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Conquer or Die
15th August 2010, 00:54
In the liberal-conservative divide of America there are two trains of thought when it comes to lists. The liberal line of thought is to exult people, and the conservative line of thought is to trash people.

Conservatives trashed Jimmy Carter as the worst person in history. What's sickening about that is the pure distastefulness in the way the list was constructed. Two whipping boys were selected out of history in John Wilkes Booth and Timothy McVeigh as people who did actual damage to America in horrific ways while the Republican whipping boy was identified as Tricky Dick Nixon. The rest of the list is opportunistic, with Saul Alinsky and Obama being the two most notable odd selections.

The list is here: http://rightwingnews.com/2010/08/conservative-bloggers-select-the-25-worst-figures-in-american-history/

Conservative bloggers are apparently opportunistic and pathetic in their selections. I mean, FDR and Sanger make sense, but was Carter really the worst American in history? It's not like I give a shit either way about Carter, but did he really do the most damage in history?

Another thing that bothers me about the list is the appearance of the rosenbergs. Sure they were "traitors" to America, and they were justly executed from a legal positivist perspective, but a nuclear parity world happening before the US got any cute ideas about bombing North Korea or China has to be historically shown as a good thing. I mean, assuming that Communist parity would never develop, is the assumption that nuclear power in the hands of one nation would be of ultimate benefit to the world?

Anyway, here is a counter list of the worst Americans in history:

Thomas Jefferson - Slightly Awesome, Slightly not, libertarian ideas about everybody owning farms to grow pot on and worship the Deist-Humanist-Christian Nebulae but no actual follow up in his policies as president. Most perverse was his policies of expansionism and support of France - Indian land was bought from France and money was given to the first dictator in the democratic age. He also refused to support Haiti for this reason. As a result of his actions America ended up supporting revolutionary France (which had slid off the fuckhole insane cliff long ago - Jacobinists be damned) and Haiti, the first free Republic of Black Men was left without allies or support from a man who hated slavery enough to impregnate women he probably personally whipped. The first French mole in the American consciousness is none other than Jefferson, too bad conservatives haven't picked up on this.

Andrew Jackson - The first Machiavellian president thought that handing out political offices based on your party loyalty was a good thing. His expansionism against Indians and iron support of slavery are well documented. He is the founder the Democrat party because he gave voting rights to all white men, regardless of their relationship to the means of production, and sometimes gets a pass for this reason - but the fact is that he did this to cash in on populist sentiment to pursue ruthless policies of greed and power. A typical democrat, one might say.

Edmund Ruffin - If you haven't heard of him then your missing a pretty big picture of the American Civil War. Imagine Karl Marx except he supports slavery instead of liberation. Imagine the impact of Karl Marx on the world as equivalent to Ruffin's impact on America and the slavery issue. No joke, this man was the basis for the southern revolution.

Nathan Bedford Forrest - Imagine Che Guevara, except more talented, more ruthless and a follower of Ruffin's ideology. Created and lead the foundations for the destruction of reconstruction and the promulgation of the white oligarchy in the south and in American consciousness.

William McKinley - The distortion between socialism, that is the liberation of the working class, and progressivism, that is the belief in the righteousness of government, is seen here. Government is a tool, and as a tool it was used to consolidate power in the hands of a few while buying off more reasonable socialist demands. The man was assassinated because the origins of libertarianism, of liberty, are also the origins of the labor and communist movement. This lesson needs to be learned by progressives of all stripes. The government, as is democracy, is a tool, not a promise of liberation.

Ayn Rand - Arguably the most perverted of all American philosophers, she was the first to replace Christ with the dollar. She saw freedom as subjugation. She saw classes of the glorious wealthy as intrinsically superior, the ubermensch class. Their unrestricted behavior is the swollen, uncontrollable phallus, and her exultation is the willing flower. Ayn Rand created cretinous whores with no ability to act in the common good or for themselves. She has poisoned several generations of Americans who are willing automatons for slavery based on greed. Her discharge sopped the American "intellectual" establishment in the form of Economic hit men such as Milton Friedman and Alan Greenspan who pissed away America's greatness for the adulation of profit.

