US President Franklin Delano Roosevelt: what's your opinion on him?

[Adi Shankara]

It seems as he grew older, he became more and more of a socialist, even somewhat Marxist with his "worker's bill of rights" that would apply to all Americans, irregardless of gender, race and color:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3EZ5bx9AyI4

Now I don't know too much about him, but as far as bourgeoisie politicians go, that puts him pretty high on my list. what do you think?

[the last donut of the night]

It seems as he grew older, he became more and more of a socialist, even somewhat Marxist with his "worker's bill of rights" that would apply to all Americans, irregardless of gender, race and color:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3EZ5bx9AyI4

Now I don't know too much about him, but as far as bourgeoisie politicians go, that puts him pretty high on my list. what do you think?

I don't think FDR was ever close to being a Marxist. He even claimed he put out the New Deal to stop a future revolution. He was just a liberal, just not the kind you usually see in US politics. He was the liberal you see more in Latin American politics, especially those in the 50s/60s: a nationalist progressive with lots of reforms (land, especially), populist rhetoric, and this ideal of the state as the moving force in 'the nation'.

[Adi Shankara]

I don't think FDR was ever close to being a Marxist. He even claimed he put out the New Deal to stop a future revolution. He was just a liberal, just not the kind you usually see in US politics. He was the liberal you see more in Latin American politics, especially those in the 50s/60s: a nationalist progressive with lots of reforms (land, especially), populist rhetoric, and this ideal of the state as the moving force in 'the nation'.

Well I didn't think he actually was Marxist, I was just noticing that the "bill of rights" he proposed had many Marxist-like reforms in it, including the right a home, the right to a decent wage, the right to health, the right to food and education, etc.

none of those ideals are liberal in the modern sense at all. maybe not Marxist, but Democratic socialist?

[bailey_187]

What he is calling for is pretty much what we got in Western Europe after WW2. Then they took it away.

[Os Cangaceiros]

Led America through WW2. Expanded the state and created what is now known as the "welfare state" in the USA. Prevented severed heads from being paraded through the streets of major American cities by using reformist programs.

That's about it.

[RadioRaheem84]

FDR, meh. Good liberal.

[fa2991]

The best president America ever had. Under his administration, America's workers were treated in an at least mildly civilized manner for the first time in history. How many other presidents had the guts to defend workers who took over and shut down a factory?

[thesadmafioso]

More left leaning then your average liberal of the time, and he had potential to expand on that to a point bordering something beyond that title, but sadly his death just left us with the likes of Truman. That last remark is not so much in praise of Roosevelt as it is one of expressing my disdain with Truman.

[XxKrebsxX]

Simply the best President this piece of shit country has ever had.

[9]

Oh yeah, totally, what a hero

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/43/Posted_Japanese_American_Exclusion_Order.jpg

http://ts3397.k12.sd.us/Event/Japanese%20Internment%20Camp.%20Aftermath.jpg


Concentration camps? What concentration camps? War? What War? Ruling class? What ruling class? Yeah, he was a tr00 socialist.:rolleyes:

[RadioRaheem84]

Don't forget the internment of Germans and Italians on the East Coast.

[fa2991]

Oh yeah, totally, what a hero

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/43/Posted_Japanese_American_Exclusion_Order.jpg

http://ts3397.k12.sd.us/Event/Japanese%20Internment%20Camp.%20Aftermath.jpg


Concentration camps? What concentration camps? War? What War? Ruling class? What ruling class? Yeah, he was a tr00 socialist.:rolleyes:

You have to look at the presidents comparatively. I don't think those atrocious camps were any worse than some of the horrible shit that, say, Andrew Jackson or Truman or Reagan or JFK did.

All the US presidents were pretty bad, but at least this one did something good for working people.

[Os Cangaceiros]

those internment camps were hella fucked up by any measure imo. although it seems to be the one aspect of FDR's presidency that certain conservatives can really get behind, though:

http://www.juicycerebellum.com/diaper3.jpg

lol

[fa2991]

God damn do I hate Michelle Malkin.

[RadioRaheem84]

All the US presidents were pretty bad, but at least this one did something good for working people. New Deal's main dedication was to business recovery rather than social reform.

