Our problem will be overcome. We will win.

[DaringMehring]

What has been our problem for the whole period of capitalism's upsurge (1940s-present)? The USA at least, the labor movement has been cut off from communists. Resurgent capitalism and state repression have cut the link.

Without it, both groups fall.

What is a communist without organized labor? Nothing but hot air.
What is organized labor without communists? A plaything for class collaborators.

We have been on the defensive for a long time. Without good connection to labor, we can only try to preserve our traditions and keep them from degenerating too far off track.

But soon we will have our chance! In the USA, many unions have dropped their anti-communist clauses. The depression is bringing out a new generation of labor radicals. Communism will once again become an strong, organic part of the working class struggle. And at the same time, we will see communist unity based around the needs of the working class struggle.

Historical circumstances are coming to favor us. The stereotype of a communist will change from a student who gives it up in 3 years, to a grizzled, angry worker. The movement will again begin to produce Lenins and Luxemburgs.

So I say, take heart, and take action. If we don't win now --- maybe we'll never get another chance, and the sacrifice of the millions who have gone before us under the red banner, will go in vain...

[Paulappaul]

Hopefully we have enough time.

[LETSFIGHTBACK]

What has been our problem for the whole period of capitalism's upsurge (1940s-present)? The USA at least, the labor movement has been cut off from communists. Resurgent capitalism and state repression have cut the link.

Without it, both groups fall.

What is a communist without organized labor? Nothing but hot air.
What is organized labor without communists? A plaything for class collaborators.

We have been on the defensive for a long time. Without good connection to labor, we can only try to preserve our traditions and keep them from degenerating too far off track.

But soon we will have our chance! In the USA, many unions have dropped their anti-communist clauses. The depression is bringing out a new generation of labor radicals. Communism will once again become an strong, organic part of the working class struggle. And at the same time, we will see communist unity based around the needs of the working class struggle.

Historical circumstances are coming to favor us. The stereotype of a communist will change from a student who gives it up in 3 years, to a grizzled, angry worker. The movement will again begin to produce Lenins and Luxemburgs.

So I say, take heart, and take action. If we don't win now --- maybe we'll never get another chance, and the sacrifice of the millions who have gone before us under the red banner, will go in vain...


Now click your heels together.............

[LETSFIGHTBACK]

What has been our problem for the whole period of capitalism's upsurge (1940s-present)? The USA at least, the labor movement has been cut off from communists. Resurgent capitalism and state repression have cut the link.

Without it, both groups fall.

What is a communist without organized labor? Nothing but hot air.
What is organized labor without communists? A plaything for class collaborators.

We have been on the defensive for a long time. Without good connection to labor, we can only try to preserve our traditions and keep them from degenerating too far off track.

But soon we will have our chance! In the USA, many unions have dropped their anti-communist clauses. The depression is bringing out a new generation of labor radicals. Communism will once again become an strong, organic part of the working class struggle. And at the same time, we will see communist unity based around the needs of the working class struggle.

Historical circumstances are coming to favor us. The stereotype of a communist will change from a student who gives it up in 3 years, to a grizzled, angry worker. The movement will again begin to produce Lenins and Luxemburgs.

So I say, take heart, and take action. If we don't win now --- maybe we'll never get another chance, and the sacrifice of the millions who have gone before us under the red banner, will go in vain...


And this is a good example of how the left has no idea what it is dealing with. They revert back to, resurrecting old dead, worn out theories, slogans and programs. They have no imagination. FIRST OFF, we are living in an epoch where we are seeing labor becoming obsolete.Unions are less than 12% of the labor force. We have a perminate class of unemployed people that will never be employed again. A huge, growing segment of people employed are part time, low wage, unorganised service workers and temp workers, whose goal is NOT to be part of the working class,but to rise above the status of a worker.You can't use labor power as a weapon if you are unemployed,or if you are working,what are going to expropriate, paper clips,big macs,working 1,2 or 3 days a week.

As far as the workers, just as the left, they have no imagination, they are pragmatic, can't see past their nose. They think that there is nothing wrong with having to pay to live.And, when I put forward a vision for a new society, they ask "is there an example that I can point to" if not, they dismiss the idea of "what can be" and decide to stay with what they have and just try to improve it.It's a very intellectually lazy society with no vision. All they want, and are satisfied with is a little piece of the pie and surviving.

[Volcanicity]

And this is a good example of how the left has no idea what it is dealing with. They revert back to, resurrecting old dead, worn out theories, slogans and programs. They have no imagination. FIRST OFF, we are living in an epoch where we are seeing labor becoming obsolete.Unions are less than 12% of the labor force. We have a perminate class of unemployed people that will never be employed again. A huge, growing segment of people employed are part time, low wage, unorganised service workers and temp workers, whose goal is NOT to be part of the working class,but to rise above the status of a worker.You can't use labor power as a weapon if you are unemployed,or if you are worling,what are going to expropieate, paper clips,big macs,working 1,2 or 3 days a week.

