IMT 2010 World Congress

[nideaquinidealli]

I think the IMT planned to held their 2010 World Congress in Italy, in the last week of July.
I haven't seen any statements or news about this Congress. Does someone knows if this Congress have took place?

[nideaquinidealli]

It seems the Congress have been a success:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Ol2Tgpw0BY

[Q]

It seems the Congress have been a success:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Ol2Tgpw0BY

How is a room full of people singing the internationale a sign of success?

[Wanted Man]

Of course, these things are always a success. It's not like they're ever going to decide: "Look here folks, it's getting a bit silly now. Let's call it quits."

It's always about how revolution is just on the horizon, the capitalist crisis is getting worse and worse, and the great masses are about to discover that entering the social-democratic parties is the way to go. Then one member spontaneously rises and starts to sing the Internationale, and the rest of the crowd joins.

It's actually remarkably Krushchev- and Brezhnev-like, except without the predictions that the western world would reach socialism peacefully, that class struggle is finished and the party is now "a party for all the people", and the great socialist motherland would go communist within a decade.

[nideaquinidealli]

How is a room full of people singing the internationale a sign of success?
You're right, Q. A bunch of jolly singers doesn't demonstrate nothing at all.
But, please, understand me. I was worried about the IMT fate. I live in Spain, and for years I have been seeing the IMT guys hardly working for strengthening their organization. Since january 2010, after the splitting of the inmense majority of the Spanish section, the IMT has completely dissapeared in Spain. They have a web site, full of articles with no relation with class struggle in Spain, but no IMT member is now doing political work in the unions, the Communist party or the Socialist party. Even, they have completely dissapeared from the students movement, their stronghold for many years.
I ended thinking that perhaps the IMT, after losing a lot of sections (Spain, Sweden, Belgium, Poland, Venezuela, Iran...) has self-dissolve, so I was truly happy looking at the IMT Congress singing The International.
That means the IMT is yet on the road, and isn't dead, as someone prematurely has said.
I hope we can soon know the political resolutions of this Congress, and also celebrate the establishment of the IMT in a new set of countries.

[vyborg]

The IMT is alive and well. Thank you for your interest...I was at the congress and it was great. As for the "sections" we lost...look at what they produce now. You will understand what they are and what kind of "loss" it was

[Q]

You're right, Q. A bunch of jolly singers doesn't demonstrate nothing at all.
But, please, understand me. I was worried about the IMT fate. I live in Spain, and for years I have been seeing the IMT guys hardly working for strengthening their organization. Since january 2010, after the splitting of the inmense majority of the Spanish section, the IMT has completely dissapeared in Spain. They have a web site, full of articles with no relation with class struggle in Spain, but no IMT member is now doing political work in the unions, the Communist party or the Socialist party. Even, they have completely dissapeared from the students movement, their stronghold for many years.
I ended thinking that perhaps the IMT, after losing a lot of sections (Spain, Sweden, Belgium, Poland, Venezuela, Iran...) has self-dissolve, so I was truly happy looking at the IMT Congress singing The International.
That means the IMT is yet on the road, and isn't dead, as someone prematurely has said.
I hope we can soon know the political resolutions of this Congress, and also celebrate the establishment of the IMT in a new set of countries.

I wasn't aware some people were talking about dissolving the thing, but surely they had a huge blow in the past 2 years in the three-way split (Pakistan, CMR, TANI). My running estimate is that they may have lost up to 1/3 of the organisation worldwide, particularly in Pakistan and Spain, their formerly two biggest sections (Pakistan still being the biggest).

This congress could have been used in two ways: critically self-reflect and take the lessons and reassert themselves or, what I think is more likely, sneer away the splitters (at most, probably not even a mention of them), act like nothing happened and celebrate new sections. If it is the latter I think it is rather a cynical way to regard the membership and build the organisation.

But I'll look forward to the congress resolutions.

Edit:
Ah, Vyborg seems to confirm my suspicion. Sad really. Such a cynical attitude will not prepare the organisation and make further splits very much possible.

[vyborg]

This is not cynism. I meant to be literal. Take my word for what they are. Look to what these guys write and draw your own conclusions...
Just an example: I cannot consider someone a marxist who propose to work in the Chinese CP as it was a relatively healthy workers party at the head of a progressive healthy workers state...and yet someone proposed it...I say to these poor foolish guys good luck but please out of my organization...

[bolchevique]

Spanish IMT is much alive and kicking,and for el militante (CMR )you can read its article and see its advances backwards, a great success its international with 110 , these goes back to 92 number, and a clear sign , this is its information is not mine, despite having the publish house , center and 33 full times when they split, but the life must go on

[bailey_187]

This is not cynism. I meant to be literal. Take my word for what they are. Look to what these guys write and draw your own conclusions...
Just an example: I cannot consider someone a marxist who propose to work in the Chinese CP as it was a relatively healthy workers party at the head of a progressive healthy workers state...and yet someone proposed it...I say to these poor foolish guys good luck but please out of my organization...

If you are talking about the person im thinking of, he does not say China is a "healthy workers state". I disagree with the persons position, but why try to misrepresent his position?

[Jolly Red Giant]

The IMT is alive and well. Thank you for your interest...I was at the congress and it was great. As for the "sections" we lost...look at what they produce now. You will understand what they are and what kind of "loss" it was
vyborg - will the IMT be publishing the congress documents?

[vyborg]

this is was they say. read for yourself their material...and as for the "left split" of the Pakistani section, I cannot wait to see their new material about Zardari...

[vyborg]

vyborg - will the IMT be publishing the congress documents?

