School Uniforms?

[Bright Banana Beard]

....

[ContrarianLemming]

anarchist circle jerk right there

[Agnapostate]

Couldn't a poll have just been added to the other thread?

[A.J.]

Yes.

It creates an espirit de corp, a collectivist outlook and feeling of solidarity.

[Pavlov's House Party]

Yes.

It creates an espirit de corp, a collectivist outlook and feeling of solidarity.

bahahaha

i remember in high school there was another school right next to us (for stupid language law reasons), and their administration decided to make their students wear uniforms because they were always stealing from nearby shops and shit. the idea was that if someone saw a kid stealing or smoking up they would just tell the school and they'd rat the kid out.

[Fawkes]

I remember having a pretty heated debate about this a few years ago. Definitely no, uniforms serve to stifle creativity, unprepare (word?) students for the "real world" in which not everyone wears uniforms, and it, in spite of what many think, does not serve to disguise class differences amongst students who can't afford expensive clothes.

Edit: And this is coming from someone who went to an elementary school where uniforms were strictly enforced.

[Bad Grrrl Agro]

Pssssh, no. As a matter of fact, I wish I looked as whorish back then as I do these days.

[leftace53]

Pssssh, no. As a matter of fact, I wish I looked as whorish back then as I do these days.
This. I need "slut" clothes so I can slut up.

[Os Cangaceiros]

It creates an espirit de corp, a collectivist outlook and feeling of solidarity.

I'm guessing that you didn't have much contact with kids who wore uniforms during your youth?

[Fawkes]

Pssssh, no. As a matter of fact, I wish I looked as whorish back then as I do these days.

truetruetrue, I the same

[Bad Grrrl Agro]

This. I need "slut" clothes so I can slut up.
I'm very whorish, with style.

[Widerstand]

Yes.

It creates an espirit de corp, a collectivist outlook and feeling of solidarity.

Fool, forced unity is no better than open oppression.

[Bad Grrrl Agro]

Fool, forced unity is no better than open oppression.
I love you for saying that!

[NecroCommie]

If you oppose school uniforms you are wrong.

[Shokaract]

One problem I have with the "creativity" argument is that it supports the practice of using clothing, and material possessions in general, to define yourself. While I understand the desire to wear something that you feel looks good on you, or at least doesn't make you look stupid, it seems that the most common argument against school uniforms is one that also (indirectly) promotes consumerism.

Still, I'd rather have students just wear what's comfortable and practical.

One thing though is that having a mandatory school uniform did help my father from embarrassment over being extremely poor growing up (as in having few clothes, all tattered and occasionally lice-infested, and living in a one-room dirt house with no running water).

[Bad Grrrl Agro]

One problem I have with the "creativity" argument is that it supports the practice of using clothing, and material possessions in general, to define yourself. While I understand the desire to wear something that you feel looks good on you, or at least doesn't make you look stupid, it seems that the most common argument against school uniforms is one that also (indirectly) promotes consumerism.
The argument is not based on defining one's self but expressing one's self. The anti-material claim sounds like it comes from someone who has never experienced the magic of glamor and vanity.


Still, I'd rather have students just wear what's comfortable and practical.
Well, duh! And I like dressing as skanky as I want.


One thing though is that having a mandatory school uniform did help my father from embarrassment over being extremely poor growing up (as in having few clothes, all tattered and occasionally lice-infested, and living in a one-room dirt house with no running water).
True. I adapted to financial troubles and know how to sew really well just incase I can't afford clothes. Of course, where I live, my homegurls and I often share clothing items, make up, etc.

[Fawkes]

One problem I have with the "creativity" argument is that it supports the practice of using clothing, and material possessions in general, to define yourself. While I understand the desire to wear something that you feel looks good on you, or at least doesn't make you look stupid, it seems that the most common argument against school uniforms is one that also (indirectly) promotes consumerism.


There's a discontinuity in that argument. Material possession =/= consumerism. Do I define myself from my clothing? No. But do I express myself through it and view it as an integral part of my being? Yes.

