Baby Bloc

[ContrarianLemming]

Question: Would you bring your child to a protest?

This is one of the stories on Baby Bloc.com, a site for anarchists with childrens getting there kids involved with protests and such. I really liked it, touching and sad, got me thinking about children whose parents are radical.

"This is an open letter describing our experience and a call to action. First and foremost I want to thank from the bottom of my heart the kind human beings who helped my children, my wife and me after we were pepper sprayed by the Portland Police. We were aided immediately by fellow demonstrators, the Black-Cross, and passers-by caught in the crossfire. These people shielded us with their bodies and soothed us with their treatments and words, and argued with police, putting themselves in danger, to secure our safe passage through the cordon. Their actions stand in beautiful contrast to the savage inhumanity of the police.
We brought our children to a peaceful protest, [Bush’s visit to Portland, Jan. 2002]. We stayed in the back and we were walking on the sidewalk. The march stopped at the intersection of 2nd and Alder, we could not see why from our position on the SW corner of the intersection. Police quickly moved up behind us and a moment or two later sprayed pepper spray into the crowd from the NE corner of the intersection. The crowd ran toward us to escape the spray. We asked the officer closest to us how we should exit the intersection. He pointed and said to exit to the NE, into the spraying police opposite him.
http://www.babybloc.org/082202pepperbaby01.jpgAs the crowd pressed toward us, I yelled to him to let us through (south on 2nd) because we had three small children. He looked at me, and drew out his can from his hip and sprayed directly at me. I was at an angle to him and the spray hit my right eye and our three year-old who I was holding in my right arm. In the same motion he turned the can on my wife who was holding our 10 month old baby and doused both of their heads entirely from a distance of less than 3 feet. My six year old daughter was holding my left hand and was not hit directly. We ended up on the sidewalk a few feet down Alder with fellow protesters holding my screaming children and pouring water on our eyes.
Someone yelled that the police had said that we could pass through the cordon on Alder with the children. I picked up the baby and other protesters brought my wife and other children to the police line. We attempted to pass through, but they leaned in their shoulders to block us. I yelled at them to let us pass for about two minutes and finally some officer up the line nodded me and the baby through. They were not going to let my wife and other children out but after a few minutes of pleading from the crowd and another signal from up the line they let them out. As we passed, the officers were laughing and said something to the effect of, "That’s why you shouldn't bring kids to protests".
I immediately called 911 as we moved up to the corner of 3rd and Alder. I explained that a baby had been directly pepper sprayed and that I needed an ambulance. They informed me that they would not send one and that all protesters were to report to a first aid tent on the other side of the police lines.
http://www.babybloc.org/082202pepperbaby02.jpgFellow protesters aided us until Black-Cross arrived. Business people brought water from the nearby offices and someone bought some juice for the children. Two KBOO staffers drove up in their Volvo and took us to Emmanuel ER. One of the protesters who had helped us from the beginning accompanied us to the hospital and waited with us until the kids were admitted (special thanks!).
The children were examined for respiratory problems and chemical burns. Luckily all were only suffering "normal" pepper spray reactions that have no treatment but to wait. The Pediatrician kept us a little longer so that she could call Poison Control to check for other recommended procedures as she had never in her career seen an infant pepper spray victim.
On the way to the E.R. my three year old said that those guys back there were trying to get us and said we should call the police.

Thank you again to all the wonderful people who helped us. "

[Raúl Duke]

Why would you actively bring children to a protest? I see nothing to be gain in such.

I surely wouldn't.

[The Douche]

I don't think there is anything wrong with bringing kids to a protest. But I wouldn't bring them around a group that might engage in illegal activity at the protest. I have had friends who brought their kids in black blocs that ended up getting pretty rowdy, but at the end of the action I didn't see them around anymore. I assume that they bounced out when things got hot.

[28350]

Wow, this is really stupid.
Reckless endangerment of kids.


