Ray O. Light/Revolutionary Organization of Labor

[The Douche]

Anybody have any real life experience with these folks? No website, no mailing adress, and only periodic updates. But I hear they have international connections.

[Soviet dude]

I don't really know much more about them than what can be easily found on Wikipedia or a search engine. They used to be a lot bigger, but I would guess they're like 30 people now.

[Communist]

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A comrade knows or is well acquainted with one of the members of the Revolutionary Organization of Labor and spoke highly of him. I don't know a whole lot about their positions but they do have a mailing address, found here (http://www.mltranslations.org/Us/index.htm#ROL).

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[The Red Next Door]

Hey maybe you can talk to one the MLPD members, i am friends with on FB. His party have connections with the Ray O Light Group.

[BostonCharlie]

I'm rather intrigued by the ROL myself, if nothing else then for their history. Every left demo in Boston I've attended I've taken one of their fliers, but have never gotten up the guts to go talk to them. Next time perhaps.

[The Douche]

Well...that sounds appealing...

[Q]

Why necro this thread if you didn't want to put attention on it? Smart move.

Also, clearly the US is much worse than your typical tinpot dictatorship, so I can totally understand your sole focus on UNDERGROUND work [/sarcasm]

Lastly, users never get deleted from Revleft. Welcome.

[wunderbar]

the group is UNDERGROUND! do not post descriptions of its members or supporters online, please delete this thread. Direct all comments, concerns, or messages to this address

Boxholder
607 Boylston St.
Lower Level Box 464
Boston, MA 02116
USA

Material is regularly posted at the ML translations website

this USER will soon be deleted from REVLEFT

http://i.imgur.com/PjreQ.jpg

Because a P.O. Box is so secure, right?

[redhotpoker]

The idea of operating underground in the US in the current period is idiotic.
Bourgeois democracy along with the major political battles of the past 100 years has given Communists many opportunities to operate openly and we should take advantage of that. It is true that most open communist and anarchist groups have infiltrators either from local or national government entities but thats a risk we have to take. Even the Bolshiviks who sufferd harsh political repression by the tsarist regime operated openly when it was possible.

[JoshBleedsRed]

The idea of operating underground in the US in the current period is idiotic.
Bourgeois democracy along with the major political battles of the past 100 years has given Communists many opportunities to operate openly and we should take advantage of that. It is true that most open communist and anarchist groups have infiltrators either from local or national government entities but thats a risk we have to take. Even the Bolshiviks who sufferd harsh political repression by the tsarist regime operated openly when it was possible.

I can't even put into words how much I think your comment here is totally false. It is extremely dangerous to be overtly communist or socialist, the USG recognizes such movements as being subversive in their desire to overthrow the government and the CIA continues to track and target 'Leftist' movements. If you think otherwise, then please continue on the current course of action and please do write me if you end up in jail. Then again, you may end up in the same jail cell as me.

[The Douche]

I can't even put into words how much I think your comment here is totally false. It is extremely dangerous to be overtly communist or socialist, the USG recognizes such movements as being subversive in their desire to overthrow the government and the CIA continues to track and target 'Leftist' movements. If you think otherwise, then please continue on the current course of action and please do write me if you end up in jail. Then again, you may end up in the same jail cell as me.

I've been an open communist for like 10 years. I have been involved with various parties and organizations. A simple google search of my name used to provide hits on the SP-USA website. It didn't land me in jail, shit, I didn't even stop me from enlisting in the army.

Don't flatter yourself.

The only thing one ought to be remotely worried about, is donating money to pro-palestinian causes.

[Os Cangaceiros]

yo dawg, we're involved in some heavy underground shit man, if you want to know more just write to this P.O. Box, it's the only way a clandestine extra-legal org like ourselves can get secure correspondence. peace.

also, lol at the "Ray O Light" wiki page. I wonder if it was written by a party member...:rolleyes:

[The Douche]

Honestly, if you tell me "we're only underground, we can't risk an above-ground presence", as a reasonably street smart dude, that tells me you are doing things I don't particularly want to fuck with at this juncture in my life.

The fact that you supplement this statement with your PO box, tells me that I may be just a tad bit more street smart than you.

