The USSR/Soviet Union and the Internet...

[Hexen]

If the Soviet Union was still around today in 2010, I wonder how the Soviet Union would have handled the internet?

[Chimurenga.]

The same as the US does.

[Blackscare]

The same as the US does.


I hope not. I'd like to think that a massive socialist (or pseudo-socialist) country could find something less trivial to do with the most mind-blowing communication network humanity has ever known, than use twitter.

I don't know, perhaps they could use it to totally update and streamline centrally planned economics? Something similar, but larger scale and more advanced than, Cybersyn perhaps?

[revolution inaction]

probably like china does now

[Aesop]

probably like china does now

Probably not. In contrary to popular believe the Soviet union was not actually any more totalitarian than the US, so can't see why usage internet would have been radically different to the US.

[ArrowLance]

The soviet union used the internet, they even have their own .su

[Bright Banana Beard]

Instead of blocking leftist and radical ideas, they gonna block capitalist and reactionary ideas. And they will also promote international proletarian revolution and make revisionist easier to get caught.

[StoneFrog]

Internet Warrior Unions.
HACKERS UNITE against the capitalist pigs!

yup doubt much would be different.

[Chimurenga.]

I hope not. I'd like to think that a massive socialist (or pseudo-socialist) country could find something less trivial to do with the most mind-blowing communication network humanity has ever known, than use twitter.

Oh. I didn't mean like that but good point.

[Red Commissar]

Who knows. It's anyone's guess but I imagine if it was the Soviet Union as it was in the 1980s it probably would have not been too different what its contemporaries would have done. At best it would have at least guaranteed every citizen access to the internet.

There was the framework being put in place. The Soviet Union registered .su domains, which still haven't been shut down due to continued registrations, even after a price hike to discourage it.

For example

http://www.msmoscow.su/

[Psy]

Who knows. It's anyone's guess but I imagine if it was the Soviet Union as it was in the 1980s it probably would have not been too different what its contemporaries would have done. At best it would have at least guaranteed every citizen access to the internet.

http://www.msmoscow.su/
I'm not too sure about that, there probably would have been a larger priority to use the Internet to help plan and run the economy since it was talked about in the late 1960's.

[28350]

The USSR when?

[DenisDenis]

I think the internet would be ideal for the population to decide on important
political/economical issues, it can be used to make democracy truly democratic
by letting anyone who wants(even those who live in very remote and small villages)
vote on issues via internet, the only problem would be hackers ofcourse ...

[NecroCommie]

I think there would be socialist porn where the proletariat is exploited of their clothing, after which they enter wage-sex-slavery and then proceed to unchain themselves through orgasmic revolution. As a result the means of orgasm having would be owned collectively.

...OR they could use it for central planning, both sound good.

[bricolage]

I think the internet would be ideal for the population to decide on important
political/economical issues, it can be used to make democracy truly democratic
by letting anyone who wants(even those who live in very remote and small villages)
vote on issues via internet, the only problem would be hackers ofcourse ...

I think there is a problem with using the internet for deciding on important issues. If you are solely talking about voting, ie. selecting an option, then yes it could easily work however this seems to remove those placing the votes from the decision making process and simply hands them a choice to pick between. As opposed to have been an active part of that leading up to the vote they are just being treated in the same way elections function now.

Yet if we say they should be a part of the decision making process I think it is problematic to do this online. Aside from the fact that it becomes harder to engage people when abstracted from direct contact, hidden behind a computer screen it is often the place that characteristics such as racism, sexism, elitism, arrogance etc manifest themselves most strongly. David Graeber writes a whole section in his book 'Direct Action' about how email lists quickly become dominated by men and groups of people that can normally engage in amicable conversation end up just posting attacking messages to each other.

Beyond this there is also the philosophical considerations of continuing the detachment of individual from individual and alienation from each other by reducing engagement to an electronic form.

In this way I don't think the internet can ever be a substitute for (and even if it could it would not be desirable) genuine human interaction.

[DenisDenis]

I think there would be socialist porn where the proletariat is exploited of their clothing, after which they enter wage-sex-slavery and then proceed to unchain themselves through orgasmic revolution. As a result the means of orgasm having would be owned collectively.

...OR they could use it for central planning, both sound good.

:bored:

...central planning sounds.. nice...


I think there is a problem with using the internet for deciding on important issues. If you are solely talking about voting, ie. selecting an option, then yes it could easily work however this seems to remove those placing the votes from the decision making process and simply hands them a choice to pick between. As opposed to have been an active part of that leading up to the vote they are just being treated in the same way elections function now.

Yet if we say they should be a part of the decision making process I think it is problematic to do this online. Aside from the fact that it becomes harder to engage people when abstracted from direct contact, hidden behind a computer screen it is often the place that characteristics such as racism, sexism, elitism, arrogance etc manifest themselves most strongly. David Graeber writes a whole section in his book 'Direct Action' about how email lists quickly become dominated by men and groups of people that can normally engage in amicable conversation end up just posting attacking messages to each other.