As the crowd pressed toward us, I yelled to him to let us through (south on 2nd) because we had three small children. He looked at me, and drew out his can from his hip and sprayed directly at me. I was at an angle to him and the spray hit my right eye and our three year-old who I was holding in my right arm. In the same motion he turned the can on my wife who was holding our 10 month old baby and doused both of their heads entirely from a distance of less than 3 feet. My six year old daughter was holding my left hand and was not hit directly. We ended up on the sidewalk a few feet down Alder with fellow protesters holding my screaming children and pouring water on our eyes.
Someone yelled that the police had said that we could pass through the cordon on Alder with the children. I picked up the baby and other protesters brought my wife and other children to the police line. We attempted to pass through, but they leaned in their shoulders to block us. I yelled at them to let us pass for about two minutes and finally some officer up the line nodded me and the baby through. They were not going to let my wife and other children out but after a few minutes of pleading from the crowd and another signal from up the line they let them out. As we passed, the officers were laughing and said something to the effect of, "That’s why you shouldn't bring kids to protests".
I immediately called 911 as we moved up to the corner of 3rd and Alder. I explained that a baby had been directly pepper sprayed and that I needed an ambulance. They informed me that they would not send one and that all protesters were to report to a first aid tent on the other side of the police lines.

Is the baby supposed to act as a martyr?
Like, are they trying to get their child injured to agitate the situation?

Y'know, as a nasty authoritarian and all, I sometimes think people need a license to parent.

[Vladimir Innit Lenin]

No, if I am catching the sentiment of the article correctly, i'd not bring a child of mine who was too young to form their own opinions to a protest, march or whatever.

When my children reach a certain age of maturity, I will of course impress my views upon them, but it is their choice what they support.

[bcbm]

Wow, this is really stupid.
Reckless endangerment of kids.because all protests end in pepper spraying and, certainly, we should all go to any permitted protest event expecting police officers to unload pepper spray on people obviously holding children? i mean i'm not surprised, acab, but you're blaming the victim here. i don't think its any more irresponsible to bring children to a peace protest than to a music event or any other large cultural gathering.

as for the op, these people should've sued the fuck out of the police department and gotten a nice college fund for their kids.

[ContrarianLemming]

When my children reach a certain age of maturity, I will of course impress my views upon them, but it is their choice what they support.

How is it there choice if you - the authority figure - impress your views upon them?

i think as adults we sometimes forget that our words litterally are gospel truth to children, what we say is true, it's hard to present views to children as the truth (even if there just your opinion on the truth) and get them involved in the struggle then "leave it up to them" and expect that they will choose any toher ideology then the one you have presented as true.

I apply it the same way to religion, the only way you're going to leave it up to them is if you don't talk about politics at all, in which case they'll probably be apolitical.

[ContrarianLemming]

Wow, this is really stupid.
Reckless endangerment of kids.


Don't be overdramatic, it was supposed to be a peaceful protest, no one could have expected the police to pepper spray a family.
You're blaming the victims.


as for the op, these people should've sued the fuck out of the police department and gotten a nice college fund for their kids.

They did, I believe there actions resulted in halting the use of pepper spray in there city.

[Quail]

Wow. I know I shouldn't expect the police to be nice or whatever, but pepper-spraying a baby???

I would take my child to a protest that was peaceful, for example in support of an assylum seeker, but I wouldn't take him anywhere that could heat up. I wouldn't take him to an antifascist protest or anything!

[Vladimir Innit Lenin]

How is it there choice if you - the authority figure - impress your views upon them?

i think as adults we sometimes forget that our words litterally are gospel truth to children, what we say is true, it's hard to present views to children as the truth (even if there just your opinion on the truth) and get them involved in the struggle then "leave it up to them" and expect that they will choose any toher ideology then the one you have presented as true.

I apply it the same way to religion, the only way you're going to leave it up to them is if you don't talk about politics at all, in which case they'll probably be apolitical.

I was talking more about when they reach a certain age, perhaps their teen years, at which point my natural views will obviously be aired.

This doesn't mean that from the age of 5 i'll ram revolutionary literature down their throats and make them practice their Uncle Joe prayers, c'mon.

[Comrade Wolfie's Very Nearly Banned Adventures]

Wow. I know I shouldn't expect the police to be nice or whatever, but pepper-spraying a baby???

I would take my child to a protest that was peaceful, for example in support of an asylum seeker, but I wouldn't take him anywhere that could heat up. I wouldn't take him to an antifascist protest or anything!

Can I take him?

[crazyirish93]

to take a child to any protest is unbelievably stupid

[Comrade Awesome]

Even if I was sure it would not turn violent I would not bring children, it just seems exploitative.

[gorillafuck]

I would not bring children to a protest, they wouldn't even know what they were protesting.

[Tatarin]

No, it isn't the brightest idea. The child can get injuries that could last for life - which, as cold as it may sound now, could turn it against the ideas of the parents later in life ("baa, my father/mother was a damn communist! They did this to me!!").