[JoshBleedsRed]

I've been an open communist for like 10 years. I have been involved with various parties and organizations. A simple google search of my name used to provide hits on the SP-USA website. It didn't land me in jail, shit, I didn't even stop me from enlisting in the army.

Don't flatter yourself.

The only thing one ought to be remotely worried about, is donating money to pro-palestinian causes.

I don't care what you've been. I don't want anything to do with you. I wasn't flattering myself. I didn't say anything flattering at all, about anyone period. You totally made that up and pulled that one out of your ass.

And if you haven't read any books in the past 15 years or seen any documentaries about the political climate and situation in the good ol' US of A (United States of Authoritarianism) then maybe you aren't away that the USG through agencies like the CIA, FBI, DHS and local and state police have been and continue to infiltrate political groups that are critical of them. Even to the extant of infiltrating political meetings and groups that consist entirely of senior citizens who share baked cookies together on a weekly basis. You have'nt the faintest idea of what you're talking about. You make shit up, claiming I flattered myself when I didn't speak a word of flattery. Quit lying, you won't lie to me so quit lying to yourself. And wake up. The Patriot Act and countless other executive orders are at your door.

[bcbm]

I can't even put into words how much I think your comment here is totally false. It is extremely dangerous to be overtly communist or socialist, the USG recognizes such movements as being subversive in their desire to overthrow the government and the CIA continues to track and target 'Leftist' movements. If you think otherwise, then please continue on the current course of action and please do write me if you end up in jail. Then again, you may end up in the same jail cell as me.
I don't care what you've been. I don't want anything to do with you. I wasn't flattering myself. I didn't say anything flattering at all, about anyone period. You totally made that up and pulled that one out of your ass.

And if you haven't read any books in the past 15 years or seen any documentaries about the political climate and situation in the good ol' US of A (United States of Authoritarianism) then maybe you aren't away that the USG through agencies like the CIA, FBI, DHS and local and state police have been and continue to infiltrate political groups that are critical of them. Even to the extant of infiltrating political meetings and groups that consist entirely of senior citizens who share baked cookies together on a weekly basis. You have'nt the faintest idea of what you're talking about. You make shit up, claiming I flattered myself when I didn't speak a word of flattery. Quit lying, you won't lie to me so quit lying to yourself. And wake up. The Patriot Act and countless other executive orders are at your door.

certainly the us government infiltrates and monitors dissident groups. this doesn't make being a member of said groups a one way ticket to jail

[redhotpoker]

Yes under the current system you could lose your job or suffer from police harassment, and should the capitalist class decide to suspend or temper democratic rights like they did during the two world wars and the McCarthy period its possible that you could go to jail. Yes the ruling class could in a deep political and economic crisis choose to take the Pinochet option and you could be tortured or worse for selling a newspaper with the "wrong" kind of political thoughts.

All this is true, however as communists we have to be ready to take this risk because we believe that the working class can take power and end the exploitation of man by man. To make that a reality we have to be able to take advantage of any political openings we can

[The Douche]

Dumb kids are dumb.

[JoshBleedsRed]

Dumb kids are dumb.

Reduntant bullies are reduntant. Notwithstanding the fact that they are inherently wrong, even if their ego doesn't allow them to see anything beyond their own backyard.

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

Some of you folks worry me.

Perhaps you haven't heard about the red scares, massacres, blacklisting, purges, round ups, deportations, executions, assassinations and more that have occurred in this great "democracy" over the last 100 years.

No, this isn't a tinpot dictatorship. It's a well-oiled bourgeois dictatorship machine.

[The Douche]

Some of you folks worry me.

Perhaps you haven't heard about the red scares, massacres, blacklisting, purges, round ups, deportations, executions, assassinations and more that have occurred in this great "democracy" over the last 100 years.

No, this isn't a tinpot dictatorship. It's a well-oiled bourgeois dictatorship machine.

And if you join a communist party or your neighbor reports you owning a red flag then you go to jail?



I think its funny that 1/4 of the threads on here are saying "why is the left irrelevant" and another 1/4 of the threads say "oh shit, don't let anybody find out you might be a communist!!!".


There are people on here who have been communists for like 50 fucking years, who have never seen the inside of a jail cell unless it was by their own choice.

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

Right, because prison is the only option. And no leftists have ever been imprisoned. All the other things I mentioned didn't happen either. No one has even been blacklisted or refused work. No one has ever been assaulted, tortured or killed by spy agencies, police, vigilantes or rightists. No one has ever been deported or denied citizenship.

