Are Anarcho-Punks Bad for the Movement?

[IllicitPopsicle]

This is something, as an anarchist and as a punk rocker, that I'm quite interested in. I personally don't see much value in the anti-work stance of some modern anarcho-punk bands and partisans, and it seems like others just use the cover of anarchism to justify some pretty, well, un-anarchist shit, like rape and assault (something that was actually experienced in my scene). What does RevLeft have to say on this matter?

[Sasha]

sadly most anarcho-punks are deeply individulistic and their politics arent much deeper than "fuck you i wont do what you tell me" and "dont you infringe on my right to drink beer", luckily there are also a lot of exceptions to this.

[Cencus]

Anarcho-punk is nigh on 35 years old, and over the years had diverged from those early days, tbh I doubt a lot of the modern bands even know anything of the ideas of the original "scene".

The antiwork stance was always there to a degree. It was about not working for the state, but getting off yer arse and going diy, or getting by by scrounging off the state. (relative poverty was always seen as preferable by many to working in some shitty dank dangerous factory or joining the army. Which were pretty much your only options if you came off a council estate after going to a shitty underescourced state
school)


sadly most anarcho-punks are deeply individulistic and their politics arent much deeper than "fuck you i wont do what you tell me" and "dont you infringe on my right to drink beer", luckily there are also a lot of exceptions to this.

Sadly these kinda people exist everywhere and are just wankers who bring thee scene down. They certainly aint anarchos

[fa2991]

It's pretty useless, and occasionally detrimental. "Baby, I'm An Anarchist" is the wost fucking song ever made. Crass is a decent band, though.

[A.R.Amistad]

I plead ignorance on this, but isn't anarcho-punk just a subculture? Are any subculture's really a threat to anything? There are reactionary and revolutionary elements in every culture and subculture. is this just another fancy name for punk rockers who like to draw A's on their Chucks and hate 'rules' and 'authority.'

[Widerstand]

I plead ignorance on this, but isn't anarcho-punk just a subculture? Are any subculture's really a threat to anything? There are reactionary and revolutionary elements in every culture and subculture. is this just another fancy name for punk rockers who like to draw A's on their Chucks and hate 'rules' and 'authority.'

correct. Well, some of them have good politics, but some people with good politics are found in pretty much every subculture. The only thing is that they use a lot of "Anarchist aesthetic". I personally dislike most of what is called "Anarcho-Punk" (except Folk Punk and some anarchist Screamo) and the people associating with it, Crass being the crass exception to this.

And yeah, I do think a lot of them contribute to the shitty image Anarchists have in the mainstream media.

[Cencus]

I plead ignorance on this, but isn't anarcho-punk just a subculture? Are any subculture's really a threat to anything?

In it's heyday back in the late 70s/early 80s anarchopunk it helped bring in dissillusioned kids into the anarchist movement. Taught kids they didn't just have to do the same shitty jobs their parents did, showed them there was more than just getting by to life, opened folks eyes to issues beyond anything anyone else was talking about. When I was a nipper music was the equivalent of forums like this.

The Dahl house posse showed folks they didn't have to rely on the record industry to get their music to the masses. We're talking about an era with no mobile phones no internet etc. they actually made a difference here in the U.K., maybe not a huge difference but a difference none the less.



There are reactionary and revolutionary elements in every culture and subculture. is this just another fancy name for punk rockers who like to draw A's on their Chucks and hate 'rules' and 'authority.'

It is to some mores the pity, but it shouldn't be.


And yeah, I do think a lot of them contribute to the shitty image Anarchists have in the mainstream media.

It doesn't matter what you do the media will always find a negative angle to throw at anarchists, we are a greater threat than communists [jk]. Anarchists are an easy target always have been, always will be.

[IllicitPopsicle]

Thanks guys. This is the kind of stuff I was looking for. :thumbup1:

[727Goon]

I think it's a small subculture within a small subculture, so it's not really worth caring about one way or the other. I'm sure some anarcho-punks have good politics and others have shitty ones, but regardless they're largely irrelevant in general. Except for folk punk, the music sucks though, and that's what really counts in my opinion.

[Black Sheep]

I recommend a read on Bookchin's Social & Lifestyle anarchism : an unbridgable gap

[Scary Monster]

sadly most anarcho-punks are deeply individulistic and their politics arent much deeper than "fuck you i wont do what you tell me" and "dont you infringe on my right to drink beer", luckily there are also a lot of exceptions to this.