I mean, sure, you could bring it to quiet demonstrations - parades, etc. But to Reclaims, blockades, anti-WTO/EU etc., no. Simply laid out; any situation that can result in injuries to adults are probably more unsafe for children.

And besides, what good is the child to the situation in question?

[Fietsketting]

because all protests end in pepper spraying and, certainly, we should all go to any permitted protest event expecting police officers to unload pepper spray on people obviously holding children?

Actually you should and expect it so your not caught off guard. Here in Europe I wouldn't take the risk of bringing a child to a protest. Due to the varity of protestors and there actions there is always a riskfactor. And then theres the pigs who are -always- a risk. That time its pepperspray but i also seen police in full riotgear having a go at peacefull protestors probely dozens of times now.




i mean i'm not surprised, acab, but you're blaming the victim here. i don't think its any more irresponsible to bring children to a peace protest than to a music event or any other large cultural gathering.
Music event, fine. Demonstrations i would not take the risk.

[Raúl Duke]

I would not bring children to a protest, they wouldn't even know what they were protesting.

This, just this.

I really don't get why the site seems to accept the idea of bringing children to protests, like why? Babies and toddlers are not interested in protests, to bring them seems, as Comrade Awesome said, exploitative to some degree.

[ContrarianLemming]

I was talking more about when they reach a certain age, perhaps their teen years, at which point my natural views will obviously be aired.

This doesn't mean that from the age of 5 i'll ram revolutionary literature down their throats and make them practice their Uncle Joe prayers, c'mon.

Views on politics don't naturally come about, they are influenced and devloped by people and events, it is never our choice alone.
I mean, I was never taught about anarchism, not once, but i grew up in a far left household (it was never explicit), my uncle was an anarchist, we were working class, I was always gonna be a leftist, i didnt really have a choice in the end.

the idea of the site is to get kids interested in first hand politics, not much different then political education class, except that it exposes who the bad guys are.

[Raúl Duke]

the idea of the site is to get kids interested in first hand politics, not much different then political education class, except that it exposes who the bad guys are. I really doubt taking toddlers to protests will accomplish this; the whole thing could be interpreted in a variety of ways.

Like this:


No, it isn't the brightest idea. The child can get injuries that could last for life - which, as cold as it may sound now, could turn it against the ideas of the parents later in life ("baa, my father/mother was a damn communist! They did this to me!!"). Kids might connect dots and see that it was you (the parent) who brought them to this dangerous environment the first place with explicit knowledge that it might get violent. Kids don't always have a one-track mind (cop sprayed me, cop evil), the could consider these other factors (daddy and mommy took me to a place where cop sprayed me with pepper spray; adults are evil).

[Quail]

This, just this.

I really don't get why the site seems to accept the idea of bringing children to protests, like why? Babies and toddlers are not interested in protests, to bring them seems, as Comrade Awesome said, exploitative to some degree.

Say I want to go support an assylum seeker at a demo outside the town hall, but I can't get childcare. What harm is there in going down there with the pram showing my support?

However, if it was something that had any remote possibility of getting violent, even if I wasn't going to partake in the violence, I would just stay home.

[leftace53]

Why would anyone bring their baby to a protest? First off, I'm sure the baby would get tired real fast, and obviously they don't even know what they are protesting. Secondly, how can a parent focus on protesting, when they are constantly worrying for the safety and comfort of their child?

Its just silly.

[Comrade Wolfie's Very Nearly Banned Adventures]

Why would anyone bring their baby to a protest? First off, I'm sure the baby would get tired real fast, and obviously they don't even know what they are protesting. Secondly, how can a parent focus on protesting, when they are constantly worrying for the safety and comfort of their child?

Its just silly.

Babies never, ever get tired when you think they should.

[Peace on Earth]

I wouldn't bring my children to an event that is likely to result in danger to myself or others. Bringing a baby to a possibly-dangerous event is reckless.

[bcbm]

i think its playing right into the hands of the cops, etc to take the view that all protests are "potentially dangerous" and we should expect to be pepper sprayed or worse and plan accordingly. for the most part, at least in the us, protests are a completely tame affair and this kind of hysteria discourages at risk groups (children, the elderly, people with disabilities, minorities, immigrants, etc) to stay away, which i think is hardly what activist types would want.


Even if I was sure it would not turn violent I would not bring children, it just seems exploitative.

would you send them to public school?