[Apoi_Viitor]

There's a discontinuity in that argument. Material possession =/= consumerism. Do I define myself from my clothing? No. But do I express myself through it and view it as an integral part of my being? Yes.

Maybe, although I find it hard do believe, that you can express yourself through a uniform/mass produced piece of clothing. But I guess I'm not taking into consideration "thrift", independently made clothing, etc.

I feel that while people like me reject the notion of buying expensive, impractical clothing to express your individuality, school uniforms isn't the answer. I think we should be concerned with eliminating a culture based on aesthetics and fashionable consumption - and making sure people have access to whatever clothes they feel most comfortable in.

[Fawkes]

Maybe, although I find it hard do believe, that you can express yourself through a uniform/mass produced piece of clothing. But I guess I'm not taking into consideration "thrift", independently made clothing, etc.

I feel that while people like me reject the notion of buying expensive, impractical clothing to express your individuality, school uniforms isn't the answer. I think we should be concerned with eliminating a culture based on aesthetics and fashionable consumption - and making sure people have access to whatever clothes they feel most comfortable in.

Firstly, you can make your own clothes, it doesn't have to be mass-produced. Also, it's what articles of clothing you mix together, how you go about wearing them, what you "accessorize" with, hair and makeup and all that shit also. It doesn't have to expensive by any means either, and as far as impractical, who cares, really? The mesh bondage shirt I wear is no less practical than the fact that your shoes may be red when the fabric was originally white. And yes, I agree with you that people should most certainly have access to the clothes that they feel most comfortable in wearing.

[Bad Grrrl Agro]

I feel that while people like me reject the notion of buying expensive, impractical clothing to express your individuality, school uniforms isn't the answer. I think we should be concerned with eliminating a culture based on aesthetics and fashionable consumption - and making sure people have access to whatever clothes they feel most comfortable in.
You are one funny poster:rolleyes:
The idea of removing vanity (and the culture based off aesthetics) from society would make my life too boring to go on living.

[Aloysius]

The idea of removing vanity (and the culture based off aesthetics) from society would make my life too boring to go on living.
And thus remove a "Pretty. Cute. Radical."

Anyway, I've dealt with uniforms for years. A lot of times, the "administration" (read: totalitarian ass-munchers) bases their decision on gangs and shit like that. They claim red is a gang color, and apparently, so is pink, purple, green, brown (our pants and belts can be brown, buts that's it).
The high school dress code isn't as restrictive as the middle school one, though. But they add one color.

[Bad Grrrl Agro]

And thus remove a "Pretty. Cute. Radical."
Something like that.

[Taikand]

Call me a Stalinist, but I like uniforms.

[Invincible Summer]

Having come from a school that utilized school uniforms (so glad that I left), and knowing many people who pretty much went through their entire primary - secondary years in a uniform, I've seen firsthand how these idealistic ideas of how uniforms "work", don't.

[Aloysius]

Call me a Stalinist, but I like uniforms.
Stalinist.

[Invader Zim]

I recall a day when my school had a no uniform day, and one land got some serious abuse by a bunch of assholes regarding his attire.

[Bad Grrrl Agro]

Call me a Stalinist, but I like uniforms.
No, I think I'll just call you kinky.

[Nuvem]

I like uniforms in the military and in political activism groups (looks better than marching around waving around picket signs in T-shirts and jeans like jackass college kids), but I have no interests in enforcing uniforms in schools. I think that enforcing uniforms in schools is just an unnecessary and arbitrary authoritarian enforcement of power. Let the damn kids wear what pleases them so long as it isn't ridiculously out of bounds. I don't think there's any serious problem to be had so long as school dress codes are enforced, anything beyond that can be left for parents to judge.

When I want to be taken seriously, I'll wear something appropriate for the occasion. But when I'm doing some simple day to day task like going to school, I want to be able to dress casually, however I please. In other words, I want to be able to wear my T-shirt, shorts and knee-high leather boots to school. If I do, who is harmed? The idea that it distracts other students from their work is absurd. People usually get over my looks pretty quickly, certainly not dwelling on them long enough to affect their grades. Gang activity? Poverty and social alienation are the causes of gang activity and it can take place with or without uniforms. Solidarity? I don't dislike someone and want to sock them in the face because they dress differently, I feel that way because our personalities clash or we have irreconcilably different opinions, or I simply disregard someone because I find them uninteresting. Clothing has very little or nothing to do with it. All that remains is for this to be an arbitrary exercise of power.