Beyond this there is also the philosophical considerations of continuing the detachment of individual from individual and alienation from each other by reducing engagement to an electronic form.

In this way I don't think the internet can ever be a substitute for (and even if it could it would not be desirable) genuine human interaction.

I'm never in favor of just choosing an option, as in the end it would just be
"in favor/ not in favor" without any real suggestions of what should change.
I think your right about the alienation from eachother. But perhaps it could
then be used to reach out to people who would otherwise be left out, I'm
thinking about handicaps, elderly, people who are abroad for any reason, ...

[Red Commissar]

I'm not too sure about that, there probably would have been a larger priority to use the Internet to help plan and run the economy since it was talked about in the late 1960's.

I meant in regards to security and observation by the state, I am sorry I didn't specify that. I was going off what posters before me were discussing.

Of course the internet would be very useful in the process of the management of the Soviet Economy. It would have significantly cut down delays and allowed for quicker action. I suspect it may've helped and cut down the bureaucracy too.

[Tablo]

I think it would be handled the same way as the Chinese. Not to say the USSR was more authoritarian than the US, I just think they could much more easily justify internet censorship and more easily get away with it than countries like the US.

[Psy]

I think it would be handled the same way as the Chinese. Not to say the USSR was more authoritarian than the US, I just think they could much more easily justify internet censorship and more easily get away with it than countries like the US.
I think the USSR would not bother getting Internet into homes and instead give bandwidth priority to military, government, industry and science. I don't think Gosplan would see the point of people using the Internet for entertainment as even highly developed nations are suffering with heavy low priority Internet use.

[Proletarian Ultra]

I'm not too sure about that, there probably would have been a larger priority to use the Internet to help plan and run the economy since it was talked about in the late 1960's.

This is one of the reasons the Soviets were slow on uptaking computer technology. (Cybernetics was considered a 'bourgeois science' at various periods of the USSR). It was feared that computers would take over for political control by apparatchiks.

BTW: In former East Bloc countries, commieblock apartment housing has proved much easier to wire for internet than cappie-style housing.

[Manifesto]

Pirating probably wouldn't be illegal.

[Bright Banana Beard]

USSR is a heaven ground for piracy.

[What Would Durruti Do?]

Instead of blocking leftist and radical ideas, they gonna block capitalist and reactionary ideas. And they will also promote international proletarian revolution and make revisionist easier to get caught.

He said 2010, not 1923.

So it would be the exact opposite. Blocking leftist and radical ideas while promoting neoliberal agendas.

[stella2010]

It would become a massive LAN behind the IRON CURTAIN.

Espionage would become massive business. The Soviet Union would be on top of intelligence if loyalties remained.

Human resourcing would also become more refined for the Soviet Union, people power
from behind the curtain would then have no other alternative but to expand culturally, militarily, like a balloon blows up.

[AK]

Probably not. In contrary to popular believe the Soviet union was not actually any more totalitarian than the US, so can't see why usage internet would have been radically different to the US.
Totalitarian is a meaningless buzzword. Either that, or every single state is totalitarian. Take Wiktionary's definition:


A system of government in which the people have virtually no authority and the state wields absolute control, for example, a dictatorship.

Doesn't that sound like pretty much every single state to you?

[Sperm-Doll Setsuna]

This is one of the reasons the Soviets were slow on uptaking computer technology. (Cybernetics was considered a 'bourgeois science' at various periods of the USSR). It was feared that computers would take over for political control by apparatchiks.


Apart from this, it was also the issue of infighting between various branches and organisations within the Soviet Union that developed independent and separate small-scale networks instead of a unified system, which made the system that existed by the fall fragmented.

[Aesop]

Totalitarian is a meaningless buzzword. Either that, or every single state is totalitarian. Take Wiktionary's definition:


A system of government in which the people have virtually no authority and the state wields absolute control, for example, a dictatorship.

Doesn't that sound like pretty much every single state to you?

What?

That was my point, hence why i said that it was no more than the USA.

[InuyashaKnight]

If i could i would register a .su anyday.

[Vladimir Innit Lenin]

Can't imagine the internet would have been that great.

Due to copyright laws, nobody in any country, whether it be the US, UK, Pakistan or China, has as free access to the internet as they should.

The only restrictions that should apply on the internet should be those relating to personal security - i.e. banking, password encryption (forgive me if that's not quite the correct term, i'm not a computaphobe, but you get what I mean) and so on.

I don't really think that a free internet is one where any ideas - even if they are Capitalist and reactionary - are forbidden. It's a slippery slope, as one can see in China with Tianaman Square not being searchable on the internet, for example.

[Taikand]

BTW: In former East Bloc countries, commieblock apartment housing has proved much easier to wire for internet than cappie-style housing.
http://www.newstoday.ro/files/furt_de_cablu_in_arad_au_lasat_un_cartier_intreg_f ara_internet_si_telefon.jpg
Any person in my city that has between 15 to 25 years has access to internet.
:thumbup1:
Too bad they use it for Hi5, Facebook and other such resource wasting activities.