Henry Kissinger - No elaboration needed.

Others:
Donald Rumsfeld
George Pullman
J. Edgar Hoover
Henry Loeb
Elijah Mohammed
John F. Kennedy Jr.
Herbert Hoover
Father Coughlin

danyboy27
15th August 2010, 00:59
only 2 brown people? i am surprised.

RGacky3
15th August 2010, 21:47
I love how Jimmy Carter is number one, but Noam Chomsky is tied with Richard Nixon (whome conservatives would have loved had he not gotten cought) and Jane Fonda, hahaha, these people have no brain.

Havet
15th August 2010, 22:14
who cares?

Dimentio
15th August 2010, 22:18
That list sucked.

No explanations why those individuals were there.

Sometimes, it feels like the Tea Party movement is consisting of primary school pupils who are bullying someone through Facebook.

IcarusAngel
15th August 2010, 23:03
Basically they just listed people who they feel threaten their free-market dogmatism.

I mean, Chomsky has no influence on policy but has helped america by encouraging foreigners and so on to study here since America has some of the best places to learn about linguistics in the world. His mathematical theorems have found many uses, and his theories have been backed up by neuroscience and have spread all over. I guess they figure he's hurt America by exposing imperialism and pointing out that a pure free-market would destroy civilization.

Skooma Addict
15th August 2010, 23:11
Here is my list of the worst persons in History (In no particular order).

Justin Beiber

Jeff Dunham

Lindsay Lohan

That one "Ochocinco" guy

Larry the Cable Guy

IcarusAngel
15th August 2010, 23:16
Could Ayn Rand really be considered an "American philosopher"? I mean, she started her nonsense in Russia.

The crazy, free-market ideology is not actually American philosophy but European philosophy (or Austrian philosophy etc.). It may have implemented in America, but surely was implemented in Britain first. Marx was reacting to other Europeans.

All those people in the American list I believe were born in America (except maybe Obama :laugh:).

Bud Struggle
15th August 2010, 23:16
Actually Jimmy Carter was verrry verrry good to me. Back in the day when I was getting started in business--he somehow managed to get the intrest rates on real estate up aroun 16-18%. Not good if you had to pay a mortage, but great if you had cash on hand because it depressed the price of the property considerably.

He'll always have a special place in my heart.

Dimentio
15th August 2010, 23:26
Jimmy Carter wasn't the right man in the right place. Though funnily he was pretty even with Reagan in the polls up until the dead end of the reelection campaign.

I know the Panamanians like him quite a lot.

Weezer
15th August 2010, 23:39
What did Jimmy Carter even do that was so bad? He was just a generic quasi-leftist president.

Noam Chomsky? I'm surprised, honestly.

IcarusAngel
15th August 2010, 23:49
^^^^Computers, compilers, CFGs, and theoretical linguistics and the Chomsky hierarchy = teh evil.

Computers = government involvement = NWO.

Jazzhands
15th August 2010, 23:54
What did Jimmy Carter even do that was so bad? He was just a generic quasi-leftist president.

the problem most Americans have with Carter was that he didn't do enough. In their eyes, he failed to do anything about the oil crisis, the hostage crisis, and we had a recession under his watch. I'm not sure I would call him a quasi-leftist.

Aloysius
16th August 2010, 00:29
The list is pretty amusing, but the ensuing conversation is a lot more interesting. Lots of ad hominem shit from the conservatives.

RadioRaheem84
16th August 2010, 01:13
The list proves that right wingers in the States are beyond delusional.

RGacky3
16th August 2010, 10:44
ONe thing I'd say about Jimmy Carter, he was imo the last democratic president that was'nt a fully owned subsidiary of corporate America.