I think so. In reaility, thanx to some very smart and democratic guy, they are already on the net...but yes they will be published officially

[Crux]

The IMT is alive and well. Thank you for your interest...I was at the congress and it was great. As for the "sections" we lost...look at what they produce now. You will understand what they are and what kind of "loss" it was

Thw swedish IMT defectors include the leading union activists in the very publicized and important wildcatstrike at the alcohol monopoly's warehouse. While I of course question their general strategy, which is still pretty much identical to the IMT line, they are hardly doing nothing, especially comparable to their small size, whereas the IMT loyalists, based only in gothenburg as far as I am aware, seem to focus on internal debating inside the Left Party, the ex-cp-gone-social-democracy light but sans the working class base. Just saying.

I hope the world congress went well.

[vyborg]

In Sweden the section is small (it was also before anyway). The good thing is that now they do a lot of thing. Before. due to the leadership of this great leader, they did absolutely nothing...

[el_chavista]

How is a room full of people singing the internationale a sign of success?

By standards of the post USSR's failure era? Or by standards of this capitalist overwhelming hegemony epoch? Perhaps the sole fact they had a Trotskyist congress and didn't divide their org, eh?


Just an example: I cannot consider someone a Marxist who propose to work in the Chinese CP as it was a relatively healthy workers party at the head of a progressive healthy workers state...and yet someone proposed it...

Is there a really healthy workers party somewhere in the world these days? As I see our isolation from the masses, I'm even considering left populism as the only road to a mass left party.

[vyborg]

There is a SMALL difference between a workers party even very degenerated in say France, Brasil, India and the Chinese CP. It is in power and it is completely fused with the state

[nideaquinidealli]

Spanish IMT is much alive and kicking,and for el militante (CMR )you can read its article and see its advances backwards, a great success its international with 110 , these goes back to 92 number, and a clear sign , this is its information is not mine, despite having the publish house , center and 33 full times when they split, but the life must go on
It's very good news that Spanish IMT is much alive, but it seems that it has gone underground. It's near impossible to contact with any IMT member, at least in Madrid.
The CCOO's Teacher's Union is getting in touch with youth organizations, able to promote the 29-September general strike amongst school students. At far as I know nobody in the Union could locate an IMT responsible.
What has happen with the Students Union? Are there IMT supporters in their ranks?
I know a lot of trotskyte groups inside IU: Nuevo Claridad, En Lucha, and also El Militante. Nobody knows nothing about you. Could you tell me which IU branch is the IMT working?

[bolchevique]

Well, Cayo Lara has joined IMT as you saw in the demo in Madrid, just a joke, you can see all this information in http://www.corrientemarxista.org/, but as you know all the full timers (33), exept one were with the majority , and the publishing house, but they aren't unable to publish any modern contribution to marxism or more than 4 pages analisis of any situation,also the locals and the center, so we had to start from zero without any infracture, but we have published two magazines and produced leaflets about the main issues, and you can see our activities in different areas, check on the net, if they want to work in IU will receive them with open arm, but then they must recognize that our move is the correct one, so some peope can admit their mistakes, his prestige is more important than the future of the working class,we are colaborating with Nuevo claridad and anyone who agree with our ideas

[vyborg]

I know a lot of trotskyte groups inside IU: Nuevo Claridad, En Lucha, and also El Militante. Nobody knows nothing about you. Could you tell me which IU branch is the IMT working?
The problem is what does it mean to be inside IU. This is the question. To have a member card o sell some paper is not sufficient. That's something JIR and the other couldn understand...

[McCroskey]

This congress could have been used in two ways: critically self-reflect and take the lessons and reassert themselves or, what I think is more likely, sneer away the splitters (at most, probably not even a mention of them), act like nothing happened and celebrate new sections. If it is the latter I think it is rather a cynical way to regard the membership and build the organisation.



What's new here? Virtually every leftist organisation I've been in contact with, in person or via the internet, has forgotten about the concept of self-criticism and makes a big deal of whatever small "success" they can come up with. In some cases, even downright failures are portrayed as, somehow, being a "success".

In these days, it looks like many leftist organisations' biggest enemy is not capitalism, but other leftist organisation and even different factions of their own groups.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iS-0Az7dgRY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YawagQ6lLrA

[nideaquinidealli]

you can see all this information in http://www.corrientemarxista.org/, and you can see our activities in different areas, check on the net

I've followed your advice and I've checked the internet. This is what I've found:
http://www.kaosenlared.net/noticia/declaracion-politica-integracion-izquierda-anticapitalista
It's a statement from several former IMTers, announcing they leave the IMT to join Izquierda Anticapitalista (the like in Spain of the NPA in France). They say they are based in Madrid and Asturias.
Perhaps this is the reason why I cannot find a single IMT member in Madrid...

Does someone know whether this move from IMT to NPA is an isolate fact, limited to Spain, or is a more widespread tendency in some IMT sections?

[vyborg]

If I understand spanish correctely they are not IMT member, they are former El Militante member around Munizio ("El Colectivo de Izquierda Marxista, está formado por unas decenas de activistas en Madrid y Asturias y tiene su origen en las expulsiones y posteriores crisis del grupo El Militante, hace más de dos años"). Anyway NPA is even weaker than El Militante in Spain so this is not a very astute move anyway...
(here something about the fact http://www.forocomunista.com/espana-f96/ia-izquierda-anticapitalista-t2189-70.htm)

In Italy NPA barely exists and in France La RIposte is doing a marvelous work in the PCF so the NPA will have to keep on without us.

[Q]

... and in France La RIposte is doing a marvelous work in the PCF so the NPA will have to keep on without us.

Yeah, I'm sure the 10k strong NPA in France will sorely miss your group of about 50 members.

[vyborg]

exactly, 10k against 50..so what's the fuss..they can go with their mighty revolutionary party..good luck to them.