The reactionary element of the Iranian State....

[RadioRaheem84]

I see good things and really bad things associated with the Iranian State. For one the obvious suppression of left-dissident voices and workers movements. The overt religious zealousness of the ruling Iranian class is maddening. There are no socialist elements which are allowed to develop due to the religious-nationalist apparatus of the State.

The things that I like to see sometimes are the national developmental elements in which the Iranian State engages in sometimes and offers their citizens a modicum of decent living standards while the rest of the Middle East endures harsh brutal poverty. Although I hear that drug use and depression is rampant among the urban working class.

I also defend them against imperialism and somewhat applauded the creation of the development bank along with Venezuela. So even with a damaging economic blockade they're still able to somewhat assist their citizens and manage to do a lot with half their economy under central planning.

But overall, the state needs to go in my assessment. The failures of the developmental Iranian State are directly due to the lack of democratic mobilization of the working class and the religious-bureaucratic class that dominate the central planning. During, the post-revolutionary period, the old elite still retained a lot of their power and garnered favors from the political establishment.

What hope is there for Iran with the establishment on one side and the growing liberal movements spurned by the imperial powers?

[RadioRaheem84]

No one? :confused:

[Raúl Duke]

Are all movements controlled or spurred by "the imperial powers" in Iran?
Why must we submit ourselves to these dichotomies?

[RadioRaheem84]

Are all movements controlled or spurred by "the imperial powers" in Iran?
Why must we submit ourselves to these dichotomies?

Well, not all, but the major ones are spurred by either Western money or Monarchist groups. I remember trying to jump start a conference of groups supporting the student movements in Iran. One such groups was Daneshjoo. When I contacted other groups to join they refused to be affiliated with anything that would have Daneshjoo representatives speaking too. The other groups assured me that it was Monarchist front and that I should be wary of a lot of groups out there which are funded by Monarchist or Western interests.

Of course there is also the outgrowth of liberal movements due to the failures of the Iranian Islamic Revolution, that the West is capitalizing on.

Also, why put imperial powers in quotes, comrade? Is it not correct to call them that?

[Raúl Duke]

I'm just putting it in quotes because some people claim all dissent in Iran is somehow magically tied or controlled by these imperial powers; I doubt that.

Some dissent is independently done and sometimes with no recourse to any organization.

If the masses in Iran want the end of the Islamic Iranian State than that's that, no western leftist should tell them No in the name of "anti-imperialism," etc.

[RadioRaheem84]

Some dissent is independently done and sometimes with no recourse to any organization. Oh of course. That doesn't make it good, though. At least not the liberal elements that want a liberal democracy.

[Raúl Duke]

Right now I'm more interested in hearing more of the situation of the labor movement in Iran vis-a-vis with the state.

The pro-Mousavi stuff is over by now, so the whole liberal element issue is not much of a major concern as it were before. The main problem still remains though: The hated reactionary state still stand. I'm also wondering what the Iranian left is doing to organize, after all if they were successful in organizing under the repressive Shah why (seemingly) aren't they now?

[RadioRaheem84]

Yes, I would hope for the leftist voices to gain ground over the much touted liberal ones in the press.

I am curious if anyone else has any info on this as well.

[Devrim]

The things that I like to see sometimes are the national developmental elements in which the Iranian State engages in sometimes and offers their citizens a modicum of decent living standards while the rest of the Middle East endures harsh brutal poverty.

I think that working class living standards are pretty low in Iran. Most people I have spoken to from there, talk about having to do two jobs to just scrape by.

Devrim

[RadioRaheem84]

I think that working class living standards are pretty low in Iran. Most people I have spoken to from there, talk about having to do two jobs to just scrape by.

Devrim


I imagine this is true, yes.

[Raúl Duke]

Any info on the labor movement and communist/anarchist/leftist movement in Iran?

[Nolan]

I think that working class living standards are pretty low in Iran. Most people I have spoken to from there, talk about having to do two jobs to just scrape by.

Devrim

Sounds like America for a shitload of people.

[KC]

Appreciating what the Iranian government does for its people is like appreciating the US government for food stamps.

Iran is a regional imperialist power. Defending Iran from "imperialism" is an incredibly bizarre statement to make.


Any info on the labor movement and communist/anarchist/leftist movement in Iran?

Check out our site (http://riseoftheiranianpeople.com/).

[bailey_187]

Iran is a regional imperialist power. Defending Iran from "imperialism" is an incredibly bizarre statement to make.


can u explain that further please?

[RadioRaheem84]

Interesting ideas KC. I figured Iran had a little more clout considering more than half it's economy is centrally planned. Also why is it a regional imperialist power?

[Raúl Duke]

I think it's reference to its attempts on influencing Afghanistan/Iraq...but I may be wrong.