Bud Struggle
16th August 2010, 11:38
ONe thing I'd say about Jimmy Carter, he was imo the last democratic president that was'nt a fully owned subsidiary of corporate America.

One thing he did do was set up things perfectly for the Reagan-Bush presidentcies. People were so disillusioned with him and liberalism they were more than happy to take the Republicans for 12 years.

RGacky3
16th August 2010, 12:13
Carter, was very centrist, infact some of his main opposition came from democratic progressives. He suffered from what Obama is suffering now, he alienated the left and the right of coarse will always hate him. Also the economy suffered during his presidency and the energy crisis did'nt help, nor did the Iran situation.

Dean
16th August 2010, 13:08
the problem most Americans have with Carter was that he didn't do enough. In their eyes, he failed to do anything about the oil crisis, the hostage crisis, and we had a recession under his watch. I'm not sure I would call him a quasi-leftist.

He failed primarily because he was a Washington outsider (you know the thing republicans love to lay claim to but somehow they always have the hookups) and had no support for his liberal reforms.

As far as I'm concerned, he was in fact one of the best presidents of the latter 20th century. Did he actually accomplish much? Not really. But when it comes down to it, he actually wanted to go against the current in terms of policy. He's basically the example that a renegade president that won't fully support the interests of aggregated wealth will completely fail.

Bud Struggle
16th August 2010, 14:14
He failed primarily because he was a Washington outsider (you know the thing republicans love to lay claim to but somehow they always have the hookups) and had no support for his liberal reforms.

As far as I'm concerned, he was in fact one of the best presidents of the latter 20th century. Did he actually accomplish much? Not really. But when it comes down to it, he actually wanted to go against the current in terms of policy. He's basically the example that a renegade president that won't fully support the interests of aggregated wealth will completely fail.

The problem isn't so much with Carter--but with the things that happened during his administration--the gas lines, the high inflation and the Iran hostage crisis. All three things made Americans feel diminished and helpless ansd he tool the fall for it.

TheCultofAbeLincoln
17th August 2010, 05:30
I like the counter list, but for bashing McKinley I believe you ommited his immediate succesor, Teddy Roosevelt. Not only did he carry on Progressive meaures with the square deal (of which I whole heartedly approve), he is basically the founder of the modern American imperialist movement.

George Wallace anyone?

Conquer or Die
17th August 2010, 07:43
Any list that doesn't include George Bush is epic fail

George Bush junior is not the worst president ever, or deserving to be on the list of worst Americans ever. The buck doesn't necessarily begin and end with POTUS, and irredeemable cretin though he was, he wasn't the master arsonist of neo-liberal imperialism with a Christian mask.

Donald Rumsfeld, on the hand, should be executed by firing squad.

Conquer or Die
17th August 2010, 07:57
I like the counter list, but for bashing McKinley I believe you ommited his immediate succesor, Teddy Roosevelt. Not only did he carry on Progressive meaures with the square deal (of which I whole heartedly approve), he is basically the founder of the modern American imperialist movement.

George Wallace anyone?

Theodore Roosevelt was an asshole, but he also used the executive to drillfuck industrialists - showing them for the nancys they really are. It's McKinley's actions which set the basis for the all loving government which is truly in the hands of big exploitative power bases. Teddy did nothing to stop this process in the long term but in the short term he did give in to more socialist demands and ran a ruthlessly pro common good government. He also had common sense, he was either going to eliminate football or require helmets. Helmets became required and football was kept, and is now the world's best sport and isn't completely rampant with brain damaged dumbfucks. He also saved land for conservation - natural and historic safeguards against rampant exploitation by said nancys.

If he wasn't such a patriarchal fuck he probably would've sent steamboat divisions to the Mediterrean and personally lead the charge into Italy and Germany on horseback killing and maiming conservative nationalists with a spear.

George Wallace is a potential choice, but less deserving. The crimes against humanity list that many Americans are on is a long one, but there needs to be a picking and choosing process. George Wallace is top 100, sure, but I don't know if he cracks the top 25.