Read Michael Parenti's chapter on the New Deal in his book Democracy for the Few.

[fa2991]

New Deal's main dedication was to business recovery rather than social reform.

Read Michael Parenti's chapter on the New Deal in his book Democracy for the Few.

Actually I was referring to the aforemention support of some striking workers who took over their factory.

Of course, like any major US economic package, the New Deal helped big business, but it also raised taxes, created government jobs for workers, and helped establish the American welfare state. Again - it's better than what any of the other guys pulled off.

[Sugar Hill Kevis]

It seems as he grew older, he became more and more of a socialist, even somewhat Marxist with his "worker's bill of rights"

You're a dumbass.

[RedSonRising]

I view him as a Social Democrat, a reformist liberal who sympathized with the working class but believed Capitalism was the most efficient and desirable economic system. He probably wasn't all too familiar with revolutionary politics, and if he had we can't say he would have taken to it, but his intentions seemed for the most part sympathetic to working people. Now, he shouldn't be pardoned for interning foreigners during WW2 or supporting the rise of Fascism in Italy in favor of a socialist candidate, but it seems like the working class was generally better off with his reforms.

The workers' bill of rights is a fairly radical idea that the working people as a class have particular interests that they should strive to protect and progress as a class. He's someone I'd point out as an example of someone with good intentions that unfortunately believed that capitalism was simply manageable and quite nice when regulated, or perhaps behind closed doors was just another leader supported by the elite.

As RadioRaheem said, a good liberal, but not much more. The least bad of US presidents maybe.

[stella2010]

A man that had a tough job.

[28350]

Center-left aristocrat, a savior of capitalism

[gorillafuck]

He was the leader of a capitalist state, and beyond that he led allied imperialists during WWII, his administration carried out Japanese internment, and for the large majority of Nazi rule he refused to give concessions to Jews fleeing Nazi Germany in regards to immigration policy. He had redeeming factors, much moreso than the likes of presidents like LBJ or Reagan, but nonetheless he was not someone to support. He was a capitalist and not as socially progressive as people often think.

[Saorsa]

He was the Commander in Chief of the US empire. He was an enemy.

End of story.

[theAnarch]

There hasn't been a progressive us administration since the end of radical reconstruction in 1877

The New Deal was a Keynesian scheme for saving capitalism in a time of crisis, with industrial and financial bailouts, public works, social programs, price controls, union busting, and of course massive military rearmament and war.

FDR was in no way a fascist but the formula was basically the same as the one used in Germany after 1933.

[Achara]

"He may be an S.O.B. but he is our S.O.B" - on Trujillo.

[Lenina Rosenweg]

FDR sabotaged Sinclair Lewis's socialist EPIC campaign for governor of California.

http://vi.uh.edu/pages/buzzmat/htdtisupton.html

FDR was very remote from being a Marxist. He worked to stabilize and regulate capitalism. The CPUS's support for FDR helped sink emerging projects for a working class third party, tieing the working class to the horrible Dems for at least the next 70 years and probably the next 100 years. The government works programs were something but not nearly as much as usually thought. Much of the New Deal was enacted in reaction to mass pressure from below. During the Minneapolis Teamsters strike of 1934 he contemplated sending federal troops to Minnesota to suppress the workers.

CCC projects were politically motivated. Funding was turned on and off in connection with political expediency. FDR did nothing to fight the highly repressive racism in the US south, refusing to support an anti-lynching bill.

Possibly the only truly progressive (in the broader sense of the term) president the US has had was Abe Lincoln

[AK]

Well I didn't think he actually was Marxist, I was just noticing that the "bill of rights" he proposed had many Marxist-like reforms in it, including the right a home, the right to a decent wage, the right to health, the right to food and education, etc.
That's not explicitly Marxist, that's just common sense.

[REDSOX]

Roosevelts new deal reforms from 1933 onwards undoubtedly saved the whole capitalist system from collapsing into oblivion. However it was world war 2 which brought it out of depression totally. His reforms did just enough to prop the economy up, and save the country from the prospect of mass disorder and the spectre of communism. A reformist is what he was

[fa2991]

That's not explicitly Marxist, that's just common sense.