The fact that the "far left" has been so irrelevant for the last few decades, and that the working class has been in retreat for most of that same time, is the reason why open attacks haven't been as frequent lately. But you'd better believe that they still go on. And you'd better believe at the first sign of something real, it'll be back in full swing faster than you can say "Red Scare."

[graymouser]

There are, currently, ongoing attacks against the far left. The Freedom Road Socialist Organization (Fight Back!) has been under intense FBI scrutiny with members' homes being invaded and documents taken by FBI agents, grand jury witchhunts and subpoenas attempting to make a crime out of their international solidarity work. FRSO has been very open about this fact and has worked with allies on the left and in the antiwar movement (where there is some other surveillance and intimidation going on) to expose and oppose this persecution.

I'm not down with FRSO's politics, but I've met some of the folks who are in the middle of this, and they are not responding by going "underground" - instead they are keeping this precisely above ground. I respect them tremendously for it, and whenever I do political work I keep a button on my bag (which I bought from them) that says "Solidarity is not a crime." It's the same with folks in the antiwar movement who I work with day to day, who got put on various "terrorism" watchlists by the government of Pennsylvania. They have no interest in fooling around with secrecy and underground existence, instead they bring a spotlight on what the state is doing.

So when I say I can't respect the position Ray O. Light is taking, it's not because I don't take state repression seriously. Even during COINTELPRO when the antiwar, black and communist movements were heavily infiltrated by the FBI, people did not go underground. Hell, the Socialist Workers Party made a federal case out of it and won. In the current climate, going underground is practically inviting the state to infiltrate you just to find out what you're up to.

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

Since state repression is a very real thing, it needs to be up to each person and group to decide how public or private they want to be. The principled thing to do is respect their choices.

I can criticize many things about groups like R.O.L.; but their attempt to maintain some privacy, however effective or ineffective, is not one of them.

[RED DAVE]

I can't even put into words how much I think your comment here is totally false. It is extremely dangerous to be overtly communist or socialist, the USG recognizes such movements as being subversive in their desire to overthrow the government and the CIA continues to track and target 'Leftist' movements. If you think otherwise, then please continue on the current course of action and please do write me if you end up in jail. Then again, you may end up in the same jail cell as me.Grow up.

This is an idiotic, ultraleftist position, which, in addition, assumes that's it's even possible to function underground.

RED DAVE

[redhotpoker]

Some of you folks worry me.

Perhaps you haven't heard about the red scares, massacres, blacklisting, purges, round ups, deportations, executions, assassinations and more that have occurred in this great "democracy" over the last 100 years.

No, this isn't a tinpot dictatorship. It's a well-oiled bourgeois dictatorship machine.

I'm pretty sure my second post covered this.

Essintially the Underground as practiced by ultra-left groupings today is completely divorced from the underground as practiced by American communists in the 1920s and the 1940s and 50s. Going "underground" today is a code word for resigning yourself to political obscurity.

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

political obscurity

So I guess the entire left is underground then.

[Q]

Grow up.

This is an idiotic, ultraleftist position, which, in addition, assumes that's it's even possible to function underground.

RED DAVE

To be fair, it is possible to function underground, but only from the point of view of already having deep roots at the time of going underground. In other words, it is only really possible to function underground as a mass organisation, like was the case in the RSDLP in Tsarist Russia for example.

I agree with you that it is totally impossible for small groups to do so, whichwill end up with a (temporary) dissolvement, waiting for better times to function. An added factor to this is the centrality most groups give to agitation, which assumes you are free to make your agitation and thus "above ground" work.

[BostonCharlie]

I go away for a few days and come back to this. :blushing:

My apologies to all for my error. I wasn't thinking straight. It didn't occur to me that giving vague descriptions that would literally fit thousands of people in the area would cause any harm. And in any case, the people involved were openly leafleting at public anti-war actions. Where the local police are openly photographing one and all (I'm a bit of an asshole about that, I just cheerfully smile and wave at the cameras. I don't give a fuck.)

So again my apologies, the desire for security I take to heart and I won't do it again.

And most certainly, my impressionistic essay of the characters I've met in the local Left will never see the light of day. :closedeyes: