In soviet russia...

[Long Dong Silver]

hey, I don't want to get banned for this or anything, but would we not be banned in the Soviet Union? I mean, this whole site? And what's our status in china, cuba and north korea? Is this site banned there? I was just wondering because many people on here seem to idolize those countries...

EDIT: Sorry if this has been asked before, and sorry about the poor phrasing of the question

[Comrade Marxist Bro]

Nice first post -- hard not to think that you're a troll. But I'll bite the bullet in case it isn't.

Both Marx and Lenin were supportive of democracy for the workers, although (for various reasons) the socialist states of the twentieth century have not been democratic historically. Although we level criticism against such systems from the left, we also oppose the global capitalist system and imperialism. Accordingly, we aren't enamored of such ideas as noble America mowing them down in order to implement "reforms."

Most of us are very much in favor of a democratic system: in fact, it's pretty hard to establish a stable and viable modern society of any type without it. (And, incidentally, as inequalities of power abound wherever there is a powerful economic class dominating another class lower in the hierarchy, no true democracy can be possible within the capitalist system.)

We don't know nearly enough about either Cuba or North Korea to give a fully informed answer. Incidentally, some of our members here, like sunfarstar, are from China. We also have a Chine subforum. We like to pick at what is good and what is about about the remaining socialist (or "socialist"?) states, but few of us are either naive or uncritical about these societies.

Was this a "gotcha" question because you came here to troll? :mad:

[Bud Struggle]

hey, I don't want to get banned for this or anything, but would we not be banned in the Soviet Union? I mean, this whole site? And what's our status in china, cuba and north korea? Is this site banned there? I was just wondering because many people on here seem to idolize those countries...

EDIT: Sorry if this has been asked before, and sorry about the poor phrasing of the question

It's hard to tell what would actually happen in the SU--most likely it would be like the Communist countries that are left in the world today, China--which has the "Great Firewall of China" which only lets in some internet sites or Cuba which has internet for the most part in only in hotels for foreigners or North Korea which is so poor that no one has internet at all.

I doubt Blackbury service would be allowed in the SU. So the answer is: I guess if you were savy enough and had the computer and could find a connection--you might be able to visit RevLeft.

And as far as you being a troll--who the hell knows, but as I tell everyone new--this place has nothing (or almost nothing) to do with the stuff that passed for Communism in the old Soviet Union. There's a whole new rethinking of Communism here and it might be worth it to learn what it is about.

Welcome.

[Dean]

It's bullshit to cite centrally-managed state's as socialist regimes. Period. Socialism is control of the means of political and economic management by the working class or collectively by society. That's all. Even a state of things approaching such control is socialist (so technically, any nation with an inkling of democracy and a government that has some power over the economy - which all do - is socialist to some extent).

But the USSR? After the Soviet system (control by worker collectives) was de-emphasized under Lenin, it was less socialist than the US. To that point, so are most nations today.

You can't let yourself get caught up in rhetoric and moralism. Sure the US and Sweden are exploitative of the third world and at least in the US's case, overtly militarily imperialistic. But that doesn't change the fact that they are, among the nations today, two of the most socialist regimes. And this is simply due to the presence of more democratic power by the working class. That's all.

To that end, the most democratic (and subsequently socialist) nations are in my opinion:
-Greece
-Iran
-France

"But hold on, those nations are scaling back social benefits and enforcing religious law / religious intolerance respectively." But take a closer look. These are nations in which some of the most assertive, populist movements are taking place. Democracy is getting out and asserting the interests of the people - and hopefully in the context of a socially conscience paradigm.


Realistic political programs advocate the assumption of a particular social model for productive and political systems. The bullshit we see in the media and discussed in schools advocate the assumption of particular rhetoric. It's about playing to a materialist theory or an idealist morality.

[RedPaladin]

The CPC has once tried to keep this site from visited by people.
But even if they really do so, most people who really care would use proxy or other similar ways to bypass the "Great Fire Wall".

[Bud Struggle]

The CPC has once tried to keep this site from visited by people.
But even if they really do so, most people who really care would use proxy or other similar ways to bypass the "Great Fire Wall".

The apparatus of the PRC's Internet repression is considered more extensive and more advanced than in any other country in the world. The regime not only blocks website content but also monitors the Internet access of individuals. Amnesty Internationall notes that China “has the largest recorded number of imprisoned journalists and cyber-dissidents in the world.” The offences of which they are accused include communicating with groups abroad, opposing the persecution of the Falun Gong, signing online petitions, and calling for reform and an end to corruption.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_censorship_in_the_People's_Republic_of_Ch ina

[Long Dong Silver]

Nice first post -- hard not to think that you're a troll. But I'll bite the bullet in case it isn't.


Was this a "gotcha" question because you came here to troll? :mad:

Hahaha xD No, I'm not a troll. Just interested in leftist politics, and I've noticed alot of leninists/stalinists and a whole other of good (maybe slightly confused) comrades on this site praising Cuba/Soviet Union/China and their authoritarian governments at times. In my opinion, there should be no censorship of the internet or any other media outlets for that matter. Even if they're being run by fascists/capitalists/any other scumbag that can get a blog. Afterall, how would we feel if we were being censored?

[sanpal]

Nobody will know how it would be in the Soviet Union. I can tell only my personal opinion, not more. I think the site RL would be under a ban. There was an ideological department by the central committee of the CP of the USSR where marxist theory was adapted to political-economical situation in the Soviet Union and this ideological department aspired to be a monopoly on ideological line.

The magazine "Communist" was a publishing organ of the central committee where were supposed to be section for any discussions on the marxist theory. But I think communists who had the theoretical view different from party line didn't have access to publish theirs articles. If I'm wrong I think it could be examined in the archive of this magazine in some library.

[Havet]

To that end, the most democratic (and subsequently socialist) nations are in my opinion:
-Greece
-Iran
-France

"But hold on, those nations are scaling back social benefits and enforcing religious law / religious intolerance respectively." But take a closer look. These are nations in which some of the most assertive, populist movements are taking place. Democracy is getting out and asserting the interests of the people - and hopefully in the context of a socially conscience paradigm.


Which begs the question of why do you defend democracy if you think democratic decisions might go against the ideal of democracy itself?

[NGNM85]

In Soviet Russia it would've been impossible for a group of this size and ideological diversity to congregate and exchange ideas. We'd probably mostly be in prison or dead. However, I regard the Soviet Union as a total travesty, for the most part, so there's no cognitive dissonance, there.

[Tablo]

China and Cuba can access the site. For Cuba their connection is really really slow though. Reason it is so slow is thanks to the US not allowing a proper connection to the world wide web for them. North Korea cannot since they lack any connection to the world wide web.

[Die Rote Fahne]

If this bored followed Lenin/Stalin's behaviour on dissent, there would be no OI and the minority marxists - left communists, luxemburgists, etc, would have their posts deleted and accounts banned for disagreeing and spreading what the Leninists would describe as unwanted/dangerous ideas.

No offence to you Leninists here now. I don't think any of you would stifle the left communists, but Lenin's government certainly did and would.

[ComradeOm]

No offence to you Leninists here now. I don't think any of you would stifle the left communists, but Lenin's government certainly did and would.By "stifle" I'm going to assume that you mean 'out vote at party conferences'. It was perfectly possible for works critical of Lenin and the CP (such as Sukhanov's memoirs or SR publications) to be published into the 1920s


...the minority marxists - left communists, luxemburgists, etc, would have their posts deleted and accounts banned for disagreeing and spreading what the Leninists would describe as unwanted/dangerous ideasI mean, really, the Left Communists were a faction within the ruling CP itself, while the absence of 'Luxemburgism' in Soviet Russia can hardly be blamed on Lenin :glare:

[#FF0000]

Hahaha xD No, I'm not a troll. Just interested in leftist politics, and I've noticed alot of leninists/stalinists and a whole other of good (maybe slightly confused) comrades on this site praising Cuba/Soviet Union/China and their authoritarian governments at times.

Well yeah they did some good things even though they certainly weren't what we wanted.