To be fair, it's common sense that only socialists seem to have. :p

[Victory]

Oh yeah, totally, what a hero

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/43/Posted_Japanese_American_Exclusion_Order.jpg

http://ts3397.k12.sd.us/Event/Japanese%20Internment%20Camp.%20Aftermath.jpg


Concentration camps? What concentration camps? War? What War? Ruling class? What ruling class? Yeah, he was a tr00 socialist.:rolleyes:

Nice way to blame everything on one man. You're a typical left Communist.

[9]

Nice way to blame everything on one man. You're a typical left Communist.

lol
a) I'm not a left communist
b) yeah its not like he was the head of a capitalist state, or that the capitalist state is the instrument of any particular class, or that he therefore represented the interests of a particular class. Its not like he presided over an imperialist war which resulted in millions upon millions upon millions of dead. And its not like he signed the executive order that authorized the internment of hundreds of thousands of people in concentration camps on the basis of ethnic background and nationality.

But nice way to defend the head of a capitalist state. You're a typical Maoist.

[Tenka]

He was optimistic about Capitalism's capabilities and thought he could save the system without sending the working class through a meat-grinder--which, in my eyes, makes him the least bad of U.S. Presidents. I know that's not saying much.

[RadioRaheem84]

FDR was first concerned with saving capitalism, aiding workers only came in second and that was because it was economic policy at the time to so.

Keynesianism is not a leftist ideology. We only factor as a means to spur the economy, hence the aid to the working class.

To understand this, read Keynes letter to FDR in Naomi Klein's Shock Doctrine where he praises him for saving capitalism, first and foremost.

[NoOneIsIllegal]

The best president America ever had. Under his administration, America's workers were treated in an at least mildly civilized manner for the first time in history. How many other presidents had the guts to defend workers who took over and shut down a factory?
He did put down a few strikes in his day...

[AK]

To be fair, it's common sense that only socialists seem to have. :p
So FDR was a socialist? Numerous lol-berals are socialists? Why wasn't I informed of this? Oh, right...
http://fellowshipofminds.files.wordpress.com/2010/08/untitled.jpg

[Saorsa]

But nice way to defend the head of a capitalist state. You're a typical Maoist.

Not really.

[AK]

Nice way to blame everything on one man. You're a typical left Communist.
And you're much better, presumably blaming everything on them revisionists.

[RadioRaheem84]

So FDR was a socialist? Numerous lol-berals are socialists? Why wasn't I informed of this? Oh, right...
http://fellowshipofminds.files.wordpress.com/2010/08/untitled.jpg

Argh!! I hate the media!!!:mad:

[x359594]

Nice way to blame everything on one man...

Nor can we credit all progressive measures to one man.

There's a book called Presidential Power by Richard Neustadt that spells out just how such power is exercised and the constraints placed upon the president.

For example, Claude Bowers the US Ambassador to Spain urged Roosevelt to allow US arms sales to the Spanish Republic, and privately Roosevelt wanted to do so, but he caved in to Joseph Kennedy and the Catholic Church lobby.

As for Executive Order 9066 that authorized internment, its origins lay in California politics and the agribusness lobby there. Not only were people imprisoned solely because of their race, but there was a huge transfer of land from small farmers in California's Central Valley to agribusiness, so say nothing of the transfer of wealth and property from Japanese-Americans engaged in the fishing industry, light manufacture and small retail (the first two often collectively owned and operated.)

[Red Commissar]

FDR probably did the most to prevent the United States to go to socialism. The world was going through its crises and most western nations either fell to fascism or adopted social democratic methods to preserve its economic systems.

His economic reforms were focused on state interventionist concepts and keeping the large industries functional, while making concessions to workers in order to stave off the popularity of Communist and Socialist groups in the US at the time. In short he found a way to keep American capitalism sound with out it being destroyed from within.

As far as other American presidents go he's probably among the least worst. I find it amusing when right-wing pundits here go and pile on FDR everything wrong with this country and introducing socialism to this country (i.e. big gubmint social security taxes!!11!), where in actuality they should be thanking FDR for breaking socialism when it had a chance to gain in popularity.