nihilist communism

[fionntan]

Ive read up as much as i could on on nihilist communism on this board i kind of grasp the fact that they believe the revolution will takes its own path without interference from the world wide population. Could someone please explain the
theory some more, thanks in advance..

[Os Cangaceiros]

From what I understand of it:

They reject the notion that somehow "consciousness" is what defines the possibility for a revolutionary overthrow of capitalism, and even moreso that "professional revolutionaries" are the people to bring about that consciousness. They view the revolutionary movement thus far as a long history of failure. They think that the only possibility for revolution/communism lies in the notion that a relatively small segment of the working class (most likely involved in a "pressure point" occupation, such as longshoreman, power station workers/electrical engineers, longhaul truckers, garbagemen, etc.) will decide that capitalism no longer works for them out of their own self-interest, and out of this rupture in the logic of capitalism a true communist movement will be born. Basically, they tend to view capitalism as ending not as the result of the heroic efforts of professional revolutionaries, but rather as the inevitable result of another economic system's declining relevance/inefficiency/collapse.

[bcbm]

its just some bullshit for hipsters, don't bother

[fionntan]

But if the bin men for instance stop as well as the milk men at the same time it can be viewed as a joint venture? yes.. So there fore its organised and dose that not defeat the point that
nihilists have?

[bricolage]

Key points I got out of it;

- Working class is an economic relationship, nothing more. Any attempt to glorify working class life, working class 'culture' etc is counter-productive. The working class struggles for its own self-eradication.
- Organisations as they so exist merely serve to collect 'pro-revolutionaries' who try to spread ideas. Revolution is not an issue of ideas but of material conditions.
- Revolution is not inevitable.
- The role of pro-revolutionaries today is not to propose 'alternatives' and 'ideas' but to criticise those that come up.
- Most 'revolutionary' action today is nothing of the sort so 'do nothing' (although 'do nothing' does not necessarily mean doing nothing).

I think it is a very interesting text and raises many good points if a bit depressing and reductionist but I don't think I read it very well so may have got it all wrong.


its just some bullshit for hipsters, don't bother

This too.

[fionntan]

its just some bullshit for hipsters, don't bother

Well if some one cant be arsed telling another person there theory and just types a smart comment ....

[bcbm]

But if the bin men for instance stop as well as the milk men at the same time it can be viewed as a joint venture? yes.. So there fore its organised and dose that not defeat the point that
nihilists
have?

they believe that such a rupture will not come as a result of conscious working-class organization but as the inherent result of structural contradictions that will eventually force the essential proletariat to the position of stopping/ending capitalism, at which point the rupture through which communism becomes a human possibility will be opened. basically its about the structural forces, not any real human endeavor.


Well if some one cant be arsed telling another person there theory and just types a smart comment ....

they're probably a hipster with whom you also should not bother.

[Os Cangaceiros]

But if the bin men for instance stop as well as the milk men at the same time it can be viewed as a joint venture? yes.. So there fore its organised and dose that not defeat the point that
nihilists
have?

I don't think that they reject organization, necessarily.

[bricolage]

they believe that such a rupture will not come as a result of conscious working-class organization but as the inherent result of structural contradictions that will eventually force the essential proletariat to the position of stopping/ending capitalism, at which point the rupture through which communism becomes a human possibility will be opened. basically its about the structural forces, not any real human endeavor.

I wrote above I took them as saying ' - Revolution is not inevitable.' but this seems to contradict it. Does the idea of an 'inherent result of structural contradictions' veer into determinism you think?

[fionntan]

A hipster? with whom? You sound like a citizen i would have nothing class ways in common with.

[bricolage]

I don't think that they reject organization, necessarily.
I think they reject all organisations based on collecting 'pro-revolutionaries' and spreading 'consciousness', ie. all current organisations.

[fionntan]

I don't think that they reject organization, necessarily.

But if they believe that it is a waiting game why organise on any level?

[bcbm]

I don't think that they reject organization, necessarily.

they reject all current types of "pro-revolutionary" organizing.

----


I wrote above I took them as saying ' - Revolution is not inevitable.' but this seems to contradict it. Does the idea of an 'inherent result of structural contradictions' veer into determinism you think?

i don't think they mean its inevitable, it isn't that deterministic, but that if capitalism is to end it will be the result of structural forces and it is through this ending that an opening to communism can be made possible, not by the conscious activity of pro-revs prior to the destruction of capital.

----


A hipster? with whom? You sound like a citizen i would have nothing class ways in common with.

lol prole stroll


But if they believe that it is a waiting game why organise on any level?

perhaps why nihilist communism is "a call to 'do nothing'"

[fionntan]

A lazy computer buffs job then? No activism?

[Os Cangaceiros]

they reject all current types of "pro-revolutionary" organizing.

Well, yeah, obviously, but I was referring to his example (ie milkmen & trash collectors cooperating).

[fionntan]

lol prole stroll??? What does that even mean im working class rich boy??

[fionntan]

Thanks for the non ignorant people for answering my question. I kinda know a bit more than i did before i asked..

[bcbm]

A lazy computer buffs job then? No activism?


"Do nothing’ means thinking about the reproduction of authoritarian and capitalist forms within this political milieu, it also ties in with our notion of revolutionary subjectivity and what is appropriate for the pro-revolutionary role." . . .
the concept of doing nothing is more than merely a provocation. It is a tool and a strategy which we will defend to the bitter end. It creates a perspective from which it is possible to evaluate actual involvements and proposals; and this perspective can be reduced down to basic questions, such as: “If we did nothing, would it make any difference?”

‘Doing nothing’ is what the vast majority of the world’s population does. This is the basic proletarian stance and attitude. If most people do nothing then it is important to attempt to understand why this is the case, to see things from their point of view, and to understand why they may be right.

It is ‘the struggle’ and not the activist which decides what should be done. Thus, it is perfectly legitimate to go home and wait until the struggle reaches such an intensity that it drags pro-revolutionaries into it (against their will) - because that is the only point at which the pro-revolutionary can make a decisive contribution.

lol prole stroll??? What does that even mean im working class rich boy??haha

----

Well, yeah, obviously, but I was referring to his example (ie milkmen & trash collectors cooperating).i don't think this would really be considered "organization," at least in the same sense as referring to pro-rev activities.

[fionntan]

I did read a bit about monsieur dupont ..

[Invincible Summer]

So would a nihilist communist not necessarily protest actions made by the capitalist class against the working class, as it just "pushes things to the brink" so to speak?

[this is an invasion]

So would a nihilist communist not necessarily protest actions made by the capitalist class against the working class, as it just "pushes things to the brink" so to speak?

I think they wish for pro-revs to act as members of the working class if they are actually members of the working class. Meaning if a pro-rev has a job in a factory, and the workers there go on strike, then obviously the pro-rev should participate and help give tactical advice. Not from an ideological position. It's not about converting your fellow workers to "communism," but about helping push the antagonisms in capitalism to their limits.

So this would look like trying to push for an extended strike outside of union control or an occupation of the factory instead of trying to get your co-workers to read the Communist Manifesto or some shit.

I may be wrong.

[Delenda Carthago]

Well,the revolutions always was a product of economical necessistys.So in a way,their critic to the volontaristic way of action of the left is right.I dont see why "nihilist" though,where does that come from?

I mean,I am a nihilist and a communist.But I never thought something like "nihilist communism"...

[The Feral Underclass]

There's a pamphlet. It's silly.

[synthesis]

How is "nihilist communism" not just a fancy way to say "determinism"?

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

One of the main attempts to clarify their positions that I know of. (http://anarchistnews.org/?q=node/10374)