[Rusty Shackleford]

i honestly dont care.

[Taikand]

School Uniforms get me rid of the pain that is choosing my outfit.
One problem less, why don't you like them?

[leftace53]

why don't you like them?
I know how to dress myself :glare:

[RedStarOverChina]

I went to a private school, and I intensely disliked it because I hated wearing a tie and hard, leather shoes.

But I don't consider it a huge issue. So what if you're made to wear the same cloth? That's not the issue. For me, it's always been comfort.

Contrary to what some may think, your clothing is not a real expression of your individuality.

[NoOneIsIllegal]

Can't believe the 11 Leninists who voted yes. I'm Surprised no one mentioned the "extremely poor person" argument though.

I said no, because I'm not a dick.

[Rjevan]

In school this was pretty much topic No. 1 when it came to write a composition (we had no school uniforms). The main arguments always were "Expressing your individuality" vs. "Preventing discrimination". Good old times! :lol:

Generally I was/am not too crazy about the idea of turning up in a lame uniform to increase the spirit of being one happy school family or nonsense like that. But since I know about several cases at our school where kids were bullied by their classmates because they weren't blessed with wealthy parents and therefore couldn't afford to turn up in designer clothes I tend to support the idea of introducing school uniforms.

[Fawkes]

Contrary to what some may think, your clothing is not a real expression of your individuality.

Sorry, I forgot that your opinion is fact, idiot.

Does that mean hairstyle isn't either? What about make up?

[RedStarOverChina]

Sorry, I forgot that your opinion is fact, idiot.Excuse me for mistakenly believing that one's individuality is not what you can afford to wear, smartass.

You can wear ten different shirts everyday, but that doesn't change or hide the fact you're a vain douchebag with nothing better to do. By the way, your shirts are probably mass-produced in Asia by people other than you anyhow. If THAT somehow adds to your sense of individuality, then I can only assume you're a very dreary person to start with.


I suppose everyone could have a different definition of "individuality"...But for me, it is definitely NOT about wearing fancy jean sold to you by corporations. It is one of many fake forms of "individualism" marketed to you by capitalists: "Wear my products and you will be an individual!"

Yeah, forget about your dreams, ideas, abilities and accomplishments. You are what you wear!
:rolleyes:

[RedStarOverChina]

Can't believe the 11 Leninists who voted yes. I'm Surprised no one mentioned the "extremely poor person" argument though.

I said no, because I'm not a dick.I voted yes, because I really don't care.

The idea that what you wear controls how you think is ludicrous to me. I became a communist in a private school wearing shiny, uncomfortable leather shoes.

[leftace53]

Well I for one don't think clothes are particularly individualistic unless you make that shit yourself. Its the same logic as why capitalistic freedom isn't actually freedom - you're forced to just choose between a few corporations, thats hardly freedom of choice because you can't not choose.

I do think that clothes are for aesthetic purposes. You don't have to wear expensive clothes to look good (hell my closet consists of $3 shirts), but done right, clothes can be an art form. Comfort is obviously part of an attire, but lets face it, unless I'm doing a home reno or something, I'm probably not going to be wearing around my disgusting rubber boots, or hideous paint stained jeans. And frankly, school uniforms are usually neither aesthetically pleasing nor comfortable.

[Fawkes]

Excuse me for mistakenly believing that one's individuality is not what you can afford to wear, smartass.
Or afford to play music on, or afford to paint with, or afford to read about, or afford to write about. Maybe you should actually read one of my previous posts:

Firstly, you can make your own clothes, it doesn't have to be mass-produced. Also, it's what articles of clothing you mix together, how you go about wearing them, what you "accessorize" with, hair and makeup and all that shit also. It doesn't have to expensive by any means either, and as far as impractical, who cares, really? The mesh bondage shirt I wear is no less practical than the fact that your shoes may be red when the fabric was originally white. And yes, I agree with you that people should most certainly have access to the clothes that they feel most comfortable in wearing.




