communist party of australia (marxist - leninist)

[Ned Kelly]

are they still active?

[Niccolò Rossi]

What does active mean? They are still alive it seems, the latest issue of Vanguard came out this month.

But really, does it matter?

Nic.

[Ned Kelly]

active, as in, there being activity aside from producing vanguard.
it does matter, i'd consider getting involved.

kaz

[Chambered Word]

Never seen them at demonstrations, they probably turn up now and then over East. So I don't think so.

[Niccolò Rossi]

active, as in, there being activity aside from producing vanguard.

I have no idea. Only time I've ever encountered them was at May Day 2009. I think there was 1 or 2 of them.


it does matter, i'd consider getting involved.

What do you think about their call for an 'independant Australia'?

Nic.

[progressive_lefty]

I think I may have seen them at the Woodford Folk Festival a couple of years ago, and bought some t-shirts from them lol.

[Ned Kelly]

What do you think about their call for an 'independant Australia'?

Nic.

I think it is a fundamentally good call, as I think we are being far too heavily influenced by overseas capital and U.S military influence, but i disagree with their position slightly, this imperialism isn't just coming from the U.S, the influence of capital from capitalist China is having too large an influence. The position does lend itself to xenophobia though, i suppose.

[Niccolò Rossi]

I think it is a fundamentally good call, as I think we are being far too heavily influenced by overseas capital and U.S military influence, but i disagree with their position slightly, this imperialism isn't just coming from the U.S, the influence of capital from capitalist China is having too large an influence.

Do you think Australian capital asserting it's imperialist ambitions solo is preferable? I think this is what the line amounts to.

In our view, communists are not the policy advisors of the bourgeois state.


The position does lend itself to xenophobia though, i suppose.

I happen to agree. What implications do you think this has for the line? How do we weigh it up?

Nic.

[Ned Kelly]

Its simply an assertion that this foreign exploitation does need to be stopped, but yeah, I agree, their line could indeed be a lot more clearly anti our own capital.

If executed properly, it is anti - foreign capital not anti international proletariat

[Niccolò Rossi]

Its simply an assertion that this foreign exploitation does need to be stopped, but yeah, I agree, their line could indeed be a lot more clearly anti our own capital.

If executed properly, it is anti - foreign capital not anti international proletariat

Do you think Australia is an oppressed nation? Is Australia under imperialist domination? If so, by whom?

I think the entire idea is nonsense. Australia is an imperialist power.

Nic.

[Ned Kelly]

I just think that this would be a way forward, from which we could act as a beacon and give material support to other budding revolutions

[Niccolò Rossi]

I just think that this would be a way forward, from which we could act as a beacon and give material support to other budding revolutions

It is not in the usual behavior of capitalist states to lend support to workers revolutions...

Nic.

[Ned Kelly]

Obviously not.
We wouldn't be

[Niccolò Rossi]

Obviously not.
We wouldn't be

So what is the use of raising the slogan 'For an Independant Australia'? I'm not sure what you are getting at.

Nic.

[Ned Kelly]

Ridding Australia of foreign capital would be the first step, thus making us independent, but I disagree with their point that we could possibly ally with the Australian bourgeoisie

[Q]

Ridding Australia of foreign capital would be the first step, thus making us independent
For this we need to fight to overthrow the system. Getting rid of imperialist relations within the capitalist frame just doesn't work due to the current development of capital.


but I disagree with their point that we could possibly ally with the Australian bourgeoisie

We agree there! Working class independence is never to be compromised.

[Ned Kelly]

They are the main exploiters in Australian society are foreign interests, once they are overthrown the balance will be tipped right in our favour.

[Q]

They are the main exploiters in Australian society are foreign interests, once they are overthrown the balance will be tipped right in our favour.

You're putting the cart before the horse. Capital is not a national but international system. There is no Australian or American capital. Capitalism has evolved into a global system in which the US happens to be the hegemon. Within the capitalist framework there is no way of escaping this fact of life. Thus we need to overthrow capitalism itself. Any other conclusion, trying to "free" Australia from foreign capital within capitalism, does lead to illusions in the working class movement (reformism at best, blatant nationalism at worst) and, logically, alligning yourself with the Australian national ruling class' interests.

[Ned Kelly]

Until there is a genuine crack at worldwide proletarian revolution, this is the idea I'll continue to support, we can only do what we can at the moment to further the interests of the Australian proletariat. This would involve the overthrowing of both international and local business interests in favour of genuine worker's ownership and the overthrow of the bourgeois parliament in favour of genuine worker's democracy.

[Homo Songun]

Capital is not a national but international system. Capital is not a system, it is a feature of a system (capitalism)


There is no Australian or American capital. False.


Capitalism has evolved into a global system in which the US happens to be the hegemon. Uh... is logic not your strong suite?


Within the capitalist framework there is no way of escaping this fact of life. Thus we need to overthrow capitalism itselfWhile this is true it does not 'prove' something about the CPA-ML's line one way or the other. Its a fact capitalism is global. Its also a fact that today there are colonies, semi-colonies, junior imperialists, and (emerging) super-powers within it. There existence is just a consequence of uneven and combined development, where the major contradictions of our era manifest themselves in different ways. You seem to latching on to the contradiction between labor and capital at the expense of all others. But it is not possible to unravel this single contradiction from the struggle between different advanced capitalist countries. Nor the struggle between those same countries and the exploited nations and nationalities (most people in the world).

Seems to me, that Australia is a junior partner of US imperialism, not a semi-colony that needs liberation from it. (It also seems to me that the idea that places like Australia or Canada are somehow "colonized" by the US are closely associated with the 70's Dengist Three Worlds era.) But, in the final analysis I am not an Australian, and I haven't spent considerable energy analyzing the situation.