[leftace53]

Babies never, ever get tired when you think they should.
:lol: I just figured if its a long protest, the baby would be like "wtf dad/mom, I wanna sleep now kthxbai". I suppose babies are quite unpredictable though.

[Comrade Awesome]

would you send them to public school?
A protest is a show of mass support of a cause by weight of numbers and dedication; bringing along children who can't comprehend let alone make up their own mind about the cause is, bluntly, exploitation. How is that even remotely similar to sending them to a public school?

[Quail]

^If I can't get childcare, I can't show my support for a cause without bringing my baby in a pram. And as I said earlier, if it's just something like a demo to support a assylum seeker or something that has zero chance of getting violent, I don't see a problem with going along. It's not like I'm saying, "My baby supports this cause too." He's probably just thinking, "Ooh, lots of interesting things to look at."

[Comrade Awesome]

Well yeah, I don't have a problem with that, it's just when people try to use their children as part of the demonstration, hold up banners etc and send the message, as you said, 'My baby supports this cause". Getting them 'involved' with the protest as a way of furthering the cause you support, that's the exploitation I was referring to.

[The Red Next Door]

Someone forgot to add, protests can end up being another fucking kent state. I would not bring a kid to protest for that reason alone. Police do not give a fuck, about well being of a child, they just care about that damn paycheck and that it. They are ruthless as fuck. speaking from the fact that i have a cousin who wants be in the Army and after the police department, who happen to one time nearly choke me to death for expressing my beliefs and is extremely Anti Communist to a Maximum, due to a bunch of bullshit some reactionary ex nam vet, he has for a teacher; fed him. His dad who is an ex cop is just as ruthless.

Do not bring your kid to a protest.

[Ele'ill]

Babies and children are brought to demonstrations because it's important that they see and understand what makes their parents who they are.

Technically, parents with their children should be able to march up to a riot line without being mobbed by a 7 pig snatch squad, beaten, tazered or sprayed into submission- just like everyone else.

I think police in riot formation are more likely to attack parents with kids because there's that tension created by people undermining their 'systems of operation'- so they try to behave forcefully- to show that everyone is shit under the state- but end up overcompensating.

[727Goon]

I'll bring my daughter to a protest when shes old enough to agree to come, I'm not going to force my politics on her like it's a religion or some shit.

[Quail]

I'll bring my daughter to a protest when shes old enough to agree to come, I'm not going to force my politics on her like it's a religion or some shit.

I don't really see it like that. When your child is too young to form an opinion, it's kind of obvious that they're not part of the protest. When my son is old enough to disagree with my opinions, I will have no problem with him not coming with me. However, at the moment he's only 5 months old so if I can't get childcare and there is a demo I really want to support, I don't see any issue with bringing him along provided that there is no chance of the situation getting violent. I guess it might be different if you're not living with your child all of the time. I wouldn't go out of my way to take my son to a demo, but I see demos as being part of my life in the same way that, for example, going to the shops is. My son has no choice but to come with me in his pram so that I can look after him at the moment though.

[Start a Fire]

It's sad that peaceful protests can end up like this, but for precisely this reason, bringing your kids to protests is extremely irresponsable. Daycare can be difficult, but that's no excuse for putting your child in a situation like that.

[Quail]

Some protests have absolutely zero chance of getting violent though. I'm talking about stuff like supporting an asylum seeker or a picket. With that kind of thing, I see no problem bringing a child along. Obiously any situation that can get violent is no place for a baby or young child to be, but I think that generally common sense tells you not to take your child along if you have any concerns for their safety.

[bcbm]

A protest is a show of mass support of a cause by weight of numbers and dedication; bringing along children who can't comprehend let alone make up their own mind about the cause is, bluntly, exploitation.

you think bringing children into contact with a wide range of ideas and forms of expression is exploitative? i'd hate to be your kid.


How is that even remotely similar to sending them to a public school?

marching in a protest- exploits a child.
sending them to a prison-like center where they will be forcefully indoctrinated by the state- totally chill.

some people:rolleyes:



Someone forgot to add, protests can end up being another fucking kent state.

actually the entire thread has been full of hand wringers playing along with the state.

[Ele'ill]

Well yeah, I don't have a problem with that, it's just when people try to use their children as part of the demonstration, hold up banners etc and send the message, as you said, 'My baby supports this cause". Getting them 'involved' with the protest as a way of furthering the cause you support, that's the exploitation I was referring to.

It's not exploitation- it's tacky.