You can wear ten different shirts everyday, but that doesn't change or hide the fact you're a vain douchebag with nothing better to do. By the way, your shirts are probably mass-produced in Asia by people other than you anyhow. If THAT somehow adds to your sense of individuality, then I can only assume you're a very dreary person to start with.
I generally only wear one shirt per day. And by the way, a good amount of the clothes that I wear were either made or heavily modified by me, you assuming prick typing from your "Made in (insert Asian country here)" computer.



I suppose everyone could have a different definition of "individuality"...But for me, it is definitely NOT about wearing fancy jean sold to you by corporations. It is one of many fake forms of "individualism" marketed to you by capitalists: "Wear my products and you will be an individual!"
Yeah, I know, those people are generally pretty lame.


Yeah, forget about your dreams, ideas, abilities and accomplishments. You are what you wear!
:rolleyes:
Oh yes, cause I've been championing that idea all along. Your own personal fashion is merely a part of your individual self-expression. And also, a lot of my ideas and abilities manifest themselves in the clothes that I make and wear, so I don't really know where the fuck you're going with that one.

[Fawkes]

I became a communist in a private school wearing shiny, uncomfortable leather shoes.

Yeah, same with me. And maybe you're more docile than I am, but having some stupid prick tell me what I can and can't wear did have an effect on the person I've become.

[RedStarOverChina]

I generally only wear one shirt per day. And by the way, a good amount of the clothes that I wear were either made or heavily modified by me, you assuming prick typing from your "Made in (insert Asian country here)" computer.I never claimed that the mere act of typing from my much-hated HP computer was an expression of my individuality.

[Fawkes]

I never claimed that the mere act of typing from my much-hated HP computer was an expression of my individuality.

Nor did I ever claim that it was an expression of mine to "wear fancy jeans sold to me by corporations".

And what the fuck does wearing clothes made in Asia have anything to do with this anyway? I guess that the painter who doesn't grind up berries to make their own paint and the trombone player who doesn't own his own fucking brass factory are very "dreary" people.

Nice try though.

[Animal Farm Pig]

When I first saw this question, my initial reaction was "Yes, school uniforms are good." I take a pretty dim view of "expressing one's own creativity and individuality" through clothing choices.

Then, I thought about it more, and I'm changing my answer to "No." I was thinking about the time the two crappy jobs I had that required me to wear a uniform. Mandating a uniform isn't about leveling class differences or anything so beneficial.

It's about authority and control.

Think about it, what does it matter what you wear to school? As long as your naughty bits are covered and the clothing doesn't have some kind of crazy offensive message on it, any reasonable clothing will do for school. Why should anyone give a shit what clothing kids wear to school? It's bizarre. And, that's the point. The school authorities demand that children do something stupid and inane ("Everybody wear the same clothing!"), and they get away with it because they're in charge and have the authority to punish the children if the kids don't comply. It's like the military goose step (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goose-step)-- the act is pointless in itself, but it symbolizes subservience.

I would also like to point towards the dehumanizing nature of uniforms. When someone is wearing his or her own clothing, we treat that person as an individual. When someone is in uniform, he or she has stepped out of individuality and into a social role. How often do you consider the gas station attendant in uniform as a unique individual? I would guess the answer is "rarely." You consider him to be a mere functionary-- a cog in machine.

We should want more for children. We shouldn't force them to wear uniforms.

[leftace53]

There is too much text in this thread for chit chat.

[fa2991]

Then, I thought about it more, and I'm changing my answer to "No." I was thinking about the time the two crappy jobs I had that required me to wear a uniform. Mandating a uniform isn't about leveling class differences or anything so beneficial.

It's about authority and control.

Did you and your co-workers constantly bully poor people and outcasts and generally act like children? If not, then this is a false analogy, as that's how schoolchildren act, and it's such activities that uniforms are supposed to curb. You don't need to "level class differences" so much among co-workers as you do among children because co-workers are less likely to victimize each other for no reason.

