematical filter (aka sortition).
Scientific filter (barring rich people and those with psychopathic brain structures in general).
Don't have a top (good luck with that).
[/LIST]

That part about psychopathic brain structures is quite new for theorizing some sort of DOTP. There are other means of preventing elitism (like average workers' wages and recallability) that should be implemented simultaneously, of course, but I'd like to hear more from you on this new aspect.

Dimentio
29th August 2010, 06:19
If we barred people with psychopathic brain structures, then I'm sure that many communist revolutionaries would never have attained political roles at all :laugh:

Psychopaths in general make quite decent leaders. That is because they have the ability to handle pressure easily since they treat other people as pawns and not as individuals in their own right. That would mean it is harder to utilise emotional blackmail on them.

I don't mean to denigrate maoism, but Mao himself showed many psychopathic traits, especially regarding the treatment of his son and his daughter-in-law.

Blackscare
29th August 2010, 06:25
Wait so now the RCP is claiming that they originated the idea of socialism based on communes/communal organization?

Do you people have to re-label everything to make it look like you invented it?

I thought the "new" synthesis was the end of it.

Kotze
29th August 2010, 10:10
More about the psychopathic brain structure bit: Giving psychologists the ability to influence the selection of leaders has some caveats, because psychology is quite influenced by politics (it was used in the USSR to deal with some dissidents and recently in Germany there was a scandal where some very efficient tax fraud investigators were declared unfit for work because of mental illness, German article (http://www.aerztezeitung.de/praxis_wirtschaft/recht/article/557811/paranoid-querulatorisch-kerngesund-umstrittene-gutachten-beschaeftigen-gericht.html)) and if you give psychologists much wiggle room to interprete results, their own political sympathies will also take a significant role in judging candidates. So inasmuch as their role is not mereley testing the candidates and publishing their judgement to inform voters, but directly barring candidates from high office, this should be restricted to cases where there is also solid physical evidence.

The brain is not a black box, but a collection of black boxes. From case stories like Phineas Gage (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phineas_Gage) we do have some reliable knowledge what the different boxes do. With magnetic resonance imaging we can look at how big the different boxes are and how much energy they use (functional MRI), the important ones for spotting psychopathic people are the orbitofrontal cortex and the amygdala.

La Comédie Noire
29th August 2010, 12:44
I don't think you have to be psychopathic to be the head of a state, states are just extremely violent and hierarchical by nature. Whenever I'm reading a history book and someone starts trying to psychoanalyze a historical figure I just roll my eyes and trudge through it.

Monkey Riding Dragon
29th August 2010, 22:41
EVERYONE:

I can't help noticing that no one has yet bothered to seriously discuss the most essential point of this topic: the party-state approach to socialism vs. the commune-based approach (as per Mao specifically). Instead things have gone off on...rather bizarre...tangents about "psychopathic brain structure", etc. I have a sense of humor and everything, but while we're laughing and having a good time, I think we should also still try to discuss the main thread topic. I put no small amount of work into writing that and would like some actual input.


Kotze wrote:
If you don't want power-hungry reactionaries over-represented at the top there are 3 ways of achieving it:


Mathematical filter (aka sortition).
Scientific filter (barring rich people and those with psychopathic brain structures in general).
Don't have a top (good luck with that).



See this is what I'd call a mechanistic type of thinking. It assumes there is simply a sort of "bourgeoisie on/bourgeoisie off" switch that can be pressed to prevent counterrevolution. In reality, despite attempts to suppress bourgeois ideology and bourgeois elements within the vanguard party in the past, they have always broken through. That's because under socialism there are still remaining contradictions left over from the old society that you haven't yet overcome. These remaining contradictions have ideological and yes political expressions of their own. That's something we need to dig into more deeply at this point, I think.


Brother No. 1 wrote:
In your previous threads you have not once ever answered my responses to your lack of knowlege of Imperialism and instead just using it as a buzz word agaisnt the USSR since it was...capitalist in 1935 which you still do not aruge for but just state vaugely.

There are two reasons for this: 1) you've kinda been hounding me of late dude and I'm trying to subtly get you off my back without having to be mean about it :tt2:, and 2) as I've stated in our chats, frankly I don't think the types of analysis you make on the subject really merit a response because they don't really address the root issue. For example, you've defended a number of Soviet territorial annexations by contextualizing them. I've raised the point that contextualizing an annexation does not make it something else.


