Are maps biased?

[Adi Shankara]

saw this today:

http://rsgsshop.xyzmaps.com/images/uploaded/lrg_upside+down+world+map.698e6b.gif

and can't think of why it doesn't make sense. why does the world have to be situated as such that the majority of the land area lies in the northern hemisphere? why is this projection correct? that, and why is it on a standard map Europe is in the center of the world?

Are our maps subtle propaganda?

[IllicitPopsicle]

How are babby formed?

[Fawkes]

They're totally biased. Think of who the people were that were the most prolific and dominant cartographers -- Europeans. They place their home front and center, and of course, on the top. I don't have any sources on this one, but one of my professors was telling me about research she was doing at one point about the historical diminishing of Africa's size in maps and charts, which apparently was/is pretty profound, but like I said, I don't have any real sources on that one, at least not yet.

Edit: And no, it ain't subtle at all

[AK]

Yes, Sankara, it's all a conspiracy.

[La Comédie Noire]

http://bigthink.com/ideas/21084

Africa's huge

[RedAnarchist]

As a European, it's rare to see a world map that doesn't have our tiny little peninsula-pretending-to-be-a-continent in the top-centre.

[RedAnarchist]

http://bigthink.com/ideas/21084

Africa's huge

Algeria on it's own is bigger than Western Europe. Back in the 1880s when Europeans divided up Africa like a pie that doesn't belong to them, they were carving vast territories out of the continent that were many times bigger than their own countries.

[Ovi]

that, and why is it on a standard map Europe is in the center of the world?
Maybe because the prime meridian passes through Europe (Greenwich)? Of course, that's a convention established by the Europeans...

[Devrim]

There is a problem making maps, which is basically that the world is not flat like a map. Therefore it is impossible to modal a globe accurately on a flat piece of paper.

There are different projections, such as the Gall_Peters, which was popular when I was young. This shows countries by size:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/87/Gall-peters2.jpg/450px-Gall-peters2.jpg

It certainly shows the true size of Africa as being pretty massive, but as it is cylindrical in has distortion in the polar and equatorial regions.

Europe being in the centre is obviously a historical remnant, but if we use concepts such as GMT and an international dateline, it makes sense.

Devrim

[NecroCommie]

Also, map projection were a cold war propaganda tool. American maps were projected with the one projection that made the soviet union look as big and menacing as humanly possible.

http://www.geographictravels.com/2009/10/nazi-propaganda-use-of-map-projection.html

http://www.learnnc.org/lp/media/uploads/2010/02/mercator-projection.jpg
Pictured above: The mercator projection, which while portraying the shapes correctly, distorts the northern and southern extremes of the map showing them as larger than they actually are. Soviet union, being on the northern extreme, therefore looks ridiculously huge.

[Wanted Man]

Not to mention Greenland.

[Sperm-Doll Setsuna]

The only way to properly display the earth is on a globe.

[Sir Comradical]

I have a pacific-centred mercator projection map in my room.

[Sasha]

this looks even weirder

http://incredimazing.com/static/media/2007/11/13/8b35dc48b316223/ABmDXjuJWkSf.jpg

upside down and australia as the center of the world :bored:

[Pavlov's House Party]

I like it how on that map, the two biggest countries in the world look about the same size as Australia.

[Wanted Man]

The only way to properly display the earth is on a globe.

Upside down.

[Sasha]

Upside down.


you do know that there is no upside down when your talking about an universial perspective dont you?

[AK]

you do know that there is no upside down when your talking about an universial perspective dont you?
Fucking planets, how do they work?

[Sasha]

its what happens when you are looking any object in an infinite space without gravity; up and down is defined purely by wich way you happen to be floating

[AK]

its what happens when you are looking any object in an infinite space without gravity; up and down is defined purely by wich way you happen to be floating
Precisely. But if you thought my question was serious, I am disappoint.

[Panda Tse Tung]

A Chinese worldmap:
http://www.mapcotrading.com.sg/002img/wallmaps/large/8.jpg

[Sasha]

;)

[Il Medico]

A Chinese worldmap:
http://www.mapcotrading.com.sg/002img/wallmaps/large/8.jpg
Why are there two greenlands?

[Comrade Wolfie's Very Nearly Banned Adventures]

Why are there two greenlands?

There were always two greelands.

[al8]

Its also good to have two Icelands, in case the other one brakes.

[Comrade Mango]

Also, map projection were a cold war propaganda tool. American maps were projected with the one projection that made the soviet union look as big and menacing as humanly possible.



But wouldn't that make people feel less compelled to fight the Soviet Union (if needs be)?

[Fawkes]

But wouldn't that make people feel less compelled to fight the Soviet Union (if needs be)?