You got that right, brutha. Id say this is what anarcho punk always was (even though i love punk "music" :p), so i dont think it should be taken so seriously as to think it might harm a movement. If anything, it opens up young people to radical left-wing ideals, at least for me it did. But then again, as United Nations stated, radical ideals can be found in any subculture.

[AK]

http://www.ohsnapclick.com/wp-content/gallery/anarcho-punks/anarcho_punks_12.jpg
"Anaaaarrrrkkkyyyyyy!"

Seriously, do these "anarchists" look like they are furthering the class struggle at all?

[Decommissioner]

I wouldn't have become a communist, nor would I even have been exposed to such ideas, if it weren't for punks. These days they do more to spread leftist ideology than anyone. It may not be your brand of revolutionary politics (they aren't mine), but they spread the fact that these ideas exist amongst young people and thats important.

Also, I used punks very loosely. Punk to me encompasses a sort of attitude diy ideology within hardcore, punk, and even stoner music circles. I book a lot of bands from across the country that tour independently from labels. A great majority of them bring anarchist/socialist zines, many are vegan and lean towards animal rights, and some are straight up marxist.

The point is, they are spreading dissent and tying it with culture. I think this is invaluable.

[bricolage]

And yeah, I do think a lot of them contribute to the shitty image Anarchists have in the mainstream media.
What image? When was the last time you saw anarchism mentioned in mainstream media?

Seriously, do these "anarchists" look like they are furthering the class struggle at all?
Do they look like they are holding it back? Actually do they look like they are having one inch of impact on the class struggle either way? No because obviously they are an irrelevance to it.

[AK]

Do they look like they are holding it back? Actually do they look like they are having one inch of impact on the class struggle either way? No because obviously they are an irrelevance to it.
They distract people from actual anarchism - which necessarily focuses on class struggle - with their stupid lifestylist, hooligan-worthy crap.

[Widerstand]

What image? When was the last time you saw anarchism mentioned in mainstream media?

Idk, but the German media seems to have quite a fetish for labeling stuff "anarchist": The RAF, Anti-Germans, acts of vandalism against state institutions / police - whether or not it was actually politically motivated, etc. Also, it's not only the image in the media, but also, and more importantly, in the populace.

[bricolage]

They distract people from actual anarchism - which necessarily focuses on class struggle - with their stupid lifestylist, hooligan-worthy crap.
I don't think they do. For starters if they are 'lifestylists' (a bullshit word in itself) they probably don't occupy a position of social agency in the dynamics of production so who are they distracting? Themselves?
More importantly what distracts people (the mass amorphous blob that 'people' is) from 'actual anarchism' is the complete nonexistence of anarchism in workplaces and communities, the complete irrelevance of anarchism to 99.999999...% of the world. 'Lifestylists', 'Anarcho-Punks', whatever, they are all just scapegoats, the failure of anarchism must lie on the shoulders of the 'real anarchists' (avoiding the quite obvious limitations of material conditions...). Anarchism will grow when struggle grows, when anarchists can intervene in struggles, when anarchism can be united with struggle. 'Lifestylists' at that point will either be on the right side of the barricades, the wrong side or condemned to the dustbin of history, I don't know. But the arguments about them now and the ridiculously big emphasis others put on them now will have no impact on this whatsoever.

[bricolage]

The RAF, Anti-Germans, acts of vandalism against state institutions / police
Are any of these 'Anarcho-Punks' though?

[meow]

*yawn*

simple answer is no. unless your movement is only focused on worker class blue colar syndicalist boring crap.

if your movement also involves others then maybe it can help.

if nothing else maybe they do nothing at all.

but considering how small we are they cant be bad. virtualy all publicity is good publicity.

[Widerstand]

Are any of these 'Anarcho-Punks' though?

Well, when I tell people I'm an Anarchist their first reaction is that they expect me to dress up like a punk and live on the street. It seems reasonable to blame Anarcho-Punk culture for that reaction, along the ignorance of those I'm talking to, of course.

[ContrarianLemming]

Are Anarcho-Punks Bad for the Movement?

not in my opinion, I feel anarcho-punk groups, like Crass, have brought a great deal of attention to the movement while there lyrics talk about such issues as class war. They are a valuable asset to the movement and delearing them as being useless is no better then declearing the studment movement as useless, ignoring what it does.

[bots]

If you haven't lost your mind in a pit then you don't know what anarchy is. Heh.

[bots]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2dbCeagk4NI

anarcho punk video thread?