It had faults but it also did great things, with the peasantry and trying to fight the beuacracy which was there in the Chinese Communist Party.

I spent 7 paragraphs specifically defending the achievements of the Cultural Revolution and addressing the spirit of the anti-communist counterpoints that are often raised against it...so I say you either didn't finish reading the article above or are just trying to dream up an excuse to oppose my position.


Thats for, there is this thing called Opportunism. Learn it; this was their way to show the Soviet Union that they didnt need them and a same crisis which came in the late 40s when Yugoslavia began trading with the Allies and their Revisionism was coming (but still socialist economically) for the USSR this was a repeat of events all those years ago.

This is called slander. You very mistakenly act as if, on the Chinese side, there was only position and one possible trajectory: rapprochement with the United States. In reality, the Cultural Revolution itself was proof to the contrary. That Mao ultimately capitulated to the rightists and achieved initial rapprochement does not negate the fact that China was authentically independent of both Cold War superpowers for more than a decade. With Yugoslavia, by contrast, rapprochement with the West was immediate. In China, that tendency met with real resistance (again, as expressed in the upsurge of the Cultural Revolution).


No, that was a path China chose itself for not only wanting to be independent of the USSR and the Warsaw pact but being opportunistic if the USSR wanted to re-kindle any friendly relation with China but China would be very aggressive or claim they will not accept it with Revisonists/Fascists/accept territory of Qing Dynasty.


But for the rest of your article is basically how the Cultrual Revolution is soooo glorious and should have been pushed more, etc is basically bullshit I wont even discuss.


So, the same person that claims that the United Front Agaisnt Fascism is Reactionary and that the "Great Patriotic War" is also wrong since it only defended Capitalism and not Socialism is now telling us to unite the proletariat of the 3rd world with the bourgoeise? Take note that in China it was the national bourgoise that betrayed the 4 class experiment since the workers peasants petit-bourgoise and national bourgoise helped in the revolution the same can not be said for each 3rd world nation. Lets take for example Vietnam and Cambodia: in Cambodia the only bourgoise they truely allied themselves with was the Prince of Cambodia Shinaouk since he was a figure to the people to fight agaisnt the CIA backed Lon Nol militant Goverment. But what of Vietnam? Did they ally themselves with the Bourgoise of North Vietnam or when they became whole? No.

Personally dude, I don't know why you consider yourself a Maoist. In the above statements, you express opposition to the theory of social-imperialism, the Cultural Revolution, the Great Leap Forward, and the block of 4 classes that made for people's war in China. What's left of Maoism after that? (You who lament "opportunism" on the part of others!)

Anyhow, regarding your argument on the national bourgeoisie, there is a basic difference between the third world national bourgeoisie, who are oppressed, and the first world bourgeoisie, who are their oppressors. The difference is revolutionary potential.

RED DAVE
30th August 2010, 12:09
Anyhow, regarding your argument on the national bourgeoisie, there is a basic difference between the third world national bourgeoisie, who are oppressed, and the first world bourgeoisie, who are their oppressors. The difference is revolutionary potential.This is your error and the fundamental error of Maoism. The "revolutionary potential" of the national bourgeoisie is a bourgeois potential only. Any revolution in which the national bourgeoisie plays a critical role will be a state capitalist, not a proletarian, revolution. And it will degenerate into private capitalism.

RED DAVE

Saorsa
30th August 2010, 12:38
Your debating style sounds wooden and religious Dave. This is true! This is true! This is a fact, which makes this true!

A series of opinions which you dress up as facts, and which you don't provide any concrete evidence for other than more opinion.

As I've said many times - if the counter-revolution in China proves that Mao's revolutionary strategy was inherently flawed and bourgeois, the counter-revolution in Russia must prove that Lenin and Trotsky's contributions are equally bourgeois.

You're making a theological argument... not a communist analysis.

RED DAVE
30th August 2010, 15:04
Your debating style sounds wooden and religious Dave. This is true! This is true! This is a fact, which makes this true!

A series of opinions which you dress up as facts, and which you don't provide any concrete evidence for other than more opinion.

As I've said many times - if the counter-revolution in China proves that Mao's revolutionary strategy was inherently flawed and bourgeois, the counter-revolution in Russia must prove that Lenin and Trotsky's contributions are equally bourgeois.

You're making a theological argument... not a communist analysis.And what will you do if, according to my "theological argument, Nepal goes the same way?

My argument is far from theological, but it is, in this context, compressed.

The Russian Revolution failed due to, among other causes, (1) the economic backwardness of Russia; (2) the small size and political immaturity of the working class; (3) the insensitivity of the Bolsheviks to issues of working class democracy; (4) the invasion of Russia by armies from, I think, 13 different countries; (5) the civil war; (6) the failure of the expected revolution in the West.

The Maoist revolution in China failed because, from the very beginning, (1) failure of the Maoists to base their revolution on the working class; (2) bourgeois elements were incorporated into the party and the government; (3) a cult of personality that precluded genuine criticism and permitted capitalism to thrive under the guise of Marxist rhetoric, etc.

No workers control, no socialism. The bureacracy and the working class or the national bourgeoisie and the working class, can't rule together. One class has to rule. In the case of Russia, for the reasons listed above, the working class lost control of society. In China, Vietnam, Cuba, etc., the working class never had power. And the way the Maoists are headed in Nepal, if they gain state power, the working class won't have it there either.

RED DAVE

Queercommie Girl
30th August 2010, 15:29
If we barred people with psychopathic brain structures, then I'm sure that many communist revolutionaries would never have attained political roles at all :laugh:

Psychopaths in general make quite decent leaders. That is because they have the ability to handle pressure easily since they treat other people as pawns and not as individuals in their own right. That would mean it is harder to utilise emotional blackmail on them.

I don't mean to denigrate maoism, but Mao himself showed many psychopathic traits, especially regarding the treatment of his son and his daughter-in-law.

Many geniuses have had "psychological problems", and this is not just in the field of politics. I'm not joking here, I'm being serious. Examples include Issac Newton and Picasso.

Surely you realise that the whole definition of "psychological illnesses" under capitalism is somewhat problematic? Psychology is clearly not just biological in a reductionist sense, but determined also by socio-economic factors. What is considered to be a "psychological illness" in one kind of society isn't necessarily considered as such in another society. A lot of it is in the eyes of the beholder, in other words, somewhat relative.

An example: transgenderism today under capitalism is considered to be "gender dysphoria". But the "two spirits" among native American tribes during the primitive communist era were not.

Queercommie Girl
30th August 2010, 15:39
And what will you do if, according to my "theological argument, Nepal goes the same way?

My argument is far from theological, but it is, in this context, compressed.

The Russian Revolution failed due to, among other causes, (1) the economic backwardness of Russia; (2) the small size and political immaturity of the working class; (3) the insensitivity of the Bolsheviks to issues of working class democracy; (4) the invasion of Russia by armies from, I think, 13 different countries; (5) the civil war; (6) the failure of the expected revolution in the West.

The Maoist revolution in China failed because, from the very beginning, (1) failure of the Maoists to base their revolution on the working class; (2) bourgeois elements were incorporated into the party and the government; (3) a cult of personality that precluded genuine criticism and permitted capitalism to thrive under the guise of Marxist rhetoric, etc.

No workers control, no socialism. The bureacracy and the working class or the national bourgeoisie and the working class, can't rule together. One class has to rule. In the case of Russia, for the reasons listed above, the working class lost control of society. In China, Vietnam, Cuba, etc., the working class never had power. And the way the Maoists are headed in Nepal, if they gain state power, the working class won't have it there either.

RED DAVE

Frankly, it is rather dogmatic and Western-centric to just always assume that the "backward" workers of the east are simply not capable of pulling a successful revolution together without the active assistance of their superior "advanced" worker brothers from the West.

At least the October Revolution did succeed in Russia, a "semi-barbarian" nation, despite later degeneration. A successful socialist revolution never ever happened in Western Europe, despite greater potential for its success. Lenin' theory of "capitalism breaking at its weakest link" does apply.

To say that Maoists did not base themselves on workers isn't completely correct, you could argue that Maoism isn't sufficiently based on workers, but due to China's objective situations at the time it cannot be helped that the peasantry would play a primary role. The poor peasants and agricultural labourers in China's more densely populated regions were indeed objectively proletarians, despite being "less advanced".