[Ned Kelly]

Iran is a hellhole for the working class.
It's run by a pack of religious zealots.
Working people have no say.
That said, I'd rather this to a US invasion..

[Nolan]

If the imperialists were to invade Iran, the workers would end up like in Iraq: From the frying pan into the fire.

[RadioRaheem84]

Yes, but it's marginally more developmental that Iraq

[Red Commissar]

There are leftist elements here and there but the most organized element against the state currently are liberal types, following the example of the color revolutions in Europe.

What "left" groups exist are marginal and only exist in lofty statements their parties pump out, or nationalist types such as the various Kurdish groups in the northwest. There is opposition to the regime, but unfortunately it is either dominated by opposing factions in the establishment (Mousavi, Rafsanjani, etc) or youth who are motivated by the sheer oppression of the reactionary state.

What is the answer? That is up to the Iranian people and what decisions they make.

[Animal Farm Pig]

There are leftist elements here and there but the most organized element against the state currently are liberal types, following the example of the color revolutions in Europe.

This.

From what I can see here (not in Iran, but following the news with a critical eye), the color revolutionists are the most organized sector of the Iranian opposition. If there is a significant political crisis and Ahmadinejad's faction is pushed out, Rafsanjani et al are the ones I think are likely to take power. They'll open the country to western capital penetration (as they did in the early 2000's) and neoliberal economics (color revolutions have to "pay the piper").

The good looking, college educated urban youth might be able to get that "good job" and buy an iPod, but the poor will suffer as enterprises are privatized and social services are cut.

I'm no lover of Islamic law, but I think the working people are better served by the current government than a post color revolution government.

[28350]

Yes, but it's marginally more developmental that Iraq

Much more, I would say.

[Homo Songun]

Iran is a regional imperialist power.
That is the stupidest thing I've ever read on RevLeft.


Defending Iran from "imperialism" is an incredibly bizarre statement to make.No wait, that is. You broke your own record.

Please explain to us how Iran is "imperialist".

[KC]

can u explain that further please?



Interesting ideas KC. I figured Iran had a little more clout considering more than half it's economy is centrally planned. Also why is it a regional imperialist power?



Please explain to us how Iran is "imperialist".

I am, of course, using the word "imperialist" as it is generally used by leftists today. In the simplest sense, Iran is a regional power that advances its own interests within the region through the funding of outside groups to the extent that they are essentially proxies for Iran in the region.

You know, like how the US is an imperialist power...

[Devrim]

I imagine this is true, yes.

Yet you write like this:


The things that I like to see sometimes are the national developmental elements in which the Iranian State engages in sometimes and offers their citizens a modicum of decent living standards while the rest of the Middle East endures harsh brutal poverty. Although I hear that drug use and depression is rampant among the urban working class.

I also defend them against imperialism and somewhat applauded the creation of the development bank along with Venezuela. So even with a damaging economic blockade they're still able to somewhat assist their citizens and manage to do a lot with half their economy under central planning.


Sounds like America for a shitload of people.

It may be, but I think the material condition of the working class in the US is somewhat better than in Iran.


Yes, but it's marginally more developmental that Iraq

Yet before the wars, Iraq actually had quite high living standards.


Please explain to us how Iran is "imperialist".

Al states are potentially imperialist. Imperialism is not a policy, but a world system. Iran is a regional power.

Devrim

[Homo Songun]

Please explain to us how Iran is "imperialist". I am, of course, using the word "imperialist" as it is generally used by leftists today.

I don't think its a matter "of course" as to how you are using the word "imperialist". Its a very strange and unusual thing to say about Iran on any standard definition of the word in the English language. That includes the English used by "leftists", "today", yesterday and probably tomorrow. Either "generally" or in particular.

Moreover it is not "leftists" that are claiming Iran is imperialist, it was you. So cut the weasel words and show us how Iran is imperialist.


In the simplest sense, Iran is a regional power that advances its own interests within the region through the funding of outside groups to the extent that they are essentially proxies for Iran in the region.

That is not imperialism, that is statecraft. Where are the Iranian colonies? Where are the Iranian monopoly capitalists that are exporting their finance capital into them?



Please explain to us how Iran is "imperialist". Al states are potentially imperialist.

And the sun is potentially a red giant. So what?

Please show us how Iran is imperialist.

[bailey_187]

Where are the Iranian monopoly capitalists that are exporting their finance capital into them?

The situation where "banking and industrial capital are fused under the dominance of the later" is not needed for Imperialism. This was not the case in Britain in the classical era of Imperialism nor was it in the USA after WW2. It was only really the case in Germany, Japan and the USA in the late 19th to early 20th century.

How Iran is Imperialists, i do not know. Im trying to find some stats of FDI from Iran, but aint seen nothing yet.