how would a communist society obtain foreign goods?

[Dimitri Molotov]

lets say there was an island of real communists, who were self sufficient, and didnt use money, and it was ideal communism, how would they get goods they need from other countries? people always ask me this in debates and i am not totally sure, i just assume they would sell stuff until they have enough money (in that nations currency) to buy the item, and spend as much as they made on it, to get it without making a profit. and if it says how to do this in the manifesto, i apologize, im only like 6 pages in. im still in the process of reading it because theres a lot of big words:)

[Sperm-Doll Setsuna]

In an "ideal communist society", there's no other countries to "purchase" any "foreign" goods from.

[fa2991]

lets say there was an island of real communists, who were self sufficient, and didnt use money, and it was ideal communism, how would they get goods they need from other countries?

Plains, trains, and automobiles.

[Dimitri Molotov]

sorry, i mean maybe not like a global thing, what if it was just one island of communists, and the rest of the world was how it is now, how would they get their goods?

[Sperm-Doll Setsuna]

sorry, i mean maybe not like a global thing, what if it was just one island of communists, and the rest of the world was how it is now, how would they get their goods?

They'd suffer excruciating blockades, I imagine. What goods were exempt from blockade would have to be purchased with money made from export and a deficit is likely to quickly build up, in particularly if it was just one island. Case in point: Cuba.

[fa2991]

sorry, i mean maybe not like a global thing, what if it was just one island of communists, and the rest of the world was how it is now, how would they get their goods?

They probably wouldn't, then. Pure communism probably couldn't be created on a small island without any international support.

[Dimitri Molotov]

is there a way they would get international support? i guess a simpler question is how do communist communities trade with other non-communist communities?

[Sperm-Doll Setsuna]

is there a way they would get international support? i guess a simpler question is how do communist communities trade with other non-communist communities?

If by that you mean a transitory existence, not "communism", then, like any other country does. Foreign currency acquired via export used for purchasing needed goods not available internally.

[x371322]

A communist island cannot stay afloat in a capitalist ocean.

To trade with capitalists, I'd imagine they'd have to actually use money. And that of course is gonna get in the way of achieving communism. It's gotta be global to last.

[AK]

I'd imagine we'd send in a few of these:
http://www.allamericanpatriots.com/files/images/container-ship-san-francisco_0.jpg

But seriously, one of the immediate goals of the working class revolution is the spread of working class revolution. Isolation is a horrible position for a socialist or anarchist society to be in. There aren't too many western countries that could be self-sufficient if we overthrew the capitalist system at this moment. Poorer countries are a different story because they pretty much always can grow the crops and keep the livestock they need as well as produce any goods they might need (thanks to capitalist globalisation moving most manufacturing facilities there).

[bailey_187]

There aren't too many western countries that could be self-sufficient if we overthrew the capitalist system at this moment. Poorer countries are a different story because they pretty much always can grow the crops and keep the livestock they need as well as produce any goods they might need (thanks to capitalist globalisation moving most manufacturing facilities there).

More like the otherway round. Manufacturing hasnt 'moved', Britain produces more overall in industry now than it did in the 1970s, it just produces less as a % of GDP. Most poorer countries have no where near enough industry to be sel-sufficent.

Autarky is not what we want anyway. The Dictatorship of the Proletariat can still trade.

[AK]

More like the otherway round. Manufacturing hasnt 'moved', Britain produces more overall in industry now than it did in the 1970s, it just produces less as a % of GDP. Most poorer countries have no where near enough industry to be sel-sufficent.
Wouldn't poor countries such as China be relatively self-sufficient? It's got heaps of industry.


Autarky is not what we want anyway. The Dictatorship of the Proletariat can still trade.
Trade with the capitalists. Why? Isn't one of the aims of revolution the spread of it? I don't want self-sufficiency primarily, either. But it is necessary if revolution cannot spread. To trade with the capitalists is one of the stupidest ideas ever. The workers would have spent a few years or months getting rid of them, and now some bright spark comes up with the idea of doing business with them? (and in the process retreating from working class internationalism)

[bailey_187]

Wouldn't poor countries such as China be relatively self-sufficient? It's got heaps of industry.

China isnt representative of a poor country. Its GDP is one of the biggest in the world. IIRC i read something yesterday about its expected to take over Japan soon. It also has a lot of land, resources and people. The average poor country could not be selfsufficent, and definetly would have less ability to than the USA, Japan or a Western European state.




Trade with the capitalists. Why? Isn't one of the aims of revolution the spread of it? I don't want self-sufficiency primarily, either. But it is necessary if revolution cannot spread. To trade with the capitalists is one of the stupidest ideas ever. The workers would have spent a few years or months getting rid of them, and now some bright spark comes up with the idea of doing business with them? (and in the process retreating from working class internationalism)

Unless a brighter spark has a better idea, trade with capitalists is the only way a isolated workers state could gain access to what it needs and doesnt have itself.

[nip]

Just one word, magic.