Maybe you don't know this, but after the 1949 revolution, one of the most famous Chinese Trotskyists, who is still widely read by Trots in China today, Li Lisan, became the head of the All China Trade Union Federation. He was only removed from his post by Mao later on when he criticised Mao's policies.

Deformed, yes, but to say that the 1949 was not a proletarian revolution at all, as the state-capitalist third-campist Trots claim, is clearly mistaken. Explain how a Trotskyist trade unionist like Li Lisan could acquire such a high position after the 1949 revolution if the revolution did not have any kind of working class base.

In fact, prior to 1949, the CCP had quite a number of working class members in major industrialised cities like Shanghai, who played an important role in sabotaging KMT rule in these areas.

Regarding the national bourgeois, you should realise that objectively much of the so-called "national bourgeois" in colonial and semi-colonial nations are no more than "small businesses" in the Western sense. Unless you believe in the forced collectivisation approach of Stalin, which as far as I know most Trotskyists oppose for being anti-democratic, small businesses should not be forcefully nationalised, nor should there be forced collectivisation in the countryside as happened under Stalin.

RED DAVE
30th August 2010, 16:02
Frankly, it is rather dogmatic and Western-centric to just always assume that the "backward" workers of the east are simply not capable of pulling a successful revolution together without the active assistance of their superior "advanced" worker brothers from the West.No one ever said that. What I am saying is that for these revolutions to be sustained, they will require the material and even military assistance of the West.


At least the October Revolution did succeed in Russia, a "semi-barbarian" nation, despite later degeneration.Exactly. And according to the theory of "combined and uneven development," this is was likely and likely to repeat itself, which it did.


A successful socialist revolution never ever happened in Western Europe, despite greater potential for its success. Lenin' theory of "capitalism breaking at its weakest link" does apply.It certainly does. However, to continue the metaphor, that break can be repaired unless the revolutions in the "weakest" countries, receive material aid. Does anyone thing that Nepal will be able to sustain itself as a socialist country by itself?


To say that Maoists did not base themselves on workers isn't completely correct, you could argue that Maoism isn't sufficiently based on workers, but due to China's objective situations at the time it cannot be helped that the peasantry would play a primary role.No, it cannot be helped, any more than it could have been helped in Russia. The difference is that in the Russian Revolution, the Bolsheviks held up the working class to be the leading class of the revolution. which the Maoists, rhetoric aside, never did.


The poor peasants and agricultural labourers in China's more densely populated regions were indeed objectively proletarians, despite being "less advanced".Agricultural laborers yes; peasants no. Peasants are a separate class from proletarians, no matter how poor. You should know this. Their relationship to the means of production is different from that of workers.


Maybe you don't know this, but after the 1949 revolution, one of the most famous Chinese Trotskyists, who is still widely read by Trots in China today, Li Lisan, became the head of the All China Trade Union Federation. He was only removed from his post by Mao later on when he criticised Mao's policies.It was pointed out above that the Chinese were easier on the Trotskyists than the Stalinists. Tsk-tsk, he criticized Mao.

More later.

RED DAVE

Queercommie Girl
30th August 2010, 16:19
It certainly does. However, to continue the metaphor, that break can be repaired unless the revolutions in the "weakest" countries, receive material aid. Does anyone thing that Nepal will be able to sustain itself as a socialist country by itself?


Well, in a pragmatic sense, it may have to attempt to do such a thing if socialist revolutions do not succeed elsewhere.



No, it cannot be helped, any more than it could have been helped in Russia. The difference is that in the Russian Revolution, the Bolsheviks held up the working class to be the leading class of the revolution. which the Maoists, rhetoric aside, never did.
You are making a mistake in identifying the Chinese Communist Party solely with Mao Zedong. In fact, many of the theoretical contributions made by the CCP to the cause of Marxism wasn't even created by Mao. It was a collective effort. Consequently defending the CCP is not equivalent to defending Mao Zedong.

The CCP officially labels the working class as the leading class and the peasant class as the semi-leading class. But the revolutionary conditions in China 1949 were different from those in Russia 1917. In Russia the revolution began from a large industrialised city, but in China the revolution began from a backward agricultural rural area. Had the Chinese revolution began in Shanghai in the 1940s it would have been almost identical to the Russian case.



Agricultural laborers yes; peasants no. Peasants are a separate class from proletarians, no matter how poor. You should know this. Their relationship to the means of production is different from that of workers.
Theoretical abstractions aside, on the ground in a semi-colonial country like pre-1949 China the practical differences between the poorest layers of the peasantry and agricultural labourers are indeed very slim.

And as I said, I don't agree with the forced de-kulakisation approach of Stalin, which caused millions of deaths. Small businesses should not be forcefully collectivised or nationalised. This is why in the political programme of the MCPC today, it is stated that people's communes will only be set up in the countryside if the people themselves agree to it, not imposed from above.



It was pointed out above that the Chinese were easier on the Trotskyists than the Stalinists. Tsk-tsk, he criticized Mao.

More later.
I'm defending the essential proletarian nature of the Chinese 1949 Revolution, not necessarily Mao Zedong personally. The 1949 Revolution was not Mao's "personal revolution".

I don't agree with Mao's decision for removing Li Lisan from his position as the head of the All China Trade Union Federation. As I said if Maoism is to be partially accepted by Trotskyists again Maoists must acknowledge Mao's mistakes in the past in dealing with the Trotskyists. But the fact of the matter is that if a Trotskyist trade unionist can acquire such a high position in the Chinese government after the 1949 revolution, this revolution surely must have had some working class basis. It's just common sense. And Li Lisan clearly was a genuine communist in the Trotskyist sense, as every Chinese Trotskyist today would tell you.

How can a revolution that is completely non-proletarian in character put a genuine Trotskyist trade unionist leader onto the position of the head of the All China Trade Union Federation?

RED DAVE
30th August 2010, 17:01
Just a quicky.


How can a revolution that is completely non-proletarian in character put a genuine Trotskyist trade unionist leader onto the position of the head of the All China Trade Union Federation?First of all, he was removed relatively quickly. Second of all, why not? There were genuine proletarian elements in the CCP, but they were eclipsed by the bureaucratic, petit-bourgeois and bourgeois elements. No one ever claims that the Chinese Revolution was a monolith. The key point is that a so-called Marxist party permitted peasant, petit-bourgeois and party-bureaucratic elements to dominate the revolution.

When the Chinese working class rose in revolution as the CCP was triumphing of the Kuomintang (sorry for the old spelling :D), that was the time for the CCP, Maoists, what-have-you, to call on the workers to seize the means of production and take control of society. As has been documented here again and again, the CCP did not do this. They told the workers to go back to work and submit to their managers and to the incoming forces from the countryside.

That was the end of any possibility of a workers state in China. The fact that Li Lisan was put in charge of the unions means very little, except that the non-working-class elements had not completely consolidated themselves.

RED DAVE

Queercommie Girl
30th August 2010, 18:18
Just a quicky.

First of all, he was removed relatively quickly. Second of all, why not? There were genuine proletarian elements in the CCP, but they were eclipsed by the bureaucratic, petit-bourgeois and bourgeois elements. No one ever claims that the Chinese Revolution was a monolith. The key point is that a so-called Marxist party permitted peasant, petit-bourgeois and party-bureaucratic elements to dominate the revolution.

When the Chinese working class rose in revolution as the CCP was triumphing of the Kuomintang (sorry for the old spelling :D), that was the time for the CCP, Maoists, what-have-you, to call on the workers to seize the means of production and take control of society. As has been documented here again and again, the CCP did not do this. They told the workers to go back to work and submit to their managers and to the incoming forces from the countryside.

That was the end of any possibility of a workers state in China. The fact that Li Lisan was put in charge of the unions means very little, except that the non-working-class elements had not completely consolidated themselves.

RED DAVE

That's a rather simplistic evaluation of 1949. Sure, it was distorted in some ways. But it's not like there was a massive coherent workers' uprising in 1949 in all of China's industrial centres. China in 1949 was not like China in 1925-27 when a coherent organised worker's uprising did take place but was defeated. There were just sporadic worker's strikes and demonstrations etc at the time without a high level of organisation or political consciousness. After all, socialist organisations were completely illegal under the KMT, and the defeat of the Chinese Revolution in 1927 basically destroyed the political base in virtually all of China's major industrial areas. As an organised Leninist party the CCP did not really trust sporadic political movements, which is why they were controlled.