Possibly, or it could make them fearful of the ever growing influence of the "mighty U.S.S.R." and that the western world must act now to prevent further growth.

[Il Medico]

But wouldn't that make people feel less compelled to fight the Soviet Union (if needs be)?
Probably plays into the "we are the few defenders of freedom against the great commie horde" line tbh.

[leftace53]

Yes. Maps are biased.

[Comrade Mango]

Possibly, or it could make them fearful of the ever growing influence of the "mighty U.S.S.R." and that the western world must act now to prevent further growth.

That another way to look at it.

[NecroCommie]

But wouldn't that make people feel less compelled to fight the Soviet Union (if needs be)?
This method holds similar logic to the nazi maps. Did you read the article? The idea was to show USSR as some "naturally" expanding menace that had to be countered else it would consume all.

[Il Medico]

I don't really think all maps are basis. But....http://www.democracyweb.org/new-map/ some certainly are.

[NecroCommie]

What the fuck is it with the complete inability of some people to understand that the word "freedom" is a subjetive concept?!?!

[GPDP]

I don't really think all maps are basis. But....http://www.democracyweb.org/new-map/ some certainly are.

What the fuck does "partially free" even fucking mean.

[Kléber]

Islamic maps were "upside down"

http://www.pakistanpatriot.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/islamic_map_1154_ad-by-idris-south-at-top.jpg

[leftace53]

I don't really think all maps are basis. But....http://www.democracyweb.org/new-map/ some certainly are.

I'm free in Canada? USA is deemed to be free? I call BIAS!

[IllicitPopsicle]

I'm calling for cartographer-primitivism! Burn all maps!!

[Rusty Shackleford]

i actually find the upside down map in OP to be very interesting.

im biased towards the earthly continental structure as it is and i really like when in strategy games, the random maps look close to a continental layout like earth.

any variation of it is great fun :thumbup1:




also, when they exaggerate upper asia, i can already imagine a giant russian bear:lol:


also, just go to google maps and scroll over the DPRK. not a single city is labeled even though you can zoom in and see ports and all of that.


Also, Gazan cities are written in hebrew, but israeli cities are written in english.

[Fawkes]

I don't really think all maps are basis. But....http://www.democracyweb.org/new-map/ some certainly are.

That's cause Mercator projections suck ass, and for whatever reason are still used even though they were created about 400 years ago and have proved flawed.

[AK]

I don't really think all maps are basis. But....http://www.democracyweb.org/new-map/ some certainly are.
Democracy web? Freedom studies? What is seen cannot be unseen :crying:

[Animal Farm Pig]

When you're trying to translate a roundish Earth to a flat piece of paper map, you have to decide what data you want to preserve-- shape, area, azimuth, and distance are the main ones. It's impossible to preserve them all. In addition, the larger the geographic area you're trying to project, the more error you introduce.

Typically, when choosing a projection, you choose the data you want to preserve based on what's important to you. So, for example, the military chooses to emphasize azimuth and distance. When calling in an artillery strike, those factors are more important than making sure that one can accurately calculate the square footage of an area or making sure that everything is exactly the correct shape. Other groups use other projections-- ie. Albers Equal-Area for the State of California, while State Plane is popular with many counties and municipalities.

Remember the issue of the increasing error as you increase the geographic size of the projection? UTM, which is used by the military, (and other projections) solve this problem by dividing the world into a certain number of zones, and building a coordinate system for each zone. So, for example, in the military I could call in an arty strike using 8 digit grid coordinates (accurate to 1 meter). I would call those as, for example, LJ,1411,1931. The format is zone,x,y. If the artillery battery is in the same zone, it's a fairly straightforward calculation; however, if I'm in zone LJ and the artillery battery is in zone LK, they will need to use some kind of correction factor when going between the two zones. The reason the State of California uses Albers Equal-Area instead of State Plane or UTM is because the state covers multiple State Plane and UTM zones. It would make it a pain in the ass to do any kind of GIS work. My county, on the other hand, uses State Plane because the county is entirely within one State Plane zone.

The upshot of this whole thing is that map projection is important depending on what you're doing and where you're doing it. It's also a pain in the ass if you're trying to integrate data from different sources with different coordinates systems, ie. Albers, State Plane, and WGS84 lat,long, which I have to do on a fairly frequent basis.

[ContrarianLemming]

the first world maps purposely placed England in the middle

we're done now?

[Animal Farm Pig]

the first world maps purposely placed England in the middle

we're done now?

There were competing Prime Meridians (logical E-W center of a world map) among imperialist countries. The adoption of the Greenwich meridian occurred at the International Meridian Conference (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Meridian_Conference) in 1884.