As far as the workers, just as the left, they have no imagination, they are pragmatic, can't see past their nose. They think that there is nothing wrong with having to pay to live.And when I put forward a vision for a new society, they ask "is there an example that I can point to" if not, they dismiss the idea of "what can be" and decide to stay with what they have and just try to improve it.It's a very intellectually lazy society with no vision. All they want, and are satisfied with is a little piece of the pie and surviving.
What the fuck is your problem?your utter contempt for the working class shines through your every post.The instant anyone dares to disagree with your views,you start to go on the offensive and abuse them. you seriously need to let go of your ego.

[LETSFIGHTBACK]

What the fuck is your problem?your utter contempt for the working class shines through your every post.The instant anyone dares to disagree with your views,you start to go on the offensive and abuse them. you seriously need to let go of your ego.


And the left need to let go of those old, worn out positions, plus the old feel good revolutionary phrase mongering and look at what is, and develop a new strategy.

plus you didn't prove me wrong. you just told me that I have a problem.Yeah, I do, it's the unimaginative left. well, time to leave for the day. so who would like the last word?

[DaringMehring]

If you feel that workers are not the revolutionary class --- go ahead and try to do it your own way. You are more or less irrelevant.

In fact, that whole class of people will be proved obsolete soon enough... it only exists because of the historical divorce between labor and communism. In periods where the labor movement was headed by socialist/communist radicals, it proved that it could carry out aggressive and creative tactics. You think that will never happen again? Well, at Pete Seeger would say, you've got a right to be wrong. I've already seen a new wave of labor-bred radicals who aren't communists... but who could be. I'm sure others have seen this as well.

[DaringMehring]

Another thing not to be afraid of --- lack of numbers. Remember, the Bolsheviks only broke 10,000 probably around February-April 1917, and at the time of the October revolution, they only numbered 100,000 out of a country of over 100 million. Hardened working class militants can achieve a lot, in the right situation and with the right leadership and politics...

[fa2991]

Another thing not to be afraid of --- lack of numbers. Remember, the Bolsheviks only broke 10,000 probably around February-April 1917, and at the time of the October revolution, they only numbered 100,000 out of a country of over 100 million. Hardened working class militants can achieve a lot, in the right situation and with the right leadership and politics...

Uh... I don't think the American government is quite as unstable as pre-Bolshevik Russia. :lol:

[DaringMehring]

Not right now... but I am not saying Rome will be built in a day. Wallerstein says, for instance, that it will be about 15 years before world events come to a head.

[Stephen Colbert]

As far as the workers, just as the left, they have no imagination, they are pragmatic, can't see past their nose. They think that there is nothing wrong with having to pay to live.And, when I put forward a vision for a new society, they ask "is there an example that I can point to" if not, they dismiss the idea of "what can be" and decide to stay with what they have and just try to improve it.It's a very intellectually lazy society with no vision. All they want, and are satisfied with is a little piece of the pie and surviving.

And these are the exact type of people who come home and turn on Beck who is also intellectually lazy, agree with him out of simplicity, and live their whole lives without a thirst for anything new or revolutionary. :crying:

[bcbm]

i'm not gonna hold my breath

[A Revolutionary Tool]

And this is a good example of how the left has no idea what it is dealing with. They revert back to, resurrecting old dead, worn out theories, slogans and programs. They have no imagination. FIRST OFF, we are living in an epoch where we are seeing labor becoming obsolete.Unions are less than 12% of the labor force. We have a perminate class of unemployed people that will never be employed again. A huge, growing segment of people employed are part time, low wage, unorganised service workers and temp workers, whose goal is NOT to be part of the working class,but to rise above the status of a worker.You can't use labor power as a weapon if you are unemployed,or if you are working,what are going to expropriate, paper clips,big macs,working 1,2 or 3 days a week.

As far as the workers, just as the left, they have no imagination, they are pragmatic, can't see past their nose. They think that there is nothing wrong with having to pay to live.And, when I put forward a vision for a new society, they ask "is there an example that I can point to" if not, they dismiss the idea of "what can be" and decide to stay with what they have and just try to improve it.It's a very intellectually lazy society with no vision. All they want, and are satisfied with is a little piece of the pie and surviving.How pessimistic, while the working class is taking hit after hit from the capitalists right now internationally you dismiss them as complacent, lazy, not revolutionary, and then to top it off offer no solution whatsoever. This is the time we should be trying our best, capitalism is in crises and you sit back calling everybody lazy and unimaginative while offering no alternative. If you have an alternative please present it. If you don't you're just another person saying everybody around you is a sheep while they're all secretly thinking the same thing.


And the left need to let go of those old, worn out positions, plus the old feel good revolutionary phrase mongering and look at what is, and develop a new strategy.

plus you didn't prove me wrong. you just told me that I have a problem.Yeah, I do, it's the unimaginative left. well, time to leave for the day. so who would like the last word? We need to get rid of which positions exactly? Class struggle? Please explain yourself a little better, you're speaking in pretty broad terms while again not providing an alternative.