But to say that essentially the workers just "carried on as before" in their factories after 1949 is clearly wrong. Despite the lack of direct full control, there was indeed a massive qualitative improvement in the conditions of most workers after the 1949 revolution. Worker's supervisory committees were set up in many factories to keep a check on the capitalists' power. And the "commanding heights" of the economy were indeed nationalised.

Subjectively the CCP prior to October 1949 did explicitly state that after moving into the cities the party must rely more the the power of the working class rather than the peasantry. The fact that the CCP did not depend on the sporadic workers' uprisings instead of their own peasant army was a strategic choice, not a choice of principle. In real politics it is not enough to only care about principles, but also about actual strategy on the ground.

A worker's uprising does not necessarily mean that it is Marxist in character. Indeed, after the Chinese revolution of 1927 was completely defeated by the KMT, among much of the Chinese industrial working class, Marxist influence was very slight. I think it stands to reason that a Marxist party would put more trust in an explicitly Marxist force rather than sporadic minor forces that are not really Marxist in character but ideologically confused. As Lenin said, just because a political party consists of mostly workers, does not automatically make it into a genuine Marxist party, there is also the question of political consciousness. The reverse is also true. A worker's uprising isn't automatically progressive, otherwise why did Trotsky do what he did during the Krontstadt rebellion?

Queercommie Girl
30th August 2010, 18:28
You haven't said anything about my point on the peasantry and collectivisation. While it is true that a socialist party should not be predominantly peasant-based in the ideal situation, what do you think the CCP should have done about China's peasants which made up more than 90% of the situation? Forced de-kulakisation and collectivisation? Simply due to their numerical superiority peasant influences are bound to show through.

Lolshevik
31st August 2010, 16:23
Well, I would point out that the Bolsheviks did not have any scheme of creating a party-state in their original makeup but that would be just so much wasted text so I'll move on...

I fundamentally agree that communes ought to be the basis of socialism and that the vanguard party must not have its apparatus merged with that of the workers' state. But do you actually oppose democratic centralism, though? What the hell is a "solid core with a lot of elasticity"?

By the way, I agree that factions inside the vanguard party are un-preventable. IMO allowing tendencies to organize as groups actually LESSENS the chance of a split & breaking party unity, because different ideas can organize around programs and struggle in the arena of democratic debate instead of around their spokespersons' personalities.

Monkey Riding Dragon
1st September 2010, 00:00
Lolshevik:

Congratulations on making the first relevant post on this topic!!

On democratic centralism: I think it necessary to do away with the command structures in the party that suppress internal debate and to, like I said, tolerate factions. This would represent a break with the traditional concept of DC, such as it's been understood since the days of Stalin anyway. Really, it's a return to Lenin's 1905 conception of correct structure more than anything else. "Solid core with a lot of elasticity" to me is simply a way of formulating that. Bob Avakian describes it as meaning "going to the edge of being drawn and quartered" without actually being overthrown. i.e. Being that democratic in terms of internal party structure. If you don't have a great degree of democracy and openness within the leading party, that's going to play out in the broader society that it leads inevitably, I think.

I think there's a leading role in the socialist state for the vanguard party to play as well, but that it must be a much lesser role than has been traditionally seen. For example, I'm presently of the view that all offices should be elected in a contested way, though certain offices should only be contested by opposing vanguard party (or united front) members. Essentially though, the point is that the state should be governed by the masses under the leadership of the party, rather than by the party 'in the interests of the masses' based on the inherently erroneous conclusion that the party and the masses are synonymous. So that's really my underlying point.


RED DAVE wrote:
And what will you do if, according to my "theological argument, Nepal goes the same way?

"If" nothing. The UCPN(M) is clearly lost and must be jettisoned by the remaining sincere comrades therein. Your persistent failure to recognize these facts, even amid your indefinite rain of critique thereof, is not to your credit. What Prachanda is pursuing is not a revolutionary "tactic", correct or incorrect, but a fundamental and permanent realignment of the UCPN(M) with the enemy. Your aim is manifestly to capitalize on that fact rather than to draw historic lessons from the experience.