[Animal Farm Pig]

Did you and your co-workers constantly bully poor people and outcasts and generally act like children? If not, then this is a false analogy, as that's how schoolchildren act, and it's such activities that uniforms are supposed to curb. You don't need to "level class differences" so much among co-workers as you do among children because co-workers are less likely to victimize each other for no reason.

The two jobs that I was thinking of were doing IT support and being in the Army. We didn't do that kind of shit in IT support, but constant bullying and generally acting like children is a pretty good description of the entry-level soldiers I met.

Given the similarity in age and general stupidity of the environment, Army training is probably a closer approximation to a school than some other kind of work. So, yeah, despite always being dressed exactly the same, there can still be plenty of douche-baggery.

[fa2991]

Oh, well, the army is a different story. :lol: That's basically a boarding school with guns.

[Taikand]

I'm not sure about your uniforms but mine is great.The only thing I hate are the shoes, that's why I wear sneakers.

[A.J.]

I'm guessing that you didn't have much contact with kids who wore uniforms during your youth?

Indeed, as I went to a school that didn't wear uniforms(most of the time) and having witnessed first-hand kids from socially deprived backgounds get mocked and ridiculed for not wearing certain brands of over-priced mass-produced sportswear, I developed a favourable opinion of the need for uniforms.


This thread just illustrates, however, the petty, childish mentality of anarchists that they would rather poor kids get bullied and stigmatised than have their precious "individuality" suppressed.

[Widerstand]

This thread just illustrates, however, the petty, childish mentality of anarchists that they would rather poor kids get bullied and stigmatised than have their precious "individuality" suppressed.

Anarchist uniforms:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c0/Black_Bloc_Hamburg.jpg

[A.J.]

Anarchist uniforms:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c0/Black_Bloc_Hamburg.jpg

^ that may be a uniform but I don't think it's a school uniform.

[Widerstand]

I looked like that in school ;_; and so did my anarchist mate :D I don't see why EVERYONE can't just wear it. You gotta be a really rare breed for black to look bad on you.

[A.J.]

I looked like that in school ;_; and so did my anarchist mate :D I don't see why EVERYONE can't just wear it. You gotta be a really rare breed for black to look bad on you.

I'll take your word for it.....

http://www.leaguestgeorge.com/images/mosley05.jpg

:laugh:

[Widerstand]

I'll take your word for it.....

http://www.leaguestgeorge.com/images/mosley05.jpg

:laugh:

Imagine them in bright hippyclothes. Instant throw-up.

[The Douche]

This thread just illustrates, however, the petty, childish mentality of anarchists that they would rather poor kids get bullied and stigmatised than have their precious "individuality" suppressed

I think the reality is that a lot of anarchist posters on here were probably punk types in school, and so resent the idea of having to look just like everybody else, and they were probably incessantly picked on for their clothes and don't think its a big deal. I still get shit for the way I dress and I feel like I have a relatively common style.

Kids pick on each other, always will.

[Bright Banana Beard]

Anti-consumerism is a phony leftist ideas either way. The Student council can decide what uniform to wear. I especially like gakuran, it looks nice on everyone.

[Fawkes]

This thread just illustrates, however, the petty, childish mentality of anarchists that they would rather poor kids get bullied and stigmatised than have their precious "individuality" suppressed.

If we're gonna throw ideological generalizations around then I would say it's more evidence of the respect that anarchists tend to pay toward the individual, while still viewing class struggle as just that, a class movement, and their ability to appeal to younger people which other socialist tendencies largely fail at doing in comparison.

[Bad Grrrl Agro]

Anti-consumerism is a phony leftist ideas either way. The Student council can decide what uniform to wear. I especially like gakuran, it looks nice on everyone.
I prefer a mini skirt and a cute blouse.

[leftace53]

I look horrible in a mini skirt.

[Bad Grrrl Agro]

I look horrible in a mini skirt.
I look adorable in a mini skirt, but I can also rock skinnies. I look horrible in any type of short shorts, tucking becomes more difficult.