Conservatism Vs. Capitalism

[PoliticalNightmare]

What exactly is the difference? Is it that conservatism is about preserving and building stability in the current establishment (which is usually capitalist) while capitalism is about the endorsement of free market. If so could capitalists be viewed as radicals as they want gross political change (as let's face it although our current system is far from preferable we are also thankfully miles away from having a 'free' market). I read somewhere that conservatism is relevant to the current situation so a conservative that had been a socialist country (for a long time) would be pro maintaining the current socialist establishment. Is this true?

I posted this here rather than learning because I want capitalist input in this thread. Also the learning section in OI doesn't get enough hits.

Cheers.

[The Red Next Door]

Maybe, I am not sure, but there are social conservatives and then there fiscal conservatives. If they lived in a socialist country. they would have leftist views economically but they are socially conservative; as in anti gay rights and etc. In America conservatives are both fiscal and socially conservative. which here. that ties into capitalism because capitalism is an American tradition. so conservatives would like to preserve that, maybe if person who live in traditionally progressive/revolutionary nation, they might be conservatives who believe in gay rights, and pro immigration and socialism and tolerance. but i am not sure if i am correct on this one.

[Thug Lessons]

Conservatism is a political tendency, capitalism is an economic system. Simple.

In the days of the bourgeois revolutions, the conservatives were those who favored the old order of feudalism and monarchy, and the radical were those who wished to establish liberal democracy. Today, in most countries, the conservatives are those who wish to keep the existing social order more or less as it is, while the radicals wish to change it. This is somewhat different in the US where conservatives are often outright reactionaries.

However communists are always radicals, even under a workers' state, because their platform and policies are based on change. They are transforming society to eliminate classes, and until this is completed they are radicals. I suppose once a truly communist society is achieved you could call the communists conservative, but the term would have long ceased to have any relevance by that point.

[(DSL)Mai68]

not the same thing.

some capitalists are conservative, some are Liberals.but not all conservatives are capitalists, only in capitalists coutnry. in CHINA, conservatives are communist cause CHINA is communist (sortof! :D)

in saudiarabia, conservatives are Isalm cause everything is islam.

ectetera...

[Tablo]

not the same thing.

some capitalists are conservative, some are Liberals.but not all conservatives are capitalists, only in capitalists coutnry. in CHINA, conservatives are communist cause CHINA is communist (sortof! :D)

in saudiarabia, conservatives are Isalm cause everything is islam.

ectetera...
No conservatives are communists. China is a Capitalist nation.
No, Saudi Arabia is capitalist as well.

[RGacky3]

No conservatives are communists.

except for those that are.

Conservatism is a word that can mean many many different things depending on the context.

[Tablo]

except for those that are.

Conservatism is a word that can mean many many different things depending on the context.
I have never in my entire life heard that term applied to any Communists. Some Communists can hold conservative views, but conservatism isn't compatible with Communism.. maybe I'm just thinking of the American usage of the term. If I am then sorry. I would like to know about the usage of the term in Europe if I am wrong.

[Jimmie Higgins]

I have never in my entire life heard that term applied to any Communists. Some Communists can hold conservative views, but conservatism isn't compatible with Communism.. maybe I'm just thinking of the American usage of the term. If I am then sorry. I would like to know about the usage of the term in Europe if I am wrong.

I agree, I don't know if it can apply to small-c communists. In China there are conservatives who are big "C" Communists in that they are members of the ruling party (and communist in name only IMO).

I'd imagine that after a revolution, there would be some kind of analogous "conservative" and "progressive" split among workers over various questions, but since we really haven't seen a full transition from capitalism to socialism let alone communism, it's hard to say what that might look like.

But if there is Socialism, then I'd bet people would view the speed that formal "government" by workers could be abandoned - "conservatives" would argue to preserve formal structures for working class decision-making, while progressives would want to hasten the shift away from formality and towards full communism without formal decisions making bodies made up of workers and where all decisions are on a mutual basis rather than a democratic one. In this scenario, the ideas associated with anarchism would be the "progressive-side" and the ideas associated with "socialists" (i.e. a democratically-run working class society) would be the conservatives. But until the working class takes power in its own name, we are all just damn dirty radicals! :D

[Tablo]

I agree, I don't know if it can apply to small-c communists. In China there are conservatives who are big "C" Communists in that they are members of the ruling party.

I'd imagine that after a revolution, there would be some kind of analogous "conservative" and "progressive" split among workers over various questions, but since we really haven't seen a full transition from capitalism to socialism let alone communism, it's hard to say what that might look like.
I pretty much agree. I just doesn't seem to me that conservatism is compatible with any real communists.

[Die Rote Fahne]

I have never in my entire life heard that term applied to any Communists. Some Communists can hold conservative views, but conservatism isn't compatible with Communism.. maybe I'm just thinking of the American usage of the term. If I am then sorry. I would like to know about the usage of the term in Europe if I am wrong.

I have. Lenin has been described as conservative in the Communist realm.

[Tablo]

I have. Lenin has been described as conservative in the Communist realm.
I don't think it is really fair to describe him as "conservative". Authoritarian is a much better label for him.

[Dimentio]

Maybe, I am not sure, but there are social conservatives and then there fiscal conservatives. If they lived in a socialist country. they would have leftist views economically but they are socially conservative; as in anti gay rights and etc. In America conservatives are both fiscal and socially conservative. which here. that ties into capitalism because capitalism is an American tradition. so conservatives would like to preserve that, maybe if person who live in traditionally progressive/revolutionary nation, they might be conservatives who believe in gay rights, and pro immigration and socialism and tolerance. but i am not sure if i am correct on this one.

In Russia for example, the CPRF has social policies quite reminiscent of the Republican Party, while the right-wing liberals are more Pro-diversity.

[RGacky3]

I'm just thinking of the American usage of the term. If I am then sorry. I would like to know about the usage of the term in Europe if I am wrong.

Noam Chomsky discribes himself as a conservative. The term conservative in America has radically changed in the last 20 or so years.

What I mean by conservative is for example the idea that the family should be the primary unit of raising children, that respect for elders is important, none of these are political perse, although they can be, or that religion and the state should be totally seperate (in the US thats considered a liberal view for some wierd reason).

But even in the American communist sense, for example many within the catholic workers movements or liberation theologists are very socially conservative while economically radical.

[Dean]

Noam Chomsky discribes himself as a conservative. The term conservative in America has radically changed in the last 20 or so years.
source? thanks.

[Aesop]

I have. Lenin has been described as conservative in the Communist realm.

The fact that he legalised homosexuality and allowed divorce in the early part of the 20th century, hardly regards him as a conservative even in the communist realm.

[Aesop]

I don't think it is really fair to describe him as "conservative". Authoritarian is a much better label for him.

Even Authoritarian is not a label of any value. It is a tag used by some on the left who dislike the thought of needing a workers party.