[ContrarianLemming]

There were competing Prime Meridians (logical E-W center of a world map) among imperialist countries. The adoption of the Greenwich meridian occurred at the International Meridian Conference (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Meridian_Conference) in 1884.

That is the single most boring post I've ever read in chit chat.

[Animal Farm Pig]

That is the single most boring post I've ever read in chit chat.

Sorry, I've been drinking, and I like maps.

Also, how the fuck is England in the middle of world maps? It's at 52 degrees north! :p

[ContrarianLemming]

Sorry, I've been drinking, and I like maps.

Also, how the fuck is England in the middle of world maps? It's at 52 degrees north! :p

It's even worse, they're on top!

but c'mon now, that level of bordem is extreme, go watch some Boxxy videos, frickin mesmerizing.

[AK]

Also, how the fuck is England in the middle of world maps? It's at 52 degrees north! :p
Latitude, comrade.

[Q]

Somewhat related. Euro coins are totally sexist:

http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/5976/250px2euro1dickg.jpg

[AK]

Somewhat related. Euro coins are totally sexist:

http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/5976/250px2euro1dickg.jpg
This is a disgrace!

[Sir Comradical]

A Chinese worldmap:
http://www.mapcotrading.com.sg/002img/wallmaps/large/8.jpg

The Pacific centred map. We have that here in Australia too. The one in my room is a mercator projection which makes Russian look twice as big as it actually is.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

My favourite projection is the Dymaxion map:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a8/Dymaxion_map_unfolded.png

Like the Earth itself, it has no right way up and therefore can be oriented in any way one pleases. It also avoids distorting Antarctica unduly.

[bailey_187]

There is an exhibition on maps right now at the British Library. Its shit.

[Rusty Shackleford]

My favourite projection is the Dymaxion map:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a8/Dymaxion_map_unfolded.png

Like the Earth itself, it has no right way up and therefore can be oriented in any way one pleases. It also avoids distorting Antarctica unduly.

best post in this thread.

[Comrade Mango]

Would the biasment be considered propoganda?

[Q]

Would the biasment be considered propoganda?

For whom? Every country projects their nation at the center meridian. I think that is pretty logical as you live in that country and the Earth is a sphere anyway, so setting any meridian asyour central one is totally arbitrary.

[AK]

There is an exhibition on maps right now at the British Library. Its shit.
What did you think? It's a whole exhibition on maps.

[Honggweilo]

http://www.kirklees-ednet.org.uk/subjects/ethnicmin/resources/blackdimensions/eurocentric.htm

[bricolage]

There is an exhibition on maps right now at the British Library. Its shit.
I went to that. Thought it would be alright but was just full of tourists so never got to really see anything. Best bit were the propaganda posters with octopus people.

[bailey_187]

I went to that. Thought it would be alright but was just full of tourists so never got to really see anything. Best bit were the propaganda posters with octopus people.

ah yeah, i forgot about that bit. was good seeing Bolshevik propaganda maps.

Other than that it was rubbish fancy art maps.

[nip]

I'm not quite sure what the uses for an upside down map would be for, they sure would be interesting to hear though.

[ContrarianLemming]

a whole thread about maps: how could this have ever been interesting?

[Comrade Mango]

a whole thread about maps: how could this have ever been interesting?

On the internet, anything can happen.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

I'm not quite sure what the uses for an upside down map would be for, they sure would be interesting to hear though.

You do know that whichever orientation maps are is completely arbitrary, right? There is no real cartographic reason why North should be on top aside from convention.

[nip]

You do know that whichever orientation maps are is completely arbitrary, right? There is no real cartographic reason why North should be on top aside from convention.
you do know it says the upside-down world on it right?

[RedAnarchist]

you do know it says the upside-down world on it right?

Probably because most people who can see that picture live in the North.

[nip]

Probably because most people who can see that picture live in the North.

Lol :lol:

[Meridian]

http://bigthink.com/ideas/21084

Africa's huge
Yea, Africa is large but... Why are they comparing Africa to a bunch of countries? Africa is a continent. Maybe they should compare it to the 'whole' of Europe or say... Asia.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

you do know it says the upside-down world on it right?

If all the labels and such are the right way up then it's not upside-down is it? Letters are read at a certain orientation for ease, but a map with North and South reversed relative to the labels would still be perfectly usable.

[Bilan]

If all the labels and such are the right way up then it's not upside-down is it? Letters are read at a certain orientation for ease, but a map with North and South reversed relative to the labels would still be perfectly usable.

It's 'upside-down' because it is commonly seen the other way around. It is not actually upside-down in any other sense than it is the opposite of how it is conventionally presented.